Crashed E2, please help. Blood work attached

**LFH40** · 01-30-2014, 06:39 PM

I decided to start an independent thread for this question. I have been on TRT since mid Oct. My 6 week bw revealed high E2. Doc put me on an AI. (Anastrozole)

I had miscommunication and was double dosing my hcg unbeknownst to me. This perhaps caused my e2 to go up. So I corrected my dose and in the month I have been on the AI, I've gotten progressively worse. Same symptoms as having low testosterone and also add in aches in my knees and elbows.

I only took .25mg twice per week (day after each of my 50mg test injections)

Attached is the bloodwork for my e2. I independently ordered it and it's the sensitive.

Can you vets please help me on what to do next? Do I cease the AI for now? Do I lower the dose of the AI (which would seem odd as I'm at the bottom end as it is..).

I'm at a loss and just wanna feel better.
Protocol:
Test cyp- 50mg each Wednesday and Saturday
Hcg- hcg 250iu on Tuesdays and Fridays
Anastrozole .25mg Thursdays and Sundays

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**FRDave** · 01-30-2014, 06:48 PM

Being that you added Arimidex at the same time you cut your HCG dose in half, I would probably try no AI for the next 4-6 weeks, then get more blood work to determine the use for an AI or not.

**LFH40** · 01-30-2014, 06:52 PM

Originally Posted by FRDave

Being that you added Arimidex at the same time you cut your HCG dose in half, I would probably try no AI for the next 4-6 weeks, then get more blood work to determine the use for an AI or not.

So if I'm reading this correctly, I'm a 9 for E2? Would this be considered "crashed?" With the range being between 3-70?

**FRDave** · 01-30-2014, 06:54 PM

Originally Posted by LFH40

So if I'm reading this correctly, I'm a 9 for E2? Would this be considered "crashed?" With the range being between 3-70?

Pretty much, yes. Under 20 my joints hurt, I have issues sleeping, libido is low, etc. I feel best around 30 which is ideal according to LEF.

**LFH40** · 01-30-2014, 07:17 PM

Yep, my body aches in the joints and my libido, which was starting to feel amazing, has waned quite considerably. My erection quality just sucks again, and I also have had trouble sleeping.

Is this one of those things that I just have to wait it out for it to rebound or is there anything I can take to help "boost" it a bit?

I knew that getting dialed would be a tricky task, so I'm not expecting miracles overnight, but just eager to feel like I was starting to prior to the AI and doubling my hcg (on accident)

**FRDave** · 01-30-2014, 07:37 PM

My E2 shot back up fairly quickly but I need an AI to keep it in range. You are probably fine without an AI so your E2 may take longer to rise, but I would think a week or two tops, if that.

The fastest way to get it back up is to use more test and/or HCG but I personally would just continue your protocol without the AI and wait it out.

**LFH40** · 01-30-2014, 07:42 PM

Sounds like pretty sound advice. If I cease the AI, I can wait it out and see what my 6 month BW looks like in April. I guess double dosing the hcg was what caused my nipple issues. I'll see of they stay away now that I'm on the regular dose. With any luck, I'll be one of the few guys who do not need an AI. Only time and blood work will tell!

**LFH40** · 01-31-2014, 01:29 AM

I also read on another forum that once you stop taking arimidex then your e2 rebounds and at a higher level than it previously was. Is this bunk or is there any validity to this?

If I no longer have to take this regularly, is this something that I would just end up taking intermittently when I start feeling symptoms of high e2 (sensitive nips, low libido...) what a way to have to live. Constantly forever trying to find the sweet spot.

**FRDave** · 01-31-2014, 04:06 AM

Rebound just means the aromatase enzyme is free to convert androgens such as testosterone into estrogen again. It will not convert more than previous or you would not hear of people lowering or dropping arimidex over time which many do.

You will start converting again but this is needed to get your E2 back to a healthy range.

**SEOINAGE** · 01-31-2014, 07:58 AM

You definitely need to stop it entirely right now, it takes some time to recover your e2, I crashed mine not long ago, but even withing a couple weeks of stopping the AI I started to feel improvements and much better after a month. If you just reduce your dose your body might not be able to do what it needs to do to fix this, especially since you don't know if you even need it.

I mean you could drop it for a month then start another dosing amount much less and then get blood work a while later. But I think the advice to get blood work without ai again is a good one. And if you find you need the ai again just have to take much less than you were before.

**LFH40** · 01-31-2014, 09:13 AM

Originally Posted by SEOINAGE

You definitely need to stop it entirely right now, it takes some time to recover your e2, I crashed mine not long ago, but even withing a couple weeks of stopping the AI I started to feel improvements and much better after a month. If you just reduce your dose your body might not be able to do what it needs to do to fix this, especially since you don't know if you even need it.

I mean you could drop it for a month then start another dosing amount much less and then get blood work a while later. But I think the advice to get blood work without ai again is a good one. And if you find you need the ai again just have to take much less than you were before.

Thank you for the sage advice. I've stopped the AI and will not take any again until I get blood work in April. I really have a feeling that my mid-dosed hcg caused me to aromatase at a higher rate therefore needing the AI, but when I remedied my incorrect dose, I crashed my E2 while on the AI. Hope this is the case.

**2Sox** · 01-31-2014, 09:49 AM

Originally Posted by LFH40

Thank you for the sage advice. I've stopped the AI and will not take any again until I get blood work in April. I really have a feeling that my mid-dosed hcg caused me to aromatase at a higher rate therefore needing the AI, but when I remedied my incorrect dose, I crashed my E2 while on the AI. Hope this is the case.

If I were you, I would definitely NOT wait until April to get your blood work done. IMO, you need to keep on top of this - especially with what you have been describing. I'm a firm believer in frequent lab work, especially while your getting dialed in.

**LFH40** · 01-31-2014, 10:31 AM

Originally Posted by 2Sox

If I were you, I would definitely NOT wait until April to get your blood work done. IMO, you need to keep on top of this - especially with what you have been describing. I'm a firm believer in frequent lab work, especially while your getting dialed in.

If you were me, at what point would you get another e2 lab done? I paid out of pocket for this one, but lowT.com will cover the next one in April. Should I do another independent one in March?

**2Sox** · 01-31-2014, 10:41 AM

Originally Posted by LFH40

If you were me, at what point would you get another e2 lab done? I paid out of pocket for this one, but lowT.com will cover the next one in April. Should I do another independent one in March?

I get BW done every 4-5 weeks like clock work.

As you probably know, I had a long tete a tete with LowT about the impracticality and unfairness of twice yearly bloodwork.

**2Sox** · 01-31-2014, 10:42 AM

Try going to your GP so your insurance can cover it. It's really no big deal for a doc to write a script once a month.

**LFH40** · 01-31-2014, 11:09 AM

I have to find a new GP after all this low t stuff. They didn't wanna do anything for me. I had to beg to get an MRI on a pituitary tumor that I've bad since 1993. Even then he said that he would be happy if I could get to 300 testosterone naturally. I am never going back to that doctor

**LFH40** · 01-31-2014, 11:22 AM

What exactly would be considered "crashed E2" I am at the bottom end of the range, but is that considered crashed?

**vmons01** · 01-31-2014, 11:36 AM

I was put on an Ai pretty early on as well and it crashed my E2 Sensitive down to 9 also. I felt like crap (erectile issues, sleep issues, tired, etc.) so I took control of things, stopped taking an Ai, and started my own E2 testing every 4 weeks, keeping a careful log. After not much of a movement upward I decided to up my Test dosage from 145 to 250 FOR ONE DOSAGE ONLY. It seemed to have worked for me. I've been dialed in for a while now and test myself every 2 months. I've had to tweek here and there taking an Ai once every 8 weeks for a little bit then maybe blasting one dosage a couple of times to tweek myself. I've been dialed in now for a few months without messing with stuff.

I did decide to reduce my dosage from 145 down to 140, and may go down to 130. My libido and erections seem to be better when my Test is in the low 700's. At my current dosage of 145 my Test is in the low 800's.

I am fortunate to not need an Ai nor do I have HGB/HCT blood issues. I think it helps that I'm at about 12%bf and work out very intensely 5 days a week.

The point of all of this is to take control of things and keep a very detailed log! I can send you my log if you want, I track EVERYTHING.

**LFH40** · 02-04-2014, 05:34 PM

How long would you guys wait after stopping the AI to get another blood test on the E2?

**LFH40** · 02-05-2014, 11:42 AM

Originally Posted by LFH40

How long would you guys wait after stopping the AI to get another blood test on the E2?

Please guys, if you would.

**vmons01** · 02-05-2014, 12:34 PM

Personally, 3-4 weeks ... 4 weeks max ... on morning of next injection. I tested once a month on my own until I was dialed in, then every 2 months for a little bit, now every 3 months.

**Beethoven** · 02-05-2014, 03:48 PM

Originally Posted by LFH40

How long would you guys wait after stopping the AI to get another blood test on the E2?

I also get tested about every four weeks till I'm dialed in. I brought my E2 a bit low also, I immediately stopped. I was going to start sub Q twice a week but put it off for a week knowing my E2 would spike with a one a week shot. It's been two weeks and I'm going to start bi weekly shots this Saturday. When in doubt, test your BW before making any further adjustments. Anytime you make an adjustment, give it four weeks.

**2Sox** · 02-05-2014, 06:20 PM

Yep. The guys in the above posts got it right. 3-4 weeks should do the trick. Doesn't waiting suck?

**64509chvl** · 02-05-2014, 07:18 PM

Ha! Yes, waiting sucks no doubt! Worth it though.

**LFH40** · 02-05-2014, 09:51 PM

Originally Posted by 2Sox

Yep. The guys in the above posts got it right. 3-4 weeks should do the trick. Doesn't waiting suck?

Yes, it sure does. I get myself so wrapped up in blood tests and waiting and noting symptoms and how I feel waiting to get dialed in. Guess that's all part of it and I just need to be patient and just be smart and keep getting BW done consistently before making changes (which I'm doing impatiently!

)

Thank you guys the advice and reassurance! It's appreciated!

**Beethoven** · 02-05-2014, 10:12 PM

Originally Posted by LFH40

Yes, it sure does. I get myself so wrapped up in blood tests and waiting and noting symptoms and how I feel waiting to get dialed in. Guess that's all part of it and I just need to be patient and just be smart and keep getting BW done consistently before making changes (which I'm doing impatiently!

)

Thank you guys the advice and reassurance! It's appreciated!

The waiting does suck but the payoff once dialed in is worth it.

**spin_doctor** · 02-11-2014, 05:32 AM

I just got my blood work in as well. I am at 5 on my E2. My joints hurt like a 90 year old man with bad arthritis. Everything else seems ok, but the aches suck. Now that I know what it is I can fix it. I will drop my AI completely for a week and then half the dose from there and test again in 4-5 weeks. If my joints don't get better soon I will skip the dose again.

**xcraider37** · 02-11-2014, 06:11 AM

Originally Posted by spin_doctor

I just got my blood work in as well. I am at 5 on my E2. My joints hurt like a 90 year old man with bad arthritis. Everything else seems ok, but the aches suck. Now that I know what it is I can fix it. I will drop my AI completely for a week and then half the dose from there and test again in 4-5 weeks. If my joints don't get better soon I will skip the dose again.

Better plan try and drop your t dose to where you don't need the ai.