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  1. #1
    Fireguy40 is offline Junior Member
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    why does it say normal? estrogen.

    why does it say normal? estrogen.-screenshot_2013-06-08-15-55-19.png

    This was the results I just got back. No it wasn't a sensitive essay but my doc says I am fine. Please advise.

  2. #2
    Fireguy40 is offline Junior Member
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    By the way...I have Liquidex from sponsor, and have been taking .25 mg 2 times a week. Would you recomend I increase it at all? My protocal is 100mg test cyp a week, and my test was at 639 ...5 days after my last injection. I am just concerned about estrogen. Thanks guys.

  3. #3
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    accordiing to that range under 200 is good lol.

  4. #4
    100%'s Avatar
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    Total Estrogens is not a valid assay for adult males.

  5. #5
    Fireguy40 is offline Junior Member
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    Would you guys recommend that I increase my Liquidex a little. Like I said I am taking .25mgs two times a week. Should I increase it to .50 mgs two times a week? Are you telling me that the ranges that are listed from Quest Diagnostics are incorrect? Very confusing stuff...

  6. #6
    100%'s Avatar
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    No you are shooting blind you need a sensitive assay. Read the following by John Crisler, DO
    ESTRADIOL

    There are several reasons why this assay is VERY important, and should not be ignored in ANY hypogonadism work-up (or subsequent regimen). First, you definitely need to draw a baseline. There are cases where T is adequate, yet E elevated or merely disproportionate. Elevated estrogen (in absolute value or proportion) can, in and of itself, explain hypogonadal symptomology. If E is elevated, controlling serum concentrations (usually with an aromatase inhibitor, which prevents conversion of T into E; or withdrawal of estrogen mimics such as soy or flax seed) may, in very rare cases, suffice in clearing the symptoms of hypogonadism. And finally, rechecking estradiol after beginning the initial dose of testosterone will give the astute physician valuable information as to how the patient’s individual hormonal system functions, as well as making sure estrogen does not elevate inappropriately secondary to testosterone supplementation. This provides a very rough form of receptor mapping, if you will.
    E2 is the major player of interest in foundational TRT. Evaluation of the other members of the hormonal class “estrogen” (E1, E3, as well as other estrogen metabolites), via 24 hour urine panel, may help explain gynocomastia or water retention in the face of acceptable E2, indicate relative cancer risk, etc.

    Unless you specify a ‘sensitive’ assay for your male patients, the lab will default to the standard estradiol designed for females, which is useless for our purposes here. I have run the standard assay and the sensitive assay concurrently on a number of my patients, and the two results may be as night and day. However, patient symptomology is best described by the sensitive assay. The reason is the bell curve from which the test is designed sits well within the “normal” range for females; therefore the hormonal concentration range appropriate to adult males falls on a very flat slope of said bell curve. The same holds for Total Estrogens. Laboratory testing is best when small changes in concentrations result in large changes in subsequent reported result.

    Some practitioners believe it is only the T/E ratio which is significant, and therefore, as long as E only “appropriately” rises with elevations in T, all is well. However, the absolute concentration of E is of concern, too, especially in light of new information pointing to elevated estrogen as cause, or adjunctively encouraging, several serious disease processes, including numerous cancers, as well as significant potential for induction of sexual dysfunction (no matter the accompanying androgen load). Therefore T/E ratio is only useful for describing the cause of symptoms, not as a treatment goal.

    Estrogen is absolutely necessary for our physical health. Of note, same also provides the emotional component of a mature gentleman’s sexual being. This is why estrogens must be evaluated and, when necessary, controlled. The “sweet spot” E concentration depends upon SHBG. Rule of thumb is mid-range for both.

  7. #7
    imom is offline Banned
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    My understanding was that the standard test was sufficiently accurate for females with higher levels of E2, but any arithmetic error would become more significant when testing lower concentrations. If your E2 is high for a male then it is within the normal female range, and the test is probably sufficient. If your E2 is low by male standards, then the standard test might have a significant margin of error and you might benefit from the sensitive test. I read this on a lab website - I can try to find this link if anyone's interested.

  8. #8
    100%'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by imom View Post
    My understanding was that the standard test was sufficiently accurate for females with higher levels of E2, but any arithmetic error would become more significant when testing lower concentrations. If your E2 is high for a male then it is within the normal female range, and the test is probably sufficient. If your E2 is low by male standards, then the standard test might have a significant margin of error and you might benefit from the sensitive test. I read this on a lab website - I can try to find this link if anyone's interested.
    This is not a E2 test it is total Estrogen test.

  9. #9
    FRDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by imom
    My understanding was that the standard test was sufficiently accurate for females with higher levels of E2, but any arithmetic error would become more significant when testing lower concentrations. If your E2 is high for a male then it is within the normal female range, and the test is probably sufficient. If your E2 is low by male standards, then the standard test might have a significant margin of error and you might benefit from the sensitive test. I read this on a lab website - I can try to find this link if anyone's interested.
    According to life extensions web site, the standard E2 test is ok for males as the sensitive essay is only more accurate in the lower portion for those whom have low E2.

    The above test I don't not believe is correct and probably total estrogen like mentioned by others.

  10. #10
    Trific's Avatar
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    Your total estrogen test says you are in range for a male, it didn't seem to give a separate scores for just E2....maybe could guess it's fine too but it would be good to get an E2 only test.

    I'd consider 10mg or so more test per week if it was me.

    I wouldn't increase the liquidex at this time.

  11. #11
    Fireguy40 is offline Junior Member
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    Just curious why tou would say to increase the test a little but? Is being in mid 600 5 days after injection not an ideal place to be? I myself was very pleased with these test results as I didnt think that I would have been there 5 days after injection. Does this also mean that for the beginning if the week, that I would be in the 800 range?.

  12. #12
    w8liftr is offline Junior Member
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    Your blood may be good for 5 - 7 days after draw, so could ask your doc to order sensitive e test on same blood.

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