Libido gone

[MICKY H]

Hi, I have quit TRT to help my wife and I have a baby.

However my sex drive has gone.

Any solutions here guys

[i_SLAM_cougars]

[Windex]

Hi, I have quit TRT to help my wife and I have a baby.

However my sex drive has gone.

Any solutions here guys

You do NOT need to quit TRT for fertility that is a misconception. Stopping HRT after the amount of time you've been on is going to create more problems than it will solve.

[Youthful55guy]

Yes and no to Windex's response. It's not a straight-forward answer.

If you were fertile prior to TRT, that is you were borderline T levels and were secondary hypogonadal (I.e., the problem was with LH/FSH secretion and not testicular response), then there is a good possibility that you can regain fertility. If your T problem was originally testicular function, then the outcome is less certain.

Yes, per Windex's post, that guys that are secondary hypogonadal can still be fertile while on TRT, but it is more difficult than coming off TRT all together. Following a well-designed HCG /Clomid protocol will help. You can also increase the chances of success by following a protocol with HMG if you can afford the drug. I've recently posted a common protocol in another string.

Keep in mind that whatever you do, it's going to take several months before sperm cells appear in your ejaculate. It takes about 3 months for the testicles to produce and mature sperm cells AFTER LH and FSH production returns to normal. I remember reading that the average time to pregnancy in a study of secondary hypogonadal men following a well-structured HCG/Clomid/HMG protocol was 9 months.

[MICKY H]

Hi, will any of these have an effect on sexual performance, Anastrozole,Clomifene Citrate and Tamoxifen . Since stopping TRT I can hardly raise an erection even with Cialias

[Youthful55guy]

Hi, will any of these have an effect on sexual performance, Anastrozole,Clomifene Citrate and Tamoxifen. Since stopping TRT I can hardly raise an erection even with Cialias

Why are you taking estrogen inhibitors and blockers? Yes, they will crush your E levels and men need normal E levels for erections. Unless you have labs to show you have high E, I would not be taking any anastrozole or Tamoxifen .

[GearHeaded]

Estrogen, NOT testosterone , is what controls the male libido and sex drive. your having issues sexually yet taking an estrogen blocker.. thats completely counter productive

also agree that getting off TRT if it was medically prescribed and really needed is not a good idea. but its your choice either way

[MICKY H]

If you look further up the posts there is a YouTube video. Was just following that. Will stop both Anastrozole and Tamoxifen . Thank you

[GearHeaded]

If you look further up the posts there is a YouTube video. Was just following that. Will stop both Anastrozole and Tamoxifen. Thank you

the reason why some will advocate taking an estrogen blocker is because high estrogen is suppressive to your HPTA, while low estrogen will signal your body to produce more natty test because it needs the estrogen. . but when you think about it , its counter productive because estrogen is part of the whole reason why your body will produce test in the first place. your suppressing the very thing that is needed.
its like building a big bank account for the purpose of having $ to spend.. if your bank won't let you withdraw funds or write a check your big bank account doesn't mean shit. trying to increase your test levels and suppressing estrogen at the same time means your increased test levels can't do anything.

estrogen controls the male sex drive, you need it to function. suppressing that in an attempt to increase your natty test levels to supposedly increase your sexual performance does not make sense. your suppressing the very thing that you want Test to convert to in the first place to help your sexual performance

[GearHeaded]

edit - the clomid your taking is already tricking your brain to think it has no estrogen by blunting estrogen receptors there.. theres no need to suppress the actual estrogen conversion itself, because again at the end of the day thats what your ultimately after in regards to helping your sexual performance

[Ashop]

Hi, I have quit TRT to help my wife and I have a baby.

However my sex drive has gone.

Any solutions here guys

CLOMID perhaps?

[CA_DXB_85]

Hi, will any of these have an effect on sexual performance, Anastrozole,Clomifene Citrate and Tamoxifen. Since stopping TRT I can hardly raise an erection even with Cialias

No wonder your lipido is gone and having ED issues... Drop that Anastrozole all together as it is crashing your estrogen so bad... Please refer to what GH has explained earlier about how clomid/Nolvadex are tricking your brain into thinking you are low on estrogen by blunting the receptors; taking adex will do nothing other than crashing your estrogen and your lipido with it!

Good luck

[MICKY H]

Thank you for you advice.
Should my e levels return to normal soon or do I need to take something.
I have all the symptoms, even tiredness.
Again cheers for the advice

[MICKY H]

Lastly, Ive only been taking the Anastrozole and Tamoxifen for 2 weeks

[Youthful55guy]

If you look further up the posts there is a YouTube video. Was just following that. Will stop both Anastrozole and Tamoxifen. Thank you

I did not view the video, but just looking at the cover it's obviously oriented toward bodybuilders. You need to understand that bodybuilders use testosterone very differently than we do with medically necessary TRT. Muddying the waters even more is that they often call their "Blast and Cruise" protocols "TRT", which it is not. It's one of my hot buttons because it confuses the newbies to TRT. They read posts of the outrageous doses of T these bodybuilders are using and then question the advice they get from us for medically necessary TRT. The main difference is that our goal is to bring T levels back to within a healthy normal range and to strive for steady levels and a sustainable protocol.

Bodybuilders, on the other hand, have the goal of pushing T levels to superphysiological levels for several weeks to months and then dial it back for several weeks to months to help manage the side-effects of those high levels (such as gynecomastia ). They call this "cycling". Often they add ("stack") one or more synthetic anabolic hormones to augment the testosterone. What you need to understand is that E is made from T and follows a mass action conversion. That is, the more T you have, the more E you will make. So when you follow one of these blast and cruise protocols, your E levels will spike to extremely high levels unless you use compounds that either block the conversion enzyme (such as anastrozole), or block the receptors for E so that the high E levels do not affect the body as much (such as with Tamoxifen ). Clomid is a special kind of E blocker that selectively works in the brain.

It takes a while for the T to clear your system after a "Blast" cycle, so when they go onto a "Cruise" cycle of normal T (or none at all), they need to maintain E control until the T comes back to normal. If they are quitting all together, they need to jumpstart their normal production of gonadotropins (LH and FSH) because E is highly suppressive of gonadotropin production. This is why they layer in Clomid, which selectively blocks E at the hypothalamic level of the brain. Then hypothalamus produces a hormone called GnRH which is a short-lived intermediary hormone that stimulates the pituitary to produce both LH and FSH.

OK, bringing this discussion fell circle, if you are using T in a normal medically necessary TRT manner, your goal is to bring T levels up to the normal healthy levels of when you were younger. So, if you do it correctly, your T levels will always remain within "normal" ranges and so the conversion of T to E with also remain "normal". Therefore, as long as you do not abuse TRT, E levels should not require any type of control. Indeed, men need normal E levels for normal libido and for erections. It's one of those ironies of biology that men need a female hormone to get hard, but it's how we evolved. So, if you are using TRT in a medically necessary protocol, and you start to layer in E inhibitors, you will drive your normal E levels into the ground and end up with a bad case of ED. I've read countless accounts of this in forums just like this. Your not alone.

Best advice is to toss the anastrozole and Tamoxifen into the trash. However, there may be a place for Clomid in a fertility enhancement protocol. We can talk more about that if needed.

[Youthful55guy]

Lastly, Ive only been taking the Anastrozole and Tamoxifen for 2 weeks

Anastrozole will crash your E levels in a matter of days. The good news is that it has a relatively short half-life of about 2 days. That means that most of it will be gone within a week of discontinuing it.

[MICKY H]

Anastrozole will crash your E levels in a matter of days. The good news is that it has a relatively short half-life of about 2 days. That means that most of it will be gone within a week of discontinuing it.

Thank you for your kind advice and knowledge

[jwh7699]

So the recommendation now is No AI if you are TRT?

Does this apply to Cyp injections also?

People recommended in the past keeping E2 levels between 30 and 60. What is the new Normal range?

Is there No longer a E2 range?

[956Vette]

Consider trying bremelanotide injection with the wife on vacation. Good luck having a baby!

[Youthful55guy]

So the recommendation now is No AI if you are TRT?

Does this apply to Cyp injections also?

People recommended in the past keeping E2 levels between 30 and 60. What is the new Normal range?

Is there No longer a E2 range?

There's no need for an AI if you have a TRT protocol that keeps T levels within normal ranges all the time. The problem is that many TRT protocols are not implemented properly and/or use old school infrequent (e.g. weekly) injection protocols. I suggest you read the sticky thread on the first page on "Best Practices in TRT".

Regarding ranges, you need to use the correct test designed for men and follow the normal ranges for the particular lab that is running the test. The normal ranges differ from lab to lab. For me, I use the LabCorp LC/MS/MS method and normal ranges are currently 8-35 pg/mL. If I use a rational TRT protocol and no E control, I'm almost always within normal ranges. I personally use 50 pg/mL as a cut off point for starting to worry, but I rarely go above 40. I'm currently using no form of E control. I've even stopped DIM because it was driving my E levels too low.

By Cyp, I assume you mean Testosterone cypionate (usually shortened to T-cyp). Yes, that is the most common form of T in the USA. In Europe, T-eth is more common but the kinetics of metabolism are very similar to T-cyp.

[Youthful55guy]

Consider trying bremelanotide injection with the wife on vacation. Good luck having a baby!

PT-141 (Bremelanotide) is an interesting drug and highly effective but not without side-effects. It works well layered on top of an ED med, but extreme caution is necessary in the dosing. It works a too well for me and sticks around in my system for about 48 hours. Unrelenting nocturnal erections are the worst side-effect for me. Others report nausea, but I don't find that to be a problem. However, my use is limited to infrequent recreational use.

[jwh7699]

There's no need for an AI if you have a TRT protocol that keeps T levels within normal ranges all the time. The problem is that many TRT protocols are not implemented properly and/or use old school infrequent (e.g. weekly) injection protocols. I suggest you read the sticky thread on the first page on "Best Practices in TRT".

Regarding ranges, you need to use the correct test designed for men and follow the normal ranges for the particular lab that is running the test. The normal ranges differ from lab to lab. For me, I use the LabCorp LC/MS/MS method and normal ranges are currently 8-35 pg/mL. If I use a rational TRT protocol and no E control, I'm almost always within normal ranges. I personally use 50 pg/mL as a cut off point for starting to worry, but I rarely go above 40. I'm currently using no form of E control. I've even stopped DIM because it was driving my E levels too low.

By Cyp, I assume you mean Testosterone cypionate (usually shortened to T-cyp). Yes, that is the most common form of T in the USA. In Europe, T-eth is more common but the kinetics of metabolism are very similar to T-cyp.

Thanks for the Suggestion, I'll take a look at the Sticky. Estradiol Sensitive Essay. Yeah, I have been on an AI for several years. I split my T dose into Mon. - Wed. - Fri. My libido comes and goes, so I'm willing to give no AI a try. Thanks!!

[MICKY H]

My latest blood works
Hello

An update on my blood results, 2 months off TRT and taking HCG and Clomid

FSH 26.43 MLU/ML
LH 23.54 MLU/ML
TEST (ECLIA) 3.41 RANGE 2.80 - 8.00
ESTRADIOL (ECLIA) 20.41 RANGE 25.80 60.70

Any helpful insight would be grateful, is HCG working

[Youthful55guy]

My latest blood works
Hello

An update on my blood results, 2 months off TRT and taking HCG and Clomid

FSH 26.43 MLU/ML
LH 23.54 MLU/ML
TEST (ECLIA) 3.41 RANGE 2.80 - 8.00
ESTRADIOL (ECLIA) 20.41 RANGE 25.80 60.70

Any helpful insight would be grateful, is HCG working

Agree with Cylon. It is important to know the "normal" ranges of LH and FSH for the laboratory that tested them and the time of day the blood was drawn. It's best to draw as soon as possible when the lab opens and to be consistent in timing from lab to lab. I've only had LH/FSH labs once and the normal range for my laboratory was 1.5-9.3 for LH (not sure of the units) and 1.5-18.1 for FSH. So if that is any indication of your laboratory, I'd say you are well on the way to your goal of fertility.

Also keep in mind that regaining fertility is a long process. It takes about 3 months for sperm cells to mature and make their way into the ejaculate. In a couple studies I've read on fertility treatments, the mean time to conception is between 9-12 months after initiation of treatments.

[MICKY H]

Thanks for your replies

The ranges FSH 26.43 MLU/ML Male : 1.50 ~ 12.40
LH 23.44 MLU/ML Male : 1.70 ~ 8.60

I totally out of the ranges.

Any ideas guys