Advice?

[IronClydes]

Hey everyone. I'm 230, 6 foot, about 15% body fat, and on my 8th month using test. I started at 200/week split into 100/twice weekly into my glute. I did this my first 3 months, then went to 300/weekly, now I'm at 500/week. I get 200 in one deltoid on Wednesdays, then 300 into the other on Saturdays. I never used any anti-e or other gear this entire time; however, about 3 weeks ago my face and hair became extra oily, even after showers, my wife noticed my hair thinning in areas, and I was experiencing nausea and vertigo. A former coach instructed me to take Anastrozole every 2 days until I felt better.

I now am better, but wonder if this means my test dosage is too high?

Also, do I need to always take an anti-e regularly? Or only in such instances side effects present?

On a final note, I am looking to get my test level checked soon, what is an ideal level to be at for a 33 year old bulking bodybuilder, healthily?

Any other advice is highly welcomed. I use 23 gauge 1/2" needles in deltoids, one in each per week, 2 injections total per week, totaling 500mg/weekly.

I started TRT in January after blood testing showed 3 consecutive low test readings: 180, 140, and 230. I once stopped treatment for 3.5 weeks and it was 84.

The form of test I use is testosterone cyponate. 200 mg weekly from my physician, 300 mg weekly on my own mid-week, imported.

Thanks!

[xcraider37]

Hey everyone. I'm 230, 6 foot, about 15% body fat, and on my 8th month using test. I started at 200/week split into 100/twice weekly into my glute. I did this my first 3 months, then went to 300/weekly, now I'm at 500/week. I get 200 in one deltoid on Wednesdays, then 300 into the other on Saturdays. I never used any anti-e or other gear this entire time; however, about 3 weeks ago my face and hair became extra oily, even after showers, my wife noticed my hair thinning in areas, and I was experiencing nausea and vertigo. A former coach instructed me to take Anastrozole every 2 days until I felt better.

I now am better, but wonder if this means my test dosage is too high?

Also, do I need to always take an anti-e regularly? Or only in such instances side effects present?

On a final note, I am looking to get my test level checked soon, what is an ideal level to be at for a 33 year old bulking bodybuilder, healthily?

Any other advice is highly welcomed. I use 23 gauge 1/2" needles in deltoids, one in each per week, 2 injections total per week, totaling 500mg/weekly.

I started TRT in January after blood testing showed 3 consecutive low test readings: 180, 140, and 230. I once stopped treatment for 3.5 weeks and it was 84.

The form of test I use is testosterone cyponate. 200 mg weekly from my physician, 300 mg weekly on my own mid-week, imported.

Thanks!

Dude 500 mg. of test . cyp is an ongoing cycle not trt, are you sure your posting in the right area? This is the trt forum. Do you have life insurance for your wife and kids. If you do 500 mg long term I expect you to be 6 feet under soon. Harsh reality.

[IronClydes]

I don't understand. New to site. Ignorant of terminology. From my research and limited knowledge, 500 isn't a lot. My previous trainer directed me to do 5-600/weekly. I have no intent to shorten my life. I put my family way over this for sure. If you don't mind, please clarify.

[Chauffeur]

I don't understand. New to site. Ignorant of terminology. From my research and limited knowledge, 500 isn't a lot. My previous trainer directed me to do 5-600/weekly. I have no intent to shorten my life. I put my family way over this for sure. If you don't mind, please clarify.

What he's saying is that 500mg/wk is not a TRT dose, it's a steroid cycle, and is certainly to blame for the side effects that you're experiencing.

Generally speaking, the high end of a TRT dose would be 200mg/wk. Most guys start out at 100mg/wk and increase in small increments if need be.

500mg/wk indefinitely is not a safe way to dose TRT.

[IronClydes]

Thank you for explaining. My TRT is 200 weekly, I'm just supplementing it on my own to meet my trainers recommendations. It is worth noting, however, that 200 weekly still left me at bottom of normal range: around 350 on average.

[kelkel]

The above guys are correct tduff. I've seen it often where someone starts TRT, see's the difference that optimized T levels can do and then begins to up their dose on their own thinking more is better. The point of TRT is to optimize your T levels while keeping all other levels healthy and safe. First and foremost being your estrogen level, which without question is through the roof right now. Elevated estrogen is an extremely unhealthy item. To many guys think if they don't get gyno symptoms then they must be ok. When gyno in reality, is the least of your concerns. Take a moment and read this link:

Dangers of Excess Estrogen in the Aging Male - Life Extension

Hopefully you now see how critical this is. You commented above that you are better now? Because you don't see / feel sides? Did you get full BW? Your former coach is correct that anastrazole will help. But again, without blood work you're guessing exactly what's going on inside you and to what extreme your E has risen. Adex is powerful and not to be taken carelessly. It should be dosed based on T levels. Obviously cycle dosages would require more. TRT less, hopefully none.

You also need to be concerned with your hematocrit levels. Read the following and note the symptoms....

What Are the Signs and Symptoms of Polycythemia Vera? - NHLBI, NIH

In my opinion, I'd get BW pulled asap. There's a good list at the top of this forum in the Finding A Doc Sticky thread if you so choose. You need to know your levels right away. I'd also probably give blood asap. Then I'd drop back to your TRT dose and test BW again in a month or so. You need to settle in and find the correct dose for you based on BW.

All that said, there's nothing wrong with cycling. But you need to figure out what your healthiest and safest TRT dose is first and foremost.

[kelkel]

Thank you for explaining. My TRT is 200 weekly, I'm just supplementing it on my own to meet my trainers recommendations. It is worth noting, however, that 200 weekly still left me at bottom of normal range: around 350 on average.

When was your BW pulled relative to your injection?
And if this is the same trainer that never advised you to take an AI at the start of the cycle then he's clueless and is going to hurt you. Some trainers may be good with the actual "training aspect" but suck with their knowledge of AAS.

[IronClydes]

Thanks for the reality check kelkel. Going back to TRT dosed 200 weekly immediately. Is it safe to drop immediately that much? Or do I need to step down?

[IronClydes]

Made appointment to donate blood tomorrow. Being that I'm I the states, should they discover the high test levels, could there be any fallout? Repercussions of suspected steroid use ?

[IronClydes]

Kelkel,

What blood work should I get?

Total testosterone good enough?

[kelkel]

Kelkel,

What blood work should I get?

Total testosterone good enough?

Hell no, use the second set of BW in the Finding A Doc sticky at the top of this forum. It's important tduff. You have to learn to eliminate or at least mitigate sides when cycling. It's why BW is crucial. Begin to maintain your own copies of BW as well. Knowledge is power here.

[kelkel]

Thanks for the reality check kelkel. Going back to TRT dosed 200 weekly immediately. Is it safe to drop immediately that much? Or do I need to step down?

Totally safe. It will slowly eliminate itself. No need to titrate down.

Made appointment to donate blood tomorrow. Being that I'm I the states, should they discover the high test levels, could there be any fallout? Repercussions of suspected steroid use?

They don't test for that nor do they care. Just when you take the questionnaire you will have to fib a bit to answer some of the questions. Example: Do you inject anything other than what's prescribed by a doctor (or something like that): Obviously you answer "no." The questions will be obvious. You may find an example questionnaire via google....

[IronClydes]

The follow-up labs you list?

That looks like it will cost a lot to get all that done. I'd like to get the blood work as a marker to reflect on where I was before titrating down, but I doubt I can afford these...

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[IronClydes]

Yikes. $682 to get all those tests done in your list. Have an appointment for total test today, can't afford anything else right now unless modest.

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[IronClydes]

This is the quote

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[kelkel]

Take a look at "private md labs" .com for much better pricing. No script required in most states.

[IronClydes]

Take a look at "private md labs" .com for much better pricing. No script required in most states.

KelKel,

Ran those tests through that site and it looks like it'll cost $383 for those tests; much better (thanks!) but, still much more than I can currently afford. They don't seem to have a single panel rate for all of those tests. It was:

Estradiol, Sensitive Test Details $71.49
Testosterone , Free and Weakly Bound Test Details $92.49
Follicle-stimulating Hormone (FSH) and Luteinizing Hormone (LH) Test Details $57.99
Complete Blood Count (CBC) w/ Differential Test Details $47.99
Comprehensive Metabolic Profile (CMP) (includes eGFR)
Lipid Panel Test Details $50.99

I left out the PSA as I'm under 40 (though my Grandpa had Prostate CA) and I left out the IGF's as no GH therapy has been commenced.

I did get my total testosterone completed today for $38, for what that's worth :/

I tried to donate blood today, but they said they couldn't accept me as they required a clear 3" by 3" area without redness to proceed. Unfortunately, both of my arms were red and irritated in the typical blood draw areas of the inner elbow. I wear a uniform for work daily and yesterday was a hot one in long sleeves. It seems I will need to let that clear up first...

How important would you say it is that I get these other (expensive) tests prior to letting the testosterone titrate out of my system? I understand it is a great reference point to reflect on, I can put on credit if really that important...however, my TRT is completely free for me and they will get these numbers checked for me if I request it. I would need to wait until my levels return to normal for 200/weekly so they don't adjust my dosage down on me.

Thanks for your time and help KelKel

[IronClydes]

Hell no, use the second set of BW in the Finding A Doc sticky at the top of this forum. It's important tduff. You have to learn to eliminate or at least mitigate sides when cycling. It's why BW is crucial. Begin to maintain your own copies of BW as well. Knowledge is power here.

KelKel,

This is my TRT (and cycle?) history:

Started TRT on 3/15/14 at 200 mg per week with 100 IU HcG .
Increased weekly dosage on 5/30/14 from 200 to 300 mg per week. No more HcG.
Stopped all testosterone on 6/9/14 for TRT blood testing I was advised was due on 6/30/14.
Started back on 300 mg per week on 7/3/14.
Increased from 300 to 500 per week under guidance of my trainer around 8/1/2014.
I fired my trainer on 9/15/14 due to failure to fulfill terms of our contract (screwed me), but I stayed on his recommended dosage.

*This entire duration I took no anti-estrogen until 9/27/13, after I experienced "seeing stars", vertigo, nausea, and tiredness for several days on end. I was then advised, by a former trainer, to take an Anastrozole .5 mg cap once every 2 days until I felt better, then continue every 3 days. I will be taking my remaining 6 caps for the next 12 days (1 every 2 days) and am stopping all but the TRT prescribed 200 mg weekly effective today. (Should I break that into 100 into each deltoid every 3 days?)


To provide you a historical perspective of the mentioned BW, these are my results over the past year (this took some time to put together, I'm anxious to get your thoughts):

Total Testosterone: 1.4 (1/15/14), 2.8 (2/24/14), 2.2 (2/28/14), 1.5 (6/30/14), 1.0 (7/3/14),
BioAvail (FWBT):
Free Test:
Estradiol:
LH: 4.1 (2/24/14), 2.4 (2/28/14),
FSH: 4.3 2/24/14), 4.7 (2/28/14),
TSH: 1.306 (2/24/14),
PSA: 0.3 (6/30/14),
PROLACTIN: 11.3 (2/24/14), 20.1 (2/28/14),
RBC: 5.05 (8/27/13), 4.93 (1/15/14), 5.06 (2/24/14), 5.45 (6/30/14),
HGB: 14.8 (8/27/13), 14.4 (1/15/14), 14.8 (2/24/14), 16.5 (6/30/14),
HCT: 43.2 (8/27/13), 42.4 (1/15/14), 43.8 (2/24/14), 47.3 (6/30/14),
MCV: 85.5 (8/27/13), 86 (1/15/14), 86.6 (2/24/14), 86.8 (6/30/14),
MCH: 29.3 (8/27/13), 29.2 (1/15/14), 29.2 (2/24/14), 30.3 (6/30/14),
MCHC: 34.3 (8/27/13), 34 (1/15/14), 33.8 (2/24/14), 34.9 (6/30/14),
RDW: 12.9 (8/27/13), 12.9 (1/15/14), 13.3 (2/24/14), 13.1 (6/30/14),
PLT: 220 (8/27/13), 209 (1/15/14), 215 (2/24/14), 209 (6/30/14),
WBC: 7.63 (8/27/13), 8.59 (1/15/14), 6.08 (2/24/14), 6.04 (6/30/14),
LYMPHS: 43.1 (8/27/13), 34.1 (1/15/14), 38.7 (2/24/14), 38.2 (6/30/14),
MONOCYTES: 6.6 (8/27/13), 5 (1/15/14), 6.9 (2/24/14), 7.9
EOSINOPHIL%: 6.6 (8/27/13), 3.8 (1/15/14), 5.6 (2/24/14), 5.6 (6/30/14),
BASOPHIL%: 0.8 (8/27/13), 0.6 (1/15/14), 1.0 (2/24/14), 1.0 (6/30/14),
NEUTROPHIL.%: 42.9 (8/27/13), 56.5 (1/15/14), 47.8 (2/24/14), 47.3 (6/30/14),
NEUTROPHIL#: 3.28 (8/27/13), 4.85 (1/15/14), 2.91 (2/24/14), 2.85 (6/30/14),
LYMPHOCYTE#: 3.29 (8/27/13), 2.93 (1/15/14), 2.35 (2/24/14), 2.31 (6/30/14),
MONOCYTE#: 0.50 (8/27/13), 0.43 (1/15/14), 0.42 (2/24/14), 0.48 (6/30/14),
IMM GRANULOCYTES: 0.1 (8/27/13), 0.2 (1/15/14), 0.2 (2/24/14), 0.2 (6/30/14),
EOSINOPHIL#: 0.50 (8/27/13), 0.33 (1/15/14), 0.34 (2/24/14), 0.34 (6/30/14),
BASOPHIL#: 0.06 (8/27/14), 0.05 (1/15/14), 0.06 (2/24/14), 0.06 (6/30/14),
GLUCOSE: 82 (7/17/13), 82 (1/15/14), 95 (2/24/14), 85 (6/30/14),
BLOOD UREA NITROGEN: 19 (7/17/13), 26 (1/15/14), 28 (2/24/14), 29 (6/30/14),
CREATININE: 1.21 (7/17/13), 1.2 (1/15/14), 1.2 (2/24/14), 1.3 (6/30/14),
SODIUM: 140 (1/15/14), 138 (2/24/14), 135 (6/30/14),
POTASSIUM: 4.0 (1/15/14), 4.2 (2/24/14), 4.5 (6/30/14),
CHLORIDE: 101 (1/15/14), 100 (2/24/14), 99 (6/30/14),
CO2: 30.0 (1/15/14), 30.0 (2/24/13), 30.0 (6/30/14),
CALCIUM: 9.9 (1/15/14), 9.7 (2/24/14), 9.3 (6/30/14),
PROTEIN: 7.05 (7/17/13), 6.8 (2/24/14), 6.8 (6/30/14),
ALBUMIN: 4.3 (1/15/14), 4.80 (7/17/13), 4.5 (2/24/14), 4.3 (6/30/14),
BILIRUBIN: .94 (7/17/13), 1.4 (2/24/14), 1.0 (6/30/14),
ALK PHOSPHATASE: 49 (7/17/13), 45 (2/24/14), 55 (6/30/14),
ALT (SGPT): 32 (7/17/13), 44 (2/24/14), 48 (6/30/14),
AST (SGOT): 34 (7/17/13), 51 (2/24/14), 48 (6/30/14),
ANION GAP: 13 (1/15/14), 12 (2/24/14), 11 (6/30/14),
EGFR-C: 70 (1/15/14), 70 (2/24/14), 64 (6/30/14),
GGT: 19.0 (7/17/13)
GLOBULIN: 2.20 (7/17/13)
CHOLESTEROL: 216 (7/17/13), 234 (8/27/14)
HDL CHOLESTEROL: 46 (7/17/13), 46 (8/27/13)
CHOLESTEROL/HDL RATIO: 4.69 (7/17/13)
TRIGLYCERIDES: 134 (7/17/13), 151 (8/27/13)
LDL CHOLESTEROL: 143.20 (7/17/13), 156 (8/27/14)
PO4: 4.7 (1/15/14)

[kelkel]

How important, well, you'll survive until it clears your system. So...

If you're coming back to your TRT dose only then maybe hold off a while, let your body find homeostasis at your TRT dose and then test with your insurance covering it. Your E level will be coming down as your test drops anyway. Eliminate LH & FSH btw as they will always be tanked on TRT and useless to test them other than maybe the first set of BW after initiating therapy. When you do go for BW consider CBC, CMP, Lipids (if insurance covering it try the VAP Auto Profile which is far more in depth,) Test total and free and Sensitive Estrogen Assay.

Again, if insurance covering I'd include whatever you can from the original list except LH & FSH. And find a way to give blood as soon as possible.

[kelkel]

Whats the range on total testosterone and prolactin please.
Yes, twice per week tends to keep levels more steady and to help mitigate estrogen issues. Think less injected at one time = less spike in E.
Why did you stop HCG ?

[IronClydes]

As a reference point,

I started at 210 pounds and am now 230. Over the course of just 6-7 months I did what I have been unable to accomplish in 15 years of lifting and look my best ever. Can't tell you how many times a day people comment on my muscle growth. I hope to avoid any muscle loss as I drop my dosage from 500 to 200. I intend to maintain the intensity, volume, and diet I train at.

Thanks and I look forward to your review and insight on my historical results.

Terry

[IronClydes]

I stopped HcG because it was expensive. When I started the TRT program, I did so through increasemyt.com. They had me on a bundle of 200 test cyp, 1000 HcG, and the Anastrozole they instructed me not to take unless I experience tingling nipples. Once my stock had run out, I transferred my care to the VA as I get free healthcare there. The VA is VERY conservative with TRT and does not believe in HcG or the need for anti-e. It took A LOT of pushing to get them to finally support a full dose of 200 weekly. They will never go higher and I am sure they will try to get me to drop down if they can find a reason. I am being treated my an older man who is the Chief of the Endocrinology department, known for being conservative. Can't beat free TRT though!

[IronClydes]

Thanks for the injection guidance. I will split 100 to each every 3 days once they allow me to do at home therapy again. Currently, I am going in weekly for them to inject the full 200 into a shoulder. Until then, I will just have to deal with once weekly, full dose, alternating the shoulder every week. The VA doesn't believe in the need for split dosages. Believe me, I have tried to reason for it. Additionally, they want to be able to check my blood occasionally at my lowest and highest points of the week, they reason they can't do that if i split doses. Once they allow me to do at home, as they said they would after a period in their clinics doing it, I can split doses. Otherwise, the only way is if I add my own T each week (as I was doing), which we don't want me to do now.

As for the blood work, the doc does things his own way, but I will try to push for the CBC, CMP, Lipids, VAP Auto Profile, Test total and free and Sensitive Estrogen Assay. Since this is through a huge, old, government organization, they are stuck in a certain way of doing things...

I don't see a reference range to my Prolaction; however, Testosterone shows as 2.4-8.3. My doctor said he's like to see me around 5...I would really prefer more than that though! Once he get's me where he wants me, I will add a bit and see what happens maybe, but those tests will need to come out of my pocket.

Terry

[IronClydes]

Found it!

2.1-17.7 for the Prolactin.

Terry

[IronClydes]

Been looking into the website more as I am completely new to it. Looking at this site's steroid profile on Testosterone Cypionate , it appears as though the ideal performance dose is 400-600 weekly. Why is there so much concern about me at 500? Sorry if I come off completely ignorant, but, for the most part, I am. I have relied on my trainer's for guidance throughout my dosing.

I want to keep building, but I don't want to be stupid about neglect my well-being. Throughout middle school, high school, the military, and college, I had great difficulty growing muscle despite solid, devout, and disciplined training. I have always ate better than most and trained harder and smarter than many. It wasn't until I got on testosterone that I FINALLY began showing the fruits of all that hard work. I don't want to surrender this unless there is no way to proceed without uncompromising my health. I have a wife and kids that depend on me (and yes, xcraider37, I do have a good life insurance policy, but I'd like to stick around lol).

I know you advised I drop to my TRT dosage of 200, well under the recommended performance range, but once we get the numbers from that and see where I stand, what can I do to get back on track growing healthily?

Thanks for your time!

[kelkel]

As a reference point,

I started at 210 pounds and am now 230. Over the course of just 6-7 months I did what I have been unable to accomplish in 15 years of lifting and look my best ever. Can't tell you how many times a day people comment on my muscle growth. I hope to avoid any muscle loss as I drop my dosage from 500 to 200. I intend to maintain the intensity, volume, and diet I train at.

Thanks and I look forward to your review and insight on my historical results.

Terry

I'll only ask about what I consider relevant. Yes, your T is low. I'm curious:

What your cycles looked like prior to this?
Was any PCT involved?

I stopped HcG because it was expensive. When I started the TRT program, I did so through increasemyt.com. They had me on a bundle of 200 test cyp, 1000 HcG, and the Anastrozole they instructed me not to take unless I experience tingling nipples. Once my stock had run out, I transferred my care to the VA as I get free healthcare there. The VA is VERY conservative with TRT and does not believe in HcG or the need for anti-e. It took A LOT of pushing to get them to finally support a full dose of 200 weekly. They will never go higher and I am sure they will try to get me to drop down if they can find a reason. I am being treated my an older man who is the Chief of the Endocrinology department, known for being conservative. Can't beat free TRT though!

Most clinics don't really have your best interest in mind. It's a business after all and they want profit. And no offense to Endo's or Uro's but those titles don't mean they know hormones. Not believing in HCG is still very prevalent and old school dogma. Many HCG package inserts actually have "For Hypogonadic Hypogonadism" right on them. There are also on-line pharmacies that offer HCG at very reasonable prices. Guys here can direct you. When it comes to an AI, they probably are over-used due to TRT regimens being dosed to high. Not pointing a finger here it's just a simple fact. TRT is about balance, not pushing the limits and mitigating the sides. That's what cycling is for! But, I understand.

Thanks for the injection guidance. I will split 100 to each every 3 days once they allow me to do at home therapy again. Currently, I am going in weekly for them to inject the full 200 into a shoulder. Until then, I will just have to deal with once weekly, full dose, alternating the shoulder every week. The VA doesn't believe in the need for split dosages. Believe me, I have tried to reason for it. Additionally, they want to be able to check my blood occasionally at my lowest and highest points of the week, they reason they can't do that if i split doses. Once they allow me to do at home, as they said they would after a period in their clinics doing it, I can split doses. Otherwise, the only way is if I add my own T each week (as I was doing), which we don't want me to do now.

As for the blood work, the doc does things his own way, but I will try to push for the CBC, CMP, Lipids, VAP Auto Profile, Test total and free and Sensitive Estrogen Assay. Since this is through a huge, old, government organization, they are stuck in a certain way of doing things...

I don't see a reference range to my Prolaction; however, Testosterone shows as 2.4-8.3. My doctor said he's like to see me around 5...I would really prefer more than that though! Once he get's me where he wants me, I will add a bit and see what happens maybe, but those tests will need to come out of my pocket.

Terry

Ok, keep in mind your TRT needs to be totally about balance and keeping you healthy LONG TERM. Cycles, as stated above are a different animal. Don't confuse the two. Also, worry about your Free T level, not your Total T level. Total is irrelevant.

Found it!

2.1-17.7 for the Prolactin.

Terry

Based on those high levels I'd be requesting an MRI to check for pituitary abnormalities (adenomas) of which one effect is elevated prolactin, thus tanked endogenous test production. I'm the proud owner of a Pituitary tumor myself.

Been looking into the website more as I am completely new to it. Looking at this site's steroid profile on Testosterone Cypionate , it appears as though the ideal performance dose is 400-600 weekly. Why is there so much concern about me at 500? Sorry if I come off completely ignorant, but, for the most part, I am. I have relied on my trainer's for guidance throughout my dosing.

I want to keep building, but I don't want to be stupid about neglect my well-being. Throughout middle school, high school, the military, and college, I had great difficulty growing muscle despite solid, devout, and disciplined training. I have always ate better than most and trained harder and smarter than many. It wasn't until I got on testosterone that I FINALLY began showing the fruits of all that hard work. I don't want to surrender this unless there is no way to proceed without uncompromising my health. I have a wife and kids that depend on me (and yes, xcraider37, I do have a good life insurance policy, but I'd like to stick around lol).

I know you advised I drop to my TRT dosage of 200, well under the recommended performance range, but once we get the numbers from that and see where I stand, what can I do to get back on track growing healthily?

Thanks for your time!

It's common sense for you health. Yes that's a recommended cycle dosage. Key word being "cycle." It's not TRT. A normal cycle with a long ester lasts 12 maybe 14 weeks or so. Then you'd either come off and go through pct or if on TRT just go back to your normal dosage. Yes, if BW if monitored meticulously guys can stay at higher levels much longer but there's a risk / reward to all this as I referenced I believe in my first post.

Plus, dropping back to your TRT dose will give your body a much needed rest (think Central Nervous System.) You will not lose much if any as long as training and nutrition are on point. Especially at your TRT dose. There is no doubt in my mind that you (anyone, really) can make substantial gains on 200mgs per week. If not then their nutrition and training is inadequate. Remember, steroids don't make great body builders, training and nutrition do. If it were just steroids, everyone would be Arnold....

Come back to your TRT dose and make sure your healthy via BW. Give your body some much needed rest and then when ready, plan and implement a cycle if you so choose with the proper safeguards.

[Lifted1]

if and when you check your bloods on your own again just check total, free t (its the one that really matters) and e2 sensitive. you should still make nice gains @ 200mg/wk. I would suggest finding some hcg and incorporate 500iu/wk in your protocol.

[IronClydes]

This was my MRI. All normal!

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[IronClydes]

KelKel,

No PCT was involved.

I did no cycles. Only what I laid out already (I hadn't known i was supposed to cycle):

Started TRT on 3/15/14 at 200 mg per week with 1000 IU HcG .
Increased weekly dosage on 5/30/14 from 200 to 300 mg per week. No more HcG.
Stopped all testosterone on 6/9/14 for TRT blood testing I was advised was due on 6/30/14.
Started back on 300 mg per week on 7/3/14.
Increased from 300 to 500 per week under guidance of my trainer around 8/1/2014.
I fired my trainer on 9/15/14 due to failure to fulfill terms of our contract (screwed me), but I stayed on his recommended dosage.

So, I guess you could say I got that 3 week break in there. Otherwise, no PCT or cycling done.

Since you recommend HcG and indicate that it can be attained cheaply online, would you recommend I consider incorporating this asap as well? If so, can someone point me to a cost-effective and quality source to order from?

MRI was already completed and indicated a normal Sella. Sorry to hear about your tumor!

Thanks for all the advice. I'll look to get bloodwork done in 3-4 weeks being on only 200 weekly. Once everything looks normal and good, I will start cycling at a 400 for 12, then back to 200 (equal time? 12 weeks as well?).

Just to make sure I am fully getting this, when on a cycle above my normal TRT dosages, I should be on an anti-e; however, during normal trt dosage, no anti-e required, correct?

Also, I know I already asked, but should I get back on HcG 500-1000 iu weekly again? (split twice a week into ab fat as before i assume).

[IronClydes]

Thanks Lifted1

Any good sources you recommend for it cost effectively and quality wise?

[IronClydes]

Found a blood test panel from them that has most of what you specified KelKel, and all of what lifted1 advised. Still much more than I should spend in our budget; however, if you think this something important that I would regret not getting I can make it work. Please let me know.

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[kelkel]

KelKel,

No PCT was involved.

I did no cycles. Only what I laid out already (I hadn't known i was supposed to cycle):

Started TRT on 3/15/14 at 200 mg per week with 1000 IU HcG .
Increased weekly dosage on 5/30/14 from 200 to 300 mg per week. No more HcG.
Stopped all testosterone on 6/9/14 for TRT blood testing I was advised was due on 6/30/14.
Started back on 300 mg per week on 7/3/14.
Increased from 300 to 500 per week under guidance of my trainer around 8/1/2014.
I fired my trainer on 9/15/14 due to failure to fulfill terms of our contract (screwed me), but I stayed on his recommended dosage.

So, I guess you could say I got that 3 week break in there. Otherwise, no PCT or cycling done.

Since you recommend HcG and indicate that it can be attained cheaply online, would you recommend I consider incorporating this asap as well? If so, can someone point me to a cost-effective and quality source to order from?

MRI was already completed and indicated a normal Sella. Sorry to hear about your tumor!

Thanks for all the advice. I'll look to get bloodwork done in 3-4 weeks being on only 200 weekly. Once everything looks normal and good, I will start cycling at a 400 for 12, then back to 200 (equal time? 12 weeks as well?).

Just to make sure I am fully getting this, when on a cycle above my normal TRT dosages, I should be on an anti-e; however, during normal trt dosage, no anti-e required, correct?

Also, I know I already asked, but should I get back on HcG 500-1000 iu weekly again? (split twice a week into ab fat as before i assume).

Ok, for some reason I was under the impression you had cycled in the past.
So, your doc never did find the causative factor for you low T?
Still curious why prolactin is so high.
HCG should be part of a solid TRT program. Google Crislers paper on HCG or Nelson Vergel's. Also read the sticky at the top of this forum as well. 250 iu's twice per week is fine. Either SQ or IM, doesn't matter. Can even be in the same syringe as your test. Especially if on a twice per week protocol (hint.)
Tumor's no big deal. Not fun news to get, but it happens. Did shut me down to a 59 T level though. But no worries.
Wait a month for your BW if through your doc and insurance. You need to know how you are when on TRT only. Specifically to learn if you need an AI as some do and how your RBC's are. Pulling blood on cycle is always a great learning tool to see how your body reacts.
Always an AI on cycle. Just because you don't see sides doesn't mean they aren't there internally. As stated, BW determines if you need one on TRT. At 200mg odds are you will.
On the AAS Q & A Forum read Austinites Educational Articles Database. Specifically the "Successful First Cycle" thread. Read the rest too. Good stuff there.

Also, pick up Nelson Vergel's book "Testosterone A Man's Guide" or Abraham Mortantalers "Testosterone for Life" as they will help you greatly. Good reads.

[Lifted1]

after running a cycle dose for a long period of time you might want to do full bw like kel suggested. then when everything settles in at your trt dose (4 weeks) you can just pull the basics that i suggested to monitor how you're doing. I use personal labs .com and its about $150 for the basic blood work.

i get my hcg as a prescription from my doctor, but a google search will turn up some online resources that have it. i would suggest 250ius every 3.5 days for a total of 500iu/wk. you can inject hcg with your test in the same syringe (thanks Kel!), day before or the day after test on its own...whatever works best for you.

[IronClydes]

No, doc just gave it the generic label for low t....hypogonadism I believe? No cause found.

Thanks guys for all the help. You have no idea. I stumbled onto a gem finding this app on my phone. Guess you could say it may have saved me A LOT of grief, if not my life.

Many thanks and I am in your debt kelkel for so much help and info!

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[kelkel]

No worries. Just update this thread with your progress please. We all learn from these things.

And stick around tduff.

Read-learn-contribute. Pay it forward.

[IronClydes]

Will do. Any idea why i am unable to create my profile or view others?

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[Chicagotarsier]

I have naturaly high prolactin also Kel. 3 x normal range with no cycles and stayed the exact same on cycle. No idea why either.

Still curious why prolactin is so high.

.

[kelkel]

You've been MIA. Everything alright?

[IronClydes]

Decided to make the tests happen. Dug into my emergency fund to do it. Getting this one done tomorrow morning after a 12 hour fast. Would have today, but I already ate.

Will then try to donate blood afterwards tomorrow as well.

Thanks again.

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[IronClydes]

I'll share all results as they present. I anticipate getting the results of the total testosterone bw from yesterday by tomorrow. I'll have two of those now.

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