Since starting TRT I cant run for Shit

**jasondd1** · 04-23-2013, 09:34 AM

Any correlation?

**steroid.com 1** · 04-23-2013, 10:20 AM

Nope.

Any other note worthy symptoms?

**Ryanmcd** · 04-23-2013, 10:52 AM

Originally Posted by gdevine

Nope.

Any other note worthy symptoms?

Could be too high of a dose, I know when I was doing 500 a week just trying it I felt like shit and winded all the time. I do best at 100-120, Also could be E2.

**XstabberX** · 04-23-2013, 11:27 AM

Ate you winded or are your legs getting pumped and cramping? My lower legs start pumping and screaming at me at 3min walking on the treadmill. I'm on my first cycle but using dbol also so I'm guessing that's what's causing mine. If I would have just run a test only cycle I would know for sure :-(

**jasondd1** · 04-23-2013, 11:41 AM

Originally Posted by gdevine

Nope.

Any other note worthy symptoms?

Ive been really tired last 3-4 days. I just started week 4 of test cyp 75 mg twice a week.

**schon** · 04-23-2013, 11:47 AM

I was having very similar sounding issues last week. My heart would race and I would get a bit out of breath at anything approaching endurance exercise. Coincidentally my prescribed anastrozole came in the mail and after taking .25ed for 3 days everything cleared right up.

**jasondd1** · 04-23-2013, 11:51 AM

Originally Posted by schon

I was having very similar sounding issues last week. My heart would race and I would get a bit out of breath at anything approaching endurance exercise. Coincidentally my prescribed anastrozole came in the mail and after taking .25ed for 3 days everything cleared right up.

Maybe but my e2 is usually super low like 11. I doubt my e2 raised that much in 3 weeks?

**schon** · 04-23-2013, 01:30 PM

Did you start trt 3 weeks ago, or were you on it previously?

I ask, because coincidentally I pinned first on april 2 I believe, so that puts me right in that 3 week ballpark.

**jasondd1** · 04-23-2013, 01:36 PM

Originally Posted by schon

Did you start trt 3 weeks ago, or were you on it previously?

I ask, because coincidentally I pinned first on april 2 I believe, so that puts me right in that 3 week ballpark.

Compounding cream prior but it didn't raise me enough.

**GeriatricOne** · 04-23-2013, 11:07 PM

From my experience, yes, there is a correlation between TRT and endurance. TRT increases the volume of red blood cells. A little increase is beneficial; more oxygen transport. As the volume of red blood cells increases it starts to make the blood flow a bit sluggish when the heart rate increases.

I do CrossFit 5 days a week. When I first started TRT I noticed endurance was slightly increased. As I continued TRT and my dose increased, red blood cell volume increased further and endurance decreased. I give blood every 60 days to control the volume. After donation my endurance improves for about 4-5 weeks, then decreases again as the RBC level reaches upper limits. Blood gets sluggish. Improves again after blood donation.

I am watching the threads about SubQ injection experiences with a mind to try a lesser dose 2-3 times weekly (instead of 150IU IM weekly) hoping it will have less impact on RBC volume.

**Faster** · 04-23-2013, 11:11 PM

Were you running fine before you started TRT. What was your 3 mile run time?

**ZenFitness** · 04-24-2013, 07:30 AM

FWIW I've been on TRT for almost a year doing HIIT training before and during. I don't notice much of a difference if any at all. The only difference is I am stronger now in cardio/strength exercises (burpees, jump squats, etc.). Same on the weight training end of things - little bit stronger.

**GeriatricOne** · 04-24-2013, 10:15 AM

In CrossFit we rarely run for one long distance. We do multiple exercises combined into one 8-20 minute workout at maximum intensity. For example, yesterday was 3 rounds against the clock of 15 deadlifts at 225#, 30 double unders, 600-meter row. Today is 5 rounds in least time of 400-meter sprint and 7 thrusters at 135#

In my case, when my dose started getting over 120mg weekly and my red blood cell volume began to encrouch on the upper limit, I started feeling tired faster. I manage the oxygen deprivation better when my RBC volume is decreased.

On the other side of the coin... my strength increased markedly since starting TRT!

**jasondd1** · 04-24-2013, 12:27 PM

Originally Posted by Faster

Were you running fine before you started TRT. What was your 3 mile run time?

If this was directed at me yes I ran much better before. 26-27 minute 3.1 mile. Now not sure I can even run 3 miles.

**phaedo** · 04-24-2013, 02:33 PM

I'm a runner, and since starting TRT, my endurance has definitely improved. My splits are almost a 1:30 faster! Have you checked your RBC, as mentioned above? Do you have any fatigue during the day - tiredness in general?

**jasondd1** · 04-24-2013, 07:51 PM

Originally Posted by phaedo

I'm a runner, and since starting TRT, my endurance has definitely improved. My splits are almost a 1:30 faster! Have you checked your RBC, as mentioned above? Do you have any fatigue during the day - tiredness in general?

Yeah way tired during the day the last week. Im on t3 for thyroid as well. And Ive been cutting for summer and carbs are low, maybe too low. But I put on 5 pounds in 3 weeks and Im still below maintenance and i know its not all muscle.

**jasondd1** · 04-24-2013, 10:09 PM

Ive got crazy hot and cold flashes as well.

**phaedo** · 04-25-2013, 02:14 AM

Are you being treated (doctor's care) with T3 for hypothyroidism? Do you have labs? Are you taking T4 in addition to your current medication? And how much T3 are you taking per day?

Labs are pertinent for any type of accurate diagnosis to your symptoms... for all we can tell, your diet could be complete garbage and as a result, you're fatigued, irritable, lethargic, weak, etc. In other words, your symptoms could have nothing to do with TRT and more with your lifestyle.

Oh also, what's your TRT dosages/medications?

**jasondd1** · 04-25-2013, 12:11 PM

t3 was low RT3 was super high and T4 was normal. Also thyroid antibodies were normal. Diet is spot on, this aint my first rodeo. My temp has risen from averaging 96.5 to 98 in the 4 weeks since I started both trt and t3. Started at 10 mcg per day and worked my way up to 60+. I backed it back down to around 40-50 mcg today and feel better. Also test cyp 75 mg twice a week and 250 iu hcg 3 times a week. No t4 supplementing just t3. BTW my temp has always been low, and m guessing that mght be causing the hot flashes, but none today since i lowered dose.

**phaedo** · 04-25-2013, 01:51 PM

Are you under the care of an endocrinologist? What was your TSH? Was T3 and T4 measured both "free" and "total"?

Given than your T4 is "normal" and T3 is "low," you have a severe conversion issue or enzyme deficiency. This, largely, could be attributed to stress, interactions with other medications, or even plain faulty genetics. Only about 1 out of 16 people with hypothyroid suffer from T4 *and* T3 imbalances.

You're also taking a very high dose of T3 for thyroid replacement. Have you had any labs run taking 60+ mcg dosages and now 40-50 mcg? When you say "40-50"... a range of 10 mcg is huge difference in T3 thyroid medication...

**SEOINAGE** · 04-25-2013, 03:41 PM

Donating blood makes me feel much better, although I don't notice it as much anymore, i generally feel good if I keep up on it. It was the first time I donated that there was the biggest difference, but I had been on trt for a while. But for a good month notice an increase to endurance.

**jasondd1** · 04-25-2013, 03:44 PM

I'm 3+weeks in so no labs yet. Regular doctor. T3 is bought through site sponsor so hard to judge becaue it is liquid. My doc was pretty lax with any dosage guidelines. I will pull it back to around 40.

Originally Posted by phaedo

Are you under the care of an endocrinologist? What was your TSH? Was T3 and T4 measured both "free" and "total"?

Given than your T4 is "normal" and T3 is "low," you have a severe conversion issue or enzyme deficiency. This, largely, could be attributed to stress, interactions with other medications, or even plain faulty genetics. Only about 1 out of 16 people with hypothyroid suffer from T4 *and* T3 imbalances.

You're also taking a very high dose of T3 for thyroid replacement. Have you had any labs run taking 60+ mcg dosages and now 40-50 mcg? When you say "40-50"... a range of 10 mcg is huge difference in T3 thyroid medication...

**phaedo** · 04-26-2013, 03:41 AM

Well ... *sigh* ... if I was in your shoes, I could drop the T3 completely; wait 6 weeks; check levels; and be properly monitored and medicated by a competent doctor. Self-medicating and guess working the symptoms based on arbitrary levels won't get you far.

And 40 mcg is still a ridiculously high dose for thyroid replacement, especially with "normal" T4 levels...

**jasondd1** · 04-26-2013, 09:32 AM

Originally Posted by phaedo

Well ... *sigh* ... if I was in your shoes, I could drop the T3 completely; wait 6 weeks; check levels; and be properly monitored and medicated by a competent doctor. Self-medicating and guess working the symptoms based on arbitrary levels won't get you far.

And 40 mcg is still a ridiculously high dose for thyroid replacement, especially with "normal" T4 levels...

Yeah only Im not self medicating, I have doctors script and guidance, and 40 mcg is right about the norm for t3. I only buy from research site because it is much cheaper than the script i got from the pharmacist. And what does normal t4 levels have to do with it if I'm converting it all to rt3 and not t3?

**dreadnok89** · 04-26-2013, 10:42 AM

Im the opposite. Im trucking 2 strait miles in 22 mins

**jasondd1** · 04-26-2013, 10:49 AM

Im hoping my problem may be coincidence. Pollen count has been high and maybe that has something to do with it.

**jasondd1** · 05-06-2013, 07:54 PM

Well sadly i think i figured it out. Carbs were too low. Increased carbs from my ridiculously low amount and boom great run. Yeah I feel stupid.

**Joseph956** · 05-07-2013, 08:46 AM

Are there any alternatives to donating blood? Reason being: for religious reasons I can't donate blood.. but after running my RBC levels and if they're high I'd like to be able to remedy it,

I'm having labs run tomorrow so maybe I should just wait and ask my Dr.. but any heads-up would help

Originally Posted by SEOINAGE

Donating blood makes me feel much better, although I don't notice it as much anymore, i generally feel good if I keep up on it. It was the first time I donated that there was the biggest difference, but I had been on trt for a while. But for a good month notice an increase to endurance.

**GeriatricOne** · 05-07-2013, 02:35 PM

Originally Posted by Joseph956

Are there any alternatives to donating blood? Reason being: for religious reasons I can't donate blood.. but after running my RBC levels and if they're high I'd like to be able to remedy it,

You can't GIVE blood, or you can't RECEIVE blood? Big difference. View it as a therapeutic draw for your TRT. You could bleed yourself like KelKel does.