25 yo w/low test - advice sought

[m_s]

Stats:
bf: ~15%
weight: 80kg (176lbs)
height: 174cm (5'8")
age: 25

Lads,

I first thought I had low testosterone back in late 2013 and went to the Doctor about it. I was still in the military at the time and the old boy of a Doc had a hard time believing a bloke my age (22ish) was having trouble shagging his girlfriend etc etc and generally feeling like a sack of shit.

Time passed until late last year when I hired a new trainer and he convinced me to get my blood work done because I was having trouble with recovery, strength, fat loss and libido; i'd also become more anxious which was non-existent during my time in the military. I knew in the back of my head the results weren't going to be pretty because a 25 year old lad should still be ripe with morning erections instead of making excuses of why he can't have a shag (fucking miserable prick!).

The results came back and they are as follows:
Total Test 11.9 nmol/L (11.0 - 32.0)
Free test 248 pmol/L (90 - 580)
DHEAS 7.5 umol/L (2.4 - 12.0)
TSH 1.55 mIU/L (0.40 - 4.0)
Typical blood panel with nothing out of the ordinary - white blood cells were down but i was getting over a common cold.

The original GP who ordered these tests sent me on my way but I consulted with my trainer and he sent back to a GP and now i've been referred to an endocrinologist as a result. After my doing my own research into the topic and realising I have the T levels of a 70 year old was, to the say least, quite depressing.

I certainly haven't always been like this. When I was 18 it was pretty easy for me to go 7 nights a week with my girlfriend, sometimes twice a night. I know that's typical 18 year old behaviour but I didn't think i'd experience such a decline so quickly...

In the interest of disclaiming absolutely everything, which I only remembered after I saw my GP, I stupidly cycled steroids for approx 5 weeks during my time in the military; twice with no PCT, and the third time with a lacklustre PCT that lasted a fortnight.

First cycle was (hard to remember): sus250, 500mg p/week back in 2010
Second cycle was: prop + deca (can't remember dosages, pinned 3 x a week) back in 2012
Third cycle: prop + tren a (pinned 3 a week) + pct of nolva and clomid back in early 2013

When I see the endocrinologist i'll be telling him everything. I'm not after TRT, and in fact I don't think my levels are low enough to qualify (you have to be <6 nmol/L for total test). The thought of pinning myself for the rest of my life isn't good; conversely, the thought of having low testosterone levels is even worse considering I still remember what it was like when I felt I had higher T levels. Further, I didn't get any bloodwork done pre-steroid cycles so therefore I don't have a baseline to go off unfortunately.

The reason I write all of this is to pick the brains of the knowledgeable folks on the likeliest course of action my endo will take. I want to go in fully prepared so I can have all of the right questions to ask and understand the possible courses of action. I tried to search for similar people in my positions, but it was all within 1 year of steroid use . I havent touched the gear in 3-4 years. I anticipate being put on nolvadex or something similar, but I really don't know. My trainer reckons his clients have taken nolvadex and it has raised test levels naturally to a point where they remain elevated when they come off nolva.

Bottom line is I shouldn't have cycled without having any clue, but the deed is done and i'm seeking to rectify it with knowledge before I see my endo.

[ScotchGuard02]

Nolvadex is one half of a full PCT. You already know that cycling AAS, when young, can affect your natural Test level. It's amazing how many young guys won't believe this is true. So, what to do now? I would run a full 4 week PCT with Nolvadex (40/20/20/20) and Clomid (100/50/50/50). That's the daily dose per week. Wait 6 weeks after PCT and get blood work again. If your T level hasn't changed then I would think your condition is permanent. You have to decide if you want to get on TRT (it's really not that bad. I'm on TRT and one poke a week to have a good quality of life is worth it) or keep the status quo. Based on your current blood work, I think your endo's going to say you're fine. Most doc's are not keen on TRT. Especially, if your T's in the "normal" range. Good luck.

[hammerheart]

When I see the endocrinologist i'll be telling him everything. I'm not after TRT, and in fact I don't think my levels are low enough to qualify (you have to be <6 nmol/L for total test). The thought of pinning myself for the rest of my life isn't good; conversely, the thought of having low testosterone levels is even worse considering I still remember what it was like when I felt I had higher T levels. Further, I didn't get any bloodwork done pre-steroid cycles so therefore I don't have a baseline to go off unfortunately.

If you don't fall below range today it's likely you will very soon down the road, imo you should already push for TRT instead of going through what remains of your 20s with low t. It's just a matter of time.

SERMs might work as well and restore youthful T levels yet many people don't feel better this way, but it's indeed worth a try.


Good luck.

[m_s]

thanks for your reply.

i have a feeling my endo wont put me on TRT because youre right, im in range, but theres a chance he'll prescribe a PCT for me?

im okay with taking matters into my own hands and sourcing my own nolva and clomid, but id rather wait until after I see the endo. if i start now and raise my test levels, effectively compromising the test, i could prevent myself from acquiring the PCT legitimately.

[m_s]

Nolvadex is one half of a full PCT. You already know that cycling AAS, when young, can affect your natural Test level. It's amazing how many young guys won't believe this is true. So, what to do now? I would run a full 4 week PCT with Nolvadex (40/20/20/20) and Clomid (100/50/50/50). That's the daily dose per week. Wait 6 weeks after PCT and get blood work again. If your T level hasn't changed then I would think your condition is permanent. You have to decide if you want to get on TRT (it's really not that bad. I'm on TRT and one poke a week to have a good quality of life is worth it) or keep the status quo. Based on your current blood work, I think your endo's going to say you're fine. Most doc's are not keen on TRT. Especially, if your T's in the "normal" range. Good luck.

thanks for your reply.

i have a feeling my endo wont put me on TRT because youre right, im in range, but theres a chance he'll prescribe a PCT for me?

im okay with taking matters into my own hands and sourcing my own nolva and clomid, but id rather wait until after I see the endo. if i start now and raise my test levels, effectively compromising the test, i could prevent myself from acquiring the PCT legitimately.

[m_s]

If you don't fall below range today it's likely you will very soon down the road, imo you should already push for TRT instead of going through what remains of your 20s with low t. It's just a matter of time.

SERMs might work as well and restore youthful T levels yet many people don't feel better this way, but it's indeed worth a try.


Good luck.

when you say restore, you mean maintaining higher levels of T without reliance on SERMs every day/week etc?

i might not have so much of an issue with TRT if fertility wasnt an issue. i do plan on having kids, just not yet for a few years (5+?)

[kelkel]

i might not have so much of an issue with TRT if fertility wasnt an issue. i do plan on having kids, just not yet for a few years (5+?)

Maintain fertility by using HCG .

[hammerheart]

when you say restore, you mean maintaining higher levels of T without reliance on SERMs every day/week etc?

i might not have so much of an issue with TRT if fertility wasnt an issue. i do plan on having kids, just not yet for a few years (5+?)

HCG can well account for fertility. It aids with both testes trophism and sperm counts.

Your T levels are likely to return to baseline once you discontinue SERMs, but everything is possible. I just meant them as form of TRT.