Great Ways to Lose your TRT

**austinite** · 08-27-2013, 10:54 AM

Originally Posted by JD250

Lets be sure and also apply these advised behaviors of respect towards the members here .... a little understanding and respect towards a member who is literally sick will go much further than ruling with a heavy hand. Yes I do understand the "respect" issue along with everything else mentioned here but lets not forget that sometimes people are feeling poorly, broke, hopeless, tired and generally at the end of their ropes and need a place to just blow off steam, not to say that "anything goes" is an acceptable policy just because someone is frustrated, I'm just saying that I've seen MANY people here helped along their journey in the world of TRT by understanding and an encouraging word. On the other hand I do understand that their are a few who go over the top with the bashing........ I just think the benifit of the doubt is where I would rather find myself on this issue....... I've personally been through the "dark days" myself and I am VERY grateful for the vets in this forum who helped me find the way.

low T..... Good post with some interesting responses

JD, I asked, I did not rule anything. I've been there myself as well. I have no intent to prevent anyone from speaking up. And I agree with you wholeheartedly. My point, in it's entirety, is that Name Calling is not educational and gives this section an impression of a "Doctor bashing forum", for most of us, we know that's not the case, but to lurkers and potential new members, it's very discouraging. Whether folks understand or not, it's damaging to the forum. So at the end of the day, it's not in the forum's best interest. There are 1000's of scenarios, and I agree with all of them, but I don't see the benefit of calling a doctor an idiot, after all, we're all here for education.

No one is forced to do as I ask, but I will make the attempt to lead by example and hopefully others will, too. Name calling is poor taste at best, and I don't know how many people would actually disagree that it is not educational.

Hope that clears it up.

**bass** · 08-27-2013, 12:20 PM

Originally Posted by austinite

JD, I asked, I did not rule anything. I've been there myself as well. I have no intent to prevent anyone from speaking up. And I agree with you wholeheartedly. My point, in it's entirety, is that Name Calling is not educational and gives this section an impression of a "Doctor bashing forum", for most of us, we know that's not the case, but to lurkers and potential new members, it's very discouraging. Whether folks understand or not, it's damaging to the forum. So at the end of the day, it's not in the forum's best interest. There are 1000's of scenarios, and I agree with all of them, but I don't see the benefit of calling a doctor an idiot, after all, we're all here for education.

No one is forced to do as I ask, but I will make the attempt to lead by example and hopefully others will, too. Name calling is poor taste at best, and I don't know how many people would actually disagree that it is not educational.

Hope that clears it up.

excellent point Austinite, I too am guilty of calling docs names, maybe justified but still unprofessional on my part, also never thought of the forum's best interest, and you make a great point, it does not serve us well. count me in for no name calling

**kelkel** · 08-27-2013, 12:45 PM

From this point forward all my name calling will be via PM.

Bass is first.

**bass** · 08-27-2013, 03:14 PM

easy now Kel, I haven't crossed over yet!

**2Sox** · 08-27-2013, 03:38 PM

Originally Posted by Kwn

Constructive use of anger... I am not sure I know what that means. My endo said "I dont do HCG ". She controls prescription, all I can do is try and convince her. But insurance companies do not view HCG as necessity for TRT, so she will not do that no matter what. You can be convinsing and constructive all you want the answer is still no. BTW, use of HCG for weight loss is directly prohibited by FDA, google it. So prescribing HCG for that is plain malpractice.

Also she said I will not treat a man with TT=350. Why? Because insurance driven standards of care state that 350 is still normal. You can feel like crap but she will not treat you because the playbook says so.

So, no matter what you say she will use the guidelines, not how you feel. So, how do you stay constructive? What is going on is a result of a combination of (1) doctor dumbness (even specialists are plan incompetent), (2) insurance driven guidelines, which do not care about your quality of life, and (3) $ motivation.

How many men heard from their docs (1) its all in your head, (2) you need to see sex therapist, your problem is not hormones, (3) just have some blue pills. I believe it is way too common, it comes straight from urologists' greatest hits album. TRT doctors stay within physiological boundaries, but at least they treat symptoms. Again, I think what is going on in the mainstream medicine is borderline criminal and extremely un-humane.

Kwn,
Your entire post is a perfect example of how to use your anger in a constructive way. You told of your experience, how you felt about what occurred and the problems as you see them. We learned from it and saw ourselves related to you - a commonality. Is this not constructive?
The more we know, the more empowered we are.

**JD250** · 08-27-2013, 04:03 PM

True words Austinite...... name calling is not productive and should be kept to a minimum, I have seen a few come in here with the strangest and most unhealthy relationships with their docs and spout off and end up with a 5 page doc bashing rant and I've also seen people come here with some harsh words at first and end up finding the help, hope and education they needed to proceed successfully...... the latter is always the result of vets with cooler heads and some understanding, that's why this forum is awesome and I would hope it stays that way for all the newcomers in the future. Good thread!!

**Kwn** · 08-27-2013, 04:03 PM

2Sox, in what way are we empowered? These doctors keep screwing new patients (being paid in the mean time upwards from $300K/year), and all we can do is post on steroid forums.
No changes, mainstream industry is still using 1950's methods, and would not even recognize importance of estrogen management. If I will ever make out of my situation back to normal, I swear, I will make my uro and endo famous, and not in a good way. I think the more informed potential patients are the better for potential patients. Too bad urologist daddy will not bring quite the same check home.

**Ryanmcd** · 08-27-2013, 06:11 PM

Originally Posted by Kwn

2Sox, in what way are we empowered? These doctors keep screwing new patients (being paid in the mean time upwards from $300K/year), and all we can do is post on steroid forums.
No changes, mainstream industry is still using 1950's methods, and would not even recognize importance of estrogen management. If I will ever make out of my situation back to normal, I swear, I will make my uro and endo famous, and not in a good way. I think the more informed potential patients are the better for potential patients. Too bad urologist daddy will not bring quite the same check home.

Go see a real doc then, if you don't have the $$$ too bad, that's life. It took me 3 days to see my doc and 1 month later I was feeling great, did it cost me $$$ you bet, was it worth it? I would say it's the best money I ever spent and I get to enjoy my life now not spending my days play DOC and trying to figure this out, you have 1 life and 1 life only, spending years trying to get this solved to me is asinine when you can call up a top doc and be solved in weeks.

**powerlifterty16** · 08-27-2013, 06:32 PM

Originally Posted by Ryanmcd

Go see a real doc then, if you don't have the $$$ too bad, that's life. It took me 3 days to see my doc and 1 month later I was feeling great, did it cost me $$$ you bet, was it worth it? I would say it's the best money I ever spent and I get to enjoy my life now not spending my days play DOC and trying to figure this out, you have 1 life and 1 life only, spending years trying to get this solved to me is asinine when you can call up a top doc and be solved in weeks.

should tell u something that crisler saw u in 3 days...shippen wont see me for months.

**Rusty11** · 08-27-2013, 06:36 PM

Originally Posted by JD250

Lets be sure and also apply these advised behaviors of respect towards the members here .... a little understanding and respect towards a member who is literally sick will go much further than ruling with a heavy hand. Yes I do understand the "respect" issue along with everything else mentioned here but lets not forget that sometimes people are feeling poorly, broke, hopeless, tired and generally at the end of their ropes and need a place to just blow off steam, not to say that "anything goes" is an acceptable policy just because someone is frustrated, I'm just saying that I've seen MANY people here helped along their journey in the world of TRT by understanding and an encouraging word. On the other hand I do understand that their are a few who go over the top with the bashing........ I just think the benifit of the doubt is where I would rather find myself on this issue....... I've personally been through the "dark days" myself and I am VERY grateful for the vets in this forum who helped me find the way.

low T..... Good post with some interesting responses

Not sure what you are refering to, but I am constantly blown-away by the amount of respect given to people in this section of the forum. Take some of the posts I've read, put them in the AAS Q&A and then see what happens...lol. There is no lack of respect occuring at any level of frequency in the trt section.

**Kwn** · 08-27-2013, 07:20 PM

Originally Posted by Ryanmcd

Go see a real doc then...

You are right, no question about this. But what is the first thing a guy does when it comes to sex problems? Goes to urologist. Plus, uro and endo are in-network. And this is when a guy gets phucked for the first time. Then he goes to endo - because they know about hormones, right? wrong, this is loving # 2, often even harsher than uro. Then he starts go to steroid forums and learn about estrogen, HCG , etc. This is when the guy goes to a respected HRT doctor.

I bet right now as we speak there is a dozen of poor souls looking for the relief in the urologist's office. They will discover pretty soon this is dead end. Exactly for this reason we need NOT be in the quiet respectful denial about it. Someone should get the web site up and running, like 'howtogetHRTright.com', or 'ratemyHRTdoctor.com'. there should be a review section of different doctors, by real patients. Like urologist John Smith, MD. Complete, incompetent jerk, etc. Dr. Eugene Shippen, extremely helpful, qualified, etc. This will allow guys to go straight to a specialist, and save them anger, frustration, and horror. It will also steal business from doctors who have no qualification to deal with men's hormones.

**kelkel** · 08-27-2013, 07:25 PM

Originally Posted by Kwn

2Sox, in what way are we empowered? These doctors keep screwing new patients (being paid in the mean time upwards from $300K/year), and all we can do is post on steroid forums.
No changes, mainstream industry is still using 1950's methods, and would not even recognize importance of estrogen management. If I will ever make out of my situation back to normal, I swear, I will make my uro and endo famous, and not in a good way. I think the more informed potential patients are the better for potential patients. Too bad urologist daddy will not bring quite the same check home.

Above in bold is what empowers you.

**powerlifterty16** · 08-27-2013, 07:27 PM

Originally Posted by Kwn

You are right, no question about this. But what is the first thing a guy does when it comes to sex problems? Goes to urologist. Plus, uro and endo are in-network. And this is when a guy gets phucked for the first time. Then he goes to endo - because they know about hormones, right? wrong, this is loving # 2, often even harsher than uro. Then he starts go to steroid forums and learn about estrogen, HCG , etc. This is when the guy goes to a respected HRT doctor.

I bet right now as we speak there is a dozen of poor souls looking for the relief in the urologist's office. They will discover pretty soon this is dead end. Exactly for this reason we need NOT be in the quiet respectful denial about it. Someone should get the web site up and running, like 'howtogetHRTright.com', or 'ratemyHRTdoctor.com'. there should be a review section of different doctors, by real patients. Like urologist John Smith, MD. Complete, incompetent jerk, etc. Dr. Eugene Shippen, extremely helpful, qualified, etc. This will allow guys to go straight to a specialist, and save them anger, frustration, and horror. It will also steal business from doctors who have no qualification to deal with men's hormones.

or you have guys who are told by the uro/endo that their problems are in their head, and theey develop cognitive disonance and insanity and then go to a shrink and feel even worse..we are the lucky ones who said eff the drs...and are trying to find relief...unfortunately for me i have found 0 relief.

**powerlifterty16** · 08-27-2013, 07:28 PM

Originally Posted by Kwn

You are right, no question about this. But what is the first thing a guy does when it comes to sex problems? Goes to urologist. Plus, uro and endo are in-network. And this is when a guy gets phucked for the first time. Then he goes to endo - because they know about hormones, right? wrong, this is loving # 2, often even harsher than uro. Then he starts go to steroid forums and learn about estrogen, HCG , etc. This is when the guy goes to a respected HRT doctor.

I bet right now as we speak there is a dozen of poor souls looking for the relief in the urologist's office. They will discover pretty soon this is dead end. Exactly for this reason we need NOT be in the quiet respectful denial about it. Someone should get the web site up and running, like 'howtogetHRTright.com', or 'ratemyHRTdoctor.com'. there should be a review section of different doctors, by real patients. Like urologist John Smith, MD. Complete, incompetent jerk, etc. Dr. Eugene Shippen, extremely helpful, qualified, etc. This will allow guys to go straight to a specialist, and save them anger, frustration, and horror. It will also steal business from doctors who have no qualification to deal with men's hormones.

ive been having less energy than ever...so tired lately had to sleep the whole day pretty much

**Ryanmcd** · 08-27-2013, 07:47 PM

Originally Posted by powerlifterty16

should tell u something that crisler saw u in 3 days...shippen wont see me for months.

Money talks, sucks but it's the truth. I bet if you offered him $1k cash he would see you this week, cash 1st insurance last, big cash before everything else lol.

**Kwn** · 08-27-2013, 07:51 PM

I called Shippen's office too, they said booked for next 2 months. No money mentioned. I am ready to pay $1,000 for appointment, nobody asked.

**kelkel** · 08-27-2013, 07:55 PM

Originally Posted by Kwn

I called Shippen's office too, they said booked for next 2 months. No money mentioned. I am ready to pay $1,000 for appointment, nobody asked.

See if they have a cancellation list you can be put on, if you have the flexibility to do so.

**powerlifterty16** · 08-27-2013, 07:57 PM

Originally Posted by Ryanmcd

Money talks, sucks but it's the truth. I bet if you offered him $1k cash he would see you this week, cash 1st insurance last, big cash before everything else lol.

idk...shippen doesnt need my money he is loaded....but they claim he is booked until november, so ill suffer until then

**Ryanmcd** · 08-27-2013, 07:57 PM

Originally Posted by Kwn

I called Shippen's office too, they said booked for next 2 months. No money mentioned. I am ready to pay $1,000 for appointment, nobody asked.

Lots of other people around that can do the same thing as him prob for less in the long run, TRT is not that hard it's just troubleshooting so any good doc that understands it can help. I bet LowTMike can help as good or better then any of the other docs around and I am sure you can see him or someone under him this week.

I think Shippen is booked due to his book and such but that does not = he's the best at it because I feel a lot of docs can solve your any issues if they understand the path to troubleshooting it.

**Kwn** · 08-27-2013, 08:04 PM

Originally Posted by Ryanmcd

... I feel a lot of docs can solve your any issues if they understand the path to troubleshooting it.

I agree. Problem is - how do you know which doctor can troubleshoot hormones, and which will stick 200 mg cyp in you and say 'see ya in 2 weeks'.

**powerlifterty16** · 08-27-2013, 08:26 PM

Originally Posted by Ryanmcd

Lots of other people around that can do the same thing as him prob for less in the long run, TRT is not that hard it's just troubleshooting so any good doc that understands it can help. I bet LowTMike can help as good or better then any of the other docs around and I am sure you can see him or someone under him this week.

I think Shippen is booked due to his book and such but that does not = he's the best at it because I feel a lot of docs can solve your any issues if they understand the path to troubleshooting it.

someone like me NEEDS a doctor like shippen who isnt scared to treat someone my age and who knows what they are doing..besides ive tried so many in network docs, at this point i have no choice. to be honest though, i feel it's a blessing that ididnt get treated by the others bc they would have just made me worse, shippen at least knows what he's doing...plus i will be 24 when i see him so i could say i held out until then instead of 23 lol.

**EverettCD** · 08-27-2013, 08:48 PM

I had to wait about a month & a half to get into my current Dr, but it was worth every second of waiting.

As for how much money he makes off me I really & truly do not care. I pay my $20 copay & he spends as much time as I ask him to with me discussing my condition & protocol options.

My point is, it's worth all the time & money to get with a GOOD Dr. Life is to short to be miserable.

Sent from my iPhone that was manufactured in a sweat shop in China

**powerlifterty16** · 08-27-2013, 08:52 PM

Originally Posted by EverettCD

I had to wait about a month & a half to get into my current Dr, but it was worth every second of waiting.

As for how much money he makes off me I really & truly do not care. I pay my $20 copay & he spends as much time as I ask him to with me discussing my condition & protocol options.

My point is, it's worth all the time & money to get with a GOOD Dr. Life is to short to be miserable.

Sent from my iPhone that was manufactured in a sweat shop in China

no offense but that's easy to say with a 20 dollar copay lol..

**2Sox** · 08-28-2013, 05:42 AM

Originally Posted by powerlifterty16

no offense but that's easy to say with a 20 dollar copay lol..

Of course, a great doctor is worth his/her weight in gold but I'd agree with this statement.

There are many great doctors out there. The trick is to find one that is not a greedy S.O.B.

**Brett N** · 08-28-2013, 06:02 AM

I have to say, I saw my LowT.com doctor on less than a weeks notice. I called him and he just happened to have a slot open and I was willing to make the 6 hour drive with no notice. He was very thorough and explained everything that I had questions about. He also said that he wanted to be "partners" in my treatment and wanted me to know why he was prescribing what he was prescribing. I had a question just recently and he was willing to take my call and talk to me directly. Again, explaining things in laments terms so I could "get it"

This has nothing to do with this site and LowT being related. I felt a connection with the doc and I honestly felt he was concerned with my well being during our meeting and even on the phone. I think everyone should feel that way with their TRT doctor no matter who it is.

Asking if they have a cancellation list or a short notice list would be beneficial to all if the doctor you want to see is booked up solid. People cancel all the time for whatever reason. There may be less cancellations on a physician that is in high demand but i am still willing to bet that he /she does get cancellations.

**Low Testosterone** · 08-28-2013, 08:45 AM

Originally Posted by Brett N

I have to say, I saw my LowT.com doctor on less than a weeks notice. I called him and he just happened to have a slot open and I was willing to make the 6 hour drive with no notice. He was very thorough and explained everything that I had questions about. He also said that he wanted to be "partners" in my treatment and wanted me to know why he was prescribing what he was prescribing. I had a question just recently and he was willing to take my call and talk to me directly. Again, explaining things in laments terms so I could "get it"

This has nothing to do with this site and LowT being related. I felt a connection with the doc and I honestly felt he was concerned with my well being during our meeting and even on the phone. I think everyone should feel that way with their TRT doctor no matter who it is.

Asking if they have a cancellation list or a short notice list would be beneficial to all if the doctor you want to see is booked up solid. People cancel all the time for whatever reason. There may be less cancellations on a physician that is in high demand but i am still willing to bet that he /she does get cancellations.

Glad to hear things went well.

**powerlifterty16** · 08-28-2013, 01:36 PM

Originally Posted by Brett N

I have to say, I saw my LowT.com doctor on less than a weeks notice. I called him and he just happened to have a slot open and I was willing to make the 6 hour drive with no notice. He was very thorough and explained everything that I had questions about. He also said that he wanted to be "partners" in my treatment and wanted me to know why he was prescribing what he was prescribing. I had a question just recently and he was willing to take my call and talk to me directly. Again, explaining things in laments terms so I could "get it"

This has nothing to do with this site and LowT being related. I felt a connection with the doc and I honestly felt he was concerned with my well being during our meeting and even on the phone. I think everyone should feel that way with their TRT doctor no matter who it is.

Asking if they have a cancellation list or a short notice list would be beneficial to all if the doctor you want to see is booked up solid. People cancel all the time for whatever reason. There may be less cancellations on a physician that is in high demand but i am still willing to bet that he /she does get cancellations.

from what i know of low t, im pretty sure they get you in quickly as part of their agreements. Shippens office told me something about him not taking new patients anymore to catch up on his old patients and that's why it was until November...but perhaps she was just being nice lol. I kind of like the idea of going after i turn 24 anyway....

**Low Testosterone** · 08-28-2013, 02:50 PM

Originally Posted by powerlifterty16

from what i know of low t, im pretty sure they get you in quickly as part of their agreements. Shippens office told me something about him not taking new patients anymore to catch up on his old patients and that's why it was until November...but perhaps she was just being nice lol. I kind of like the idea of going after i turn 24 anyway....

How fast you can get into one of our locations depends on the location. Some are busier than others. As of right now, there shouldn't be anymore than a 2wk wait at any location, some locations you can get in within the week. Of course, this can always change. More patients, the doctor goes on vacation, etc.