Frustrated with results with hrt so far

[TMan96]

Just venting here a little bit and maybe I had unrealistic expectations about what TRT would do for me, but I can't say I have been sold on the results so for given the effort and Money I have put into it so far.

As far as my background I am 46 years old, 5'6 165lbs about 12.5% bf. I started on my journey because I felt like I had been losing my edge at work for years, becoming more introverted, lack of energy, lack of focus and a more and more constant mental fog. I was losing interest in all most everything. This included my sex drive. I had thought for years my symptoms might be low T, but that was guess. Despite these systems, I still worked out on a regular basis (3 to 4x a week with weights). This is something I have done very consistently since I was about 15 (although I haven't really seen any gains since I was a teenager). I have always enjoyed lifting despite my lack of gains and reasoned that it was good for me. I have to say there have been some benefits because when I went to a 25 year High School reunion back in 2010 I looked a lot younger and fitter than anyone else there. This is not to say I wasn't frustrated with the fact I could never gain muscle size or even weight. What do they say about insanity... its doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results... well that's me. I have been within 8-10 pounds of when I graduated from high school this whole time. I hate to think of all the time I have wasted at the gym, but again, I like the way I feel.

I remember being tested when I was about 40 from the Family Practice guy I was going to because I forced the issue with him. Test came back in range (don't know what they really were, because I don't know to ask then). So I went with that and kept trying to cope.

Finally about Aug. of 2011 I went to a new guy that I had got a referral to from a local compounding pharmacy (a good way to get a good referral by the way). He was about a 60 year old family practice doc, but about 40% of his practice is male and female HRT. He is an ex-power lifter and really enjoys that side of his practice. He is very familiar with the protocols on this board and actually is on the protocol himself. We hit it off and I have been going to him ever since. He started me off slow, with AndroGel , then moved to compounded T - Cream and now Test Cyp. He wanted to work me up slow, but said we would probably end up with injections. I have been on the injections since May 2012.

Everything was looking good as far as my numbers including my E2 and Testosterone . My Testosterone was even at the top of the range and Free was over the top. This was at 200MG of Test Cypo a week. (Keep in mind I didn't really gain any muscle, strength or increased libido here).

Doc didn't want me at these high levels long because of rising H&H and RBC, so he asked me to drop back to 120Mg a week, but for convince and flexibility left my perception the same. This puts me at a total test of between 750 and 850 pretty constantly.

Still Frustrated with physical results, I decided to do a Blast starting in February. The idea was to do 400mg a week, up the AI to keep E2 under control (when I measured it at week 6 it was 38 ) and hopefully grow. Positive Results: None, no weight gain, no gain in strength (actually lost some toward the end), no change in Libido. Negative Results: Hematocrit, Hemoglobin, and Red Blood Cells went above range.. Hemat went to 18.8 and Hemo was at 52.5%. Blood pressure shot up. With these dangerous sides and not noticeable positives I decided to end it at week 8 and get everything back within range.

Diet wise I have tried different macro/Micro combinations with no noticeable difference. I can eat 3k cals a day for 8 weeks with very strict 40/30/30 breakdown recording everything I but in my mouth or I can just eat whatever I feel like whenever I get hungry and still not see any difference as far as gains.

SO, where I am at now is I still want to see some results but don't know what to do. Should I just admit that in the genetic lottery I came up a loser? Then just try to stop obsessing?

From my doc's standpoint, as far as he is concerned, he has done his job and everything is in a nice range. Don't know what else he can do for me.

I have never had an absolute full Hormone Panel run, so I have ordered once from PrivateLabs and will get that drawn tomorrow. That's going to run me about $350, but I guess to rule out ANYTHING else I don't know about it will probably be worth it. I will post those results in a separate thread when I get them next week.

As far as why I was originally low T, I do have an undescended testicle, but I still performed well enough to have to health kids without any trouble back in my 20s. I have always been hairier than average and could grow a nice beard in a week if I wanted. Look like a guy from Duck Dynasty in about a month...lol.

Current protocol is as follows:

Cypionate - 120mg a week once a week (have tried splitting it for a while but couldn't tell any real difference so went back to one for convince)
Anastrozole - .75mg a week.
HCG - (250iu 2 times a week)
Armour Thyroid - 60mg daily (I am actually trying to take 5 weeks off from this to see if I really need it.... I haven't felt any different without it... will see how BW turns out)
Vitamin D3 ,000iu
Zocor 5mg - (have been on this for about a year and half... have been tapering it down and been going 5 weeks without it too... will see how BW turns out)
Donate Blood every 3 months.



Any input to my saga welcomed!

[spywizard]

really?? the last time I could eat anything i want was 25 yrs old... i'm 52.. you never really state what your goals are, or expectations...

are you consuming 300 g of protein per day?? working out 4x week?? your macros might be fine to maintain, or lose fat, but to build muscle fibers there are many things that are needed, one of them being cholesterol, estrogen, and yes, IGF and GH..

did you think you were going to blow up to a 220 lb monster and go on stage??

by the way, after week 6 on 500mg test my libido drops off prolactin issues dhea as well... so elevated test does not guarantee higtened libido..

so lets talk more about what your real goals are, especially on a trt type dosing..

I know energy like you were 24. don't we all want that.. but what are you expecting to be happy??

by the way 5'9" 212 16%bf.. .at 202 i'm 10%bf...

[TMan96]

really?? the last time I could eat anything i want was 25 yrs old... i'm 52.. you never really state what your goals are, or expectations...

are you consuming 300 g of protein per day?? working out 4x week?? your macros might be fine to maintain, or lose fat, but to build muscle fibers there are many things that are needed, one of them being cholesterol, estrogen, and yes, IGF and GH..

did you think you were going to blow up to a 220 lb monster and go on stage??

by the way, after week 6 on 500mg test my libido drops off prolactin issues dhea as well... so elevated test does not guarantee higtened libido..

so lets talk more about what your real goals are, especially on a trt type dosing..

I know energy like you were 24. don't we all want that.. but what are you expecting to be happy??

by the way 5'9" 212 16%bf.. .at 202 i'm 10%bf...

Hey spy wizard,
No I never expected to balloon up to 220 pounds and be on stage, but I didn't think I would be at the same place that I started over a year ago either. I would really just be happy with some muscle gains and showing a difference in my body composition. If I could just gain10 pounds I would feel like at least I was doing something.

So to state the specific goal, i would say gaining 10 pounds of muscle. And having a little higher level of energy.

As far as working out, I am working out with weights four times a week with Low reps and heavy weights. I have cut out all cardio as well. As far as proteins, I'm consuming about 250 g right now. When I had my IGF done about two months ago, it was at the top of the range. As i mentioned earlier I'm getting more bloodwork done with the complete panel tomorrow and will post those results for review.

[Rusty11]

I'm 51 and understand what you're saying. Before getting on trt, my level was mid 200's. I continued to make gains, but was skinnyfat. I didn't even know my T was so low. Anyway, got on trt with hcg , level was >1400. No great gains during that period. Bf lost, though. So, now my T levels hover in the 800s. My point is that higher T levels doesn't always equate to muscle gain. I am making some real gains lately because I am spending time in the nutrition and lifting section. Diet and proper training are THE most important aspects for gaining muscle. Maybe it's time to shake things up in those two areas.

[ZenFitness]

Dumb question but when you are working out, what does that look like? Heavy, compound with back squats, etc.?

[TMan96]

Dumb question but when you are working out, what does that look like? Heavy, compound with back squats, etc.?

As far as weights, I am lifting 4x a week split as follows:
Mon: Back/Bis
Wend: Shoulders
Friday: Chest/tris
Sat or Sun: Legs/calfs

I have totally cut out cardio for a while to see if that makes a difference.
As far as Legs (this the same strategy I am using the other days on the other bodyparts):
Doing as much weight as I can and get 8-10 reps on the sets that are work sets:
Deadlifts (2 sets)
Free Weight Squats (3 sets)
Leg Press (3 sets)
Playa squats (2 sets)
Calfs on leg press machine (2 sets)
Standing calfs (3 sets)
Donkey squat machine (2 sets)

[powerlifterty16]

I'm 51 and understand what you're saying. Before getting on trt, my level was mid 200's. I continued to make gains, but was skinnyfat. I didn't even know my T was so low. Anyway, got on trt with hcg, level was >1400. No great gains during that period. Bf lost, though. So, now my T levels hover in the 800s. My point is that higher T levels doesn't always equate to muscle gain. I am making some real gains lately because I am spending time in the nutrition and lifting section. Diet and proper training are THE most important aspects for gaining muscle. Maybe it's time to shake things up in those two areas.

come on dude let's be realistic here, you are telling me that you went from 200 to over 1400 and saw no bigger gains than you previously saw? That makes absolutely 0 sense, as many peer reviewed studies have shown that anabolic steroids help people gain muscle even if they dont train...and since you do train and raised your test by over 7 times, i dont beleive it.

[Rusty11]

Lol...why would I lie. But, I did this bw 2 weeks after starting hcg . I immediately dropoed my t dose. So, for all I know, it was probably only at that level for a very short time, like days. What I did feel was anxiousness and sleeplessness. And maybe an expert will chime in to confirm that higher t level doesn't automatically equal greater gains.

Edit: just reread my initial post. I didn't mean to imply that there was no difference from the time I started trt to now. I meant that I noticed same gains all along the way, but no quicker gains when t level went up considerably higher than where it is now-800s.

[kelkel]

Hi Tman.

Spy is on target with his line of thought, as expected. From what I've read your HRT is pretty dialed in. Still think you should consider the twice per week protocol in effort to lower your adex or possibly eliminate it totally. That's the main goal with it is less injected = less spike in E = less adex needed. It's a win-win.

When it comes to muscular gains you seriously need to examine your nutrition and training. Soooo many people think they train hard enough and eat well enough but they really do not, on both fronts. And especially with nutrition as if you don't eat enough you won't really make progress no matter what you take. Gaining muscle takes time and a precise nutrient intake aimed toward your goals. It's not easy for most people to eat this much or maintain the level of discipline necessary to make gains. It's a tough sport!

Tman think about your goals. Visit the nutrition forum and look at the bulking stickies and have the guru's there examine your diet. Then maybe visit the lounge and read "Marcus's Diary" from start to finish for some great training methodologies that will help you.

Short term goal and achieve them. Don't let your age hold you back.

kel

[BallSak]

When it comes to muscular gains you seriously need to examine your nutrition and training. Soooo many people think they train hard enough and eat well enough but they really do not, on both fronts. And especially with nutrition as if you don't eat enough you won't really make progress no matter what you take. Gaining muscle takes time and a precise nutrient intake aimed toward your goals. It's not easy for most people to eat this much or maintain the level of discipline necessary to make gains. It's a tough sport!

kel

VERY well said!

Tman if your hormones are dialed in and you still can't gain muscle then EAT! Learn to hold down a puke and make the blender your best friend!

[TMan96]

Thanks for your thoughts. Let me know if any one else has any thoughts. Thanks kelkel for that thread. I'll check it out. I'll post my full bw panel next week.