will i ever recover ?

[vinny t]

Im from the uk i have been on TRT for 4 years 6 months ago in Jan i was taken off trt with a view to restoring my natural test

Is there any realistic chance that i will ever recover these are by blood test results

So this is 6 months since stopping trt from jan to present day


So in summary

3 weeks after last shot testosterone 10.0 nmol/l lh 0.1 (1.0-8.0) fsh 0.3 (1.0-11)

7 weeks after last shot testosterone 8.6 nmol/l lh 0.1 (1.0-8.0) fsh 0.3 (1.0-11)

10 weeks after last shot testosterone 6.8 nmol/l lh 0.1 (1.0-8.0) fsh 0.3 (1.0-11)

14 weeks after last shot testosterone 3.4 nmol/l lh 0.8 (1.0-8.0) fsh 4.0 (1.0-11)

16 weeks after last shot testosterone 1.8 nmol/l lh 5.6 (1.0-8.0) fsh 11 (1.0-11)

24 weeks after last shot testosterone 1.4 nmol/l lh 13 (1.0-8.0) fsh 17 (1.0-11)

My endo said he wants to keep me off TRT and see if my natural testosterone returns and re test me in 6 months time he said its only now that my Lh and fsh have been really elevated and giving my testicles chance to repond

[marcus300]

I think you got more chance of walking on water but if that's what he wants you to try best to luck to you. It's going to be hell.

[vinny t]

I think you got more chance of walking on water but if that's what he wants you to try best to luck to you. It's going to be hell.

Why do eople say its going to be hell ? How can anyone know how its going to be like if they have never been in that situation themselves ?

I stopped trt 6 months ago i feel no different at all i train 5 days weight training do cardio 3 days a week i have lost no strength , size or weight , i have lots of energy.
The only thing i have noticed since about 2 months after stopping trt is my libido diminishing then 5 months since stopping trt my libido completely non existent and now i have no seminal fluid at all no ejaculate flluid.
Obviously the way i feel might get worse but i will have to see as i have no choice .

I doubt myself i will recover as i was already diagnosed primary hypogonasism 4 years ago by a different endo, but my new endo is refusing to put me back n trt because of some high hematocrit issues i had but thats been sorted as i get blood draws as and when needed from the hospital, but my endo is still refusing me back on trt and wants to see of i can recover naturally .

[The_Crawfish]

Why do eople say its going to be hell ? How can anyone know how its going to be like if they have never been in that situation themselves ?

I stopped trt 6 months ago i feel no different at all i train 5 days weight training do cardio 3 days a week i have lost no strength , size or weight , i have lots of energy.
The only thing i have noticed since about 2 months after stopping trt is my libido diminishing then 5 months since stopping trt my libido completely non existent and now i have no seminal fluid at all no ejaculate flluid.
Obviously the way i feel might get worse but i will have to see as i have no choice .

I doubt myself i will recover as i was already diagnosed primary hypogonasism 4 years ago by a different endo, but my new endo is refusing to put me back n trt because of some high hematocrit issues i had but thats been sorted as i get blood draws as and when needed from the hospital, but my endo is still refusing me back on trt and wants to see of i can recover naturally .

That ain't hell to you?? Haha
That's like me saying I got in a bad car wreck, but I'm fine...other than the fact I lost one arm, one leg, can't see out of one eye and I'm blind in the other...sounds like hell to me, but then again I've never been there.

[vinny t]

Here is my background, 4 years ago i was diagnosed primary hypogonadism due o steroid use .I was put on TRT and i had regular blood tests full blood count, liver profile , PSA .

In january this year routine bloods come back showing high red blood cells haemaglobin , hematocrit were well above range basically my blood wa too thick, i was referred to a blood specialist who told me to stop TRT go into the hospital every week to give blood untill my hematocrit levels came back into range.then when they were back to normal range see an endo who will put me back on TRT with maybe a different application method, reduced dose fequency and to have regulr blood tests monitored and if red blood cells went above range just to give blood as and when necessary to keep in normal range.

Fast forward from jan to now i have given blood regulary my hematocrit levels are in range and i went to see my endo today. I had my bloods done to check my testosterone levels my results were;


testosterone 1.4nmol/l (10.0-37.0
shbg 13 (11-71)
FSH 17(1.0-11.0)
LH 13 (1.0-8.0)
estrogen 60 (20-160

So my testosterone is totally shot at and will have been like this for a while since stopping TRT in JAN 6 months ago.

My eno told me today that he does not want to pUT me back on TRT for the considrable future as he says im sensitive to it and he does not want my red blood cells, hematocrit at reduced dose /frequency or different application method and i would have bloods monitored regulary and give blood at the hospital as and when needed if red blood cells went above range and that this was completely safe and acceptable practice .

My endo said that this was not the way forward he wanted to keep me off TRT and see if i can recover my natural testosterone which i very much doubt will happen as i have been shut down for over 4 years as i have been on TRT since 2010. I said my test levels have not returned since stopping TRT 6 months ago but he says its not long enough and he wants to re test me in 6 months time .

I told him that i felt like crap and that i have no libido no interest in sex and im not even producing any semen when i ejaculate nothing comes out just a few drops of clear fluid, i said i cant stay like this, he said he is not putting me back on we will have to do this because its the way forward and putting me back on TRT and having me give blood to reduce red blood cell count as it was expensive to the NHS.

He said it was all my own fault and self inflicted from my previous steroid use and i needed to be made an example of and went on about peole taking steroids and needing TRT was costing the NHS .I argued about smokers drinkers people eating fatty foods needing cholesterol lowering drugs etc costing NHS he just said he was not going to put me back on TRT for the foreseeable future.

Now all good and well if i start producing my own natural testosterone but i can see it and im just going to be like this with very low test for i dont know how long , i dont know what to do.

[kelkel]

I doubt myself i will recover as i was already diagnosed primary hypogonasism 4 years ago by a different endo,

If you are legitimately primary then you are wasting your time and your doc's is clueless. If you're primary your testicals won't suddenly decide to work unless you were misdiagnosed initially. A simple HCG stimulation test would have answered this question, but no, your doc wants you to go through all this....

Reminds me of a line from "Grumpy Old Men"......something to the effect of "You can wish in one hand and crap in the other and see which one gets filled up first"

[vinny t]

If you are legitimately primary then you are wasting your time and your doc's is clueless. If you're primary your testicals won't suddenly decide to work unless you were misdiagnosed initially. A simple HCG stimulation test would have answered this question, but no, your doc wants you to go through all this....

Reminds me of a line from "Grumpy Old Men"......something to the effect of "You can wish in one hand and crap in the other and see which one gets filled up first"

How can i get this HCG stimulation test pal ?

[vinny t]

If you are legitimately primary then you are wasting your time and your doc's is clueless. If you're primary your testicals won't suddenly decide to work unless you were misdiagnosed initially. A simple HCG stimulation test would have answered this question, but no, your doc wants you to go through all this....

Reminds me of a line from "Grumpy Old Men"......something to the effect of "You can wish in one hand and crap in the other and see which one gets filled up first"

What the endo is saying that that LH and FSH have only just started rising it could take will take at lot longer than 6 months for natural production to happen giving me more testosterone is just going to defeat the whole object

[kelkel]

What the endo is saying that that LH and FSH have only just started rising it could take will take at lot longer than 6 months for natural production to happen giving me more testosterone is just going to defeat the whole object

Hence the reason for a proper pct to get your system started. Problem is though that you are considered primary. And unless misdiagnosed like I referenced above there is no chance for it to get better. Hopefully you were diagnosed wrong and you can get back to a good natural level. But again, for a doc to do that without serms is ridiculous.

[vinny t]

[QUOTE=kelkel;6893639]If you are legitimately primary then you are wasting your time and your doc's is clueless. If you're primary your testicals won't suddenly decide to work unless you were misdiagnosed initially. A simple HCG stimulation test would have answered this question, but no, your doc wants you to go through all this....

IN 2010 i had been off steroids for 6 months when i had the very low libido symptoms.

I went to see an endo who did blood tests my testosterone levels came back at 1.2 SHBG 33 FSH 26 LH 13

My endo said my testes may be damaged due repeated androgen administation and he said he would re test my bloods @ 2 and 4 months to judge the pattern . i went back in 4 months time and blood tests showed no improvement in test levels so i was put on TRT . I know all this because i have it all in a letter from 2010.

So all in all it had been about 10 months from stopping steroids to starting TRT.

[vinny t]

If you are legitimately primary then you are wasting your time and your doc's is clueless. If you're primary your testicals won't suddenly decide to work unless you were misdiagnosed initially. A simple HCG stimulation test would have answered this question, but no, your doc wants you to go through all this....

Reminds me of a line from "Grumpy Old Men"......something to the effect of "You can wish in one hand and crap in the other and see which one gets filled up first"

IN 2010 i had been off steroids for 6 months when i had the very low libido symptoms.

I went to see an endo who did blood tests my testosterone levels came back at 1.2 SHBG 33 FSH 26 LH 13

My endo said my testes may be damaged due repeated androgen administation and he said he would re test my bloods @ 2 and 4 months to judge the pattern . i went back in 4 months time and blood tests showed no improvement in test levels so i was put on TRT . I know all this because i have it all in a letter from 2010.

So all in all it had been about 10 months from stopping steroids to starting TRT.

[marcus300]

Why do eople say its going to be hell ? How can anyone know how its going to be like if they have never been in that situation themselves ?

I stopped trt 6 months ago i feel no different at all i train 5 days weight training do cardio 3 days a week i have lost no strength , size or weight , i have lots of energy.
The only thing i have noticed since about 2 months after stopping trt is my libido diminishing then 5 months since stopping trt my libido completely non existent and now i have no seminal fluid at all no ejaculate flluid.
Obviously the way i feel might get worse but i will have to see as i have no choice .

I doubt myself i will recover as i was already diagnosed primary hypogonasism 4 years ago by a different endo, but my new endo is refusing to put me back n trt because of some high hematocrit issues i had but thats been sorted as i get blood draws as and when needed from the hospital, but my endo is still refusing me back on trt and wants to see of i can recover naturally .

You was put on trt for a reason why stop now and try and recovery your natural test, kind of backward healthcare.

For most and that includes myself going through low T was pure hell on a daily basis, if you feel fine your one lucky guy.

[vinny t]

You was put on trt for a reason why stop now and try and recovery your natural test, kind of backward healthcare.

For most and that includes myself going through low T was pure hell on a daily basis, if you feel fine your one lucky guy.

I would not say i feel great just feel normal , i have been on low test for so long i dont know how im meant to feel , if im meant to feel better .

[vinny t]

You was put on trt for a reason why stop now and try and recovery your natural test, kind of backward healthcare.

For most and that includes myself going through low T was pure hell on a daily basis, if you feel fine your one lucky guy.

IN 2010 i had been off steroids for 6 months when i had the very low libido symptoms.

I went to see an endo who did blood tests my testosterone levels came back at 1.2 SHBG 33 FSH 26 LH 13

My endo said my testes may be damaged due repeated androgen administation and he said he would re test my bloods @ 2 and 4 months to judge the pattern . i went back in 4 months time and blood tests showed no improvement in test levels so i was put on TRT . I know all this because i have it all in a letter from 2010.

So all in all it had been about 10 months from stopping steroids to starting TRT.

[vinny t]

I have spoken to my endos secretary today on the phone i asked for a copy of the letter that is going to go out to my gp in connection the endo appointment that i just had , the secretary as emailed me a copy i have eliminated my pefsonal details here is the letter


Division of Diabetes & Endocrinology

Consultant: Dr A Jostel Royal Blackburn Hospital
Secretary: Mrs Anali Cottam Haslingden Road
BLACKBURN
Direct line: 01254 734469 BB2 3HH
Ext: 84469
Fax: 01254 736311

Our Ref: AJ/KB/RXR0719778


30 June 2014

ENDOCRINE CLINIC


Private & confidential
Mr V



Dear M– Dob 31.12.66


Diagnosis:
Anabolic steroid misuse

I saw you in the endocrine clinic today. You have been under the care of my endocrine colleagues off and on since 2009 until March last year. The uncontrolled use of anabolic steroids did result in secondary polycythaemia which was recently rectified with repeated venesections and abstinence from testosterone and anabolic steroid injections. The fact that your haemoglobin did not rise any further, and the fact that your gonadotropin levels have only just risen into double figures, confirm that stopping exogenous testosterone excess is effective in eliminating the side-effect of polycythaemia and there is evidence of a potential for physiological recovery by reactivating your own pituitary gonadal axis.

In order to see the effectiveness of this approach, we need to let at least six months pass and reassess your hormonal profile after that time. The misuse of any anabolic steroids or testosterone in the meantime will jeopardise that natural recovery and will be evident on falling gonadotropin levels.

I will review you again in six months’ time.

Yours sincerely




Dr ANDREAS JOSTEL
Consultant Physician
(Endocrinology/Diabetes/Acute Medicine)
GMC Number: 4342247

[vinny t]

I think you got more chance of walking on water but if that's what he wants you to try best to luck to you. It's going to be hell.

What the endo is saying that that LH and FSH have only just started rising it could take will take at lot longer than 6 months for natural production to happen giving me more testosterone is just going to defeat the whole object

[Times Roman]

you are 46. why would your endo want you to come off TRT?

....doesn't make any sense?

Planning on (more) kids?

Suggest getting a second opinion. Marcus is right. It's going to be hell........................

[Back In Black]

Did he give you a restart protocol?

[vinny t]

Did he give you a restart protocol?

no RE start protocol just told me to come back in 6 months and have some bloods done just before

[Low Testosterone]

46yrs old, if I read a prior post correctly years of steroid use , been on TRT after that for a good period of time....recovering naturally is highly unlikely.

[vinny t]

46yrs old, if I read a prior post correctly years of steroid use, been on TRT after that for a good period of time....recovering naturally is highly unlikely.

yes you read correctly thats pretty much it pal

[vinny t]

I was diagnosed primary hypogonadism 4 years ag by a different endo , i had all the relevant blood tests etc, but now a different endo and was told if i go on trt its for life , so now this different endo thinks i might be able to recover after 4 years solid trt

[Low Testosterone]

I was diagnosed primary hypogonadism 4 years ag by a different endo , i had all the relevant blood tests etc, but now a different endo and was told if i go on trt its for life , so now this different endo thinks i might be able to recover after 4 years solid trt

If you recover naturally I'll buy you a bucket of Tren and we can both go on cycle

[The Deadlifting Dog]

Vinny,

If you are primary then that means your testicles don't function well thus you will not recover.

[vinny t]

Vinny,

If you are primary then that means your testicles don't function well thus you will not recover.

So why cant my endo see this ?

[BallSak]

So why cant my endo see this ?

Because he is a complete dumbass

[kelkel]

So why cant my endo see this ?

The title Endo does not mean they know hormones. Diabetes, metabolic diseases sure. Hormones not necessarily.

Because he is a complete dumbass

And this...^^^

Vinny google HCG Stimulation Test and speak to your doctor about it. It will determine whether your boys respond to stimulation or not and put an end to this fiasco one way or the other.

[vinny t]

Maybe he thinks i was previously wrongly diagnosed by different endo but sying that the other endo was from the same hospital and department so they must have swapped notes

[BallSak]

The fact that your LH and FSH are both way above range and your Testosterone is way below range....is a pretty solid indication that you are primary. You need to kick that cvnt to the curb and find a good doc.

Sorry for the language, I've been reading Marcus Diary too much lately...

[vinny t]

The fact that your LH and FSH are both way above range and your Testosterone is way below range....is a pretty solid indication that you are primary. You need to kick that cvnt to the curb and find a good doc.

Sorry for the language, I've been reading Marcus Diary too much lately...

What the endo is saying that that LH and FSH have only just started rising it could take will take at lot longer than 6 months for natural production to happen giving me more testosterone is just going to defeat the whole object

[vinny t]

The fact that your LH and FSH are both way above range and your Testosterone is way below range....is a pretty solid indication that you are primary. You need to kick that cvnt to the curb and find a good doc.

Sorry for the language, I've been reading Marcus Diary too much lately...

IN 2010 i had been off steroids for 6 months when i had the very low libido symptoms.

I went to see an endo who did blood tests my testosterone levels came back at 1.2 SHBG 33 FSH 26 LH 13

My endo said my testes may be damaged due repeated androgen administation and he said he would re test my bloods @ 2 and 4 months to judge the pattern . i went back in 4 months time and blood tests showed no improvement in test levels so i was put on TRT . I know all this because i have it all in a letter from 2010.

So all in all it had been about 10 months from stopping steroids to starting TRT.

[vinny t]

[vinny t]

What the endo is saying that that LH and FSH have only just started rising it could take will take at lot longer than 6 months for natural production to happen giving me more testosterone is just going to defeat the whole object

[davesah1]

all that schooling and studying and they don't understand this shit. Boggles the mind.

you DO have a choice tho. There are other methods for obtaining extra curriculars. Good luck dude.

[kelkel]

It's what your doc should have done first before you were put through this. The stim test would have let you know if your boys would respond or not and you would not have had to go through all this. Time won't fix it if it's dysfunctional.

[vinny t]

It's what your doc should have done first before you were put through this. The stim test would have let you know if your boys would respond or not and you would not have had to go through all this. Time won't fix it if it's dysfunctional.

What is this stim test ? Is it done by uk doctors?

[kelkel]

It's simply short term use of HCG in larger doses to see if your testicals respond.

[bass]

recover to what? what were your levels prior to TRT?

[vinny t]

recover to what? what were your levels prior to TRT?

1.2 nmol/l

[bass]

1.2 nmol/l

is that your total or free T?