Advice needed

[jwdekzw]

I am not really a bodybuilder but wouldn't mind building muscle, loosing weight and increasing my energy levels not to mention my libido, I am a 60 year old male 200 lbs 5'11' and have hypertension and hypogonadism (low T). Unfortunately the doctors I have visited in the past 4 years have treated me with just Testosterone gel and later Test C injections with no ancillary med.s ie ( AI) and later I visited and endocrinologist since the TRT wasn't effective, this doctor believed my pain medication was the culprit and put me on a regimen of just clomid for about 2 years until I had some bad sides. About 2 months ago I decided to try an HRT clinic and was placed on 300mg Test C /wk, 3 mg Anastrozole /wk , 20 mg exemestene/wk and 100mg deca /wk for joint pain for a cycle to last 20 weeks, for the last 2 weeks I have supplemented the test dose with and additional 200mg/wk because to be honest I am not feeling to much of a benefit and I also added 100mg of Tren E /wk, I understand the dangers of hyperprolactinemia using a double 19-nor steroid and have cabergoline on hand, but am thinking I am on such low doses it isn't a problem plus I take plenty vitamin B6. My question is should I be using HCG also on cycle mainly to dissuade testicular atrophy or because of my age it isn't necessary,? also if there are any issues anyone sees with my current regimen please advise, I haven't had blood work since I started in November and was also wondering how often should I be checking.

Any help will be appreciated, most of you guys know more about this stuff then do the doctors!

[Old Duffer]

1) yes HCG
2) had you not added the extra 200 mg test two weeks ago I'd say get bloods now but they won't be accurate now till after the end of the year. Nevertheless get them done!
3) I can just about guarantee that you are taking way too much AI. Your estrogen wwill be super low and you will feel like crap
4) drop the tren for now. Save it for when you are ready to really make a go of it! You are not ready yet. You will be, but you need more knowledge; more data; more bloodwork.

Stick around! Keep us posted :-)

[jwdekzw]

1) yes HCG
2) had you not added the extra 200 mg test two weeks ago I'd say get bloods now but they won't be accurate now till after the end of the year. Nevertheless get them done!
3) I can just about guarantee that you are taking way too much AI. Your estrogen wwill be super low and you will feel like crap
4) drop the tren for now. Save it for when you are ready to really make a go of it! You are not ready yet. You will be, but you need more knowledge; more data; more bloodwork.

Stick around! Keep us posted :-)

Thanks for the reply
What would you start off with on the hcg and work up too? And for how long?

[Ephemeral]

Thanks for the reply
What would you start off with on the hcg and work up too? And for how long?

You should take HCG as long as you're on TRT. It's important to keep the testes healthy and for the production of DHEA and pregnenolone hormones. Dosage is between 500 and 1000 IU, if money is not an issue then you can shoot for the higher end of the range but it doesn't matter much.

Also I hope you know that 500mg test a week is not sustainable, not to mention the other stuff you're taking. Anything above 200mg is not sustainable in the long run for most people, and everyone should start with around 100mg and only increase it if it's needed. Personally even 100 is too much for me. And keep in mind that steroids increase blood pressure, and you already have a problem with that. Also pinning twice a week instead of once is better, to provide more stable test levels. Please read this:

https://forums.steroid.com/hormone-r...rting-trt.html

[jwdekzw]

You should take HCG as long as you're on TRT. It's important to keep the testes healthy and for the production of DHEA and pregnenolone hormones. Dosage is between 500 and 1000 IU, if money is not an issue then you can shoot for the higher end of the range but it doesn't matter much.

Also I hope you know that 500mg test a week is not sustainable, not to mention the other stuff you're taking. Anything above 200mg is not sustainable in the long run for most people, and everyone should start with around 100mg and only increase it if it's needed. Personally even 100 is too much for me. And keep in mind that steroids increase blood pressure, and you already have a problem with that. Also pinning twice a week instead of once is better, to provide more stable test levels. Please read this:

https://forums.steroid.com/hormone-r...rting-trt.html

Thank you for your input:
Everything I am currently taking with the exception of the Tren and the 200mg extra of testosterone is under supervision of a doctor.
Initially because of the pain medications (opiates) my free and total Testosterone were tanked low for even female levels. My current doctor has taken the pain medication into consideration when he prescribed 300mg/week. I can stop the extra 200mg/week of test pending labs and the tren as some have advised, but since the AI is prescribed what would be advisable to take or should I stop AI completely until there are symptons? Also should I cycle off earlier than the 20 weeks as the clinic has prescribed? If I cycle off how long should I do PCT and with what meds.

[Ephemeral]

Thank you for your input:
Everything I am currently taking with the exception of the Tren and the 200mg extra of testosterone is under supervision of a doctor.
Initially because of the pain medications (opiates) my free and total Testosterone were tanked low for even female levels. My current doctor has taken the pain medication into consideration when he prescribed 300mg/week. I can stop the extra 200mg/week of test pending labs and the tren as some have advised, but since the AI is prescribed what would be advisable to take or should I stop AI completely until there are symptons? Also should I cycle off earlier than the 20 weeks as the clinic has prescribed? If I cycle off how long should I do PCT and with what meds.

Were your levels low before TRT or on TRT too? Do you have the labs results from then? If your starting dose was 300mg then your doctor doesn't know what he's doing. I don't know how opiates affect a TRT protocol but I doubt it has a big effect since you inject test and don't rely on your natural production (but I could be wrong). Not sure what the best dosage for AI is without labs but 3mg is definitely too much. You don't cycle off TRT. If your levels are very low then you have to be on it for life. This protocol won't restart/increase your natural T production, on the contrary it suppresses to zero, so if you try to come off you'll have even lower levels until (if) you return to your previous low levels. If restart/increase was the goal then this was the wrong way to go about, the right choice woulda been clomid or some other SERM. Since you're 60 and you have your opiate problem I doubt that would work though.

So you have 2 choices, you either stop and live with low levels or you stay on TRT for life, it's up to you. If you decide to stay on TRT, I would dial in your protocol so you keep your numbers in range, and then maybe later on you can do some "cycles" where you temporarily increase your dose or add more steroids , this is what we call a blast.

[Ephemeral]

On a side note, HRT clinics usually suck. They have outdated protocols, they often prescribe too much stuff, they rip people off with their prices and require them to go in for a visit for the injections so they can charge for that too etc.

[Ephemeral]

Also I have no idea why your doctor gave you 2 types of AI (other than to rip you off). For a comparison, people who cycle with 500mg test take 0.25mg anastrozole EOD so about 0.9mg a week OR 25mg exemestene daily (175 a week). But it varies a lot from person to person, that's why you need labs.

[Couchlockd]

I guess trt clinics are just basically providing test cycles these days?

What happens when patients start getting fucked up from such protocols?

Do they at least warn that this is not trt,, but medical supervised cycles and support?

[Chrisp83TRT]

I guess trt clinics are just basically providing test cycles these days?

What happens when patients start getting fucked up from such protocols?

Do they at least warn that this is not trt,, but medical supervised cycles and support?

Shit doesn't make any sense anymore.

Dudes on 200-400mg minimum of test every week prescribed by these trt doctors .. like wtf is that ? And then sometimes say no to HCG or AI's ? How does any of this make sense.

Starting to think it's all about the money

Sent from my JSN-AL00 using Tapatalk

[Couchlockd]

Shit doesn't make any sense anymore.

Dudes on 200-400mg minimum of test every week prescribed by these trt doctors .. like wtf is that ? And then sometimes say no to HCG or AI's ? How does any of this make sense.

Starting to think it's all about the money

Sent from my JSN-AL00 using Tapatalk

Well don't think. Know, it's ALL about the money. Even a doctor that treated you since age 3.when it comes down to it, your a name on a chart with eye color.

No fucks given by the doctors, if they cared, they'd now and again administer life saving or vision saving drugs with out worry if insurance picked up cost.

They'd do it, cuzz they know you for 32 years and absorb the cost of a 1 time experimental shot.

Rant over.

[jwdekzw]

On a side note, HRT clinics usually suck. They have outdated protocols, they often prescribe too much stuff, they rip people off with their prices and require them to go in for a visit for the injections so they can charge for that too etc.

I've been going through this for 4 years now with 2 specialist and now the clinic and to tell you the truth none of them know what they are doing when it comes to HRT. Some of the clinics charge a flat rate of about $200/month and some advertise that you pay no monthly fee but just for the meds and then they hit you with consultation fees and labs this current round of meds cost me $1600 for 20 weeks, and I still don't feel right. I've decided no more clinics or doctors and will you guys help will manage my own treatment.

[Chrisp83TRT]

Well don't think. Know, it's ALL about the money. Even a doctor that treated you since age 3.when it comes down to it, your a name on a chart with eye color.

No fucks given by the doctors, if they cared, they'd now and again administer life saving or vision saving drugs with out worry if insurance picked up cost.

They'd do it, cuzz they know you for 32 years and absorb the cost of a 1 time experimental shot.

Rant over.

Good rant haha


It's why I have my own protocol and don't follow the doctors orders anymore.
I still have my trt doctor to write me up a script for blood work when I need it.

Other then that , when they say means shit to me.
I feel I know just as much if not more than they do.
Shit if I have questions I come here rather then the doctor.

Sadly anytime I want to know something , I have to pay just to speak with them. Fuck that !

Hope you're well bro. Haven't heard from you. In a couple . I you're a busy guy

Sent from my JSN-AL00 using Tapatalk

[Couchlockd]

Good rant haha


It's why I have my own protocol and don't follow the doctors orders anymore.
I still have my trt doctor to write me up a script for blood work when I need it.

Other then that , when they say means shit to me.
I feel I know just as much if not more than they do.
Shit if I have questions I come here rather then the doctor.

Sadly anytime I want to know something , I have to pay just to speak with them. Fuck that !

Hope you're well bro. Haven't heard from you. In a couple . I you're a busy guy

Sent from my JSN-AL00 using Tapatalk

I sent you a wickr today.

[jwdekzw]

Were your levels low before TRT or on TRT too? Do you have the labs results from then? If your starting dose was 300mg then your doctor doesn't know what he's doing. I don't know how opiates affect a TRT protocol but I doubt it has a big effect since you inject test and don't rely on your natural production (but I could be wrong). Not sure what the best dosage for AI is without labs but 3mg is definitely too much. You don't cycle off TRT. If your levels are very low then you have to be on it for life. This protocol won't restart/increase your natural T production, on the contrary it suppresses to zero, so if you try to come off you'll have even lower levels until (if) you return to your previous low levels. If restart/increase was the goal then this was the wrong way to go about, the right choice woulda been clomid or some other SERM. Since you're 60 and you have your opiate problem I doubt that would work though.

So you have 2 choices, you either stop and live with low levels or you stay on TRT for life, it's up to you. If you decide to stay on TRT, I would dial in your protocol so you keep your numbers in range, and then maybe later on you can do some "cycles" where you temporarily increase your dose or add more steroids, this is what we call a blast.

Originally I was being treated for depression, insomnia, joint pain (I have chronic gout) and low energy I was placed on a bunch of different drugs and basically walked around in a drug induced stupor, eventually the doctor realized my symptoms were all pointing to low Testosterone I think the first lab test he did my Total T was less than 200 and my Free T was .0 something basically 0. At this time I was placed on Androgel without any ancillary drugs my levels after this peaked at about T Total =550 and Free around 40 my free has always been below the lower end of the range. Because of insurance changes the androgel was no longer covered and I was switched to 100mg of test C per wk. At this point in time sex wasn't and option since I was unable to obtain an erection so I visited a specialist and he took me off of testosterone and treated me with 100mg of clomiphene per day. I stayed this course for about 2 years and my T levels stayed pretty much the same as they were while on Testosterone. Eventually I started having vision and memory problems not to mention that the clomiphene can jack up estaradiol. This is when I turned to a clinic in Florida (I live in Maryland) flew down and did my intake consultation my total T was 485 and Free was 7. They sent me 20 weeks of Anastrazole, Exemestane, deca and Testosterone for $1600 and require periodic labs at the price of $250 each time, so the time for labs is coming up and I was thinking to cut ties with them manage my own treatment and visit an independent lab.

[Youthful55guy]

I am not really a bodybuilder but wouldn't mind building muscle, loosing weight and increasing my energy levels not to mention my libido, I am a 60 year old male 200 lbs 5'11' and have hypertension and hypogonadism (low T). Unfortunately the doctors I have visited in the past 4 years have treated me with just Testosterone gel and later Test C injections with no ancillary med.s ie ( AI) and later I visited and endocrinologist since the TRT wasn't effective, this doctor believed my pain medication was the culprit and put me on a regimen of just clomid for about 2 years until I had some bad sides. About 2 months ago I decided to try an HRT clinic and was placed on 300mg Test C /wk, 3 mg Anastrozole /wk , 20 mg exemestene/wk and 100mg deca /wk for joint pain for a cycle to last 20 weeks, for the last 2 weeks I have supplemented the test dose with and additional 200mg/wk because to be honest I am not feeling to much of a benefit and I also added 100mg of Tren E /wk, I understand the dangers of hyperprolactinemia using a double 19-nor steroid and have cabergoline on hand, but am thinking I am on such low doses it isn't a problem plus I take plenty vitamin B6. My question is should I be using HCG also on cycle mainly to dissuade testicular atrophy or because of my age it isn't necessary,? also if there are any issues anyone sees with my current regimen please advise, I haven't had blood work since I started in November and was also wondering how often should I be checking.

Any help will be appreciated, most of you guys know more about this stuff then do the doctors!

300mg per week? That's a LOT of T. Do you have labs?

I recommend reading the first sticky on Best practices in TRT. Probably not the advice you want to hear, but need to hear. That dose of T is simply not sustainable without major side-effects.

[jwdekzw]

Found this on the internet:
Opioid-induced endocrinopathy, specifically hypogonadism, is a physiological side effect in which opiate use suppresses the sex hormones, among other substances.1,2 Two mechanisms for this have been theorized. One is that opioid use alters gonadotropin pulse patterns, affecting plasma testosterone and other adrenal and gonadal hormones. Another is that the anterior pituitary, which controls testosterone, along with growth hormone (GH), prolactin, thyroid stimulating hormone (TSH), adrenalcorticotrophic hormone, luteinizing hormone (LH), and follicle stimulating hormone, has an altered response to gonadrotropin-releasing hormone.1 Put simply, opioids generally and acutely increase GH, TSH, and prolactin, and decrease LH, testosterone, estradiol, and oxytocin.1 Chronic opioid use, however, may not lead to this pattern.3-5

[Beetlegeuse]

jwdekzw I'm a couple of years older than you and I did HRT for about three years (secondary hypogonadism) before I started self-prescribed hCG . From my standpoint I can't think of a reason you wouldn't want to add it to your regimen. The only material drawbacks are #1) it isn't free (but it's damn cheap, I probably spend <$10 a month on hCG*) and #2) you have to stick yourself. I have zero adverse side-effects.

Like most everything everything hormonal, the effects of hCG typically are 'cascading,' not just a single thing. In my case, most of the positive effects of TRT -- libido, quality of orgasms, etc -- were amplified by adding hCG. I'd hate to have to do without it.


*That doesn't include the syringes, glassware or the bacteriostatic water. There's no getting around the hardware but I bought a 75-year supply of benzyl alcohol for $6 and make my own 1% bac water.