TRT any gains expected?

**MK1** · 03-10-2014, 07:08 AM

Have just started TRT @ 200mg Test Cyp .5ml split twice a week? I am 33yo 205 6foot and have been working out on and off for years. Lately I have been hitting it pretty hard for the last 6months my partner has seen gains but I have not. I haven't lost any real weight either. Should I now see gains with TRT ?

**kelkel** · 03-10-2014, 07:36 AM

Hi MK!.

Well, if your T levels were low warranting TRT and you now optimize them then yes, you will see gains. Your levels will be back to those of a young man again and if you train hard, nail down your nutrition and otherwise do things correctly you will definitely see progress. Nutrition is key here. If you're looking to gain muscle you have to eat enough. And most guys just don't really do this.

What put you on TRT? Was there a causative factor?
200 split is high end TRT and most really never need that amount. You'll be converting a lot into estrogen so hopefully your doc monitors this properly and controls it when needed. Is HCG involved as well?

**MK1** · 03-10-2014, 07:43 AM

.5 split into two .25 pins 3.5 days apart or should I pin .5 weekly

**Beethoven** · 03-10-2014, 07:59 AM

Originally Posted by MK1

.5 split into two .25 pins 3.5 days apart or should I pin .5 weekly

That sounds like 100 mg a week. Kel is right, I saw gains which pretty much put me back where I had been. If you're not careful though, you can out lift yourself. Nutrition is really the key.

**MK1** · 03-10-2014, 08:27 AM

Out lift myself? Nutrition? Oh man this is compounding ! Ha what should I be taking in?

**kelkel** · 03-10-2014, 09:02 AM

Ok, 100mg is MUCH better to start with then you can titrate accordingly at your 6 week BW evaluation.
Consider visiting the Nutrition Forum and speaking to the vets there. Let them know your goals and they will help you out big time.

**MK1** · 03-10-2014, 09:23 AM

Sounds good

**MK1** · 03-10-2014, 12:10 PM

I feel freaking great today and I'm not sure if it is the TRT or this is the best day I have had in a long time, because it's nothing exceptional. But I really feel good.

**zaggahamma** · 03-10-2014, 12:26 PM

glad your feeling good

other than the good advice already given

my .02 would be (after you dial in your trt) and later on you want to maybe add 5-10lbs of lbm, its been my experience that adding a different compound along in with your normal T dose may be better than say ramping up your trt dose alone

**bartman314** · 03-10-2014, 12:35 PM

that's the trt. :-)

**MK1** · 03-10-2014, 01:59 PM

[QUOTE="zaggahamma;6826405"]glad your feeling good other than the good advice already given my .02 would be (after you dial in your trt) and later on you want to maybe add 5-10lbs of lbm, its been my experience that adding a different compound along in with your normal T dose may be better than say ramping up your trt dose alone[/QUOTE.

What kind of compound ?

**MK1** · 03-10-2014, 03:03 PM

What type of compound ?

**zaggahamma** · 03-10-2014, 04:53 PM

i like and had success with deca (nandralone deconate)

**Beethoven** · 03-10-2014, 05:59 PM

Originally Posted by zaggahamma

i like and had success with deca (nandralone deconate)

I had good success with Deca back in the day. Will do again later.

**MK1** · 03-10-2014, 06:36 PM

How long do you run it along side of TRT ?

**kelkel** · 03-10-2014, 06:40 PM

MK give TRT a solid year to get dialed in. You'll make great gains if nutrition and training are on point. Then maybe think about cycling. Some of us will be glad to help guide you to safe and effective results.

**Beethoven** · 03-10-2014, 06:40 PM

Originally Posted by MK1

How long do you run it along side of TRT ?

I haven't run it at all since I started trt. But back in the day, I ran it for twelve weeks. Will probably do twelve again.

**Beethoven** · 03-10-2014, 06:45 PM

Originally Posted by kelkel

MK give TRT a solid year to get dialed in. You'll make great gains if nutrition and training are on point. Then maybe think about cycling. Some of us will be glad to help guide you to safe and effective results.

Amen Kel.

**MK1** · 03-10-2014, 07:00 PM

Thanks guys
I'll give it at least a year. The added compound just came up, not something I have really thought about. I really have my hands full pinning twice a week. I workout with a guy that is 25 and he is building up good and it doesn't even look like in working out. I hope the up in test helps. I have been supplementing my diet with a shake in the am w/ breakfast and one after the gym. I have been cutting back on portions and upping clean meals.

**dreadnok89** · 03-11-2014, 06:10 AM

I lost fat by just saying and excercisjng normally

**oldnsedentary** · 03-11-2014, 07:05 AM

Originally Posted by MK1

Nutrition? Oh man this is compounding ! Ha what should I be taking in?

There is an entire diet section on this web site with people eager to help you out. Go there and post your diet, everything you eat and drink in a day (don't fib) and ask for advice.

**Beethoven** · 03-11-2014, 06:12 PM

Originally Posted by oldnsedentary

There is an entire diet section on this web site with people eager to help you out. Go there and post your diet, everything you eat and drink in a day (don't fib) and ask for advice.

I have read much and participate occasionally on that forum. It is great and the folks there are very knowledgeable. I've been eating clean and training hard the last three weeks and not only have I dropped 12 lbs but I'm making gains on my lifts. Proper nutrition really is the key.

**MK1** · 03-14-2014, 09:27 AM

I listed some things but,my diet is pretty good and I eat allot of protein. My size is there just need to cut the fat and get stronger. I know I will with time and training. I seem to be leveling out on the TRT. I had a real High after day 3 but it have leveled. I can deal with this I have a small boost in energy late in the day and haven't nodded off since I started.

**Beethoven** · 03-14-2014, 05:31 PM

Originally Posted by MK1

I listed some things but,my diet is pretty good and I eat allot of protein. My size is there just need to cut the fat and get stronger. I know I will with time and training. I seem to be leveling out on the TRT. I had a real High after day 3 but it have leveled. I can deal with this I have a small boost in energy late in the day and haven't nodded off since I started.

I've been eating clean for the last three weeks and I'm still making gains. Mind you I've been on trt again for the last three months or so and not until I got my nutrition in order have I made some new gains along with loss in weight. When I get stuck the folks in the diet section I know will help.

**MK1** · 06-17-2014, 05:49 AM

4 months in And seeing very minimal gains not losing fat but gaining some strength. I'm not even seeing any size or shape. I work out for only 1.5-2 hours 5 days a week. In this time I make pretty good use of my time and always leave the gym sore and tired. I need a push, thinking of running a cycle after July . Any thoughts

**almostgone** · 06-17-2014, 07:24 AM

Originally Posted by MK1

4 months in And seeing very minimal gains not losing fat but gaining some strength. I'm not even seeing any size or shape. I work out for only 1.5-2 hours 5 days a week. In this time I make pretty good use of my time and always leave the gym sore and tired. I need a push, thinking of running a cycle after July . Any thoughts

Yes.....you may be overdoing it in the gym. If you are volume/high rep training, look into HIT. It is very different from say GVT or one of those high volume splits. I'll be 50 in Sept. and am.on a very poor TRT protocol, but I am slowly making gains....people are even commenting on it. If you're eating to support your growth, and your T is @ an acceptable level, I'd suggest looking @ the Marcus' diary thread in the lounge. It's a lot of info, but very good info. Kel is one of the regulars in there...Marcus of course and several others. Lots of good guys and lots of support! May be just the thing to get you where you want to be.
No matter what you program.you choose, congrats on feeling good and best of luck!

**almostgone** · 06-17-2014, 07:31 AM

Originally Posted by MK1

4 months in And seeing very minimal gains not losing fat but gaining some strength. I'm not even seeing any size or shape. I work out for only 1.5-2 hours 5 days a week. In this time I make pretty good use of my time and always leave the gym sore and tired. I need a push, thinking of running a cycle after July . Any thoughts

In fact, I encourage you to try HIT before adding in a cycle. Look @ "Marcus diary" thread in the lounge that I mentioned in my post above.
On page 41, Marcus posted a 5 day split that may be ideal for you. However, you really need to read the whole thread to get the full benefit from it.

**Beethoven** · 06-17-2014, 08:01 AM

Originally Posted by MK1

4 months in And seeing very minimal gains not losing fat but gaining some strength. I'm not even seeing any size or shape. I work out for only 1.5-2 hours 5 days a week. In this time I make pretty good use of my time and always leave the gym sore and tired. I need a push, thinking of running a cycle after July . Any thoughts

If you are in the gym 2 hours a day you are probably overtraining. TRT is NOT a cycle. Sometimes it takes a little time just to get back to "normal". You can blast but if your training or nutrition aren't optimal, you will not get the most out of it.

**BallSak** · 06-17-2014, 08:20 AM

Originally Posted by MK1

4 months in And seeing very minimal gains not losing fat but gaining some strength. I'm not even seeing any size or shape. I work out for only 1.5-2 hours 5 days a week. In this time I make pretty good use of my time and always leave the gym sore and tired. I need a push, thinking of running a cycle after July . Any thoughts

Sounds to me like your diet is subpar. Go to the nutrition section and layout what your diet looks like on a daily basis.

Also, doing a cycle shortly after starting TRT is not a good idea at all. Give your TRT a couple years to stabilize. You will see plenty of gains if your nutrition and training are right.

**BallSak** · 06-17-2014, 08:22 AM

Also, if your are training for 1.5-2 hours a day then you are not training with intensity.

**MK1** · 06-17-2014, 08:24 AM

2hours includes 30min cardio
I do a hit method occasionally Golds calls it grit it kicks my ass. But I have strength for a longer workout I cannot lift a ton of weight to tire myself out but it I drop the weight I can lift lift lift. I'm not sure what I need. I know TRT isn't a cycle and I'm not sure what blasting is. I just want to see definition

**almostgone** · 06-17-2014, 08:38 AM

Originally Posted by MK1

2hours includes 30min cardio
I do a hit method occasionally Golds calls it grit it kicks my ass. But I have strength for a longer workout I cannot lift a ton of weight to tire myself out but it I drop the weight I can lift lift lift. I'm not sure what I need. I know TRT isn't a cycle and I'm not sure what blasting is. I just want to see definition

A long session for me is pretty much anything 50 min or longer, except leg day..it is usually closer to 1 hr....and I do a good bit of stretching. If you have strength for a longer workout, you may be able to increase your intensity/poundages and be done in half the time.
Not saying it is for everybody, but check out that thread I posted up earlier.

**MK1** · 06-17-2014, 09:14 AM

I'll look into Marcus's post

**Beethoven** · 06-17-2014, 10:44 AM

Originally Posted by almostgone

A long session for me is pretty much anything 50 min or longer, except leg day..it is usually closer to 1 hr....and I do a good bit of stretching. If you have strength for a longer workout, you may be able to increase your intensity/poundages and be done in half the time.
Not saying it is for everybody, but check out that thread I posted up earlier.

Agreed. Weight training session past 45 mins, (except leg day) means your training more muscle endurance than strength. Blasting is what it is called when on trt because there is no pct you just return to your trt. It sounds like you need to tweak your training and get your nutrition in order first. I remember some years ago being in my friends store buying my supplements when this guy comes in wanting to buy whatever he needed to buy because he wasn't growing. When he was asked how much protein he was consuming, he had no clue. Upon examining his nutrition he wasn't even consuming anywhere near 1 gm of protein per kg less lb of lbm.

**MK1** · 06-17-2014, 04:53 PM

So as a fat ass 210#'s your saying I should be knocking down 210g protein ? Or is the number off LBM

**Baxter35** · 06-18-2014, 06:33 AM

Originally Posted by MK1

2hours includes 30min cardio
I do a hit method occasionally Golds calls it grit it kicks my ass. But I have strength for a longer workout I cannot lift a ton of weight to tire myself out but it I drop the weight I can lift lift lift. I'm not sure what I need. I know TRT isn't a cycle and I'm not sure what blasting is. I just want to see definition

Don't get the HIT method referred to here confused with high intensity cardio classes such as Grit. Marcus300 has a great thread on it. Also look up Dorian Yates for explanations and videos on hit.

**lovbyts** · 06-18-2014, 06:55 AM

Another thing, you cant rely on just the scale. Start taking pictures about once every 3 or 4 weeks and compare month to month. You might be surprised the changes.

**MK1** · 06-18-2014, 07:51 AM

Thanks
I have been taking photos

**Beethoven** · 06-18-2014, 07:59 AM

Originally Posted by MK1

So as a fat ass 210#'s your saying I should be knocking down 210g protein ? Or is the number off LBM

Approximate lbm. Check out the nutrition section, they will square you away from the nutrition side.

**MK1** · 06-19-2014, 02:19 PM

Ok
So I have been working out my way
What do you guys recommend for a 4-5 day workout. I have been following a loose schedule of M-legs T-bi's/shoulders W-cardio class T-tris/back F-chest.
What exercises should I do with what reps