New user and a few questions about my TRT prescription

[RipperAl]

Hello everyone, I've been a lurker for some time and finally signed up recently and this is my first post as I have a few questions and hope to ask more in the near future.

First of all heres my blood work from last month(June 23 - 2015)

https://imgur.com/a/ZtI5h

**Edited after initial post to add this blood work I missed

https://imgur.com/a/1NrZc

I'll be 46 in a few months and about 20 years ago I did use steroids and didn't' know much about PCT etc so I am not sure if this caused me problems but *other* health problems and injuries may have.

I broke my hip in 2000 and two surgeries later and painkillers for about two years and I was walking again and in not too bad of pain. Around 2003/2004 I began working out again and struggled hard, was always tired and did excessive cardio to drop weight I had packed on and eventually I was around 175-178lbs at around 10-12% BF

In the fall of 2013 out of nowhere I was diagnosed with Hepatitis C, we had no idea how this happened and I had bigger thing to worry about then that and needed to be treated, I was successfully treated with a new drug known as Solvaldi and cured! It is now undetectable and has been for over a year.

The treatment was very hard on me, while some say they didn't feel many side effects I felt all of them and after three months I was exhausted and thought I would maybe start feeling normal again but I never did, constantly tired and needed naps and falling asleep after dinner and pissing off the wife. Sex was very bad and it seemed the only time it would happen was after a couple of drinks and even then it ended quick, I either just didn't feel at all like it despite having a beautiful wife or I just couldn't keep it hard.

Fast forward to this year and I began training again in my garage mainly doing a 5X5 workout and have been consistent, squats are close to 300 and deadlift around 220 and bench around 150(injury to shoulder), making progress but I am always *very* tired and exhausted where I could easily do these workouts in the past and then go ride mountain bike for an hour more and still have some in the tank that night.

I just felt like shit so I told my doctor and also complained about my memory and concentration as I do computer and programming work, he blew it off and did a blood test for Total T and told me I was fine, not once but twice...the Hepatitis was actually noticed during one of these blood tests.

So realizing my doctor wasn't helping I went to a Life Extension/BHRT doctor locally who had wrote a book and so I read that, and as well have read up on this for the past year and decided I may need TRT to help with my symptoms, also for reference the last 7 years I was on Oxycodone for joint and hip pain but I stopped it cold turkey earlier this year.

I have now been prescribed Testosterone Cypionate 100mg - 1 injection per week as well as DHEA 25mg once per day.

I do NOT have any plans for children and have never wanted them but I did ask about HCG and was told I could have it if needed but they did not think I needed, do I need this? I realize my testicles will shrink and *might* get painful, or so I read BUT what I want to know will this make me feel even better?

In 8 weeks I go get blood taken again and go for a followup, any other questions you need to ask feel free and any advice for a total newb to TRT would be appreciated. I am confused if I need or want HCG in conjunction with the Cypionate , any downsides or is it all good?


Also, I was given 18G - 1 1/2 to draw with and then 23G - 1 1/2 to inject and in the past I have injected into my delts about three fingers down from the bone, is this safe with these lengths in the delt? I don't have a lot of experience with pinning myself in my buttocks or quad though I *think* I might be able to do it that way also...haven't done injections in at least 20 years but just want to confirm these are fine for delts also and if not, whats a better method?

Thanks for any help, suggestions or tips for the newbie ;-)

[Juced_porkchop]

you dont need hcg . i dont bother with it anymore and am on hrt. if you want to try have kides then maybe a hcg / cliomid run is an option and if the size bothers you for some reason down the line you can. but you dont need it no.
and yes mine are very small but i dont care im big else where and am down for sex 99% of the time so i dont stress over it.

[APIs]

Welcome. I'm a couple years older than you. 100 mgs a week is a pretty standard starting dose so that's a good sign you have a decent Doc. See what your bloods say after the 8 weeks, but make sure you discuss how you actually feel with your Doc. If you're still feeling sluggish, tired etc., then discuss this with him. Also, make sure your Docs tests for Estrogen Sensitive Assay @ the 8 week mark. This will determine if your Estrogen is too high from the Test Cyp. If it's elevated, he may put you on Anastrazole to control it. I personally disagree on the HCG . It's important to keep your testes working whether you want children or not. Plus, many men say they feel better while on HCG. Others will chime in...

PS You're pinning at home correct? If so, you may want to consider splitting the 100 mgs into 2 shots of 50 mgs each per week (i.e. 50 mgs every 3.5 to 4 days). This will give you more consistent Test levels & may help in controlling Estrogen levels. On the other hand, many do one shot per week with no complaints...

[kelkel]

Welcome Ripper. Glad you got a handle on Hep C!

Regarding your Blood Work, only thing I see is your elevated shbg which binds testosterone thus reducing your Free T levels. SHBG and Albumin are what transport your hormones via your blood. You don't want low shbg nor to high, although higher is better than lower overall. SHBG and estrogen can tend to follow each other. The quickest way to reduce shbg is to add testosterone, which you did via TRT. Second would be to optimize your Vitamin D level. If you don't know it, test your level (25-OHD Vit D) asap and supplement based on results. Most in North America are low and it's one of the cheapest, most effective vitamins (actually hormones) out there. It's fat soluble so take it with food and continue to check it periodically.

BTW, your testosterone range on your test is old. A more current range would be Labcorp's 348 - 1197 which puts you barely over the bottom line. When it comes to HCG I'm in the "use it" camp. Personally, I don't want any body part to wither away, let alone my nuts. Take the time and read Crislers HCG Update (google it) as well as the sticky thread at the top of this forum.

18 ga is great to draw with. 23 ga is fine to inject with but in most cases you don't need a 1.5" harpoon. One inch is just fine anywhere. You can buy syringes pretty much anywhere so just do a little homework. You could also go with sub-Q injections if you split your dose in half and injected twice per week. Many here like it. I personally don't but it's a proven method. My favorite syringe is a 27 ga .5 inch.

Welcome to the forum!

[RipperAl]

Thanks everybody for the quick replies and info, really makes a guy feel at ease when he doesn't have to call a clinic and can get answers quickly.

I updated my first post with another link to bloodwork I forgot to add, it was an extra paper in the folder I had and wasn't with the other one.

During my visit they mentioned about Estrogen and said mine was low and I believe the number was 50? They told me for now it was fine but later if I want they would prescribe Arimidex if needed and they also said if I wanted HCG it should not be a problem.

I'm considering it because I always tend to feel my nuts and adjust my package(who doesn't) and if all of a sudden they're pea sized I'll probably feel odd and don't need the wife joking about them ;-)

I am also considering doing *two* 50mg shots as API's mentions as I read a lot of people on here doing that, for now I might just stick with the once a week and if I notice problems or I feel off then I will split the dose up.

Kelkel, thanks for the heads up on the SHBG as I noticed that on the paperwork and it was bold and seemed high, I just didn't know how to interpret it yet and I am working on learning all of this. I currently take 2000IU of Vitamin D3 a day, morning and night but yesterday at the clinic they told me to possibly get tested and for sure in the winter up my Vitamin D to 4000IU per day, testing at their shop is $80 CAD

I was not aware the test range they have is *old*, as I was posting I thought "These guys are gonna say I have LOTS of test" and I feel better knowing I'm "just barely over the bottom line", my regular GP tried to convince me I was fine despite feeling horrible for years and my wife saying over and over "something isn't right"...sheesh I feel better already having the other doctors listen for once and do some tests!

I just did my first injection with the 1.5" "harpoon" into my quad and all went well, I hadn't done it for about 15-20 years now into my quad so I was a bit nervous, didn't realize I could use 1" and will probably change to those, I did see a video mentioning to use 27G so I will see if I can find them and try that the next time.

BTW, why was I given DHEA 25mg once a day? I assume possibly because I feel so shitty and my memory and concentration have gone to shit over the years or perhaps that just part of what they prescribe? It seems its safe at that dose and my only concern is if hair starts falling out lots, not that I have tons to lose but would *hope* to keep some of it for now if possible, haha.

Thanks again guys, really make a guy feel welcome!

[Beethoven]

Welcome aboard, I am also on the use it side of hcg . Although my dose is relatively small, I keep using it because my first Dr didn't know about it either and my testicles did shrink and were aching and tender. HCG fixed that but it can, as in my case raise your estradiol so you have to experiment and find what works for you. You would be hard pressed to find a better site for support and information.

[RipperAl]

Thanks Beethoven for the info, last thing I want is them to be aching and tender and I'm pretty sure the size thing would bother me eventually so I'll call tomorrow and see if they can prescribe it and fax the prescription to the pharmacy, if not I'll have to possibly wait till the 8 week checkup and *hope* its ok to start using it then?

[kelkel]

During my visit they mentioned about Estrogen and said mine was low and I believe the number was 50? They told me for now it was fine but later if I want they would prescribe Arimidex if needed and they also said if I wanted HCG it should not be a problem.

A twice per week protocol will help to eliminate the need for an AI. Think of it this way, less injected at one time equals less conversion to estrogen. No AI is always best if at all possible.

Kelkel, thanks for the heads up on the SHBG as I noticed that on the paperwork and it was bold and seemed high, I just didn't know how to interpret it yet and I am working on learning all of this. I currently take 2000IU of Vitamin D3 a day, morning and night but yesterday at the clinic they told me to possibly get tested and for sure in the winter up my Vitamin D to 4000IU per day, testing at their shop is $80 CAD

High shbg (and albumin) prevents test from becoming free or useful. It's free T that we use so keep that in mind and always test it. With your last BW your total was low and shbg was high. This would indicate a very low free T level. You can have a 10K total T level but if free T is crap, so are you.

I was not aware the test range they have is *old*, as I was posting I thought "These guys are gonna say I have LOTS of test" and I feel better knowing I'm "just barely over the bottom line", my regular GP tried to convince me I was fine despite feeling horrible for years and my wife saying over and over "something isn't right"...sheesh I feel better already having the other doctors listen for once and do some tests

Stick around here, keep reading and learning. The more educated you are the better in this endeavor. Do remember that you are not solely a number so don't get to caught up in them. They're just a guide.

I just did my first injection with the 1.5" "harpoon" into my quad and all went well, I hadn't done it for about 15-20 years now into my quad so I was a bit nervous, didn't realize I could use 1" and will probably change to those, I did see a video mentioning to use 27G so I will see if I can find them and try that the next time.

You can find them. Take a look at spotinjections.com as well as the "How to Inject" link at the top right of this page.

BTW, why was I given DHEA 25mg once a day? I assume possibly because I feel so shitty and my memory and concentration have gone to shit over the years or perhaps that just part of what they prescribe? It seems its safe at that dose and my only concern is if hair starts falling out lots, not that I have tons to lose but would *hope* to keep some of it for now if possible, haha

DHEA, Pregnenolone, etc are part of our cholesterol pathways. Testosterone comes from cholesterol. When you add exogenous test to your system this pathway basically shuts down. Back filling them with supps is always a good idea. Just check BW in the future as well. BTW, if your DHEA isn't micronized it's probably a waste of money as it doesn't pass through the liver well. Read the sticky thread at the top of this forum for info on dhea and preg, etc.

In bold above....

[RipperAl]

Thanks KelKel for the clear and concise answers, appreciated!

[RipperAl]

So I called my doctor back yesterday and mentioned I would like to try HCG with this and she said no problem at all and faxed the prescription and she says to use 0.25ml injections 3 times per week.

I was shown at the pharmacy how to mix the two bottles that came in the package and given 1ml syringes and it seems relatively easy to do but the only thing I am sorta confused about is I've read in many articles and threads that people tend to be doing HCG injections 2 times per week but my doctor has told me to do them three times, will this have any adverse effects?

I was also told to only use this bottle for 30 days after I mix it and keep it refrigerated and as I get close to 30 days the pharmacist said to come grab a new one and discard the old bottle, she said it goes bad and mentioned the 2 vials set I was given is way more than I will use in 1 month.

I did my first injection of the cypionate on Tuesday and I have decided its probably best to switch to the two times a week injections of cypionate and can also start doing the three times a week of HCG but just need to know if something like this is fine for my injection schedule and if not I'd appreciate any advice.

Monday Morning - 0.50 ml Testosterone Cypionate

Thursday Night - 0.50 ml Testosterone Cypionate

Mon,Wed,Fri - HCG 0.25ml


If you think I should be injecting HCG before/after etc let me know, I have read conflicting info and would appreciate any clarification. I read some say the timing of HCG injection doesn't matter and then others say they do so thats why I need to ask.

**HCG I was prescribed is HCG 10000IU 10ML vial(s) made by PPC, luckily again my insurance covered this and the cost was $166.65 CAD but insurance paid $133.32 so having to pay $33.33 is fair with me

Thanks again!

[kelkel]

250 iu's X 3 per week is relatively normal. It's what I do most of the time. Although for simplicity purposes and since you're just starting you may consider twice per week in the same pin as your test. HCG can/will effect your BW (test and estrogen) so it's why I would consider this.

How much bacteriostatic water did they use at the pharmacy. Tell me it wasn't 10 ml?

HCG does not go bad that quickly at all. Which will save you money. Read this link. Even though it relates to cycling the same still applies:

HCG: Why you should use it on-cycle only & how to prepare your hCG for injections

There's also a sticky thread at the top of this forum to read. I use mine for about two months or more but I refill my script earlier than that. Soon you'll have a little stock of HCG which keeps just fine as it's not mixed.

No need to worry about HCG timing on a twice per week test protocol. Timing is only really prudent when injecting test once per week. As stated, try putting it in your same syringe as the test on Monday and Thursday.

[RipperAl]

Thanks again kelkel for the excellent and informative answers. When I got this from the pharmacy it came in a 2 vial box and one had the powder and the other vial is indeed a 10ML bottle, she told me to draw it out with the 10ML syringe she provided and inject into the bottle and then mix it and refrigerate and told me just pull out 0.25 each use.

I'll do like you said and stockpile as it seems rather foolish to just toss it at 30 days if lots still remains in the vial.

Thanks also for the link to Austinites HCG thread, lots of great info and gets me up to speed quickly!

[The_Crawfish]

The stuff that came with your hcg is meant for a one time injection. You should be using bac water to reconstitute.

[kelkel]

Thanks again kelkel for the excellent and informative answers. When I got this from the pharmacy it came in a 2 vial box and one had the powder and the other vial is indeed a 10ML bottle, she told me to draw it out with the 10ML syringe she provided and inject into the bottle and then mix it and refrigerate and told me just pull out 0.25 each use.

I'll do like you said and stockpile as it seems rather foolish to just toss it at 30 days if lots still remains in the vial.

Thanks also for the link to Austinites HCG thread, lots of great info and gets me up to speed quickly!

Follow the mixing instructions from that thread as well. Absolutely unnecessary to use that much water.

The stuff that came with your hcg is meant for a one time injection. You should be using bac water to reconstitute.

Maybe not Crawfish. Mine has always come packaged with a 10 ml bottle of Bact Water.

[RipperAl]

Follow the mixing instructions from that thread as well. Absolutely unnecessary to use that much water.

The pharmacist made it sound as if I used *less* water it would somehow change the potency? Is she talking out her ass or confused?

She told me to make sure to mix all 10ML with the powder and of course I did before I read this message from you but of course the next bottle I can use less water, I assumed like the pharmacist mentioned that this would somehow make it more potent if for example....


If I mix 5ML Bact water with powder and inject 0.25 three times per week, is this a more concentrated hCG than if I had used 10ML of water with the powder? One would think mixing less water with the powder would in turn make the mix more concentrated or stronger or whatever one might call it?

Thanks for any clarification.

Mine has always come packaged with a 10 ml bottle of Bact Water.

Mine also came this way, two vials in a single box and one had the powder and the other vial was 10ML of Bact water

[kelkel]

Less water does make it more concentrated / potent. Then you inject less which is far more convenient. Just follow the link provided and you'll be fine.

[Beethoven]

Less water does make it more concentrated / potent. Then you inject less which is far more convenient. Just follow the link provided and you'll be fine.

I mix it with 2 ml of bac water. Follow the instructions in the sticky and it's real easy. Less amount of liquid to inject which is a good thing.

[j2048b]

i always go 10 for 10, if its a 10 ml vial of hcg , then i put in 10 ml of bac water because im dumb with math and these slin pins so 25=250 iu's and so on...

[kelkel]

Just follow Austinites sticky or the one in this forum. Both have mixing instruction. No need to inject so much volume.

[RipperAl]

Just an update to my situation, I have been using HCG three times a week on Mon/Wed/Fri mornings and doing my Test Cyp on Mon/Thurs mornings and after a couple of weeks I noticed my nipples were getting very sensitive and my right one seemed to have a lump under it, perhaps gyno?

Anyways I contacted my doctor and was prescribed Arimidex two times per week so I started taking it Monday and Thursday to make it easy to remember and the sensitive nipples went away within a few days but the lump under my right nipple remains and may have gotten slightly bigger, its not massive or anything but somewhat concerning so I called the doctor and she increased my Arimidex dosage.

I have now been told to take 0.50 Arimidex or half the pill three times per week so I plan to take it Mon/Wed/Fri and this doctor tells me to contact my family doctor about the lump and see what he has to say, I should mention about 7 years ago I thought I felt a small lump under the same nipple and they did all sorts of tests and found nothing wrong but this time the lump to me feels 5 times larger, I would says its about the circumference of a quarter and the height of it is three quarters stacked and when I look down at my nipple at different times it seems to somewhat be puffy or drooping down, when it's cold I don't notice this.

Other than this problem I DO FEEL BETTER from the TRT, libido is way higher and while erection did not seem rock hard from what I read thats nothing to do with Test so I just used some cialis and all is well.

Any thoughts appreciated.