Got Rx for Testosterone GEL...what to do now

[Kevin.archer]

I am 50 yrs old, and decided a year ago that I my being out of shape and pre-diabetic/high blood pressure/high cholesterol with numbers moving up was going to kill me early. I altered what I ate (now eat low sugar/low carb/high protein foods with supplements and have been working out at the gym most every day to try and build some muscle and lose 20 years of stubborn fat.

I have gone from 245 35% bf to 215 20% bf so I have done OK, but more needs to be done.

So I went to the doctor and did physical/bloodwork now the doc says I have low T and prescribed testosterone gel for me (luckily my insurance covers this), and I pick it up on monday.

My sugars were down, my blood pressure was down, but my cholesterol continued to rise ( I think from animal protein/butter etc... )
Doctor prescribed some cholesterol meds.

My question is:

Considering that I want to get most gains at the gym and build muscle, is there a specific way to optimize the use of this testerone gel?
Also, given that my cholesterol is high, what proteins should I be eating/staying away from?

[956Vette]

Beware of those cholesterol meds, what is your number & how is your ratio (hdl/ldl)?

Unsure there is a safe/recommended way to optimize the usage of gel (ignore any peanut gallery comments telling you to apply it to your boys). When I first was prescribed the gel, I did not like the roller-coaster it took me on - oily skin and erections after application in the AM...feeling a low by the PM. Depot testosterone helps attain my goals personally, keep it in mind as you listen to your body on the new treatment.

[kelkel]

Just apply it as prescribed for now until you get dialed in via blood work. Once that is achieved (assuming it's Androgel ) you can always apply some moisturizer to the application site about an hour after gel is applied. This will improve absorption by about 17% if I recall correctly.

Re your cholesterol try dividing your triglycerides by your HDL. If the number is 2 or less it's a good indicator of cardiac risk. Take a look at "The Great Cholesterol Myth" by Doctor Stephen Sinatra. Good read.

You may find this older thread interesting as well:

http://forums.steroid.com/hormone-re...xperiment.html

[Kevin.archer]

I don't have hard numbers as I only spoke with doctors secretary but will get these labs mailed to me and post them....I am curious to know how low my T was if my doctor prescribed it without a fuss, and I will have a baseline to start with.

Will also read the Cholesterol Myth...I have not really watched my cholesterol, but when I kicked sugars and most carbs, I probably am eating way to much butter and other nasty stuff not good for me.

Thanks and will update when I know more. I have some reading to do.

[kelkel]

Kevin now is the time to start a file and maintain copies of all your labs as well. You can and will learn a lot from doing this. If you use Labcorp sign up for their on-line service (Labcorp-Beacon) and you can then see all your results, all the time.

[Kevin.archer]

Thanks kelkel, I did pick up "the great cholesterol myth" on amazon and am about half way through...I think I will discuss with my doctor about alternatives and see if she will work with me on other options.

I also came across one of your older posts about a cholesterol reducing protocol you implemented:

"1. NAC 600mg 2-3 x per day
2. Slo-Niacin 750mg at bedtime
3. Red Yeast Rice 1200mg 2-3 times per day
4. Eliminated all sugar. Basically just meant no sugar in my coffee."

I have a family history of high blood pressure, high cholesterol and diabetes.

About a year ago, I was 49, I was 245lbs / 5'8" standard crappy american diet/no exercise and:
I had systolic blood pressure around 180 so they gave me lysinipril
I had just entered Type 2 diabetes and they wanted to give me more meds
My cholesterol was tracking to high

That was my wake-up call and I decided I wanted to live.

In the past year I have changed my nutrition, began going back to the gym pretty much daily and started trying to educate myself about the effects of food, supplements and exercise, began tinkering slowly over time to see what my body responded to and what it did not like.

With changes to diet, addition of supplements and exercise I have dropped my blood pressure and my sugars, but cholesterol is a problem (will get a copy of lab reports on monday)

So your cholesterol protocol is very interesting to me...I already eat sugar free (as possible) / low carb / high protien...kind of Paleo-Mediterrainian-Atkins style.

Have you adjusted your cholesterol lowering protocol over time or is this what you use now?

[Kevin.archer]

OK, I have read through the suggested supplements in Cholesterol Myth and am going to ramp up the following supplements into my supplement mix. I have ordered them on Amazon.
This list is based on kelkel's protocol and Cholesterol Myth:

D-Ribose 5g/Day
L-Carnitine 2g/day
CoQ10 100mg 2 times per day
NAC 600mg 2-3 time a day
High Gamma Vitamin E 200mg / Day
Pantethine 900mg / Day
Omega 3’S – 1g Total EPA/DHA / Day
Red yeast rice 1200mg 2-3 times a day
Slo-Niacin 750mg bedtime

Any comments / concerns?

[kelkel]

It would be great if you could obtain a VAP or NMR Lipo Profile now so you have something in depth to compare your progress to other than a basic chol panel.
I've reduced the RYR to once per day over time. It seriously is the worst tasting crap ever.
Make sure you Vit D is optimized as well as it will help your total cholesterol.

Great to see you are so motivated to improve your health and lifestyle! Keep it up! Supplements can do amazing things when utilized properly.

[Kevin.archer]

OK, I did get my bloodwork paperwork back.

Cholesterol

Cholesterol Total--251
Triglycerides-------119
HDL-----------------41
VLDL----------------24
LDL----------------186

Doc prescribed Lipitor 20mg, but I am afraid to take it. My HDL/Trigliceride ratio is just under 2.9 which is bad but not horrible I think. I will ask for an LDL particle size test (VAP right?) to see what my fluffy/angry LD numbers are and re-evaluate...In the short term I will use the above supplements and retest to measure effectiveness.

Testosterone

Testosterone ---185ng/dl

Yep,...thats ...LOW. Bring on the GEL.

[kelkel]

Did you discuss your supplement plan with your doctor by chance? I'd think you could make substantial progress without the actual statin med, imho. Do keep in mind though that the RYR contains natural statins as well.

Yes, VAP or NMR Lipo Profile will work.

[MuscleScience]

Did you discuss your supplement plan with your doctor by chance? I'd think you could make substantial progress without the actual statin med, imho. Do keep in mind though that the RYR contains natural statins as well.

Yes, VAP or NMR Lipo Profile will work.

Not to thread high jack, but have you seen some of the new HDL research that's coming out Kel? Implicating the quality of HDL and its effect of either being pro- or Anti inflammatory in nature based on diet?

This is something I hadn't seen previously. I have always been in the camp that the overall inflammatory state or the body and not the overall flux of cholesterols what's the major contributor to heart disease. Now we are finding that based on diet and such. Vldl, LDL, MDL, and HDL can either inflame the intima or protect it based on its own Chemisty. I find this amazing, and in would mean both camps were right to an extent.

[kelkel]

Not to thread high jack, but have you seen some of the new HDL research that's coming out Kel? Implicating the quality of HDL and its effect of either being pro- or Anti inflammatory in nature based on diet?

This is something I hadn't seen previously. I have always been in the camp that the overall inflammatory state or the body and not the overall flux of cholesterols what's the major contributor to heart disease. Now we are finding that based on diet and such. Vldl, LDL, MDL, and HDL can either inflame the intima or protect it based on its own Chemisty. I find this amazing, and in would mean both camps were right to an extent.

I have not seen actual studies on this. Totally agree with you about the bodies state of inflammation. Another good reason to know and monitor your CRP level. If you have something current pm or post it please. Love to read it.

[MuscleScience]

I have not seen actual studies on this. Totally agree with you about the bodies state of inflammation. Another good reason to know and monitor your CRP level. If you have something current pm or post it please. Love to read it.

This one of them that's getting some press. I am still trying to find the most rescent article I read.

http://www.thelancet.com/journals/la...126-6/abstract

[kelkel]

This one of them that's getting some press. I am still trying to find the most rescent article I read.

http://www.thelancet.com/journals/la...126-6/abstract

To sum it up, clear out the crap via efflux capacity and reduce the risk.

[MuscleScience]

Yep, I had to look it up. That has not been something I had really heard before. It's interesting to me that for as long as cholesterol has been looked at as the causitive agent, nobody had really looked at cholesterols themselves and seen it quality vs quantity was a difference.

[kelkel]

Yep, I had to look it up. That has not been something I had really heard before. It's interesting to me that for as long as cholesterol has been looked at as the causitive agent, nobody had really looked at cholesterols themselves and seen it quality vs quantity was a difference.

It's kinda one of the reasons I always pull the VAP or NMR Lipo Profile as it breaks things down so well and gives such a clear picture of what's going on inside you.

[MuscleScience]

It's kinda one of the reasons I always pull the VAP or NMR Lipo Profile as it breaks things down so well and gives such a clear picture of what's going on inside you.

I know I have asked you before, but are you a physician?

[Kevin.archer]

My doctor was not receptive to my concern about the lipitor, or using the supplements, or the additional blood tests. In a round about way she hinted that what she does is somewhat controlled by insurance monkeys.

Of course I could get the test but it would be on my dime, so I will have to think about this.

Over the next month I will try the supplements, if I can get my numbers moving down, I will keep at it...if not I will use the lipitor.

Thanks for all the information!

Also I came across a study done posted at lipidcenter-dot-com which seems to support the HDL/Triglyceride ratio as a risk determiner.

lipidcenter-dot-com/pdf/TG_HDL_Ratio.pdf

In a nutshell, a high ratio suggests predominately small LDL particles in LDL Total.

[Kevin.archer]

Supplements seem to be taking OK, body is not unhappy with additional supps and no issues so far. Also I am getting a nice little bump at the gym from the D-Ribose and the L-Carnitine.

I did have a question about the red yeast rice. I have read that red yeast rice sold in US no longer contains enough cholesterol fighting ingredients:

" Small scale studies using pharmaceutical-grade red rice yeast have continued to demonstrate efficacy and safety. However, in the United States it is no longer legal to sell supplements of red yeast rice that contain more than trace amounts of cholesterol lowering substances. For example, the active ingredients of red rice yeast have been removed from Cholestin marketed in the United States. (Hypocol, another product containing red yeast rice is no longer being sold in the United States.)

The reasons the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has ruled that it is illegal to sell red yeast rice that contains more than trace amounts of the cholesterol-lowering substances and to promote red yeast rice for lowering cholesterol levels."

If this is so, then

1) I don't think it worth it to use the U.S. red yeast rice, and
2) Does anyone know where I get the real deal red yeast rice that still has the original amounts of monacolin K (lovastatin) still in it?

[kelkel]

Correct on the RYR. In the older thread of mine that's linked above it explains that. The brand I use is called Hard Rhino which should be available via Amazon.

[kelkel]

I know I have asked you before, but are you a physician?

Oh hell no. Still ride the short bus. With Haz....

[kelkel]

Correct on the RYR. In the older thread of mine that's linked above it explains that. The brand I use is called Hard Rhino which should be available via Amazon.

BTW, here's another book you may be interested in: Supplement Goals Reference | Examine.com

[Kevin.archer]

Thanks kelkel,

Seems the hard rhino "chinese" red yeast rice has been pulled. I have been trying to find some from overseas but no luck, and I don't know anyone in Mumbai. I guess I have to settle for the Cholestoff instead....damn!!

Thanks for the link to examine.com, lots of great information.

[Kevin.archer]

Just wanted to update regarding cholesterol. I changed my diet a bit to add more fiber and changed my (typically pan fried egg/sausage/butter) breakfast for oatmeal/yogurt/berries and added this to my supps. Cholesterol is now under 150, LDL under 100.

Supps
D-Ribose 5g/Day
L-Carnitine 2g/day
CoQ10 100mg 2 times per day
NAC 600mg 2 time a day
High Gamma Vitamin E 200mg / Day
Pantethine 900mg / Day
Omega 3’S – 1g Total EPA/DHA / Day
Cholestoff - 2 pills once a day (could not find real red yeast rice so substituted with this)
Slo-Niacin 500mg

I am not sure why the drop so fast. I was on vacation in New York for ten days and ate VERY bad things for me, came back and did the original cholesterol test 2 days after coming back. Perhaps this debauchery raised my numbers high temporarily as I do not normally eat like a viking lord.

[kelkel]

Those numbers are much better than what you previously posted!
Are you supplementing with D3 as well by chance?

[Kevin.archer]

OK, you got me!...did not know vitamin D had numbers. I take Vitamin D (as Cholecalciferol) 5000IU. What is Vitamin D3?

[kelkel]

That is D3. It's actually a hormone, not a vitamin and one of the healthiest items you can take. Take it with a meal for best absorption.

Vitamin D - Scientific Review on Usage, Dosage, Side Effects | Examine.com

[JKW]

Wow so much to know! Kel I would have thought you were a physician with your knowledge. Maybe not the actual degree but you have the knowledge.

[kelkel]

If there's on other item you can get access to via prescription or otherwise it would be low dose daily Cialis. An extremely healthy thing for a man to take on a daily basis and not even for the reason intended. 5 mgs daily does wonders. Next time you see your doc complain about libido or something and try to obtain it if possible!

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