Endo wants to lower test 20mg

**jay adams** · 08-05-2013, 10:11 PM

Im hoping my Endo isn't too old fashion. I wish he would agree to my protocol of twice a week injections as apposed to once. I know it'll piss him off if I suggest twice a week with the Hcg the day before and my ai the day after.

Well that's what I've been doing anyhow and these are my results after six weeks

total 856. 348-1197

Free 28. 8.7- 25.1

Estradiol 14. 7.6 -42.1

Now I like these levels but he thinks they're too high and wants me to cut back 20mg less a week. My free is barely high and I feel like its right on. Now I have to start all over and test again in six weeks. WHY?

Are those levels too high? Everything else was in the mid-range "just to let you know".

**phaedo** · 08-06-2013, 06:04 AM

How much AI are you taking? How are you feeling, in general?

I'm a firm believer in the "less-is-more" approach, and eradicating an entire medication on TRT would be favorable. Your E2 appears on the low side and allowing it to creep up could alleviate the free T and normalize your levels.

**jay adams** · 08-06-2013, 10:22 AM

Originally Posted by phaedo

How much AI are you taking? How are you feeling, in general?

I'm a firm believer in the "less-is-more" approach, and eradicating an entire medication on TRT would be favorable. Your E2 appears on the low side and allowing it to creep up could alleviate the free T and normalize your levels.

You know, I have been feeling a little forgetful. I've been taking 0.25 twice a week. We changed that also yesterday to .25 once a week. Do you have any thoughts on the best time to take the .25? My schedule is Mon/hcg Tue/test Wed/Anastrozole then repeat.Sunday off. Should I split the .25?

Thank you for replying.

**phaedo** · 08-06-2013, 12:27 PM

It's better to take less more often; that is, to the point of being reasonable. If you can easily half your dose of 0.25 mg, then I'd equally dose it over the course of the week. At such a low dose though, I won't think it imperative and perhaps I would simply stick with the decent protocol you have now.

**bass** · 08-06-2013, 01:11 PM

your BW is perfect in my opinion, no need to screw with it. cutting back on your AI as Phaedo suggested will bring your free down a little, and i agree E2 might be low, so adjusting AI is what's needed not test dose!

**bass** · 08-06-2013, 01:12 PM

BTW, that's not a sensitive assay E2 test, so its hard to tell exactly where you stand with e2.

**qscgugcsq** · 08-06-2013, 01:20 PM

Originally Posted by bass

your BW is perfect in my opinion, no need to screw with it. cutting back on your AI as Phaedo suggested will bring your free down a little, and i agree E2 might be low, so adjusting AI is what's needed not test dose!

x2..

**jay adams** · 08-06-2013, 02:35 PM

Originally Posted by bass

your BW is perfect in my opinion, no need to screw with it. cutting back on your AI as Phaedo suggested will bring your free down a little, and i agree E2 might be low, so adjusting AI is what's needed not test dose!

I agree this is the best choice. Now how do I propose that to him? I'd hate to tell him I've been taking a 80mg when I've been taking 100mg a week. He'll prob cut me down and I'll run out. He might not agree that cutting back the AI will lower the free T. I'm trying by best not to piss him off.

Originally Posted by bass

BTW, that's not a sensitive assay E2 test, so its hard to tell exactly where you stand with e2.

Thats one thing I haven't had done yet in six weeks we'll get the sensitive test done.

Thanks again.

**bass** · 08-06-2013, 02:57 PM

if he doesn't listen to your body then start looking for another doc.

**jay adams** · 08-06-2013, 04:01 PM

Originally Posted by bass

if he doesn't listen to your body then start looking for another doc.

For sure! I just sent him a logical message explaining what you proposed. Lets see if he's cool with raising the estradiol to the mid 20's then retesting in four weeks. That seems like the best route. Then we could adjust test if free T is still too high for him.

**bass** · 08-06-2013, 04:09 PM

the whole idea of getting on TRT is to feel great, not better or normal. so if you are feeling great then don't change it especially when your BW is near perfect. we'll see what he says!

**Keep_It_Moving** · 08-06-2013, 04:25 PM

Originally Posted by jay adams

For sure! I just sent him a logical message explaining what you proposed. Lets see if he's cool with raising the estradiol to the mid 20's then retesting in four weeks. That seems like the best route. Then we could adjust test if free T is still too high for him.

Jay-

Your numbers look really good man... sorry to hear you're going through a bit of trouble...

**jay adams** · 08-06-2013, 04:34 PM

Thanks bass. I'll keep you posted on what happens.

What's up K.I.M? Yeah, as long as he agrees on trying to raise E first to get the results, we should still be good. I'd rather make minor tweaks to adjust instead of splitting my AI in half AND cutting back 20 mg of test a week.

Lets make love to these adjustments instead of ****ing them violently

**Low Testosterone** · 08-06-2013, 04:44 PM

Stop using endocrinologist. Nine times out of ten, going to an endocrinologist is a guaranteed method for receiving subpar TRT. This is a hard fact for many to accept. We want to believe endocrinologist are the best at this because they are in fact hormone doctors, and when it comes to many hormones they're right on the money, but TRT isn't one of them. Further, because they're officially hormone doctors, most are not willing to accept anything that contradicts what they believe.

**Keep_It_Moving** · 08-06-2013, 08:09 PM

Originally Posted by jay adams

Thanks bass. I'll keep you posted on what happens.

What's up K.I.M? Yeah, as long as he agrees on trying to raise E first to get the results, we should still be good. I'd rather make minor tweaks to adjust instead of splitting my AI in half AND cutting back 20 mg of test a week.

Lets make love to these adjustments instead of ****ing them violently

Let's hope he responds to your message...

**phaedo** · 08-06-2013, 08:44 PM

Originally Posted by Low Testosterone

Stop using endocrinologist. Nine times out of ten, going to an endocrinologist is a guaranteed method for receiving subpar TRT. This is a hard fact for many to accept. We want to believe endocrinologist are the best at this because they are in fact hormone doctors, and when it comes to many hormones they're right on the money, but TRT isn't one of them. Further, because they're officially hormone doctors, most are not willing to accept anything that contradicts what they believe.

So true... unfortunately.

I don't have enough fingers to count how many different endocrinologists I've seen... and none of them got it right. Some closer than others, but as the saying goes, there's only one direction up.

**Metalject** · 08-07-2013, 01:59 AM

Originally Posted by phaedo

So true... unfortunately.

I don't have enough fingers to count how many different endocrinologists I've seen... and none of them got it right. Some closer than others, but as the saying goes, there's only one direction up.

The one thing endos are universally taught in school:

Testosterone is a hormone - anabolic steroids are hormones - anabolic steroids are bad - Testosterone is the primary anabolic steroid - Testosterone is therefore BAD.

**SEOINAGE** · 08-07-2013, 07:22 AM

Going to agree with the others. Blood work looks good, maybe less ai. My doc doesn't mind my free being a little over if I am feeling ok and don't have sides. I don't know how you convince them, other than trying the lower dose. I did this once, and felt awful, he allowed me to bump it right back up without blood work.

**laser** · 08-07-2013, 08:49 AM

Originally Posted by jay adams

For sure! I just sent him a logical message explaining what you proposed. Lets see if he's cool with raising the estradiol to the mid 20's then retesting in four weeks. That seems like the best route. Then we could adjust test if free T is still too high for him.

yeah some doctors hate it when the patient does some research. Even when the patient is right, they sometimes ignore it, and want to be in charge. I just recently found a super great doctor, and got away from the money mill clinic. Now self admin a home. Weekly now instead of every 2 week roller coaster ride. It sure feels more sterile, and I am positive it is.
It is not easy to find a good doctor, I would be thinking ahead.

**jay adams** · 08-07-2013, 10:01 AM

Well I called the gentleman at the advice of LT and he was beyond cool. I asked if we could try to just cut back the AI first and he did some calculations and said "great idea. Lets do that first". Now I'm in my favorite recliner again . Very relaxed!

I think now that I've broke the ice this will be a rewarding relationship. Thanks for the great advice guys. This is my well being in your hands. And thank you low testosterone for the PM's. Great looking out

**dreadnok89** · 08-08-2013, 12:05 AM

Originally Posted by bass

the whole idea of getting on TRT is to feel great, not better or normal. so if you are feeling great then don't change it especially when your BW is near perfect. we'll see what he says!

Not to be dicky, but I really thought it was to feel normal.

**bass** · 08-08-2013, 11:08 AM

Originally Posted by dreadnok89

Not to be dicky, but I really thought it was to feel normal.

no its a good question. my 82 year old dad feels normal for his age! I am 53 and sure as hell don't want to feel like a normal 53 year old, because that's what my doc said to me when I complained about the pains I was having, low energy, and all the rest of low T symptoms, he said I was normal. fvck that, if I am going on TRT then I want to feel great, not normal!

**powerlifterty16** · 08-08-2013, 11:22 AM

Originally Posted by bass

no its a good question. my 82 year old dad feels normal for his age! I am 53 and sure as hell don't want to feel like a normal 53 year old, because that's what my doc said to me when I complained about the pains I was having, low energy, and all the rest of low T symptoms, he said I was normal. fvck that, if I am going on TRT then I want to feel great, not normal!

by ur pics i thought u were younger....but id liket o feel normal or better.

**bass** · 08-08-2013, 11:34 AM

Originally Posted by powerlifterty16

by ur pics i thought u were younger....but id liket o feel normal or better.

check out my photos in my profile, see how I looked before and after TRT. that my friend is what I call Feeling Great!

**jay adams** · 08-08-2013, 12:04 PM

Going by how I feel and now looking at my numbers, Its night and day. I haven't had this burning, longing in my chest for a long, long time. I have a yearning that I had in my early twenties. I couldn't imagine having to go back to where I came from. I guess to me feeling great is feeling like I did in my early twenties. ( Im nearing forty).
Also my physic has reverted back to a slender look I haven't had in over seven/ eight years. I just moved and haven't been working out for a couple weeks. I haven't been eating as good cause I just settled in to the new pad. Im still holding my new physic. Great feeling when the metabolism is pushing strong.