TRT somethings not right

[jet dr]

I've taken Cyp on and off a few yrs for low T. I went to a recommended Dr and they prescribed me HCG 0.5ml 200 twice weekly along with anastr 0.25 once a week and 11,000 iu twice a week. I've been taking as prescribed for 5 months. At first, I had a high sex drive, lots of energy and I was a lot stronger. Now, everything has went away. Sex drive, energy and strength. I exercise 4 days a week and eat good.
I read this morning I should take 50 units HCG 3 times a week. Once the day before injection, once day of and once day after then 3 weeks off HGC.
My testicles have shrunk a good bit also.
When I went for my 6 wk ck up, Dr said everything looked good but I just haven't felt the same since I first started.
I gave blood. hemoglobin level high.
Please recommend how I should do this. My Dr is a couple hundred miles away.

[kelkel]

I've taken Cyp on and off a few yrs for low T. I went to a recommended Dr and they prescribed me HCG 0.5ml 200 twice weekly along with anastr 0.25 once a week and 11,000 iu twice a week.

Why on and off? You either need it or you don't.
Retype your protocol for us please. Something doesn't read correctly to me.

[jet dr]

Kelkel, the reason on and off is I first went to a regular MD that prescribed Cyr and the schedule for injections were very wrong. After 4 weeks they checked test blood work, they stopped treatment. This happened several times over a few years.
I started treatment with a recommended treatment dr several months ago. The above treatment is the current meds I'm on.
My question is what's wrong with my current treatment?
Previous treatment (years ago) was Cyr only.

[Xphanial]

Post BW, stats and protocol.

[jet dr]

I honestly don't know my bw, stats or exactly what protocol is. This isn't just any dr I'm currently seeing. Their specialist at treating low t. All I know is my itinial bw showed low and my 6 week follow up showed good. I didn't ask for results. I probably should have. My hemoglobin level was high and I donated as suggested.
I'm unfilmilar with exactly how I should explain myself but my goal is be healthy and strong as I can be to enjoy life to the fullest. I'm 45 yrs old. I'm sure my lifestyle isnt much different than everyone else. Please explain what you need to help you understand what I'm asking if that makes any sense. Lol
BTW, I knows this is weird but it seems my emotions were more sensitive than usual. I know my body and that didn't seem right. That tells me estrogen is higher than usual. I completely understand bw would help but what's a better way to do what I'm doing till I can get bw.
Sorry for rambling.
I'm bounce back and forth from 182 at 189. Can't gain anymore weight. I'm 6'0".
Pretty low bf.

[jet dr]

I have low T which is the reason for my origional post. I don't think it's wise for me to mention which HRT clinic I go to. I will say it's outta state. I'm trying to be Suttle and humble. 2 injections weekly Test,250 ml @.5
2 HCG .25 twice week and
One capsule anastr once a week. I don't know if my body has gotten used to this or maybe I'm sweating too much or I need to be taking more of something.
Please help.
One last mention. My muscles in my forearms have hurt for a while. Like the first time I ever lifted heavy weight.

[Bodacious]

Jet dr.... if you could get BW and post a lot of these guys can help you out. Just because your doc is a low t doc doesn't ray mean much. I have found out first hand. I would almost bet that kel on here knows more about BW than your doc does. So if you can post it people on here will help you.

[Bodacious]

I have low T which is the reason for my origional post. I don't think it's wise for me to mention which HRT clinic I go to. I will say it's outta state. I'm trying to be Suttle and humble. 2 injections weekly Test,250 ml @.5
2 HCG .25 twice week and
One capsule anastr once a week. I don't know if my body has gotten used to this or maybe I'm sweating too much or I need to be taking more of something.
Please help.
One last mention. My muscles in my forearms have hurt for a while. Like the first time I ever lifted heavy weight.

Is that 250 x2 a week of test or 125x2 a week?

[kelkel]

Ok, your terminology is skewing things here a bit. Most test is dosed at 200 mgs per ml or cc (ml & cc indicate volume, mgs = strength.) So my questions are:

Exactly how much test are you taking per week? Is it 100 mgs x 2 per week?
HCG is in IU's. How much of this are you taking per week?
Anastrazole is .25 once per week, correct?

I'm racking it for the night but will check this thread in the a.m. Listen to the guys here Jet, lots of available knowledge!

[jet dr]

Jet dr.... if you could get BW and post a lot of these guys can help you out. Just because your doc is a low t doc doesn't ray mean much. I have found out first hand. I would almost bet that kel on here knows more about BW than your doc does. So if you can post it people on here will help you.

Thanks for replying. Where would be the place to get the fastest results?
I'm confident I'm at the right place for answers. My fear is saying the wrong thing til you get to know I'm legimently asking a legitimate question.
My HRT dr is several hundred miles away. I don't want to stop what I'm doing. I just wish I could adjust how I'm doing it. I guess it's safe to say I'm not getting answers without current bw?

[jet dr]

Ok, your terminology is skewing things here a bit. Most test is dosed at 200 mgs per ml or cc (ml & cc indicate volume, mgs = strength.) So my questions are:

Exactly how much test are you taking per week? Is it 100 mgs x 2 per week?
HCG is in IU's. How much of this are you taking per week?
Anastrazole is .25 once per week, correct?Cyr or test 200x 50 marked on shot twice/week.
HCG 25 marked on insulin shot twice/ week
Anastrazloe .25 once a week
I'm racking it for the night but will check this thread in the a.m. Listen to the guys here Jet, lots of available knowledge!

I'm sorry for the confusion. I'm not good at explaining myself. Here it is. Typing on a phone sucks.
Test 250@50ml x twice a week.
HCG 11,000 @25ml x twice a week
Anastrazloe one capsule once a week.
I read a better choice for HCG is 50ml 3 times a week. Day before, day of and day after. My trust is in you Kel. I'd like to hear what you thing.

[jet dr]

Ok, your terminology is skewing things here a bit. Most test is dosed at 200 mgs per ml or cc (ml & cc indicate volume, mgs = strength.) So my questions are:

Exactly how much test are you taking per week? Is it 100 mgs x 2 per week?
HCG is in IU's. How much of this are you taking per week?
Anastrazole is .25 once per week, correct?

I'm racking it for the night but will check this thread in the a.m. Listen to the guys here Jet, lots of available knowledge!

After 6 wk. Previous
Test 871. 550
Free 27.9. 17.4
Estradiol 27.6. 29.1

[Beethoven]

So you are taking .5 ml two times per week. Testosterone strength is 250 me ml? Also 11,0000 iu is probably the amount of hcg in your vial but I'm sure it's not your weekly dose. A protocol is as follows and this is just an example:
Testosterone cypionate 125 mg a week split into two injections .
HCG 1000 I us split into two injections
Anastrozole . 5 mg split into twice a week.

[Beethoven]

Also, you can ask your Dr for a copy of your blood work and they should give you a copy .

[kelkel]

I'm sorry for the confusion. I'm not good at explaining myself. Here it is. Typing on a phone sucks.
Test 250@50ml x twice a week.
HCG 11,000 @25ml x twice a week
Anastrazloe one capsule once a week.
I read a better choice for HCG is 50ml 3 times a week. Day before, day of and day after. My trust is in you Kel. I'd like to hear what you thing.

Ok, you're taking 125 mgs of testosterone twice per week, right?
Your HCG description tells us nothing. Strength depends on how you mix it. So, how many IU's are you taking per injection?
HCG works best when you're consistent with it. 2-3 times per week is fine. With a twice per week Test protocol HCG timing is irrelevant. Just take it the same day you take your test.
If your adex is in capsule form I don't see you being able to split it, which would be a bit more fluid for you.

After 6 wk. Previous
Test 871. 550
Free 27.9. 17.4
Estradiol 27.6. 29.1

​Numbers look good but you need to give us ranges.

[jet dr]

Kelkel,
Range is Test 348-1197
Free 6.8-21.5
Estradiol. 8.0-35.0
Dose is as follows
200mg twice a week at 50ml each time Cyr
11000mg twice a week at 25ml
each time HCG
2 capsules Anastrazole twice a week.
So,Cyr would be 100 ml total for a week at 200mg
HCG total for a week would be 50ml per week.
Thanks for being paitent. Typing on phone.
How should I mix HCG?

[Chauffeur]

Kelkel,
Range is Test 348-1197
Free 6.8-21.5
Estradiol. 8.0-35.0
Dose is as follows
200mg twice a week at 50ml each time Cyr
11000mg twice a week at 25ml
each time HCG
2 capsules Anastrazole twice a week.
So,Cyr would be 100 ml total for a week at 200mg
HCG total for a week would be 50ml per week.
Thanks for being paitent. Typing on phone.
How should I mix HCG?

[2Sox]

OP,

You've got a lot of people here trying to help you out. Being new to TRT can be daunting but if you want straight answers, it's your responsibility to explain yourself fully. I'm sure you can see that we want to help you. But it's not fair to put us in the position of guessing what you mean - or what you are doing.

So, I'd suggest you stop typing on your phone, get to a computer and tell us your situation. If English is not your native language (and I say this respectfully) please get a friend to help you with your posts.

[jet dr]

I'll reply when I can get to a computer, and thanks for your paitents.

[Beethoven]

Read your testosterone label and give us the dosage and strength. It should be printed on your label. Same with hcg and anastrozole. I'm sure your not taking 200 mg twice a week. (Unless you're cycling lol)

[jet dr]

Cypionate 200mg Inject 0.5m intramuscular muscular twice a week.
Anastrozolw.25mg capsule, Take 1 capsule by mouth twice a week.
HCG (LYO)11,000IU injectable. Reconstitute with 11ml of Bac water. Inject(0.25ml or 25 units) subcutaneously twice a week.
I'm sorry for any confusion. This is exactly how I've been taking this. One of each every 3 1/2 days. I've done exactly this all at the same time.
I'm not sure if I'm scheduling wrong or mixing is wrong or what. All I know is I don't feel like I should. Both weak and tired all the time.
Thank you for any help.
JD

[2Sox]

Cypionate 200mg Inject 0.5m intramuscular muscular twice a week.
Anastrozolw.25mg capsule, Take 1 capsule by mouth twice a week.
HCG (LYO)11,000IU injectable. Reconstitute with 11ml of Bac water. Inject(0.25ml or 25 units) subcutaneously twice a week.
I'm sorry for any confusion. This is exactly how I've been taking this. One of each every 3 1/2 days. I've done exactly this all at the same time.
I'm not sure if I'm scheduling wrong or mixing is wrong or what. All I know is I don't feel like I should. Both weak and tired all the time.
Thank you for any help.
JD

This is still not clear at all.

It's not possible to fit 11mL of bacteriostatic water into a vial of hCG - unless you have a pretty big vial to transfer it into.

You'll feel like crap if you take two tablets of anastrozole per week. They come only in one size - 1 mg - unless something has changed recently. Are you taking .25mg, 2x a week or two, 1mg tablets 2x per week?

I can't even guess how much T cyp you are taking because you're not even expressing your units or measurements correctly.

I doubt if you'll get much help here if you continue to be so unclear.

[Chauffeur]

This is still not clear at all.

It's not possible to fit 11mL of bacteriostatic water into a vial of hCG - unless you have a pretty big vial to transfer it into.

You'll feel like crap if you take two tablets of anastrozole per week. They come only in one size - 1 mg - unless something has changed recently. Are you taking .25mg, 2x a week or two, 1mg tablets 2x per week?

I can't even guess how much T cyp you are taking because you're not even expressing your units or measurements correctly.

I doubt if you'll get much help here if you continue to be so unclear.

To be fair, compounded hCG and Anastrazole can both be packaged as he mentioned.

Sounds like his medications are coming from a compounding pharmacy.

[Chauffeur]

After 6 wk. Previous
Test 871. 550
Free 27.9. 17.4
Estradiol 27.6. 29.1

If we are assuming that this was not the sensitive estradiol assay, it looks like that's where the problem (or part of it) lies.

If I'm around 27 in the standard assay, my sensitive test would put my actual value in the low single digits...which is basically crashed,

[jet dr]

This is still not clear at all.

It's not possible to fit 11mL of bacteriostatic water into a vial of hCG - unless you have a pretty big vial to transfer it into.

You'll feel like crap if you take two tablets of anastrozole per week. They come only in one size - 1 mg - unless something has changed recently. Are you taking .25mg, 2x a week or two, 1mg tablets 2x per week?

I can't even guess how much T cyp you are taking because you're not even expressing your units or measurements correctly.

I doubt if you'll get much help here if you continue to be so unclear.

One tab is .25MG.
ONE TAB TWO TIMES A WEEK.
EQUALS .50MG A WEEK, NOT 1MG.
Guys, I'm reading the label word for word.

[jet dr]

HCG vial reads 11,00 units.
I take 25 units twice a week. That equals,
50 units in one week total.
I always have HCG and Anastrazole left over at the end of a 6 week supply.

[jet dr]

50 units Cyr, 2 times a week
25 units HCG , 2 times a week.
0.25 mg Anastrazole, 2 times a week.
I know you guys are willing to help. I'm sorry for the confusion.

[2Sox]

50 units Cyr, 2 times a week
25 units HCG , 2 times a week.
0.25 mg Anastrazole, 2 times a week.
I know you guys are willing to help. I'm sorry for the confusion.

First, Testosterone Cypionate is often shortened to Cyp. It's not Cyr
Second, when dosage is referred to, it is in mg. When you speak in units, with no measurement standard, you give no insight into your protocol. That leaves us guessing again.

hCG is dosed in international units shortened to ius. IF you are taking 50ius of hCG a week (which I doubt), you'll feel nothing. A recognized standard dose is 250ius two times a week. Many take doses that are higher. For example, 750 to 1000iu per week.

IF you are taking 200mg of T Cyp per week (which in the opinion of many is a rather high TRT dose), your dose of .25mg/2x week of anastrozole may not be enough and that may be the reason you are feeling poorly. Again, this is a guess because you are still not clear on what your dosing protocol is.

I hope this information will help you with your next post.

FYI: To date there have been 28 posts in response to your OP - and we still don't know what your protocol is.

[Beethoven]

Op, the HCG is what's not clear but as chauffer pointed out, your estradiol is low, considering that the sensitive assay is at least ten points lower, you sound like your E2 has crashed. But your test dose does seem a bit high. Ask your Dr how many ius you are actually taking. 25 is the number to which you are filling your syringe. Now depending on how your vial of 11,0000 ius which is the TOTAL strength in your vial if injected at once, the amount of Bac water that was actually used taken with your syringe quantity will tell you the actual dosage you are injecting. Read the sticky on hcg and re constituting and that will clear it up more. If you mix it with one ml or two mls, that same 25 mark on your syringe will have a different dosage.

[jet dr]

I screwed that up. I'm sorry.
Cyp 100mg 2 times a week
HCG 250 iu 2 times a week
Anastrazloe 0.25mg 2 times a week.
I hope I've explained it so everyone understands.

[2Sox]

I screwed that up. I'm sorry.
Cyp 100mg 2 times a week
HCG 250 iu 2 times a week
Anastrazloe 0.25mg 2 times a week.
I hope I've explained it so everyone understands.

Okay. So as others have advised get blood work done and post it here. Then ask your questions.

My guess is that it will show that your T and estradiol are too high.

You don't go on and off TRT. You'll be a mess. Find a good doctor

[Beethoven]

Okay. So as others have advised get blood work done and post it here. Then ask your questions.

My guess is that it will show that your T and estradiol are too high.

You don't go on and off TRT. You'll be a mess. Find a good doctor

^^^^^^^^
Ok now we're getting somewhere. The best thing you could do would be to ask your Drs office for a copy of your blood work. You should have no problem getting them to make you a copy of them. Post them here along with the ranges as each testing lab is different. There are many highly knowledgeable members here who can help. Your dosage is on the high end of trt but everyone is different. As mentioned earlier your estradiol seems really low but you really need to post up everything as to get a clear picture. Trt takes time and patience. You didn't get here overnight and won't fix everything overnight. But with a good Dr and the information and resources on this site, you will get better. We were all there.

[jet dr]

Patient Details DOB: 09/27/1970 Age(y/m/d): 044/09/19 Gender: M SSN: Patient ID:
Specimen Details

HOUSTON TX 77060
Date collected: 07/16/2015 0000 Local Date entered: 07/17/2015
Date reported: 07/22/2015 1814 ET
General Comments & Additional Information
Total Volume: Not Provided Fasting: No
Ordered Items CBC/D/Plt+TestT+E2Sens+TestF
Physician Details Ordering: Referring: ID: LEGALL NPI:
TESTS RESULT FLAG UNITS REFERENCE INTERVAL LAB CBC/D/Plt+TestT+E2Sens+TestF
Testosterone , Serum 871 ng/dL 348 - 1197 01 Comment:
Adult male reference interval is based on a population of lean males up to 40 years old.
Free Testosterone(Direct) 27.9 High pg/mL 6.8 - 21.5 02 Estradiol, Sensitive 27.6 pg/mL 8.0 - 35.0 02 This test was developed and its performance characteristics determined by LabCorp. It has not been cleared by the Food and Drug Administration.
Methodology: Liquid chromatography tandem mass spectrometry(LC/MS/MS)
. 01 CBC, Platelet Ct, and Diff 01 WBC 10.3 x10E3/uL 3.4 - 10.8 01 RBC 5.34 x10E6/uL 4.14 - 5.80 01 Hemoglobin 15.5 g/dL 12.6 - 17.7 01 Hematocrit 48.6 % 37.5 - 51.0 01 MCV 91 fL 79 - 97 01 MCH 29.0 pg 26.6 - 33.0 01 MCHC 31.9 g/dL 31.5 - 35.7 01 RDW 12.9 % 12.3 - 15.4 01 Platelets 355 x10E3/uL 150 - 379 01 Neutrophils 49 % 01 Lymphs 28 % 01 Monocytes 10 % 01 Eos 12 % 01 Basos 1 % 01 Neutrophils (Absolute) 5.1 x10E3/uL 1.4 - 7.0 01 Lymphs (Absolute) 2.9 x10E3/uL 0.7 - 3.1 01 Monocytes(Absolute) 1.1 High x10E3/uL 0.1 - 0.9 01 Eos (Absolute) 1.2 High x10E3/uL 0.0 - 0.4 01 Baso (Absolute) 0.1 x10E3/uL 0.0 - 0.2 01 Immature Granulocytes 0 % 01 Immature Grans (Abs) 0.0 x10E3/uL 0.0 - 0.1 01
Date Issued: 07/22/15 1830 ET FINAL REPORT Page 1 of 2 This document contains private and confidential health information protected by state and federal law.
If you have received this document in error, please call 205-581-3500 © 1995-2015 Laboratory Corporation of America® Holdings
1.00 All Rights Reserved - Enterprise Report Version:

[2Sox]

Patient Details DOB: 09/27/1970 Age(y/m/d): 044/09/19 Gender: M SSN: Patient ID:
Specimen Details

HOUSTON TX 77060
Date collected: 07/16/2015 0000 Local Date entered: 07/17/2015
Date reported: 07/22/2015 1814 ET
General Comments & Additional Information
Total Volume: Not Provided Fasting: No
Ordered Items CBC/D/Plt+TestT+E2Sens+TestF
Physician Details Ordering: Referring: ID: LEGALL NPI:
TESTS RESULT FLAG UNITS REFERENCE INTERVAL LAB CBC/D/Plt+TestT+E2Sens+TestF

Testosterone, Serum 871 ng/dL 348 - 1197 01
Comment:
Adult male reference interval is based on a population of lean males up to 40 years old.

Free Testosterone(Direct) 27.9 High pg/mL 6.8 - 21.5 02

Estradiol, Sensitive 27.6 pg/mL 8.0 - 35.0 02. This test was developed and its performance characteristics determined by LabCorp. It has not been cleared by the Food and Drug Administration.
Methodology: Liquid chromatography tandem mass spectrometry(LC/MS/MS). 01

CBC, Platelet Ct, and Diff 01
WBC 10.3 x10E3/uL 3.4 - 10.8 01
RBC 5.34 x10E6/uL 4.14 - 5.80 01
Hemoglobin 15.5 g/dL 12.6 - 17.7 01
Hematocrit 48.6 % 37.5 - 51.0 01
MCV 91 fL 79 - 97 01
MCH 29.0 pg 26.6 - 33.0 01
MCHC 31.9 g/dL 31.5 - 35.7 01
RDW 12.9 % 12.3 - 15.4 01
Platelets 355 x10E3/uL 150 - 379 01
Neutrophils 49 % 01
Lymphs 28 % 01
Monocytes 10 % 01
Eos 12 % 01
Basos 1 % 01
Neutrophils (Absolute) 5.1 x10E3/uL 1.4 - 7.0 01
Lymphs (Absolute) 2.9 x10E3/uL 0.7 - 3.1 01
Monocytes(Absolute) 1.1 High x10E3/uL 0.1 - 0.9 01 Eos (Absolute) 1.2 High x10E3/uL 0.0 - 0.4 01 Baso (Absolute) 0.1 x10E3/uL 0.0 - 0.2 01
Immature Granulocytes 0 % 01
Immature Grans (Abs) 0.0 x10E3/uL 0.0 - 0.1 01

Date Issued: 07/22/15 1830 ET FINAL REPORT Page 1 of 2 This document contains private and confidential health information protected by state and federal law.
If you have received this document in error, please call 205-581-3500 © 1995-2015 Laboratory Corporation of America® Holdings
1.00 All Rights Reserved - Enterprise Report Version:

I took the liberty to rearrange your test results so everyone here would have an easier time reading it and helping you out. I hope you realize this is something you should have done yourself. It would have shown consideration.

[jet dr]

2sox, I didnt know how to rearrange it. I am very greatful for any help I can get. Please don't think I'm being ungrateful. If youd know me, I promise you'd have a completely different view of me.
I've checked the site every hour to see if anyone replyed. I know there's people on here that KNOW a very good starting point to get me feeling better. And help at all is greatly appreciated.

[Beethoven]

Jet don't worry it's a learning process. Bear in mind it's the weekend. Arrange your bw as 2sox did. He's a great guy and contributes much on here. I think your test dose could probably come down some and it might probably cut down or out completely your Anastrozole. Give Kel and some others time to review your bloods. More is not necessarily better when it comes to trt.

[Beethoven]

Bump for kel.......

[jet dr]

Thanks Beethoven,
It's getting worse. I took my normal adderal (ADD) this morning. This evening I took ONE SCOOP of my normal pre workout power and hit the gym. Didn't feel right then I had pressure in my ears and vision got blury. Cked BP 168/105! I went to the hospital and told them every med I take. They were concerned taking Adderall with a preworkout. Doc put a iv for something to calm me down and told me to ck with my MD asap. I'm planning on next week.
Oh yea, they did bw and said everything was normal. Didn't ck horomones.
Im going to look for a local horomone Dr tomorrw. I've read a lot and it looks like I'm taking too much Cyr and my estradiol is low or high.
If anyone cares to give me any advise until I get a appt, I'm all ears.
Thanks,
JD

[kelkel]

I've taken Cyp on and off a few yrs for low T.
When I went for my 6 wk ck up, Dr said everything looked good but I just haven't felt the same since I first started.

I've just re-read the entire thread. You've been provided some very good advice. Right now I think the above comments of yours may sum up why you feel the way you do:

You don't go on and off TRT. It will wreak havoc on your system.
You've now only been on for 6 weeks. TRT is no panacea. It takes time. Some may get dialed in in a few months and feel fine, others make take up to a year to feel the full benefits and effects of replacement therapy.

I think you simply need to be patient, listen to your doctor and make adjustments based on your BW, how you feel and your consultations with the doc. Consultations can be via phone since your doc is far away.

[jet dr]

Kelke, I honor and thankful for your advise. It's my fault for screwing the post up but there's 2 things I didn't explain very well.
1. It was years ago when I went on and off TRT. Lately I've been on without and breaks.
2. I've been on TRT constantly for 5 months.
I said When I got 6 week bw and ck up my doctor said I was doing fine.
And lastly, I'm trying to get a appt from a local endro doctor for bw. Once I get bw, I'll post it.
I want to thank everyone for being understanding of my ignorance. I've been reading everyday.