New Labs to Share

[Youthful55guy]

I got some new lab results to share along with my interpretations.

Previously (08 May 2018), my protocol was protocol was 0.25 mL Every 3 Days (E3D) of a blended T ester that provides about 164/18 mg/mL T-cyp/T-prop. Taking into account the different percentages of T and ester, this blend and this dose delivers about 40.9 mg T-cyp (27.9 mg T) & 4.6 mg T-prop (3.8 mg T) = 31.7 mg T/3 days = 10.6 mg T/day. This is about 114% of my prescribed dose. By comparison, the average male produces about 7 mg of T per day (http://www.sportsci.org/encyc/testos...tosterone.html).

Other Medications

• HCG = 150 IU/Day (~1050 IU/wk) - Did not discontinue prior to test.
• Anastrozol: ~0.5 mg/week (5 drops daily of 1mg/1.5 mL Vodka)
• Winstol: 5 mg/day (0.25mg AM&PM)
• Lipitor: 10mg/day (1XPM)
• Armour Thyroid = 60mg (dropped down from 90 mg ~30 weeks before test (should be steady)
• GH releasing peptides: 11 weeks before test changed protocol from 250/313 IPA/CJC-1295 1X daily before bed to 200/250 2X per day (400/500 per day). Should be stable IGF-1 to evaluate new 2X protocol.

Supplements (Hormone Related)

• Zinc Picolinate (100 mg/day) & Copper 4mcg/day
• D3 (4000 IU/day)
• 25 mg DHEA
• 50 mg Pregnenolone
• 6 mg Boron (3mg AM&PM)

Saw Palmetto & Pygeum

• Total Daily dose of Saw Extract = 884 mg Saw Extract
• Total daily Pygeum dose = 400 mg X 13% Phytosterols = 52 mg Pygeum Extract

Prior Labs (08 May 2018) at above protocol

• Total T: 862 ng/dL (264 – 916)
• Free T: 25.7 pg/mL (6.6 - 18.1)
• DHT: 109 ng/dL (30 – 85) – down from 205 in NOV 2017
• SHBG: 34.7 nmol/L (19.3 - 76.4)
• Estradiol: 22.5 pg/ mL (8.0 - 35.0)
• TSH: 3.0 uIU/mL (0.45 - 4.5)
• T3: 3.2 pg/mL (2.0 - 4.4)
• T4: 1.2 ng/dL (0.82 - 1.77)
• Prolactin: 8.8 pg/mL (4.0 - 15.2)
• IGF-1: 157 ng/mL (49 – 188)

 

Currently (16 July 2018), my protocol uses the same T ester blend, but I dropped the dose from 0.25 mL to 0.22 mL E3D. This provides about 9.3 mg T/day, which is 100% of my prescribed dose.

Other Medications

• HCG = 150 IU/Day (~1050 IU/wk) - Did not discontinue prior to test. - Unchanged
• Anastrozol: ~0.3 mg/week (3 drops daily of 1mg/1.5 mL Vodka) – Down from 0.5 mg previously
• Winstol: 5 mg/day (0.25mg AM&PM) - Unchanged
• Lipitor: 10mg/day (1XPM) - Unchanged
• Armour Thyroid = 45mg (dropped down from 60 mg (should be steady)
• GH releasing peptides: Changed protocol from 200/250 2X per day (400/500 per day) . IPA/CJC-1295 to 300/125 2X daily (total daily dose 600/250).

Supplements (Hormone Related) – All Unchanged

• Zinc Picolinate (100 mg/day) & Copper 4mcg/day
• D3 (4000 IU/day)
• 25 mg DHEA
• 50 mg Pregnenolone
• 6 mg Boron (3mg AM&PM)

Saw Palmetto & Pygeum

• Total Daily dose of Saw Extract = 1,836 mg Saw Extract – 2X prior labs
• Total daily Pygeum dose = 450 mg X 13% Phytosterols = 58.5 mg Pygeum Extract - 1.13X last labs

Current Labs (16 July 2018)

• Total T: 996 ng/dL (264 – 916)
• Free T: 28.7 pg/mL (6.6 - 18.1)
• DHT: 103 ng/dL (30 – 85)
• SHBG: 37.3 nmol/L (19.3 - 76.4)
• Estradiol: 22.4 pg/ mL (8.0 - 35.0)
• TSH: 4.2 uIU/mL (0.45 - 4.5)
• T3: 2.9 pg/mL (2.0 - 4.4)
• T4: 1.4 ng/dL (0.82 - 1.77)
• Prolactin: 13.5 pg/mL (4.0 - 15.2)
• IGF-1: 123 ng/mL (49 – 188)

Notes & Conclusions from Current Labs
- This test evaluates the effect of current (higher) Saw & Pygeum protocol with a lower dose TRT protocol at 100% of prescribed dose (previously 114% of prescribed)

DHT: Still of the range. Cost of this much Say/Pygeum is prohibitive. Need to lower T dose more and/or live with borderline high DHT. Plan to decrease Saw/Pygeum dose down to label recommended dose (2X caps each 2X per day). Not interested in trialing Finasteride at this time.

Total T: Up slightly from prior lab, probably due to a slight increase in SHBG. Higher than my target 800-900 ng/dL and slightly higher than the upper end of the 'normal' range.

SHBG: About perfect at 5 mg Stanozolol per day, but thyroid hormones are at the low end of the range. Therefore, I suspect that SHBG might go up when I increase Armour Thyroid back to 60 mg/day. This will help to bring Free T closer to range but may bump up Total T a little more. May need to reduce Total T a little more to optimize. Consider 40mg/day (0.2 mL of pure T-cyp), which is about 98% of prescribed dose, but at a steadier state than with T-Prop mixed in.

IGF-1: This test was supposed to evaluate optimization of amounts and ratios of IPA and CJC-1295 200/250 mcg 2X daily (Total daily dose of 400/500) to 300/125 2X daily (total daily dose 600/250). It's difficult to determine if the drop in IGF-1 is serendipitous or an actual result of the change in protocol. Plan to increase frequency to 3X per day and increasing dose to about 900 mcg IPA per day (300 3X), while keeping the more expensive CJC-1295 relatively constant at about 250-300 mcg. Need to reformulate with HCG to account for 3X dosing and need to evaluate cost of the program too. Goal is to maintain >200 ng/mL IGF-1, which is about the 50th percentile for a 25-35 year old man.

Estradiol: I dropped the dose of anastrozole from 0.5 to 0.3 mg per week (5 drops per day to 3 drops per day). is well within range at 3 drops (0.3 mg) anastrozole per day. E did not change at all and is in a good range. There may be benefit for GH secretion to letting E drift up a little. I plan to discontinue all anastrozole to see whether E control is even needed with my protocol, particularly if I drop T-prop from the mix.

Liver Enzymes: This test evaluated the effect of 5 mg stanozolol in combination with 1 naproxen per day on liver enzymes. AST, ALT and Alk. Phos. were all within range. Therefore, current protocol does not appear to overly tax the liver.

Thyroid Hormones: Decreased Armour Thyroid dose from 60 mg to 45 mg per day. It looks like 45 mg may be too low. T3, T4 and TSH were all within range, but nearing the low range for T3/T4 and high range for TSH. I plan to increase the dose back to 60 mg per day and leave it there. There appears to be enough suppression of SHBG with Stanozolol to compensate.

[Couchlockd]

Do just crush up a Anastrozole tab into 1.5ml high proof grain alcohol?

Good idea.

[Windex]

Supplements (Hormone Related)
Zinc Picolinate (100 mg/day) & Copper 4mcg/day
D3 (4000 IU/day)
25 mg DHEA
50 mg Pregnenolone
6 mg Boron (3mg AM&PM)


Saw Palmetto & Pygeum
Total Daily dose of Saw Extract = 884 mg Saw Extract
Total daily Pygeum dose = 400 mg X 13% Phytosterols = 52 mg Pygeum Extract


Can you explain the purpose of each of these ? I am on Vitamin D3 myself at 3666IU per day. Trying to learn about supplements and TRT but it's a sea of information and I find myself overwhelmed easily.

Also, why the winny? Do you get any drying of the joints or any general side effects at such a small dose?

[kelkel]

Can you explain the purpose of each of these ? I am on Vitamin D3 myself at 3666IU per day. Trying to learn about supplements and TRT but it's a sea of information and I find myself overwhelmed easily.

For future reference check out www.examine.com. Best unbiased vitamin / supplement site on the web, imho.

[kelkel]

 

Current Labs (16 July 2018)

• Total T: 996 ng/dL (264 – 916)
• Free T: 28.7 pg/mL (6.6 - 18.1)
• DHT: 103 ng/dL (30 – 85)
• SHBG: 37.3 nmol/L (19.3 - 76.4)
• Estradiol: 22.4 pg/ mL (8.0 - 35.0)
• TSH: 4.2 uIU/mL (0.45 - 4.5)
• T3: 2.9 pg/mL (2.0 - 4.4)
• T4: 1.4 ng/dL (0.82 - 1.77)
• Prolactin: 13.5 pg/mL (4.0 - 15.2)
• IGF-1: 123 ng/mL (49 – 188)

Notes & Conclusions from Current Labs
- This test evaluates the effect of current (higher) Saw & Pygeum protocol with a lower dose TRT protocol at 100% of prescribed dose (previously 114% of prescribed)

But more than one test (as you know) will be needed to properly evaluate it.

DHT: Still of the range. Cost of this much Say/Pygeum is prohibitive. Need to lower T dose more and/or live with borderline high DHT. Plan to decrease Saw/Pygeum dose down to label recommended dose (2X caps each 2X per day). Not interested in trialing Finasteride at this time.

Your DHT isn't high at all imho. I've found over the years that most everyone on TRT has an elevated dht level. Mine surely is as well before fina.

Total T: Up slightly from prior lab, probably due to a slight increase in SHBG. Higher than my target 800-900 ng/dL and slightly higher than the upper end of the 'normal' range.

Snapshot in time though

SHBG: About perfect at 5 mg Stanozolol per day, but thyroid hormones are at the low end of the range. Therefore, I suspect that SHBG might go up when I increase Armour Thyroid back to 60 mg/day. This will help to bring Free T closer to range but may bump up Total T a little more. May need to reduce Total T a little more to optimize. Consider 40mg/day (0.2 mL of pure T-cyp), which is about 98% of prescribed dose, but at a steadier state than with T-Prop mixed in.

Yes and yes.

IGF-1: This test was supposed to evaluate optimization of amounts and ratios of IPA and CJC-1295 200/250 mcg 2X daily (Total daily dose of 400/500) to 300/125 2X daily (total daily dose 600/250). It's difficult to determine if the drop in IGF-1 is serendipitous or an actual result of the change in protocol. Plan to increase frequency to 3X per day and increasing dose to about 900 mcg IPA per day (300 3X), while keeping the more expensive CJC-1295 relatively constant at about 250-300 mcg. Need to reformulate with HCG to account for 3X dosing and need to evaluate cost of the program too. Goal is to maintain >200 ng/mL IGF-1, which is about the 50th percentile for a 25-35 year old man.

Always found it hard to obtain consistency with peptides.

Estradiol: I dropped the dose of anastrozole from 0.5 to 0.3 mg per week (5 drops per day to 3 drops per day). is well within range at 3 drops (0.3 mg) anastrozole per day. E did not change at all and is in a good range. There may be benefit for GH secretion to letting E drift up a little. I plan to discontinue all anastrozole to see whether E control is even needed with my protocol, particularly if I drop T-prop from the mix.

Solid! In my opinion you'd be fine with your E2 at the top of the range or slightly higher. For me there's a noticable difference in libido from mid range E2 to slightly above range. It also allows for higher IGF-1 and GH levels as well.

Liver Enzymes: This test evaluated the effect of 5 mg stanozolol in combination with 1 naproxen per day on liver enzymes. AST, ALT and Alk. Phos. were all within range. Therefore, current protocol does not appear to overly tax the liver.

Thyroid Hormones: Decreased Armour Thyroid dose from 60 mg to 45 mg per day. It looks like 45 mg may be too low. T3, T4 and TSH were all within range, but nearing the low range for T3/T4 and high range for TSH. I plan to increase the dose back to 60 mg per day and leave it there. There appears to be enough suppression of SHBG with Stanozolol to compensate.

Good stuff as always 55!

[Youthful55guy]

Do just crush up a Anastrozole tab into 1.5ml high proof grain alcohol?

Good idea.

No need to crush. It dissolves in a minute or so. I wrote a thread describing my procedure with links to obtain supplies: https://forums.steroid.com/hormone-r...astrozole.html

[Youthful55guy]

Supplements (Hormone Related)
Zinc Picolinate (100 mg/day) & Copper 4mcg/day
D3 (4000 IU/day)
25 mg DHEA
50 mg Pregnenolone
6 mg Boron (3mg AM&PM)


Saw Palmetto & Pygeum
Total Daily dose of Saw Extract = 884 mg Saw Extract
Total daily Pygeum dose = 400 mg X 13% Phytosterols = 52 mg Pygeum Extract


Can you explain the purpose of each of these ? I am on Vitamin D3 myself at 3666IU per day. Trying to learn about supplements and TRT but it's a sea of information and I find myself overwhelmed easily.

Also, why the winny? Do you get any drying of the joints or any general side effects at such a small dose?

Zinc Picolinate (100 mg/day) & Copper 4mcg/day
Zinc is supposed to be a natural E suppressor. My original TRT doc, who is one of the big names in the business, originally got me started on this. He recommends 200 mg/day, but I feel that is too high. Zinc is also involved with hundreds of metabolic processes in the body, many related to hormone production, so it is a good idea to supplement. You MUST balance the zinc with copper, about 2 mcg copper per 50 mg zinc.


D3 (4000 IU/day)
D3 helps to suppress SHBG production. I have genetically high SHBG which sucks up my T and drives down my Free T, which is more important than Total T. I have found through multiple labs that 4,000 IU per day (2,000 AM & 2,000 PM) is about right for me to keep it in a healthy range.

25 mg DHEA
50 mg Pregnenolone
Both DHEA and Pregnenolone are precursors to a large number of steroid hormones. Both hormones are dependent on LH to stimulate production. Again, my original TRT doc got me started on this. When you are on TRT, LH production goes down to zero, so these hormones tend to dry up. There are also other benefits to health (particularly in the brain) for having normal levels of these hormones. If you are supplementing with HCG , then there is less of a need to supplement with these hormones, but my TRT doc still recommends it.


6 mg Boron (3mg AM&PM)
Boron is supposed to suppress SHBG, but I have not found it to be particularly effective. I take it anyway because it is cheap.


I take very small doses of stanozolole (generic Winstrol) because it is EXTREMLY effective at suppressing SHBG production. Without it, my SHBG levels are near 100 nmol/L. This high level makes it difficult to keep free T within a healthy range without pushing Total T over 1500, which is not sustainable. No, I do not have any joint issues with it. Keep in mind that I am only taking 5 mg per day. By comparison, bodybuilders take 40 to 100 mg per day for anabolic effects. At 5 mg per day, I have no delusions of ever getting "big", although I've found that keeping Free T at the upper end of the normal range does have its benefits in the gym.

[Quester]

For future reference check out www.examine.com. Best unbiased vitamin / supplement site on the web, imho.

Consumer labs is helpful also. https://www.consumerlab.com/

[Windex]

Zinc Picolinate (100 mg/day) & Copper 4mcg/day
Zinc is supposed to be a natural E suppressor. My original TRT doc, who is one of the big names in the business, originally got me started on this. He recommends 200 mg/day, but I feel that is too high. Zinc is also involved with hundreds of metabolic processes in the body, many related to hormone production, so it is a good idea to supplement. You MUST balance the zinc with copper, about 2 mcg copper per 50 mg zinc.


D3 (4000 IU/day)
D3 helps to suppress SHBG production. I have genetically high SHBG which sucks up my T and drives down my Free T, which is more important than Total T. I have found through multiple labs that 4,000 IU per day (2,000 AM & 2,000 PM) is about right for me to keep it in a healthy range.

25 mg DHEA
50 mg Pregnenolone
Both DHEA and Pregnenolone are precursors to a large number of steroid hormones. Both hormones are dependent on LH to stimulate production. Again, my original TRT doc got me started on this. When you are on TRT, LH production goes down to zero, so these hormones tend to dry up. There are also other benefits to health (particularly in the brain) for having normal levels of these hormones. If you are supplementing with HCG , then there is less of a need to supplement with these hormones, but my TRT doc still recommends it.


6 mg Boron (3mg AM&PM)
Boron is supposed to suppress SHBG, but I have not found it to be particularly effective. I take it anyway because it is cheap.


I take very small doses of stanozolole (generic Winstrol) because it is EXTREMLY effective at suppressing SHBG production. Without it, my SHBG levels are near 100 nmol/L. This high level makes it difficult to keep free T within a healthy range without pushing Total T over 1500, which is not sustainable. No, I do not have any joint issues with it. Keep in mind that I am only taking 5 mg per day. By comparison, bodybuilders take 40 to 100 mg per day for anabolic effects. At 5 mg per day, I have no delusions of ever getting "big", although I've found that keeping Free T at the upper end of the normal range does have its benefits in the gym.

Noted and thanks for info.

[Windex]

For future reference check out www.examine.com. Best unbiased vitamin / supplement site on the web, imho.

Bookmarked for Future use, thanks.

[kelkel]

YG55 are your preg and dhea supps micronized? If so, what brand do you prefer?

[Youthful55guy]

Given that they are steroid in nature, I wonder if micritization is really necessary. I actually have no idea. Anyway....

Pregnenolone = MRM brand - Yes Micronized - Limited availability from my supplement supplier and cost pretty much drive the decision.

DHEA = Life Extension Brand - Label does not say either way, so I'm guessing not. Again, availability drives the decision. My regular supplier will not ship this hormone to California, so I order directly from the manufacturer.

[kelkel]

Everything I've read says it helps survive the first pass through the liver. That said, I've never really seen much of a difference (labs) or felt a difference on or off them so I stopped them a few years ago. I've used both brands you listed and I believe LE is micronized.

[Youthful55guy]

Everything I've read says it helps survive the first pass through the liver. That said, I've never really seen much of a difference (labs) or felt a difference on or off them so I stopped them a few years ago. I've used both brands you listed and I believe LE is micronized.

Yea, I'm not convinced they make much of a difference, but my hormone doc seemed to think they were a good idea. Their inexpensive, so I keep them on my supplement shelf. I think as long as you have HCG in the mix, they are completely optional. However, without HGC in the protocol, I think they are a good idea.

[Windex]

Given that they are steroid in nature, I wonder if micritization is really necessary. I actually have no idea. Anyway....

Pregnenolone = MRM brand - Yes Micronized - Limited availability from my supplement supplier and cost pretty much drive the decision.
might be worthwhile to poke my doctor for a script...
DHEA = Life Extension Brand - Label does not say either way, so I'm guessing not. Again, availability drives the decision. My regular supplier will not ship this hormone to California, so I order directly from the manufacturer.

How much do you pay for these ? DHEA is a controlled substance in Canada and banned as a supplement. Do either of these exist as a prescription? Wondering if I can poke my Doctor

[Youthful55guy]

How much do you pay for these ? DHEA is a controlled substance in Canada and banned as a supplement. Do either of these exist as a prescription? Wondering if I can poke my Doctor

Laws vary by state. California for example does not allow the sale of DHEA in stores, but does allow pregnenelone. I my regular supplement supplier will not ship DHEA to California, but another one will, so I go with the other one.

Regarding cost, they are relatively inexpensive, though I am not particularly price sensitive. DHEA 25 mg tabs cost between $0.04 and $0.27 USD per tablet, depending on the brand and bottle size count. Mine cost about $0.10 per tablet. Pregnenelone 30 mg cost about the same as DHEA. AMAZON has a good selection here in the USA.

[PeanutbutterDC]

Laws vary by state. California for example does not allow the sale of DHEA in stores, but does allow pregnenelone. I my regular supplement supplier will not ship DHEA to California, but another one will, so I go with the other one.

Regarding cost, they are relatively inexpensive, though I am not particularly price sensitive. DHEA 25 mg tabs cost between $0.04 and $0.27 USD per tablet, depending on the brand and bottle size count. Mine cost about $0.10 per tablet. Pregnenelone 30 mg cost about the same as DHEA. AMAZON has a good selection here in the USA.

I'm in California and have ordered dhea from Amazon many times. Didn't realize it was unavailable in stores here

[Youthful55guy]

I'm in California and have ordered dhea from Amazon many times. Didn't realize it was unavailable in stores here

Yeah, ridiculous. They banned it a couple years ago, but they have a difficult time regulating interstate commerce.

[Windex]

Laws vary by state. California for example does not allow the sale of DHEA in stores, but does allow pregnenelone. I my regular supplement supplier will not ship DHEA to California, but another one will, so I go with the other one.

Regarding cost, they are relatively inexpensive, though I am not particularly price sensitive. DHEA 25 mg tabs cost between $0.04 and $0.27 USD per tablet, depending on the brand and bottle size count. Mine cost about $0.10 per tablet. Pregnenelone 30 mg cost about the same as DHEA. AMAZON has a good selection here in the USA.

Thanks for the information. I found a local store that actually carries it, $20.00 for 60 tabs @ 25mg but online $40.00 shipped for 300 tabs, can't go wrong with that. Are you taking the DHEA with food and any particular time of day ?

[Youthful55guy]

Thanks for the information. I found a local store that actually carries it, $20.00 for 60 tabs @ 25mg but online $40.00 shipped for 300 tabs, can't go wrong with that. Are you taking the DHEA with food and any particular time of day ?

I just take it with my normal evening supplements. Usually right after dinner. As I said previously, I'm not overly concerned about DHEA levels, as I supplement with HCG and that replaces the lost LH signal for initiating both testicular and adrenal steroidogenesis.

[Youthful55guy]

UPDATE ON NEW LABS

Lab draw on 23 October 2018. These labs aren't as straight forward as my normal labs with my current standard protocol of 0.22mL of 200mg/mL T-cyp (100%) E3D + 0.25mg stanozolol 2X per day. These new labs are for my annual physical exam, which means I have to stop the stanozolol ahead of the lab draw so the doc sees what she is used to seeing. I don't want to share with her that I am treating my high SHBG on my own. Also, I drop the dose of T prior to the labs so that she doesn't freak out with the higher than range Total T. Recall that I've posted many times that high SHBG will drive up your Total T because it binds and protects it from liver metabolism while at the same time starves your brain of Free T, which cannot pass through the blood-brain barrier in a bound state.

So, my pre-appointment protocol is to stop stanozolol at least 7 days in advance of the labs and to drop my T-cyp to 0.2mL 6 days out and to 0.17mL 3 days out.

Other Medications
HCG = 0 IU/Day - Different than prior labs I've posted. I discontinued for 3 weeks prior while on vacation.
Anastrozol: ~0 mg/week - I discontinued completely a couple months ago.
Winstol: 0 mg/day (0.25mg AM&PM) - discontinued 7 days out
Lipitor: 10mg/day (1XPM) - Unchanged
Armour Thyroid = 60mg - raised it back up from 45mg/day several months ago (should be steady by now)
GH releasing peptides: C- Different than prior labs I've posted. I discontinued for 3 weeks prior while on vacation.

Supplements (Hormone Related) – All Unchanged
Zinc Picolinate (100 mg/day) & Copper 4mcg/day
D3 (4000 IU/day)
25 mg DHEA
50 mg Pregnenolone
6 mg Boron (3mg AM&PM)

Current Labs (10 October 2018)
Total T: 779 ng/dL (241 – 827)
Free T: 9.1 pg/mL (2 - 13.5)
Bioavailable T: 213.7 ng/dL (48 - 317)
DHT: Not Tested
SHBG: 81.6 nmol/L (17.3 - 65.8)
Estradiol: Not Tested
TSH: 5.6 uIU/mL (0.35 - 5.5)
T3: Not Tested
T4: 1.2 ng/dL (0.8 - 1.7)
Prolactin: Not Tested
IGF-1: Not Tested

Notes & Conclusions from Current Labs
- This test evaluates the effect of discontinuing treatment of SHBG with stanozolol

Total T: Down from prior lab (996), due to a decrease in dose described above and much higher SHBG.

Free T & Bioavailable T: Free has dropped way down but still in range. Same for Bioavailable. I'm not concerned. They will rebound after I resume stanozolol and force SHBG back to the normal range.

SHBG: Way, way up. No doubt that very low dose stanozolol is working for me.

Liver Enzymes: They were slightly elevated and higher than the normal range. This is most likely because I forgot to discontinue daily naproxen until 5 days prior to the lab draw. Also may reflect higher than normal alcohol consumption while I was on vacation. I'll retest on my own in a couple of months to verify.

Thyroid Hormones: I'm a little concerned that my TSH is moving up and slightly out of range. I don't think I want to increase my Armour dose at this time because it may drive up SHBG and force me to increase my stanozolol dose. I think I let it ride at the current dose and reevaluate in a couple months.