New to the game need guidance

**mob_inc** · 02-06-2014, 08:58 PM

Hello my name is AJ. I spent years working out regularly. Had no supplements or protein drinks.... I was doing a long stretch behind concrete walls. I gained pretty good but I was eating like a horse. That was 10 years ago.

Recently I looked into testosterone therapy . Made the appointment. Had my labs done and the doc said they were through the floor. 3.5 to be exact. I have been prescribed 2ml (400mg) of testosterone Cyopitate every week. Had my first shot today. How long before I feel and see the results of this? I read 24-48 hours after injections.
I'm pretty anxious to see where this takes me both in the weight pile and elsewhere.

**64509chvl** · 02-06-2014, 09:54 PM

Dude, that's a straight up cycle! Not even close to TRT dose...most guys seem to settle in around 100-120mg's a week & splitting that in half for twice a week injections seems to be very well liked.

**mob_inc** · 02-06-2014, 10:02 PM

Originally Posted by 64509chvl

Dude, that's a straight up cycle! Not even close to TRT dose...most guys seem to settle in around 100-120mg's a week & splitting that in half for twice a week injections seems to be very well liked.

What I've been researching most people using the Cyopitate cycle with 600-1000 a week usually broke into two injections. I was more worried about it not being enough to concern with lifting again. Saying that 500 a week is a good start.

On other note this doc is pretty reputable. He was referred and works in conjunction with my Kidney Doc. And yes I trust him. I was hours from death from total renal failure when I met my doc. His first words to me were " if you have family you may want to have them come to hospital you have a very slim chance of making it through the night" well I did and am fully recovered but that doc is now who I trust and see when I need a doc. He agrees with my HRT doc. I'm sure they will be on top of any negative factors.

**mob_inc** · 02-06-2014, 10:04 PM

But on side note I have been reading a lot about cycles and estrogen blockers etc which I admit I have no clue. Is this something I should be able to ask my doc for without throwing red flags. I have also read a lot that says test is the shit and stacking isn't necessary but personal choice.

**64509chvl** · 02-06-2014, 10:23 PM

Ok well, yes I guess 400-500mg's a week would be a good beginner/first cycle, but still considered a cycle & not a TRT dose by any means. I can understand the relationship that you now have with your doctor, that is a great thing to have. Just don't see how he can be on board with starting you like this! I wouldn't even do it, with the fear alone that from his lack of knowledge with TRT wanting to start a guy that high that you'll be going through some serious ups & downs tryin to get dialed in. Just makes no sense!

**Megalodon6** · 02-06-2014, 10:32 PM

400mg is definitely not TRT dose lol. 200mg is on the high end of trt dose

**2Sox** · 02-06-2014, 10:35 PM

Originally Posted by mob_inc

Hello my name is AJ. I spent years working out regularly. Had no supplements or protein drinks.... I was doing a long stretch behind concrete walls. I gained pretty good but I was eating like a horse. That was 10 years ago.

Recently I looked into testosterone therapy . Made the appointment. Had my labs done and the doc said they were through the floor. 3.5 to be exact. I have been prescribed 2ml (400mg) of testosterone Cyopitate every week. Had my first shot today. How long before I feel and see the results of this? I read 24-48 hours after injections.
I'm pretty anxious to see where this takes me both in the weight pile and elsewhere.

God bless good doctors! But you don't have one for your TRT. Do your homework and you'll see that when going on TRT "less is always more". It's dogmatic. It's the cardinal rule. Your doctor either doesn't know it or doesn't care that he's breaking it. (Either way, I'd advise you look for someone else to treat you.) If you stay on that dose with no E2 control, you're in for a world of hurt. MUCH more can be said. But it's your turn to think about what you want to know.

There is SO much to learn, so drink deeply at the fountain of humility and ask a lot of questions - and listen to the answers.

**mob_inc** · 02-06-2014, 11:03 PM

So initially I found this site googling after I had recieved the prescription but before my first shot. Simply by googling testosterone cyopitate. And in the description of the drug the amounts are pretty much the same. 200-400 trt and 500-1000 for cycle. Maybe the doc seen in my eyes that I would also like to see some gains. But doctors are keeping tabs on my labs....maybe because my levels are so extremely low. Being that normal free test is 40 and my body is at 3.5.
All that said I'm sure if it's too much he will adjust it.
My questions now are what do I ask him for to battle the side effects. Or is that something that throws up red flags. I don't mind this being a Cycle dose right now I do want to see the gains from it. So if we all agree that this is a beginner cycling dose how do I use it efficiently to get the most out of it on this first rip. Then if things are a little out of wack when I go back in in a couple months have the dosage re evaluated. Right now as it stands I will use it as TRT and to get some good gains lifting.

**mob_inc** · 02-06-2014, 11:06 PM

On steroid .com they have a complete breakdown of testosterone cyopitate. Since I'm a new member it won't let me post a link to said article

**FRDave** · 02-06-2014, 11:15 PM

This is a straight up cycle and if not on an AI you will have some serious side effects including gyno aka breast tissue.

Better get in the habit of donating blood as often as possible or you will end up having a stroke or dying.

Good luck and hopefully you continue to research and drop your dose considerably.

**FRDave** · 02-06-2014, 11:22 PM

Since on cycle, I highly suggest you read these to get started:

How To Cycle Safely by Observing Blood Counts

Estrogen, Prolactin, Progesterone Management + Gynecomastia Prevention & Reversal

http://m.lef.org/magazine/mag2008/no...ng-Male_01.htm

I would also recommend to do a search on the long term effects. There is a reason people on cycle 400mg per week for 12-16 weeks max.

**2Sox** · 02-06-2014, 11:27 PM

Originally Posted by mob_inc

So initially I found this site googling after I had recieved the prescription but before my first shot. Simply by googling testosterone cyopitate. And in the description of the drug the amounts are pretty much the same. 200-400 trt and 500-1000 for cycle. Maybe the doc seen in my eyes that I would also like to see some gains. But doctors are keeping tabs on my labs....maybe because my levels are so extremely low. Being that normal free test is 40 and my body is at 3.5.
All that said I'm sure if it's too much he will adjust it.
My questions now are what do I ask him for to battle the side effects. Or is that something that throws up red flags. I don't mind this being a Cycle dose right now I do want to see the gains from it. So if we all agree that this is a beginner cycling dose how do I use it efficiently to get the most out of it on this first rip. Then if things are a little out of wack when I go back in in a couple months have the dosage re evaluated. Right now as it stands I will use it as TRT and to get some good gains lifting.

This just doesn't compute. What do you want for yourself - really? Good health or big muscles? Address your hypogonadism, get yourself dialed in and then you can blast later on. From what I know, you'll still make gains on a good TRT regimen.

Is sacrificing your health for your vanity worth the price?

**mob_inc** · 02-06-2014, 11:53 PM

Originally Posted by 2Sox

This just doesn't compute. What do you want for yourself - really? Good health or big muscles? Address your hypogonadism, get yourself dialed in and then you can blast later on. From what I know, you'll still make gains on a good TRT regimen. Is sacrificing your health for your vanity worth the price?

A little bit of both that's why I'm on this site. And vanity has nothing to do with why I want size. I would be happy being a large man if at same time I could rip a car apart with my hands. My initial thread gave a clue where my weight lifting started. 20 years of that to be exact. Because I'm out now and became successful doesn't mean I don't deal with this same crews. Strength is respected not beauty. I'm not into it for the look.
I own a successful custom bike shop MOB, Inc./ BMC Choppers and I live the life daily. I want gains and of course I want health. I'm sure after the 8 weeks when I go back in for labs they will readjust accordingly. But in the mean time I would like to see those gains. My question is how to limit the side effects you speak of. I seen someone mention AL or AI I don't know what that is. Please any recommendations use full name of substance and its difficulty of obtaining.

**mob_inc** · 02-06-2014, 11:58 PM

Well I went in for extremely low test levels but seems everyone's opinion says my dose is a cycle dose...... That being said I want both. I don't expect to figure it out first day but all this is bringing up questions for me to ask my doc

**64509chvl** · 02-07-2014, 09:39 AM

Start by getting dialed in with a Good TRT protocol like we mentioned...it will take time. Once you get dialed, then do blasts as you wish! That should suit what you're lookin for. Blasting frequency is up to you but for TRT to work you've got to do it right!

**2Sox** · 02-07-2014, 10:04 AM

Originally Posted by mob_inc

A little bit of both that's why I'm on this site. And vanity has nothing to do with why I want size. I would be happy being a large man if at same time I could rip a car apart with my hands. My initial thread gave a clue where my weight lifting started. 20 years of that to be exact. Because I'm out now and became successful doesn't mean I don't deal with this same crews. Strength is respected not beauty. I'm not into it for the look.
I own a successful custom bike shop MOB, Inc./ BMC Choppers and I live the life daily. I want gains and of course I want health. I'm sure after the 8 weeks when I go back in for labs they will readjust accordingly. But in the mean time I would like to see those gains. My question is how to limit the side effects you speak of. I seen someone mention AL or AI I don't know what that is. Please any recommendations use full name of substance and its difficulty of obtaining.

First I want to say that anyone's desire to research and learn more (and having the humility to listen) - including yours - is something to respect very much. Although unspoken, I believe there is an enormous amount of mutual respect among the members of this forum for this reason alone.

I believe many of your questions will be answered by the links provided by Dave in post #10 above. I'm studying them now myself and learning from them.

I'll try to address the points you make in your posts above. Firstly, I don't think you are being honest with yourself regarding vanity. If you look up the definition from various sources you'll see that vanity is an excess concentration on oneself and one's appearance, and one's effect on others. My life history is a study in vanity so needless to say I recognize it and speak from firsthand personal knowledge and experience! For most of my life, I used my appearance - and what I saw as my "charm" - to affect people and to get what I wanted. To make this point clear: When my wife and I first started dating she would sometimes tell me that it frustrated her when women would stop and stare at me when we walked down the streets of Manhattan. Things were not too difficult for me, particularly in the woman territory. Not surprising, it was easy to fall into depending on my appearance and the result was that for many years this dependence crippled my mind and stunted my intellect.

In my thirties, when I began to study ethics and philosophy and heard kind criticism, this began to change dramatically. I became more aware - and I believe - a more thoughtful, kinder person. Anyone can P.M. me if they'd like to know more about what I have been learning.

Furthermore, ANYONE who spends time in a gym has a question about vanity and it doesn't take a big brain to see this. I say this dogmatically. And anyone who is honest with himself will admit it to himself. They don't put mirrors on the walls for nothing. Need I go into specifics? So let's dispense with any denials regarding vanity.

I would also like to suggest that from how you speak above, you have respect, strength and beauty all mixed up. History shows that a man is respected in direct proportion to how interested he is in justice. A man commands respect if he has the conviction to do what's right even in the most difficult of situations. And this, I learned is the same as good will. I'll give you a definition from the philosophy Aesthetic Realism: "Good will is the desire to have something else stronger and more beautiful, for this desire makes oneself stronger and more beautiful." Think about the greatest and most respected men in history and you'll find the least vain, and least self-concentrated men in history.

So you can bulk yourself up, and get powerful enough "to rip a car apart with your hands" but people will not respect you - just for that. They may fear you; they may be in awe that you worked so hard to get that strong - but this has nothing at all to do with respecting you.

Bodybuilding is big "business" in men's lives at this point in time, so needless to say I'm not writing all of this just for you. I'm writing this for myself and for the other guys on this forum because I think it will be of benefit. We've all got to see what our true strength is and where it lies - and it has nothing at all to do with bulking up. I think it has all to do with building our ethics, our characters, as we build our bodies. Mind and body as one.

**mob_inc** · 02-07-2014, 04:05 PM

Originally Posted by 2Sox

First I want to say that anyone's desire to research and learn more (and having the humility to listen) - including yours - is something to respect very much. Although unspoken, I believe there is an enormous amount of mutual respect among the members of this forum for this reason alone. I believe many of your questions will be answered by the links provided by Dave in post #10 above. I'm studying them now myself and learning from them. I'll try to address the points you make in your posts above. Firstly, I don't think you are being honest with yourself regarding vanity. If you look up the definition from various sources you'll see that vanity is an excess concentration on oneself and one's appearance, and one's effect on others. My life history is a study in vanity so needless to say I recognize it and speak from firsthand personal knowledge and experience! For most of my life, I used my appearance - and what I saw as my "charm" - to affect people and to get what I wanted. To make this point clear: When my wife and I first started dating she would sometimes tell me that it frustrated her when women would stop and stare at me when we walked down the streets of Manhattan. Things were not too difficult for me, particularly in the woman territory. Not surprising, it was easy to fall into depending on my appearance and the result was that for many years this dependence crippled my mind and stunted my intellect. In my thirties, when I began to study ethics and philosophy and heard kind criticism, this began to change dramatically. I became more aware - and I believe - a more thoughtful, kinder person. Anyone can P.M. me if they'd like to know more about what I have been learning. Furthermore, ANYONE who spends time in a gym has a question about vanity and it doesn't take a big brain to see this. I say this dogmatically. And anyone who is honest with himself will admit it to himself. They don't put mirrors on the walls for nothing. Need I go into specifics? So let's dispense with any denials regarding vanity. I would also like to suggest that from how you speak above, you have respect, strength and beauty all mixed up. History shows that a man is respected in direct proportion to how interested he is in justice. A man commands respect if he has the conviction to do what's right even in the most difficult of situations. And this, I learned is the same as good will. I'll give you a definition from the philosophy Aesthetic Realism: "Good will is the desire to have something else stronger and more beautiful, for this desire makes oneself stronger and more beautiful." Think about the greatest and most respected men in history and you'll find the least vain, and least self-concentrated men in history. So you can bulk yourself up, and get powerful enough "to rip a car apart with your hands" but people will not respect you - just for that. They may fear you; they may be in awe that you worked so hard to get that strong - but this has nothing at all to do with respecting you. Bodybuilding is big "business" in men's lives at this point in time, so needless to say I'm not writing all of this just for you. I'm writing this for myself and for the other guys on this forum because I think it will be of benefit. We've all got to see what our true strength is and where it lies - and it has nothing at all to do with bulking up. I think it has all to do with building our ethics, our characters, as we build our bodies. Mind and body as one.

First I have no problems with humility......or the understanding of such. And ripping a car apart was in itself was just an outrageous statement... Nothing I'm truly looking for......

Second my definitions of respect are very clear. As you tell me this from behind a book stance... If that's what you believe then hey good for you you have never been forced to live in an environment surrounded by killers and predators all together. Beauty is not a concern. And vain maybe a little but every bit of respect from my peers has been earned.... Blood sweat and tears. Strength not for vanity but for survival. In any barbaric society through out history it's was the Strong that emerged..... Maximum Security is no different than a barbaric society. The strength to defend and protect us a more vital quality. I'm here not to sit through a ethics class or anthropology. I'm here to converse with others about their experience with the drug. And can help me with ideas of how this is going to effect me. In the next days to come.

**2Sox** · 02-07-2014, 05:58 PM

Originally Posted by mob_inc

First I have no problems with humility......or the understanding of such. And ripping a car apart was in itself was just an outrageous statement... Nothing I'm truly looking for......

Second my definitions of respect are very clear. As you tell me this from behind a book stance... If that's what you believe then hey good for you you have never been forced to live in an environment surrounded by killers and predators all together. Beauty is not a concern. And vain maybe a little but every bit of respect from my peers has been earned.... Blood sweat and tears. Strength not for vanity but for survival. In any barbaric society through out history it's was the Strong that emerged..... Maximum Security is no different than a barbaric society. The strength to defend and protect us a more vital quality. I'm here not to sit through a ethics class or anthropology. I'm here to converse with others about their experience with the drug. And can help me with ideas of how this is going to effect me. In the next days to come.

It's good to know your thoughts. I can only imagine what it's like inside.

But now you're on the outside... and gratefully things are different for you. I sincerely wish you well.