got bloodwork back 6 weeks of hcg

**powerlifterty16** · 07-29-2013, 11:44 AM

so as you guys know i did 6 weeks of hccg starting on june 5th and ending on july 15th. i waited a week and a half and got bloodwork done last wednesday the 24th. my lh went up but my testosterone went down. my free t plummeted. i'm 23 in case you guys forgot..never did roids, never drank, never smoke(ya im a loser lol) been working out for almost a decade.

now its time to get my boxing gloves out and demand treatment from the urologist who implied trt at my age is not the answer.

blood work below

LH 6.8 (1.7-8.6)
estradiol 14.2(7.6-42.6)
free testosterone 6.7(9.3-26.5)
total t 256(348-1197)
prolactin 6.1(4.0-15.2)

my cholesterol levels werent too great either, but i eat a pretty fatty diet for lifting...and had a triple cheeseburger from wendys the day before the test lol

Test Low Normal High Reference Range Units
hdl cholesterol 49 >39 mg/dL
triglycerides 87 0-114 mg/dL
vldl cholesterol cal 17 5-40 mg/dL
ldl cholesterol calc 155 0-119 mg/dL
cholesterol, total 221 100-189 mg/dL

**bass** · 07-29-2013, 12:00 PM

have you dine an MRI to rule in/out pituitary problems? definitely need to find out what's causing low T levels at your age before even considering TRT, let that be your goal fist.

**powerlifterty16** · 07-29-2013, 12:03 PM

ive been at this for 5 years done about 7 mris seen about 20 endos, at this point im ready for trt and tired of this life.lh was fine also, so doubt it's pituitary..i am probably primary. I think ive had low t all my life. i was always skinny as a kid, and i used to be scared of people throwing basketballs at me or baseballs. i used to run away when people threw it at me....even now im tall and strong, and get nervous at confrontation with people much older, fatter, and weaker than i am.

**bass** · 07-29-2013, 12:07 PM

obviously your testis are not working. now go find a doctor that knows what he doing and get treated.

**FRDave** · 07-29-2013, 01:02 PM

Sorry to hear man, was hoping the HCG would help you out. No certified A4M Dr's in your area or did they all turn you down due to age?

**powerlifterty16** · 07-29-2013, 01:08 PM

Originally Posted by FRDave

Sorry to hear man, was hoping the HCG would help you out. No certified A4M Dr's in your area or did they all turn you down due to age?

it's just i dont know what route to go now. i really want to find someone in insurance, but i dont think that will happen. I would go to an a4m md if i knew it would not cost 2400 a year. I dont mind paying 300-600 once, and then maybe seeing the dr twice per yr or something. it is just expensive with no insurance, and right now i dont work...so my dad would be paying for it. Im hoping the trt gets me in a position where my confidence and focus are better and i can start graduate school, but it's a risk if it doesnt work.
dave how ahs your cholesterol changed on trt?

**FRDave** · 07-29-2013, 01:27 PM

Originally Posted by powerlifterty16

it's just i dont know what route to go now. i really want to find someone in insurance, but i dont think that will happen. I would go to an a4m md if i knew it would not cost 2400 a year. I dont mind paying 300-600 once, and then maybe seeing the dr twice per yr or something. it is just expensive with no insurance, and right now i dont work...so my dad would be paying for it. Im hoping the trt gets me in a position where my confidence and focus are better and i can start graduate school, but it's a risk if it doesnt work.
dave how ahs your cholesterol changed on trt?

I pay out of pocket and only have to see Dr. twice a year at $100 ea visit, so my protocol is relatively cheap. Search around and make some calls, I'm sure you can find someone that won't charge an arm and a leg.

My cholesterol levels have remained about the same with both my HDL and LDL slightly dropping, nothing note worthy.

**bass** · 07-29-2013, 01:32 PM

I found my doc on google! also youtube maybe useful

**powerlifterty16** · 07-29-2013, 02:38 PM

i called *body****logic**md** and the woman was a complete beetch to me and hung up on me..said she was too busy to talk to me. i promise i was polite! I think she was mad i was asking questions...just give me your money and shut up -_-

im kind of happy my t isnt high, i didnt eel much relief on hcg , and was worried test wasnt my issue, or even if test wasnt my issue higher t want helping. I do think my t was a little higher on hcg, bc i noticed gains like never before in the gym, but i ALWAYS make better gains in the may-august area. it;s literally like im on steroids in those months, while the winter im shutdown(even though ive enev used steroids and im always shutdown with my crappy low t hahah)

**jasondd1** · 07-29-2013, 03:08 PM

I would give clomid at 25mg eod a chance before trt. Chances are it wont help but if it does it's a hell of a lot easier to manage than trt.

**powerlifterty16** · 07-29-2013, 06:01 PM

not interested in clomid, and my lh is 6.8...so it wont help. I am ready for trt. sub q with a 30g needle once or twice every week would be very manageable..problem is finding a competent doctor.

**powerlifterty16** · 07-29-2013, 09:10 PM

Originally Posted by FRDave

I pay out of pocket and only have to see Dr. twice a year at $100 ea visit, so my protocol is relatively cheap. Search around and make some calls, I'm sure you can find someone that won't charge an arm and a leg.

My cholesterol levels have remained about the same with both my HDL and LDL slightly dropping, nothing note worthy.

dave where are you located..and is 100 dollars a special deal they are giving you? i may need to travel out there..im feeling depressed thinking about the 5 years i wasted and the hopelessness of never finding a dr.

**Vettester** · 07-29-2013, 09:46 PM

Like you noted, your LH is not low. If anything, it's in the upper range. The concern I see is that you have low serum, but that isn't supported with low LH. Low LH and low serum usually means 'secondary'. High LH and low serum usually indicates 'primary' hypo, resulting failure in the leydigs/testicles. Since you stated you didn't really notice much with the HCG , then to me it's leaning in the direction of primary.

If the HCG was successful, then your endogenous serum production would have increased (mine went >1,000ng on a HCG solo protocol a few years ago, but that's another story ...), which in turn would/should have suppressed LH production via the negative feedback loop process. To me, the logic says that the exogenous LH (HCG) didn't work, your test never increased, thus your HPTA has been signaling for some testicular feedback and not getting any (feedback would be increased serum).

You said you had another set of labs in the back pocket, so wait a few weeks and run them again. What I'm suggesting is just theory and speculation, so what you really need to do is align yourself with a good physician (A4M possibly) who can really get down to the root of this for you. If it is primary, then you obviously want to know why, and rule out any issues/pathologies.

**powerlifterty16** · 07-29-2013, 10:53 PM

Originally Posted by Vettester

Like you noted, your LH is not low. If anything, it's in the upper range. The concern I see is that you have low serum, but that isn't supported with low LH. Low LH and low serum usually means 'secondary'. High LH and low serum usually indicates 'primary' hypo, resulting failure in the leydigs/testicles. Since you stated you didn't really notice much with the HCG , then to me it's leaning in the direction of primary.

If the HCG was successful, then your endogenous serum production would have increased (mine went >1,000ng on a HCG solo protocol a few years ago, but that's another story ...), which in turn would/should have suppressed LH production via the negative feedback loop process. To me, the logic says that the exogenous LH (HCG) didn't work, your test never increased, thus your HPTA has been signaling for some testicular feedback and not getting any (feedback would be increased serum).

You said you had another set of labs in the back pocket, so wait a few weeks and run them again. What I'm suggesting is just theory and speculation, so what you really need to do is align yourself with a good physician (A4M possibly) who can really get down to the root of this for you. If it is primary, then you obviously want to know why, and rule out any issues/pathologies.

yeah it's all confusing man..i noticed strength gains on the hcg that i never had training in 10 years..i know it wasnt placebo bc i know my body..but other than that i noticed no changes. Like you said, ill run labs again probably in the middle of august. at this point idc what is causing the low t, im ready for trt, ive been at this for 5 years trying to figure my issues out, and noone knows. I have nothing to lose giving the trt a try. I dont mind being on it for life if i could find an affordable route and it helps. I doubt any pathologies i have are seirous as ive had low t all my life, or at minimum since iwas 19(when it was 277). Ive had pituitary mris since 2009 as well, had about 5 of them total maybe 7 and only one showed a probable 2mm incedentoloma and that was the one from 2009, but the rest including one this year were clear. I had a testicular ultrasound back in march that showed borderline bilateral minor varicoceles, but anabolicdoc read my report and said since bloodflow was fine he doesnt think it's my problem, and the urologist claims he didnt see them...so meh.
I think i have pretty decent sized balls, so idk why im not producing test...but there's only so much testing i could do...it's time for trt....im ready.

i really hope i dont have klinefelters.....that would SUCKKKKK but i dont look like a klinefelters guy, and my e2 is always low...don't people with klines have high e2?

it's weird bc my lab results have always changed. When my tt was 277 at 19, my lh was around 4.6, and i even had a tt of 535 at 21 but lh was 2.0. free t has gone i nth tank however.

**powerlifterty16** · 07-29-2013, 11:08 PM

according to this link if you have subnormal or normal lh and fsh you are still secondary..and primary hypo usually results in more e2...
Causes of primary hypogonadism in males

**powerlifterty16** · 07-30-2013, 11:45 AM

i think it's safe to say that idont aromataze too much test which is a good thing.

**powerlifterty16** · 07-30-2013, 11:46 AM

e2 barely rose.lol

**powerlifterty16** · 07-30-2013, 11:12 PM

have my endo appt this week

**VTX1800** · 07-31-2013, 07:32 AM

Why don't you go get a job? You can then find a knowledgable a4m dr and not have to worry about spooning from your Dad. But I guess if you got it like that and don't need to work then you can be that guy, living in your parents basement at age 35 still playing the same 3 chords to smoke on the water.

**powerlifterty16** · 07-31-2013, 10:15 AM

Originally Posted by powerlifterty16

dave where are you located..and is 100 dollars a special deal they are giving you? i may need to travel out there..im feeling depressed thinking about the 5 years i wasted and the hopelessness of never finding a dr.

gee dave i thought you wanted to help but no reply?vtx, there are reasons im not working now, none of which are your business, im not going to entertain your personal attacks!

**powerlifterty16** · 07-31-2013, 10:18 AM

Originally Posted by powerlifterty16

dave where are you located..and is 100 dollars a special deal they are giving you? i may need to travel out there..im feeling depressed thinking about the 5 years i wasted and the hopelessness of never finding a dr.

just wanted to add, i have some money saved up, but it's not enough to pay for something like lowt.com...i could afford a situation like frdave has but he refuses to help. something like low t i cant afford.

**powerlifterty16** · 08-04-2013, 06:42 PM

ok so i have about 3 scripts for bloodwork....i was thinking of going on august 9th...would that be too soon since i just got bloodwork on the 24th of july? I also quit taking vitamin d a week before bloodtests...my thinking os that vitamin d raises my t alot(it has been proven in my bw)..and i feelthe results are more accurate without it...should i keep taking the d?

**Ccdiesel** · 08-05-2013, 07:14 PM

Originally Posted by FRDave

I pay out of pocket and only have to see Dr. twice a year at $100 ea visit, so my protocol is relatively cheap. Search around and make some calls, I'm sure you can find someone that won't charge an arm and a leg.

My cholesterol levels have remained about the same with both my HDL and LDL slightly dropping, nothing note worthy.

I am also curious if you are willing to share what doctor or clinic you are using. Not many options where I'm at.

**powerlifterty16** · 08-05-2013, 07:45 PM

Originally Posted by Ccdiesel

I am also curious if you are willing to share what doctor or clinic you are using. Not many options where I'm at.

he pmed me, id suggest pming him, he uses a dr in california

**dreadnok89** · 08-05-2013, 09:03 PM

Originally Posted by jasondd1

I would give clomid at 25mg eod a chance before trt. Chances are it wont help but if it does it's a hell of a lot easier to manage than trt.

How do you figure its easier? Chlomid raises your estrogen alot

**JohnGalt** · 08-06-2013, 09:35 PM

Originally Posted by powerlifterty16

ok so i have about 3 scripts for bloodwork....i was thinking of going on august 9th...would that be too soon since i just got bloodwork on the 24th of july? I also quit taking vitamin d a week before bloodtests...my thinking os that vitamin d raises my t alot(it has been proven in my bw)..and i feelthe results are more accurate without it...should i keep taking the d?

Ummm .... From this thread I see an obvious answer to that question. You claim during the summer months you feel your t is higher and like you "are on steroids ". Here you claim you have results that shows when you increase your D you increase your test.

Vitamin D commonly drops during summer months due to a lack of sunshine.

From all your posts I really get the impression you have NO desire to raise your T levels to feel well. You are only looking for a way to get a script for steroids and test because you care more about hitting the gym than you do about your health.

Which, hey it's your body but please don't scam the healthcare system on my dime aka Medicare/Medicare and ask me to not be upset by it.

TRT/HRT is a new not widely accepted treatment for conditions that a large part of the medical community doesn't even know about yet which means no matter what it's not cheap. Most recommend that TRT shouldn't be considered for those under 25 first and foremost because their endocrine system is not fully developed I would love to add that most at that age cannot fiscally support the treatment or themselves regardless.

**powerlifterty16** · 08-06-2013, 09:44 PM

Originally Posted by JohnGalt

Ummm .... From this thread I see an obvious answer to that question. You claim during the summer months you feel your t is higher and like you "are on steroids ". Here you claim you have results that shows when you increase your D you increase your test.

Vitamin D commonly drops during summer months due to a lack of sunshine.

From all your posts I really get the impression you have NO desire to raise your T levels to feel well. You are only looking for a way to get a script for steroids and test because you care more about hitting the gym than you do about your health.

Which, hey it's your body but please don't scam the healthcare system on my dime aka Medicare/Medicare and ask me to not be upset by it.

TRT/HRT is a new not widely accepted treatment for conditions that a large part of the medical community doesn't even know about yet which means no matter what it's not cheap. Most recommend that TRT shouldn't be considered for those under 25 first and foremost because their endocrine system is not fully developed I would love to add that most at that age cannot fiscally support the treatment or themselves regardless.

i wont argue with you because maybe i give off that impression, but i actually am against that..i even made a thread about how i hate when people go on trt for steroid cycles. lifting weights is ONE of the reasons i want trt, but only because i want to get the gains everyone else is getting, the gains i should be getting. i have been a natural low t lifter for 10 years man, and i feel steroids over normal range is cheating...and ill never do a blast. even with low t i have made great gains, but it's only because i never gave up when i had years of losing strength due to my body not keeping up.

i want t because i lack assertiveness, am timid, anxious, the weightlifting, brain fog, headaches, fatigue, libido is ok, but it could be better, concentration.

ive been talking myself out of t for years.. i was offered t at 19. i want it mostly for motivation...im just so unmotivated and dead...and im hoping it will give me the drive to be productive in life.

im also not scamming anyone on medicaid, and im hoping when i get my t corrected i can come off and succeed in graduate school and become a psychologist which is what i got my undergraduate degree in. Im on medicaid because of the symptoms i go through everyday, and i dont ow you an explanation for it, and nothing im doing is illegal insurance wise so i will continue using my insurance that i am fortunate to have.

and john dont tell me it's not reccomended you dont have to live one day in my shoes and unlike you i never used roids...and i bet my t level is lower than yours. there is no magic age for hypogonadism buddy.

also the summer months have MORE sunshine where the hell do you live pal pluto? I never said i had more test just that my lifting goes better.

**zillagod** · 08-06-2013, 09:54 PM

....

**JohnGalt** · 08-06-2013, 10:00 PM

"Unlike you I never used roids"

OMG I am going to be laughing at that assumption for like a week man!!!!! Trust me I am one of the physically smallest dudes you'll ever meet and it doesn't bother me in the least. I have started going to the gym since I started TRT but that was because I am an IT person and sit in front of my computers all day and my cholesterol and glucose levels show it. I could care less if I ever get muscular I am looking only to get healthy.

I don't mean accuse you of scamming the system, but you spout out a ton of threads a day and have read your story here A LOT and you come across as only wanting gains. Asking for ways to lower your T levels to qualify or how to get HGH, not taking vit D just to help show HGC didn't work, etc. so yeah I slightly feel you are looking for gains MORE than you care about your health.

Looking at what I will call your mood swings. Every new thread you start comes from a completely different mood and I wonder about you being bipolar. You have an undergrad in psych no offense but I truly hope for your sake you are being counseled. I know your t is low, and I had the same issue through my teens 20s and most of my 30s and dealing with things from a psych perspective first helped me out tremendously with the need for ANY drugs (except caffeine and nicotine for a bit there)

Best of luck and I hope you look for ALL help including counseling while you are looking for proper health hormonaly because if you haven't dealt with any possible psych issues TRT will be not help if not just making everything worse.

And obviously I meant that vitamin D is usually lower in the winter not summer, so I could point out that it seemed obvious to me that supplementing with vitamin D was benefitting you and you should not stop it

**powerlifterty16** · 08-06-2013, 10:08 PM

Originally Posted by JohnGalt

"Unlike you I never used roids"

OMG I am going to be laughing at that assumption for like a week man!!!!! Trust me I am one of the physically smallest dudes you'll ever meet and it doesn't bother me in the least. I have started going to the gym since I started TRT but that was because I am an IT person and sit in front of my computers all day and my cholesterol and glucose levels show it. I could care less if I ever get muscular I am looking only to get healthy.

I don't mean accuse you of scamming the system, but you spout out a ton of threads a day and have read your story here A LOT and you come across as only wanting gains. Asking for ways to lower your T levels to qualify or how to get HGH, not taking vit D just to help show HGC didn't work, etc. so yeah I slightly feel you are looking for gains MORE than you care about your health.

Looking at what I will call your mood swings. Every new thread you start comes from a completely different mood and I wonder about you being bipolar. You have an undergrad in psych no offense but I truly hope for your sake you are being counseled. I know your t is low, and I had the same issue through my teens 20s and most of my 30s and dealing with things from a psych perspective first helped me out tremendously with the need for ANY drugs (except caffeine and nicotine for a bit there)

Best of luck and I hope you look for ALL help including counseling while you are looking for proper health hormonaly because if you haven't dealt with any possible psych issues TRT will be not help if not just making everything worse.

i have told people all over this board that i dont believe ANYONE should be taking hgh..what the heck are you talking about? i wouldnt touch the stuff.

i am not trying to lower my test levels quite the opposite. i actually make sure not to jack off 2 days before the test(even though its not suppsoed to affect t) i make sure to fast 12 hours before, i dont lift the day before, and i try extra hard to eliminate stress and bad sleep.

the vitamin d thing you completely misread. i was saying because d raises my levels a lot, i thought it would give the doctors a false assumption of my levels without it, and so i have not been taking it for one week before my tests. keep in mind my vitamin d even off of d is still in the 70s so im nowhere deficient. i asked that question because i DIDNT want to cheat on my test.

btw the correct term is COULDN'T care less not could...if you could care less that means you do care.

anyone would have mood swings when LIES and accusations are being told about them.

who the hell says the sun doesnt shine in the summer are you insane john???

**powerlifterty16** · 08-06-2013, 10:10 PM

Originally Posted by JohnGalt

"Unlike you I never used roids"

OMG I am going to be laughing at that assumption for like a week man!!!!! Trust me I am one of the physically smallest dudes you'll ever meet and it doesn't bother me in the least. I have started going to the gym since I started TRT but that was because I am an IT person and sit in front of my computers all day and my cholesterol and glucose levels show it. I could care less if I ever get muscular I am looking only to get healthy.

I don't mean accuse you of scamming the system, but you spout out a ton of threads a day and have read your story here A LOT and you come across as only wanting gains. Asking for ways to lower your T levels to qualify or how to get HGH, not taking vit D just to help show HGC didn't work, etc. so yeah I slightly feel you are looking for gains MORE than you care about your health.

Looking at what I will call your mood swings. Every new thread you start comes from a completely different mood and I wonder about you being bipolar. You have an undergrad in psych no offense but I truly hope for your sake you are being counseled. I know your t is low, and I had the same issue through my teens 20s and most of my 30s and dealing with things from a psych perspective first helped me out tremendously with the need for ANY drugs (except caffeine and nicotine for a bit there)

Best of luck and I hope you look for ALL help including counseling while you are looking for proper health hormonaly because if you haven't dealt with any possible psych issues TRT will be not help if not just making everything worse.

And obviously I meant that vitamin D is usually lower in the winter not summer, so I could point out that it seemed obvious to me that supplementing with vitamin D was benefitting you and you should not stop it

btw, i have only been on a medicaid plan for a few months and before that i was on a 2000 per month family plan with 50 dollar copays....i didnt want to be on the medicaid and be unemployed but unfortunately i am until i get my energy up.

**zillagod** · 08-06-2013, 10:15 PM

....

**JohnGalt** · 08-06-2013, 10:23 PM

Apparently I'm confusing you with someone else on the HGH thing, my apologies.

I may just be working off how I remember reading your posts while you were doing the HCG mono-therapy and even starting a few days in you were already determined that TRT was the only thing that would work that gave me the wrong impression. If I'm wrong I am sorry that was just the impression I got.

D in the 70's?? Eff you lol, just kidding of course because let me tell ya I am jealous of that one!!

Blah blah blah I used the wrong phrase typing on an ipad, and besides I originate from the south where either use is correct to us ;-)

Really, I typed the wrong season and no one thought to think that I typed it wrong. It was a kind of obvious mistake and I sure hope you knew what I meant.