25yo, give me one good reason to not hop on TRT

**axl617** · 03-10-2016, 08:10 AM

Hi guys, I'm about to turn 25 and for the last 4 years I've been feeling like a former shell of myself. Just started feeling shitty in 2012 and spent the next few years chasing the route of anti-depressants and healthy living. The only thing that remained consistent is I had low t and low energy. A general feeling of "I'm old now".

Last week:

Total Test 7.2nmol/L (8.3-30.2) SHBG 23nmol/L (13-71) Free test 167pmol/L (225-725) LH 5 (1-10) Fsh 3 (1-10)

Beyond FSH, testosterone and bottom-range SHBG all my stuff checks out. Not a single bad results. My thyroid, my balls, my vitamin D, cortisol, cholesterol, DHEA and all that stuff is perfect. People tell me to 'find the root of the cause' but where the **** else am I supposed to look? Even two specialist endos couldn't see anything obvious, they simply told me "you have all the testosterone your body needs, due to low SHBG".

I have not tried clomid/nolvadex /hcg therapy, mostly because no doctor here knows about this treatment and 'HPTA restarts' rarely work. Why should I not just start TRT?

**kelkel** · 03-10-2016, 08:25 AM

Hi Axl,

It appears you've done your research. Your LH value is good, yet your T is low which indicates it may be testicular in nature. You commented your testicals were perfect. How was this determined? Palpation, ultrasound? I'd be curious to see how you'd respond to an HCG Stimulation Test (google it) which would show if in fact your production at the testcular level is adequate.

And yes, thankfully your shbg is low which helps, but your doc's saying you have all the FT you need is basing how you feel by numbers on a chart, which is bullshyt. No one wants their FT and the low end as it's what works for us. Also, re thyroid which is a major culprit, are you sure the numbers are good? Being in range isn't always indicative of "good."

kel

**axl617** · 03-10-2016, 09:10 AM

Originally Posted by kelkel

Hi Axl,

It appears you've done your research. Your LH value is good, yet your T is low which indicates it may be testicular in nature. You commented your testicals were perfect. How was this determined? Palpation, ultrasound? I'd be curious to see how you'd respond to an HCG Stimulation Test (google it) which would show if in fact your production at the testcular level is adequate.

And yes, thankfully your shbg is low which helps, but your doc's saying you have all the FT you need is basing how you feel by numbers on a chart, which is bullshyt. No one wants their FT and the low end as it's what works for us. Also, re thyroid which is a major culprit, are you sure the numbers are good? Being in range isn't always indicative of "good."

kel

Hey Kel thank you for your fast response. I don't recall getting an ultrasound, but I had several endos check out my testicles and compare them by size to some plastic ones. There also has never been any pain and sperm production seems pretty good. The term I've been hearing is 'secondary hypogonadism' over the last few years. Possibly from brain trauma? I used to take a heavy shots a week when I was doing boxing.

The biggest problem is I would have a very hard time convincing my doc to prescribe hcg, the last few I asked just looked at me oddly and asked "you know that's for women right?". I'm not sure they even sell it in Australia to be honest.

I'm not too sure about my thyroid other than what the blood labs say, as you can see from the picture perhaps TSH is a bit low-ish, last week showing 1.5ml u/L on a range of 0.5-4, and that has remained the same throughout the years. The only advice I ever heard about this was:

fT3 is elevated and TSH is also interesting. Please see the thyroid basics stick and check your body temperatures. Concern is that rT3 may be elevated, blocking ft3.

Wasn't sure what to make of that, body temp seems overall fine, a bit intolerant to heat perhaps as I sweat a lot. The same user said I might have pituitary damage and suggested nolvadex to test my HPTA function, then hcg monotherapy which seems unlikely unless I get this stuff underground.

**axl617** · 03-10-2016, 10:56 AM

Dammit, too much solid information telling me I should try nolvadex a chance first to see if I can restore my natural testosterone production.

**The Deadlifting Dog** · 03-10-2016, 11:41 AM

Are you still taking the anti-depressants?

**axl617** · 03-10-2016, 12:58 PM

Originally Posted by The Deadlifting Dog

Are you still taking the anti-depressants?

Only took them for 4 months in 2012, didn't do shit so I quit. Gave them another shot in 2015 for a few weeks and quit again. I'm certain hormonal issues need to be resolved before taking that route again.

**kelkel** · 03-10-2016, 03:15 PM

I would not classify you as secondary. That refers to poor pituitary function. Primary refers to testicular issues. That said, it does not mean your Lh values are where they should be. No one can guess what your normal is without a history of BW to base it on. Regardless, issues are not always one or the other, sometimes there's a combination of both.

If possible I'd try the stim test in conjunction with blood work. Other than that, I'd choose clomid over Nolva for this purpose although both will help stimulate production at the pituitary level.

**axl617** · 03-10-2016, 09:52 PM

Originally Posted by kelkel

I would not classify you as secondary. That refers to poor pituitary function. Primary refers to testicular issues. That said, it does not mean your Lh values are where they should be. No one can guess what your normal is without a history of BW to base it on. Regardless, issues are not always one or the other, sometimes there's a combination of both.

If possible I'd try the stim test in conjunction with blood work. Other than that, I'd choose clomid over Nolva for this purpose although both will help stimulate production at the pituitary level.

Interesting, the expert on the another trt forum is pretty certain I have secondary, maybe because of my age and prolactin/estradiol levels. I do find that more likely because my boys have always been taken care of, whereas when I was younger and dumber a culmination of sparring, fights at nightclubs, experimentation with weird compounds (like synthetic thc) would very likely do some damage to my noggin.

If I do take nolvadex , then I'll know for sure if my top-end HPTA is functioning, if not I should try hcg and/or clomid to see if that's the issue?

**kelkel** · 03-11-2016, 08:37 AM

Well, your LH levels are basically mid-range. Not sure how anyone can classify that as secondary unless there's some evidence to show that they are normally much higher. There's nothing wrong with your prolactin or estrogen. Prolactin is fine and your estrogen is at the low end due to your T being low. Estrogen follows testosterone . T goes up, E goes up and vice versa. All that said, people aren't always just primary or secondary, there can be combinations of both.

Yes, nolva or clomid will stimulate LH production. I do not suggest using hcg and clomid at the same time. HCG is suppressive over time to LH production and clomid is stimulatory.