Latest BW-130mg Testosterone Cypionate

**bigdippin** · 07-22-2013, 01:35 PM

On 120mg of test, my Total T was 428 and my estradiol was over 100. Now on 130mg of test, my Total T is 419 and estradiol is at 27.7 I have been taking arimidex 1.5mg per week for the last 6 weeks. Total T has dropped a tad but estradiol number looks good. I'm not happy that my Total T is still low but I started with a 79 so I'm making improvements. Dr. now has me taking 150mg per week starting with todays shot. Just looking for the pros feedback on how everything looks.

Thanks

**100%** · 07-22-2013, 01:58 PM

Black out name on bottom.

**powerlifterty16** · 07-22-2013, 02:00 PM

title says 130 but post says 120? anyway, im glad your doctor moved your dose up, 419 is a pretty lame level. It doesnt say testosterone was ordered, did you get it separately? Why no free t?

btw David, your name is still on the bottom not blurred out

**bigdippin** · 07-22-2013, 02:02 PM

Thx, taking it down until I can fix it. I wanted to let you know that my TT levels have dropped since moving up to 130 from 120.

**100%** · 07-22-2013, 02:04 PM

People with low shbg tent to do better injecting more often and sub for a slower release. Have you have you blood sugar tested?

**kelkel** · 07-22-2013, 02:13 PM

When was your Blood pulled relative to your injection? If your E came back high and then you added adex, your T should rise, not drop. Post up full BW when possible please.

**bass** · 07-22-2013, 02:16 PM

I can't see any BW attachment at the moment . speaking of SHBG he could be binding, but needs to run a test ti find out, if you are binding and showing high SHBG then you can supplement with vitamin D and yes as 100% noted more frequent administration will help lower SHBG.

OP, are you on hCG ?

**bigdippin** · 07-22-2013, 02:16 PM

Blood was drawn before test injection. 7 days after previous injection. Now that I will be self injecting, I will inject every 3.5 days. I'm going to go with Sub Q injections and see how I like those along with adding in HCG . My current Dr. doesn't believe in HCG so I wasn't taking that.

**bigdippin** · 07-22-2013, 02:17 PM

Originally Posted by 100%

People with low shbg tent to do better injecting more often and sub for a slower release. Have you have you blood sugar tested?

Had blood sugar tested when I first went in for low T symptoms. It was high, but I didn't fast the night before as I was never told to.

**bigdippin** · 07-22-2013, 02:19 PM

Reposted the BW. Had to black out some more info. Sorry. Also, I pay out of pocket as my company doesn't offer insurance for everything and this is the only BW my current place would do. Total Testosterone numbers were on another paper so the Dr just wrote it down for me.

**kelkel** · 07-22-2013, 02:20 PM

Originally Posted by bigdippin

Blood was drawn before test injection. 7 days after previous injection. Now that I will be self injecting, I will inject every 3.5 days. I'm going to go with Sub Q injections and see how I like those along with adding in HCG. My current Dr. doesn't believe in HCG so I wasn't taking that.

Ok. Print out Crislers paper on HCG and the sticky here on them. Educate your doctor. A little push may help him see the light. Ask him what he would do if his nuts were shrinking and an LH analogue was readily available to him?

**bass** · 07-22-2013, 02:20 PM

now that I see your BW your SHBG is in the tank! mine is the same way so I stopped supplementing with vit. D to help a little. hCG will definitely help with your test levels. BTW, that's not a sensitive assay, so you really don't know where you sit with your E2.

**100%** · 07-22-2013, 02:22 PM

The (TAAAA)n polymorphism of th... [Exp Clin Endocrinol Diabetes. 2011] - PubMed - NCBI

**bigdippin** · 07-22-2013, 02:22 PM

Originally Posted by kelkel

Ok. Print out Crislers paper on HCG and the sticky here on them. Educate your doctor. A little push may help him see the light. Ask him what he would do if his nuts were shrinking and an LH analogue was readily available to him?

Thanks. My Dr is on TRT himself, and he says the clinic doesn't do it. They have had 3 dr's there since I started with them and I asked them all. No dice. So I found another place to go. Self injections and I finally get to use HCG . I'm excited to start.

**bigdippin** · 07-22-2013, 02:26 PM

Originally Posted by bass

now that I see your BW your SHBG is in the tank! mine is the same way so I stopped supplementing with vit. D to help a little. hCG will definitely help with your test levels. BTW, that's not a sensitive assay, so you really don't know where you sit with your E2.

True about the sensitive assay. I've read alot on this site that says there isn't much of a difference when the number isn't really low. Is that correct? I was never taking vit D. Actually I don't take any supplements currently except fish oil. Have Jarrow Formulas Methyl B-12, 60 Lozenges 5000mcg on the way along with Now MSM powder to help with joint pain. Looking forward to starting the HCG .

**bigdippin** · 07-22-2013, 02:27 PM

Originally Posted by 100%

The (TAAAA)n polymorphism of th... [Exp Clin Endocrinol Diabetes. 2011] - PubMed - NCBI

Thank you for the information. My next blood work that I'll be paying for out of pocket after I start self injecting will be in 6 weeks. I'll be sure to have my blood sugar tested as well.

**100%** · 07-22-2013, 02:33 PM

Having low SHBG low total testosterone while injecting 120 mg and converting to estrogen very rapidly. All signs of a metabolic issue.

**powerlifterty16** · 07-22-2013, 02:49 PM

Originally Posted by bigdippin

True about the sensitive assay. I've read alot on this site that says there isn't much of a difference when the number isn't really low. Is that correct? I was never taking vit D. Actually I don't take any supplements currently except fish oil. Have Jarrow Formulas Methyl B-12, 60 Lozenges 5000mcg on the way along with Now MSM powder to help with joint pain. Looking forward to starting the HCG.

the jarrow lozensges are awesome. my b12 levels are so high they are undetectable..the b12 lozensges completely redesigned my metabolism. slowed it down a lot which for me was good. i could never get over 160 until i took them and now eating the same im 200-205.

**bigdippin** · 07-22-2013, 03:02 PM

Originally Posted by powerlifterty16

the jarrow lozensges are awesome. my b12 levels are so high they are undetectable..the b12 lozensges completely redesigned my metabolism. slowed it down a lot which for me was good. i could never get over 160 until i took them and now eating the same im 200-205.

I'm overweight, but have lost almost 50 pounds since starting TRT. Still have along way to go, but am making progress. Feeling better and losing weight.

**bass** · 07-22-2013, 03:53 PM

Originally Posted by bigdippin

True about the sensitive assay. I've read alot on this site that says there isn't much of a difference when the number isn't really low. Is that correct? I was never taking vit D. Actually I don't take any supplements currently except fish oil. Have Jarrow Formulas Methyl B-12, 60 Lozenges 5000mcg on the way along with Now MSM powder to help with joint pain. Looking forward to starting the HCG.

I did a side by side comparison for E2 total serum and e2 sensitive, and the numbers cam back almost the same, but another member did the same comparison and his numbers were way off. so to play it safe its best to do the sensitive assay.

**FONZY007** · 07-22-2013, 04:28 PM

Originally Posted by bigdippin

On 120mg of test, my Total T was 428 and my estradiol was over 100. Now on 130mg of test, my Total T is 419 and estradiol is at 27.7 I have been taking arimidex 1.5mg per week for the last 6 weeks. Total T has dropped a tad but estradiol number looks good. I'm not happy that my Total T is still low but I started with a 79 so I'm making improvements. Dr. now has me taking 150mg per week starting with todays shot. Just looking for the pros feedback on how everything looks.

Thanks

Your like me I'm taking 160mg (80mg twice a
Week) of test a week with 1mg of Adex a week test and E2 numbers are where yours are at..

**kelkel** · 07-22-2013, 05:13 PM

Originally Posted by 100%

Having low SHBG low total testosterone while injecting 120 mg and converting to estrogen very rapidly. All signs of a metabolic issue.

Possible signs. Not definitive signs. The study posted is the first I've heard shbg being related which is actually quite interesting. Converting to estrogen can easily be a body fat issue and then you have to get into waist circumference and all that crap. Other indicators are BP, Triglycerides, sugars and low HDL's so a lot comes into play here. My point to the op is don't run away from this thread thinking you have MS just yet.

Op, I really don't think your TT reading 7 days post injection is all "that" low. Considering where you're peak may have been. I'm by no means saying you feel good there as that's up to the individual. Some may feel great there, others don't. Dose adjustment and AI control may simply be all you need. Don't necessarily get hung up on numbers. They are a guide, not the end all and be all. With your shbg being low I'm sure your FT is probably quite good. Getting dialed in takes time. Keep losing weight and I'm sure you'll feel great soon. Remember, few of us enter into TRT with only one problem.

100% you know I think differently when it comes to low shbg and injection protocols as we've had that discussion!. But it's still probably good for the op to experiment and see what works best for him based on future BW.

Originally Posted by bigdippin

Thank you for the information. My next blood work that I'll be paying for out of pocket after I start self injecting will be in 6 weeks. I'll be sure to have my blood sugar tested as well.

Try to use a private lab and save yourself some money!

**100%** · 07-22-2013, 06:06 PM

Kel agree everyone should experiment with there dose and frequency weather shbg is high or low. Here are some of the studies I have found this is why if someone says they have high blood sugar and low SHBG. I feel it should be investigated further P.S. you started me on this obsession!
http://pmr.cuni.cz/Data/files/Prague...06_Duskova.pdf
Resistance training increases SHBG in overweight/obese, young men

Johns Hopkins Guides: Serum levels of sex hormone-binding globulin (SHBG) are not associated with lower levels of non-SHBG-bound testosterone in male newborns and healthy adult men.
Do You Know Your Sex Hormone Status? â€“ Life Extension

**100%** · 07-22-2013, 06:52 PM

So here is the big question? Should we ever try and lower SHBG to make more free T available. The consensus with top doctors now is no use what ever mean necessary dose frequency method of application to raise total T and let SHBG along with it.
Sex Hormone-Binding Globulin and Insulin-Like Growth Factor-Binding Protein-1 as Indicators of Metabolic Syndrome, Cardiovascular Risk, and Mortality in Elderly Men

**bigdippin** · 07-22-2013, 07:47 PM

Originally Posted by bass

I did a side by side comparison for E2 total serum and e2 sensitive, and the numbers cam back almost the same, but another member did the same comparison and his numbers were way off. so to play it safe its best to do the sensitive assay.

Thank you. Next blood work I will request the sensitive assay.

**bigdippin** · 07-22-2013, 07:53 PM

Originally Posted by kelkel

Possible signs. Not definitive signs. The study posted is the first I've heard shbg being related which is actually quite interesting. Converting to estrogen can easily be a body fat issue and then you have to get into waist circumference and all that crap. Other indicators are BP, Triglycerides, sugars and low HDL's so a lot comes into play here. My point to the op is don't run away from this thread thinking you have MS just yet.

Op, I really don't think your TT reading 7 days post injection is all "that" low. Considering where you're peak may have been. I'm by no means saying you feel good there as that's up to the individual. Some may feel great there, others don't. Dose adjustment and AI control may simply be all you need. Don't necessarily get hung up on numbers. They are a guide, not the end all and be all. With your shbg being low I'm sure your FT is probably quite good. Getting dialed in takes time. Keep losing weight and I'm sure you'll feel great soon. Remember, few of us enter into TRT with only one problem.

100% you know I think differently when it comes to low shbg and injection protocols as we've had that discussion!. But it's still probably good for the op to experiment and see what works best for him based on future BW.

Try to use a private lab and save yourself some money!

I appreciate all the information I'm getting from this forum. I'm relatively new to TRT so everyday is a learning experience. I've read so many threads from members who have contributed so much to newbies like me.

I will definately be using a private lab on my next blood work. The clinic covered the cost of the previous so I just went with it. Thank you Kelkel.

**kelkel** · 07-22-2013, 07:54 PM

Originally Posted by 100%

Kel agree everyone should experiment with there dose and frequency weather shbg is high or low. Here are some of the studies I have found this is why if someone says they have high blood sugar and low SHBG. I feel it should be investigated further P.S. you started me on this obsession!
http://pmr.cuni.cz/Data/files/Prague...06_Duskova.pdf
Resistance training increases SHBG in overweight/obese, young men

Johns Hopkins Guides: Serum levels of sex hormone-binding globulin (SHBG) are not associated with lower levels of non-SHBG-bound testosterone in male newborns and healthy adult men.
Do You Know Your Sex Hormone Status? â€“ Life Extension

And I'm glad I did. Med journals are a way of life these days. Your contributions here are well thought out 100% and help the membership greatly. I've been fascinated by shbg for some time now and fine it way more interesting than testosterone , imho.

**kelkel** · 07-22-2013, 08:00 PM

Originally Posted by 100%

So here is the big question? Should we ever try and lower SHBG to make more free T available. The consensus with top doctors now is no use what ever mean necessary dose frequency method of application to raise total T and let SHBG along with it.
Sex Hormone-Binding Globulin and Insulin-Like Growth Factor-Binding Protein-1 as Indicators of Metabolic Syndrome, Cardiovascular Risk, and Mortality in Elderly Men

Some good stuff. I've seen all but the Prague study in your other post. Main thing to take from this banter between 100 and I is to do what works for you. Experiment if you must and find what works. Occams Razor? The simple solution may be the most effective!

Remember the quickest way to reduce shbg is to elevate your test. But that may not be the best means to an end in all scenarios.

**100%** · 07-22-2013, 08:29 PM

Originally Posted by kelkel

And I'm glad I did. Med journals are a way of life these days. Your contributions here are well thought out 100% and help the membership greatly. I've been fascinated by shbg for some time now and fine it way more interesting than testosterone, imho.

Thank you. Happy to give back to this forum that has also helped me greatly. Studies are a great sources of information but like you said individual results are what really important. Very rarely even in controlled studies do 100% of participants react the same way.