Results 1 to 26 of 26
Like Tree18Likes
  • 4 Post By DocToxin8
  • 1 Post By JKW
  • 2 Post By Simon1972
  • 1 Post By hammerheart
  • 1 Post By hammerheart
  • 2 Post By Simon1972
  • 1 Post By hammerheart
  • 1 Post By Mr.BB
  • 1 Post By OdinsOtherSon
  • 1 Post By hammerheart
  • 1 Post By kelkel
  • 1 Post By APIs
  • 1 Post By DocToxin8

Thread: Haters gonna hate

  1. #1
    OdinsOtherSon's Avatar
    OdinsOtherSon is online now Knowledgeable Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    2,537

    Haters gonna hate

    Study Questions Benefits of Testosterone for Low T






    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  2. #2
    DocToxin8's Avatar
    DocToxin8 is offline Knowledgeable Member
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Land of the screwed
    Posts
    2,161
    "Testosterone has known risks and no clear benefits..."

    That kinda says it all about the bias of the study.

    And to top it all:
    Women have sex hormones thrown after them in every respect,
    as contraceptives and to alleviate menopause.
    We do this even though we know that there are risks about using estrogens.

    Why can't men do the same?
    There are nothing that points to testosterone supplementation for men being any more dangerous than estrogen supplementation for women.
    The only reason testosterone is demonized is because it can be abused in sports, or abused at all.

  3. #3
    JKW's Avatar
    JKW
    JKW is offline Associate Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    237
    You can do a study to make it say what you want. I have been hearing the negatives of testosterone etc since the 70's and back then the mantra was how it does not enhance athletic performance blah blah blah. Just more nay sayers wanting to limit men and their physical well being. Doc T is right on the money about women so they can stick their study...well you guys know what I mean.
    Tlolec the toilet likes this.

  4. #4
    Simon1972's Avatar
    Simon1972 is offline Knowledgeable Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Montreal Canada
    Posts
    1,360
    Blog Entries
    3

    Testosterone supplementation consistently increased muscle strength but "did not have beneficial effects on physical function."

    I would have to agree with this paragraph because my mother has low t and I bench press the same weight as her.NOT...everyone in the world knows testosterone increases strength..

    "Questions have lingered about whether or not testosterone replacement therapy to boost lagging levels of the sex hormone were increasing the risk of prostate cancer, but a study of 250,000 Swedish men found that not only did testosterone supplements not increase the rate of prostate cancer, it was reduced by 50 percent. "

    So 250000 men showed signs of lowered prostate .cancer, but there are questions. Typical woman. Lets discount the next breast cancer breakthrough why don't we....


    Luckily no body reads stuff on the web
    Last edited by Simon1972; 09-22-2016 at 03:36 PM.
    DocToxin8 and OdinsOtherSon like this.

  5. #5
    MuscleScience's Avatar
    MuscleScience is offline ~AR-Elite-Hall of Famer~
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    ShredVille
    Posts
    12,631
    Blog Entries
    6
    Quote Originally Posted by Simon1972 View Post

    Testosterone supplementation consistently increased muscle strength but "did not have beneficial effects on physical function."

    I would have to agree with this paragraph because my mother has low t and I bench press the same weight as her.NOT...everyone in the world knows testosterone increases strength..

    "Questions have lingered about whether or not testosterone replacement therapy to boost lagging levels of the sex hormone were increasing the risk of prostate cancer, but a study of 250,000 Swedish men found that not only did testosterone supplements not increase the rate of prostate cancer, it was reduced by 50 percent. "

    So 250000 men showed signs of lowered prostate .cancer, but there are questions. Typical woman. Lets discount the next breast cancer breakthrough why don't we....


    Luckily no body reads stuff on the web
    Do you have Link to that study by chance?
    “If you can't explain it to a second grader, you probably don't understand it yourself.” Albert Einstein

    "Juice slow, train smart, it's a long journey."
    BG

    "In a world full of pussies, being a redneck is not a bad thing."
    OB

    Body building is a way of life..........but can not get in the way of your life.
    BG

    No Source Check Please, I don't know of any.


    Depressed? Healthy Way Out!

    Tips For Young Lifters


    MuscleScience Training Log

  6. #6
    hammerheart's Avatar
    hammerheart is offline Knowledgeable Member
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    Surrounded by wolves
    Posts
    4,528
    says Dr. Adriane Fugh-Berman
    A woman. That explains the bias...
    Last edited by hammerheart; 09-22-2016 at 11:22 PM.
    Tlolec the toilet likes this.

  7. #7
    hammerheart's Avatar
    hammerheart is offline Knowledgeable Member
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    Surrounded by wolves
    Posts
    4,528
    Quote Originally Posted by DocToxin8 View Post
    "Testosterone has known risks and no clear benefits..."

    That kinda says it all about the bias of the study.

    And to top it all:
    Women have sex hormones thrown after them in every respect,
    as contraceptives and to alleviate menopause.
    We do this even though we know that there are risks about using estrogens.

    Why can't men do the same?
    There are nothing that points to testosterone supplementation for men being any more dangerous than estrogen supplementation for women.
    The only reason testosterone is demonized is because it can be abused in sports, or abused at all.
    In my country, you can donate blood if your a woman on oestrogens but a man on TRT gets denied. How wicked is that?
    Tlolec the toilet likes this.

  8. #8
    Simon1972's Avatar
    Simon1972 is offline Knowledgeable Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Montreal Canada
    Posts
    1,360
    Blog Entries
    3
    Quote Originally Posted by MuscleScience View Post
    Do you have Link to that study by chance?

    the link is in the OP first post- i just copied and pasted a few choice paragraphs.

    the Article is biased BS

  9. #9
    hammerheart's Avatar
    hammerheart is offline Knowledgeable Member
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    Surrounded by wolves
    Posts
    4,528
    Quote Originally Posted by Simon1972 View Post
    the link is in the OP first post- i just copied and pasted a few choice paragraphs.

    the Article is biased BS
    Yeah but those are quotes of the original article too, which can be found here:

    PLOS ONE: Treatment of Men for “Low Testosterone”: A Systematic Review

  10. #10
    hammerheart's Avatar
    hammerheart is offline Knowledgeable Member
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    Surrounded by wolves
    Posts
    4,528
    The article is stunning.

    First it goes like this

    Most authors with an interest in 17β-estradiol have suggested that the effectiveness of testosterone, when it has shown effectiveness, is due to aromatization to 17β-estradiol. Cherrier et al[131] measured testosterone and 17β-estradiol concentrations after injection of testosterone supplements in healthy men and reported that both testosterone and 17β-estradiol concentrations were associated with recall of a test story, but only 17β-estradiol concentrations were associated with performance on the Stroop test. In another study, Cherrier et al reported that only men with an increase in 17β-estradiol concentration after testosterone supplementation showed improvements in verbal memory testing.[136] This study used administration of the aromatase inhibitor anastrozole to differentiate between effects attributable to testosterone and those that might be due to 17β-estradiol. Another study without anastrozole found 17β-estradiol serum concentrations after testosterone therapy to be a significant predictor of performance on verbal memory testing.[140] All three studies had a Jadad score of 5.
    but then concludes

    In summary, there is no support for the use of testosterone to enhance cognition in normal or cognitively impaired men.
    Almost if we need the estradiol alone and not the Test, lol.

    Given the known risks of testosterone therapy and the lack of evidence for clinical benefits in normal men, we do not think further trials of testosterone are necessary.

    Ok...
    DocToxin8 likes this.

  11. #11
    Mr.BB's Avatar
    Mr.BB is offline Anabolic Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    HOME
    Posts
    6,902
    Quote Originally Posted by bizzarro View Post
    In my country, you can donate blood if your a woman on oestrogens but a man on TRT gets denied. How wicked is that?
    Ppl end up omiting everything (guilty here). The only thing that prevents me from donating is isotretinoin (acutanne), for good reasons....

    But some get it worse, gays were forbidden to donate in my country, after a lot debate they decided change the prohibition to suspension. Now they can donate as long as they have no sex in the previous 12 months ROFL
    Tlolec the toilet likes this.

  12. #12
    OdinsOtherSon's Avatar
    OdinsOtherSon is online now Knowledgeable Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    2,537
    Quote Originally Posted by DocToxin8 View Post
    "Testosterone has known risks and no clear benefits..."

    That kinda says it all about the bias of the study.

    And to top it all:
    Women have sex hormones thrown after them in every respect,
    as contraceptives and to alleviate menopause.
    We do this even though we know that there are risks about using estrogens.

    Why can't men do the same?
    There are nothing that points to testosterone supplementation for men being any more dangerous than estrogen supplementation for women.
    The only reason testosterone is demonized is because it can be abused in sports, or abused at all.
    Also, imho, there is a very concerted effort in today's society to emasculate men at every opportunity. Let's face it, testosterone makes men. What better way to accomplish this than to deny, or at least make it very difficult, to obtain the very thing that makes them who and what they are...biological speaking.
    Tlolec the toilet likes this.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    toliet
    Posts
    887
    Haters gonna hate-e296ec82e6983ac5bdb0d511afdcefae.jpg

    women...
    Last edited by Tlolec the toilet; 09-25-2016 at 03:24 PM.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    toliet
    Posts
    887
    edited. POOF
    Last edited by Tlolec the toilet; 09-25-2016 at 03:25 PM.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    toliet
    Posts
    887
    edited. POOF
    Last edited by Tlolec the toilet; 09-25-2016 at 03:25 PM.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    toliet
    Posts
    887
    edited. POOF
    Last edited by Tlolec the toilet; 09-25-2016 at 03:25 PM.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    toliet
    Posts
    887
    im sorry, lol ROFL
    Last edited by Tlolec the toilet; 09-25-2016 at 03:25 PM.

  18. #18
    hammerheart's Avatar
    hammerheart is offline Knowledgeable Member
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    Surrounded by wolves
    Posts
    4,528
    Quote Originally Posted by Tlolec View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	e296ec82e6983ac5bdb0d511afdcefae.jpg 
Views:	101 
Size:	33.6 KB 
ID:	165573

    women...
    Sorry for the sexist comments but sometimes my Italian-ness gets out of control.
    Tlolec the toilet likes this.

  19. #19
    kelkel's Avatar
    kelkel is offline HRT Specialist ~ AR-Platinum Elite-Hall of Famer ~ No Source Checks
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    East Coast Dungeon
    Posts
    29,577
    Quote Originally Posted by Simon1972 View Post

    Testosterone supplementation consistently increased muscle strength but "did not have beneficial effects on physical function."

    That's a contradiction in and of itself.
    OdinsOtherSon likes this.
    -*- NO SOURCE CHECKS -*-

  20. #20
    kelkel's Avatar
    kelkel is offline HRT Specialist ~ AR-Platinum Elite-Hall of Famer ~ No Source Checks
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    East Coast Dungeon
    Posts
    29,577
    Quote Originally Posted by bizzarro View Post
    In my country, you can donate blood if your a woman on oestrogens but a man on TRT gets denied. How wicked is that?

    Last time I gave blood they added a new checklist that included Finasteride and HGH..............what nerve.
    -*- NO SOURCE CHECKS -*-

  21. #21
    APIs's Avatar
    APIs is offline Knowledgeable Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Avoiding newbies @ gym...
    Posts
    1,322
    LOL, written by weak suits. They are everywhere...
    Tlolec the toilet likes this.

  22. #22
    DocToxin8's Avatar
    DocToxin8 is offline Knowledgeable Member
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Land of the screwed
    Posts
    2,161
    Quote Originally Posted by kelkel View Post
    Last time I gave blood they added a new checklist that included Finasteride and HGH..............what nerve.
    And men on TRT often need to donate blood to keep hematocrit down as well,
    blood with high hematocrit would be the perfect thing in a medical crisis though. But let's just throw it in the trash instead.
    And lest we forget, if you're in need of a blood transfusion, the horror it would be if T levels in there were high compared to a high E2 level? Right...

    This is a classic case of when politics enter medicine.
    OdinsOtherSon likes this.

  23. #23
    CrossOps's Avatar
    CrossOps is offline Associate Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    North Florida
    Posts
    152
    That article was definitely slanted.

    "Testosterone is "ineffective" in treating erectile dysfunction and "did not show a consistent effect on libido."

  24. #24
    Youthful55guy is offline Knowledgeable Member
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Posts
    1,232
    Quote Originally Posted by kelkel View Post
    Last time I gave blood they added a new checklist that included Finasteride and HGH..............what nerve.
    Finasteride for good reason, it's teratogenic (can cause birth defects in a developing fetus).

    HGH is more controversial. The reason they ask is because prior to about 1984 (or there about), it was derived from cadavers and carries the risk of prion infection. However, that was a long time ago and the stuff is no longer commercially available. It's now all recombinant DNA derived. However, the fear remains that some of the people that received it decades ago may try to donate. I think the question should be reworded as to when you received HGH, but my opinion won't buy you much. If you need to donate (due to TRT) and you take prescribed HGH, it's dangerous to answer yes to the question because the technicians doing the screening are trained to look for reasons to reject you and they error on the conservative side. Once you get on the "deferred list" (better called a black list), it's hard to get off.

    I should also point out that a lot of folks (including the technicians doing the screening) get HGH and HCG mixed up and I've heard of guys getting on the deferred list when they tell them they are taking (or have taken) legally prescribed HCG. Since neither HCG nor T are on the forbidden drug list, I choose not to even bring up the topic when we are in the screening room. I simply answer no that I'm not taking (not have I taken) any of the forbidden medications, which is the truth. I just don't want to open that can of worms for no reason. Finasteride, on the other hand is forbidden for good reason. it's not being sexist.

  25. #25
    kelkel's Avatar
    kelkel is offline HRT Specialist ~ AR-Platinum Elite-Hall of Famer ~ No Source Checks
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    East Coast Dungeon
    Posts
    29,577
    Oh I totally understand the reasons, just though it odd that they are just now bringing this stuff up! A bit behind the times!
    -*- NO SOURCE CHECKS -*-

  26. #26
    DocToxin8's Avatar
    DocToxin8 is offline Knowledgeable Member
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Land of the screwed
    Posts
    2,161
    I think it would be fun to give finasteride to women pregnant with a male fetus.
    The effects on the sex organs would give us a lot of new and intresting "inter genders", lol. No but seriously, blood with elevated T or HGH wouldn't mean shit if given to a pregnant women, unless maybe, and I say maybe, given for weeks to months on end. I mean, if you're in need of a blood transfusion and are pregnant, you'll be damn lucky just to keep yourself alive, not to mention the tumor, eh, I mean fetus, inside. Not that I mean one should drench them in stuff like finasteride, but T, come on...
    Blood with morphine in it wouldn't be perfect either, but again, come on..
    Hormones teratogenic potential are usually dose related.
    Doing a test cycle when pregnant might not be totally responsible to say the least, but blood?

    Which actually brings me to a family anecdote, one of my great great something or other (can't remember) women, who was a total abstinence (in regards to alcohol and tobacco) freak needed a blood transfusion, and due to it being a small town they didn't have her blood type on hand, so they called one of the men from my family who matched, who was seriously drunk.
    It's such a good story I really can't believe it to be true, at least not that she was affected by it, but I want to believe.
    (And I do have some crazy family anectodes which are way worse that I do know to be true, so who knows?)

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •