Opinions/Questions on new TRT program

**BBrock293** · 02-07-2014, 07:31 PM

Age: 32
Starting T: 302
Current: 456

Long story short, met with a new Dr. today that specializes in TRT. I have been on 100ML every other week with my PCP and have T levels of 456 (he took no other numbers & I started at 302). I went for a blood test today to measure total T, free T, estradiol, and prolactin. Those will be in on Monday, and I am going to pick up some additional T to supplement my current program. The new program will consist of 1/2 ML twice weekly and Clomid (boys are gone). Overall, I feel good about this approach since the old Dr wasn't concerned about the shrinkage and checking any other numbers.

Doc said he would like to see my levels consistently at 1200 and we will get there by doing bloodwork every 3 months on the dot and doing the above. Here is my question, is there any harm at being consistently at 1200? I know some people feel better at lower doses but is the right approach in your guys' opinions? I feel better knowing that we are now looking at free, total, and E to have a balanced approach. Thanks for any input in advance!

**FRDave** · 02-07-2014, 08:03 PM

200mg weekly is a big jump. I personally would start at 50mg twice weekly and adjust based on blood work if needed.

As for clomid, I am not sure of the long term effect and what it impacts negatively health wise. Any reason you guys chose this route over HCG ?

In regards to test levels, free test is most important in which I would shoot for top of range. Where ever this lands you on total test, it won't be of much concern. Just keep an eye on your E2 and your blood counts as these will rise more so with the higher your test levels and can be dangerous if not tended to.

**BBrock293** · 02-07-2014, 09:54 PM

Originally Posted by FRDave

200mg weekly is a big jump. I personally would start at 50mg twice weekly and adjust based on blood work if needed.

As for clomid, I am not sure of the long term effect and what it impacts negatively health wise. Any reason you guys chose this route over HCG ?

In regards to test levels, free test is most important in which I would shoot for top of range. Where ever this lands you on total test, it won't be of much concern. Just keep an eye on your E2 and your blood counts as these will rise more so with the higher your test levels and can be dangerous if not tended to.

Sorry, just to clarify, I am currently on 1ML/100MG every other week, so we are switching to .5ML/50MG twice a week. He suggested clomid vs HCG because clomid is pill form and easier. He knows I don't really care with regard to injections but suggested it from a simplicity standpoint.

**xcraider37** · 02-08-2014, 09:24 AM

Originally Posted by BBrock293

Sorry, just to clarify, I am currently on 1ML/100MG every other week, so we are switching to .5ML/50MG twice a week. He suggested clomid vs HCG because clomid is pill form and easier. He knows I don't really care with regard to injections but suggested it from a simplicity standpoint.

.5ml = 100mg
1 ml = 200mg

**2Sox** · 02-08-2014, 07:07 PM

Originally Posted by BBrock293

Age: 32
Starting T: 302
Current: 456

Long story short, met with a new Dr. today that specializes in TRT. I have been on 100ML every other week with my PCP and have T levels of 456 (he took no other numbers & I started at 302). I went for a blood test today to measure total T, free T, estradiol, and prolactin. Those will be in on Monday, and I am going to pick up some additional T to supplement my current program. The new program will consist of 1/2 ML twice weekly and Clomid (boys are gone). Overall, I feel good about this approach since the old Dr wasn't concerned about the shrinkage and checking any other numbers.

Doc said he would like to see my levels consistently at 1200 and we will get there by doing bloodwork every 3 months on the dot and doing the above. Here is my question, is there any harm at being consistently at 1200? I know some people feel better at lower doses but is the right approach in your guys' opinions? I feel better knowing that we are now looking at free, total, and E to have a balanced approach. Thanks for any input in advance!

Just to clarify: Is your present protocol 50mg two times a week?

If it is, this is a pretty sensible place to start - as many on this forum do this.

If you feel good at 1200 or even 1300 TT, I'd say go for it. But as Dave said above, focus on your Free T and watch your estrogen and hematocrit level. (My belief and practice is to get VERY frequent blood work.) IMO, if I could keep all this under control pretty effortlessly, I'd shoot for the stars! It's been said many times; every man reacts differently to T. You just have to be very objective in evaluating the results of your protocol.

**BBrock293** · 02-09-2014, 12:37 PM

Originally Posted by 2Sox

Just to clarify: Is your present protocol 50mg two times a week?

If it is, this is a pretty sensible place to start - as many on this forum do this.

If you feel good at 1200 or even 1300 TT, I'd say go for it. But as Dave said above, focus on your Free T and watch your estrogen and hematocrit level. (My belief and practice is to get VERY frequent blood work.) IMO, if I could keep all this under control pretty effortlessly, I'd shoot for the stars! It's been said many times; every man reacts differently to T. You just have to be very objective in evaluating the results of your protocol.

The new dosing is 1/2 ML (100 MG) twice weekly. From what I gathered, we are using the Clomid to restart and also to control E, is this correct?

**2Sox** · 02-09-2014, 01:34 PM

Originally Posted by BBrock293

The new dosing is 1/2 ML (100 MG) twice weekly. From what I gathered, we are using the Clomid to restart and also to control E, is this correct?

You're going to have to wait for other members to comment on "restarting" since I have no experience with this. However, I will say that 200mg a week is a rather large dose to start and remain on continually for TRT. Doctors knowledgeable in TRT always start men low and titrate up, if necessary. I highly doubt your doctor is one that is knowledgeable with this protocol. I also know there are better options available than Clomid for estrogen control.

Take a look at this for an excellent discussion:
Estrogen, Prolactin, Progesterone Management + Gynecomastia Prevention & Reversal

**BBrock293** · 02-09-2014, 01:47 PM

I was on 1ML every other week, and it only brought my test up to 456. That is why we are increasing the dosing to 1ML weekly (split in two injections). Should I ask about something to control the estrogen since we are doubling the dose, or just wait until the next round of bloodwork in 3 months?

**2Sox** · 02-09-2014, 01:58 PM

Originally Posted by BBrock293

I was on 1ML every other week, and it only brought my test up to 456. That is why we are increasing the dosing to 1ML weekly (split in two injections). Should I ask about something to control the estrogen since we are doubling the dose, or just wait until the next round of bloodwork in 3 months?

That's a good dose, but look at your post (that I quoted) and you'll see that's not what you said.

Anyway, when you read the link I sent, you'll then have enough information about estrogen control to discuss with your doctor. The ideal that we all like to shoot for is a T dosage that has us feel very good WITHOUT the necessity for an estrogen control agent while having all our other blood values in range - particularly hematocrit level. From one point of view the T numbers really don't matter as long a you're feeling good.

**Jasonstatham** · 02-09-2014, 02:05 PM

Originally Posted by 2Sox

That's a good dose, but look at your post (that I quoted) and you'll see that's not what you said.

Anyway, when you read the link I sent, you'll then have enough information about estrogen control to discuss with your doctor. The ideal that we all like to shoot for is a T dosage that has us feel very good WITHOUT the necessity for an estrogen control agent while having all our other blood values in range - particularly hematocrit level. From one point of view the T numbers really don't matter as long a you're feeling good.

Hey 2sox, do you still go to dr g in BK? I go there and was looking for some insight on what ur doing as far as estrogen because he doesn't prescribe AI. I would've PMed u but I can't. I started a thread as we'll but can't get any answers. I read one of ur threads regarding this. Could u please advise. Thanks bro

**2Sox** · 02-09-2014, 02:13 PM

Originally Posted by Jasonstatham

Hey 2sox, do you still go to dr g in BK? I go there and was looking for some insight on what ur doing as far as estrogen because he doesn't prescribe AI. I would've PMed u but I can't. I started a thread as we'll but can't get any answers. I read one of ur threads regarding this. Could u please advise. Thanks bro

Yes, I do. I just replied to that thread, so just keep that one going if you have any more questions.

**64509chvl** · 02-09-2014, 02:38 PM

BBrock...when was your blood pulled when you were on 1ml every other week? Every other week is a horrible protocol & if it wasn't pulled till after a week from last injection or even worse, close to 2 weeks after injection...that's why your levels were still low! Your levels will be very consistent with twice a week injections & I bet you & your doctor will be very surprised at what your levels will be at 1/2 ml a week split into 2 injections of 1/4 ml per injection. Blood being pulled the morning of next injection. That's prolly the best place to start...maybe you will need more, but it's a lot easier to slowly bring it up if need be, depending on blood work.

**2Sox** · 02-09-2014, 02:57 PM

Originally Posted by 64509chvl

BBrock...when was your blood pulled when you were on 1ml every other week? Every other week is a horrible protocol & if it wasn't pulled till after a week from last injection or even worse, close to 2 weeks after injection...that's why your levels were still low! Your levels will be very consistent with twice a week injections & I bet you & your doctor will be very surprised at what your levels will be at 1/2 ml a week split into 2 injections of 1/4 ml per injection. Blood being pulled the morning of next injection. That's prolly the best place to start...maybe you will need more, but it's a lot easier to slowly bring it up if need be, depending on blood work.

Definitely some essential points made here.

**BBrock293** · 02-09-2014, 03:54 PM

When I was on the 1ML every other week, I did switch on my own to 1/2 per week. I did 1/2ML on a Sunday and my appointment was on a Wednesday.

I had a blood test with the new Dr on Friday the 7th and I had an injection of 1/2 ML 6 days before those labs.

**64509chvl** · 02-09-2014, 04:19 PM

So basically a week after a 1/2ml (100mg) injection, your test was 450. Really no surprise there. I like the idea of starting fresh at 1/4ml (50mg's) twice a week. Easy to work with for further adjustments if needed. Don't aim for a number either...aim for a good feeling.