Self bleed not working so well.

[< <Samson> >]

Vacuum it is

Srsly, am I the only one who feels like a walking science experiment?

[jasondd1]

Just gave blood today after giving blood 2 weeks ago and self bleeding about 5 ounces last week. My homglobin was 19.6. I think I might try self bleeding in 2 weeks, then wait 2 weeks and do it again, and then 2 more weeks and I'll be qualified for a double red.

[bass]

this should bring your level down to upper normal range. but yea keep giving until you're in good healthy level. drink lots of water, sometimes high hemoglobin is caused by dehydration. hematocrit is what you need to keep an eye on.

[jasondd1]

this should bring your level down to upper normal range. but yea keep giving until you're in good healthy level. drink lots of water, sometimes high hemoglobin is caused by dehydration. hematocrit is what you need to keep an eye on.

This as in today or this as in after i self bleed 2 more times and do double red? because I gave blood 2 weeks ago and it didn't go down any from then.

[bass]

that's odd! mine goes way down after I donate. again elevated hemoglobin could be caused by dehydration, so its not a good indicator. hematocrit is what you need to monitor.

[jasondd1]

that's odd! mine goes way down after I donate. again elevated hemoglobin could be caused by dehydration, so its not a good indicator. hematocrit is what you need to monitor.

I was way hydrated. I drank water all day. 200 ounces or so.

I thought hematoctrit was just hemo mulitplied by 3? So 19.6 hemo equals roughly 59% hematocrit? Is this not right?

[bass]

not sure how they figure hematocrit, but hydration needs to be on consistent basis to make a difference. 59% is awfully high, did you calculate this on your own or did a test for it?

[jasondd1]

not sure how they figure hematocrit, but hydration needs to be on consistent basis to make a difference. 59% is awfully high, did you calculate this on your own or did a test for it?

Like i said Ive read that hematocrit is hemo times 3. If that is correct that's how i got that number. 19.6 x 3 is 58.8. My doc doesn't concern himself with high hematocrit numbers. He says its not dangerous. I obviously disagree. If I remember right kelkel is the one that mentioned the x3 thing. Maybe he will chime in.

[bass]

according to my BW its not correct. all my tests vary, one is showing hemo at 16.7 and hema at 48.1. I used your calculation and my hema comes to 50.1, this is based on taking 16.7 multiply by 3. not correct! maybe Kel meant roughly! to be honest at 59% I think your blood won't even flow through the small veins. I bet its allot less than you think.

[jasondd1]

I think its a general rule maybe. the last time by hemo was 19 my hema was 56.5. Other blood work seems to follow suit. So I'm guessing I'm around 57-58 hema

[Bonaparte]

Yes, hematocrit is often estimated (even on rapid bloodwork) as hemoglobin X3. But the actual value will vary based on how well formed your RBC's are and whether they contain the ideal amount of iron on average. Getting an actual hematocrit reading requires a centrifuge and a bit of labor, whereas hemoglobin can be read instantly by machine (like a blood sugar assay).

[jasondd1]

Ok I finally got it to work after getting the right tubing and a manual blood pressure cuff. I screwed up at first and thought bass meant to blow into it to equalize pressure and quickly realized he meant suck. It's a good thing i did it because I literally had to suck the blood out. I would suck and the blood would trickle, without sucking it would of clotted like before. Thanks all

[jasondd1]

Question for Bass. I always assumed watching your video that your tubing went over the 18 gauge needle so I have been searching for a .25 inch ID tube and finally found some at home depot. However it looked like you were using a smaller id tube and putting it inside the 18 gauge needle. Which is it? Does it matter? Does one work better?

[bass]

5/32" od

[jasondd1]

Ok found some 5/32 od tubing on amazon and it did work. I cant fill a full 700 ml bottle but i get around 550 before it just stops coming out even with reverse pressure and adjusting the cuff tighter or looser. It worked just about as well as the thicker id tubing that I used that fit over the needle and not inside. The sticking yourself part is exactly the easiest part. It takes almost know pressure to break the skin to the vain.

[bass]

glad it worked for you Jason, once your blood gos back to normal viscosity you should be able to fill the whole bottle. what size needle did you use?

[jasondd1]

glad it worked for you Jason, once your blood gos back to normal viscosity you should be able to fill the whole bottle. what size needle did you use?

18 gauge. It quit at he same spot each time I did it with bigger od tubing over needle or smaller od(5/32) inside needle opening. It flowed steady each time and I had my cuff on tight and giving negative pressure with 2nd tube. Once it started to just dribble out I changed the cuff to tighter then looser but it just stopped. Once i pulled the needle out I didn't really bleed either, maybe a drop.

Once it goes back to normal viscosity Im just going to give blood either every 4 or 8 weeks and switch between blood places if i have to. I quit my multivitamin with extra iron, and tb500 and cut back on peptides. Hopefully all of these together will keep me under 51 or so hemotacrit.

[ppwc1985]

18 gauge. It quit at he same spot each time I did it with bigger od tubing over needle or smaller od(5/32) inside needle opening. It flowed steady each time and I had my cuff on tight and giving negative pressure with 2nd tube. Once it started to just dribble out I changed the cuff to tighter then looser but it just stopped. Once i pulled the needle out I didn't really bleed either, maybe a drop. Once it goes back to normal viscosity Im just going to give blood either every 4 or 8 weeks and switch between blood places if i have to. I quit my multivitamin with extra iron, and tb500 and cut back on peptides. Hopefully all of these together will keep me under 51 or so hemotacrit.

Its a very delicate process, sometimes I stick needle in to much and sometimes not enough. I don't even use BP cuff anymore. I just bough one off the big rubber straps the blood places use. 18 ga also. Just this last time we found that I was using a rubber ball to pump my hand, like a stress ball and when I stopped blood started coming out faster. If I move a certain way it will stop till I move back to original position. It's s learning experience. But really no problems anymore. If we mess up, we just try again the next day.

[bass]

18 gauge. It quit at he same spot each time I did it with bigger od tubing over needle or smaller od(5/32) inside needle opening. It flowed steady each time and I had my cuff on tight and giving negative pressure with 2nd tube. Once it started to just dribble out I changed the cuff to tighter then looser but it just stopped. Once i pulled the needle out I didn't really bleed either, maybe a drop.

Once it goes back to normal viscosity Im just going to give blood either every 4 or 8 weeks and switch between blood places if i have to. I quit my multivitamin with extra iron, and tb500 and cut back on peptides. Hopefully all of these together will keep me under 51 or so hemotacrit.

Its a very delicate process, sometimes I stick needle in to much and sometimes not enough. I don't even use BP cuff anymore. I just bough one off the big rubber straps the blood places use. 18 ga also. Just this last time we found that I was using a rubber ball to pump my hand, like a stress ball and when I stopped blood started coming out faster. If I move a certain way it will stop till I move back to original position. It's s learning experience. But really no problems anymore. If we mess up, we just try again the next day.

yup, this happens to me too. one thing i forgot to mention that i take couple of baby aspirin a day before to help thin the blood a little. something to consider.

[lovbyts]

You guys who do self bleed are fvckn crazy.... LOL

[OingoBoingo]

I would love to give it a try, but it's hard to find someone to keep an eye on me when doing so.

[jasondd1]

It's not nearly as hard as it sounds. IM injections are more intricate. And I do it alone. Bass has helped me a bunch. I actually bet it would be even easier if my blood wasn't so thick. 56-60 hematocrit makes it challenging

[ppwc1985]

You guys who do self bleed are fvckn crazy.... LOL

Ithought the same thing before I didn't have much of a choice. It is still crazy though.

[jasondd1]

Ok so after 3 blood draws on my own in 6 weeks I went to give blood today. My Hemo was 16.8 translated to roughly 50.4 hematocrit, the lowest it's been almost since I started TRT. I'm scheduled to give double reds in 2 weeks. I'm guessing my hemo will be around 16 when they test and the double reds might knock it down to 14-15. After that I think I''l just give blood every 8 weeks and be done assuming that keeps it in check which I bet it does.

[bass]

^^^ good deal! glad it's working, and donating every 8 weeks will definitely keep you in good health.

[< <Samson> >]

Yay - it's time for another bleed out

[jasondd1]

^^^ good deal! glad it's working, and donating every 8 weeks will definitely keep you in good health.

Thanks bass your help on this was immeasurable!

[bethdoth]

I went to a specialist today and had to really convince him to write me an order for therapeutic phlebotomy's. Non of my levels RBC, hemoglobin or crit was past the upper level, but all run just below the max. He agreed to write an order for any time I am above hemoglobin of 16 I can go get a phlebotomy... I don't think i could do the self bleeding...so this will work for me. As you can see I have been above 16 for a long time except when I was on blood thinners after surgery.

[NACH3]

yea I thought of something like that but was too much work especially if you're doing this alone, you only have two hands. so putting the one end of tube in the mouth and hold it with teeth frees up hands for other things, like holding the needles in place, and the other squeeze to get blood moving.

Bump

Hey Bass,

I've recently watched your video... Self explanatory... But when you say put another tube into your mouth and use negative pressure do blow I into it(like pushing air into a vial b4 drawing?! And how is this hooked up - to the line(vacuum) - or is it extended somehow off of the initial vacuum line?? Or it's separate - but how would this be hooked up(from the mouth to bottle)?? And if lines are hooked together how do you connect the two & where??

I'm ordering my supplies and also have a thread going in the lounge "self blood letting..." I'm using my Cephalic vein as the branch is collapsed due to surgeries/& coma... But 1/2" down My Cephalic vein is bulging lol... But jeep getting denied b/c of draw spot(Red Cross says it has to be still the branch(which us pretty ridiculous after speaking to therapeutic phlebot that's tapped into people's feet hands etc...

Btw - it's not my crit(46) atm but my platelets/monocytes (due to splenectomy) and my RBC and white Ts are elevated most of the time...

Thank you and Your advice would be much appreciated!!

~Nach

[jasondd1]

I'm not bass but Ive done his method 4 times now and kind of have it down. The key is manual blood pressure cup. Got to a medical supply store there like $12. Water bottle with 2 holes drilled in the cap. 2 separate leads into the cap. Suck on one lead, 18 gauge needle on other. Lots of pressure on the blood pressure cup and squeeze something helps as well

Bump

Hey Bass,

I've recently watched your video... Self explanatory... But when you say put another tube into your mouth and use negative pressure do blow I into it(like pushing air into a vial b4 drawing?! And how is this hooked up - to the line(vacuum) - or is it extended somehow off of the initial vacuum line?? Or it's separate - but how would this be hooked up(from the mouth to bottle)?? And if lines are hooked together how do you connect the two & where??

I'm ordering my supplies and also have a thread going in the lounge "self blood letting..." I'm using my Cephalic vein as the branch is collapsed due to surgeries/& coma... But 1/2" down My Cephalic vein is bulging lol... But jeep getting denied b/c of draw spot(Red Cross says it has to be still the branch(which us pretty ridiculous after speaking to therapeutic phlebot that's tapped into people's feet hands etc...

Btw - it's not my crit(46) atm but my platelets/monocytes (due to splenectomy) and my RBC and white Ts are elevated most of the time...

Thank you and Your advice would be much appreciated!!

~Nach

[jasondd1]

I was at 16.8 and happy as hell. I was usually 18.5-20.1. I personally don't think a Phlebotomy is necessary for 16. Is blood donation an option? My numbers were where yours are before hrt. I really don't think it's necessary or even noticeable to have therapeutic withdrawals with a hemo of 16 but to each his own.

I went to a specialist today and had to really convince him to write me an order for therapeutic phlebotomy's. Non of my levels RBC, hemoglobin or crit was past the upper level, but all run just below the max. He agreed to write an order for any time I am above hemoglobin of 16 I can go get a phlebotomy... I don't think i could do the self bleeding...so this will work for me. As you can see I have been above 16 for a long time except when I was on blood thinners after surgery.

[NACH3]

I'm not bass but Ive done his method 4 times now and kind of have it down. The key is manual blood pressure cup. Got to a medical supply store there like $12. Water bottle with 2 holes drilled in the cap. 2 separate leads into the cap. Suck on one lead, 18 gauge needle on other. Lots of pressure on the blood pressure cup and squeeze something helps as well

Thx much... Just waiting to order the supplies next WMO! Will update when done!

The leads for an 18g spike are 4mm? And I'll need two...