TRT with normal Test

[Danny Dreamer]

Hello
I'm 30 years
Can I use TRT with normal level of T for building muscles
Or better use cycles

[i_SLAM_cougars]

Hello
I'm 30 years
Can I use TRT with normal level of T for building muscles
Or better use cycles

You can do anything you want. Obviously TRT is going to give you better results than not being on TRT. Obviously better cycles are going to yield you better results than TRT. The choice is ultimately up to you

[Danny Dreamer]

You can do anything you want. Obviously TRT is going to give you better results than not being on TRT. Obviously better cycles are going to yield you better results than TRT. The choice is ultimately up to you

What the best TRT dose for building muscles. and avoid E side effects

[i_SLAM_cougars]

What the best TRT dose for building muscles. and avoid E side effects

That’s kind of person dependent. I can run 1000+ Mg of test a week and not get any estrogenic side effects. Some people might get them at 400mg/wk

I’d say between 100-200mg a week is your true TRT dosage. Shouldn’t have any issues anywhere in there

[balin]

With a normal level of T when you add in a TRT dose your body will just shut your own levels down and yo will get little benefit and may loose your gains while trying to regain your own natural T levels.

[xxblazenlowxx]

With a normal level of T when you add in a TRT dose your body will just shut your own levels down and yo will get little benefit and may loose your gains while trying to regain your own natural T levels.

Yes

What are your levels now?

[kelkel]

TRT and cycling are two completely different animals. TRT is a medical necessity whereas cycling is a choice.

[kelkel]

With a normal level of T when you add in a TRT dose your body will just shut your own levels down and yo will get little benefit and may loose your gains while trying to regain your own natural T levels.

Exactly. A complete waste of time.

[Beetlegeuse]

I'm mid-60s and been on TRT for about eight years for "hypogonadism." The shit my doctor was giving me didn't do a lot for me. Barely got my Total T into the "low normal" range. Probably reduced my susceptibility to diabetes, osteoporosis, etc, but as for improving my feeling of general wellbeing, it didn't do shit.

About a year later I joined this forum specifically out of fear of testicular atrophy. I wanted to find out how to get UGL hCG . The problem was I had to have 100 posts before I could ask for a source. And I didn't post whore, or make a nuisance of myself (not like I do now). I only participated in posts where I thought I could contribute. Which, since I was a noob, were few and far between so it took me a long time to get to 100.

The funny thing then was before I'd got to my hundredth post I'd learned to understand the "code" they speak here to talk about sources without naming them outright. And from that I found a source for my hCG without having to ask.

And the hCG did its shit. I was taking such small doses of Test that the testicular atrophy was advancing imperceptably slowly. It wasn't until I started on the hCG that I realized how shriveled "the boys" were. Job well-done, much thanks to the guys here, who taught me the correct way to administer it.

But I kept hanging around because I found I was learning stuff, stuff about steroids and the bodybuilding and weight lifting communities. One of the things I learned was that these guys aren't a bunch of maniacs stuffing illegal chemicals in their bodies that are going to make them burn out before they're 45. Some of these guys (one or two already participating in this thread) are extraordinarily well-read on the subject of steroids -- including the physiology of the notorious "hyopthalamus-pituitary-gonadal axis" -- and the other substances and procedures that go along with "cycling" so it can be done in a big way without ruining your health.

When they're on a cycle, I know some of these guys are walking around with Testosterone levels that would make a general practitioner MD stroke out. Because the medical community takes that conservative of an approach to steroids. But that's not the only approach, nor, as I have leaned here, is it the only safe approach.

Here's something else you need to know, something I was aware of because of a long involvement in bicycle roadracing (and the details of the doping that came out from that whole Lance Pharmstrong thing). Synthetic testosterone , specifically Test E and Test C, isn't a foreign substance. It's chemically and molecularly identical to the stuff your own balls produce. It's so close to natural that the only way to tell that it isn't natural is by comparing the ratios of the different carbon isotopes. And you can only do that with a gas chromatograph or an atomic mass spectrometer. And that's CSI shit.

That's not necessarily the case when you get over into some of the more exotic formulations, like Winnie or Deca , but for Test C and Test E, the risk (of 'sensible' doses) is very low because they're so nearly identical to what your body produces naturally.

So about two years ago I decided I was going to try a little UGL gear. And I asked one of the other members I had developed a PM relationship with to recommend me a source. So now I'm pinning tiny doses of Test C. Ridiculously small. About 3mg a week, Sub-Q, in divided doses, same days as I take hCG.

Right now I know there's guys laughing at the thought of someone taking such a tiny does, but here's the thing. I'm still taking the topical Test my PCP prescribes, the stuff that (by itself) didn't get my Total Test past 250. But that tiny bit of Sub-Q Test C (combined with hCG, which I'm convinced boosts my Total T) puts me up to 800+. I don't just have morning wood, I have a boner half the night. If I roll over in my sleep I'm like as not to wake myself up when I stab the mattress with my Johnson.

And here's the best part. In the past four years I've been through a series of shoulder surgeries, and all the time spent recovering from them held me back from doing resistance training. After the final surgery I got serious about the therapy exercises (to try to ward off still another re-injury) which led to me regularly doing general upper body resistance training. If I work muscles to exhaustion, because of my 'advanced' years I need a two day rest, so I can only work out every third day. Still, right now my biceps are the biggest they've ever been in my life. My pecs look like they did when I was 30 and I'm finally looking like I've got delts again. And I'm losing weight without trying. And I'm like 400 in dog years.

And I owe all this to what are really very small doses of Test and a 'normal' regimen of hCG. And I'm not even on an AI, so I know I could yet run my day-to-day Test a bit higher than it is now with no harmful side effects.

And here's the thing. I'm not on a 'cycle,' this is every day stuff. And I could live like this the rest of my life. And I intend to. Viagra? We don' need no stinkin' Viagra!

Yeah, that was TL/DR, but all that to say this: If I had known when I was 40 what I know now, that 'roids aren't the certain death that the press and mainstream medicine like to pretend they are, I'd have begun my own self-directed TRT program then with the intention of staying on it the rest of my life. Regardless whether it was "medically necessary." Maybe even when I was 30. Because I'm that much better off for it.

But without the information I've picked up from this forum, I could never have said that because I wouldn't know what I've learned from these guys.

But for god's sake don't tell 'em I said that, this bunch is too damn swell-headed as it is!

[C27H40O3]

I'm mid-60s and been on TRT for about eight years for "hypogonadism." The shit my doctor was giving me didn't do a lot for me. Barely got my Total T into the "low normal" range. Probably reduced my susceptibility to diabetes, osteoporosis, etc, but as for improving my feeling of general wellbeing, it didn't do shit.
...Snip...

Great post. Thats what mostly use hCG and Test C.

I might try the subQ route for a bit. What guage insulin needle you use? im guessing you use an insulin needle. if so, does it draw ok? I forgot to change to an 18 guage one day, and i couldnt get it into a 25 guage syringe. i thought it gelled up or something. then i figured it out.

[kelkel]

And I didn't post whore, or make a nuisance of myself (not like I do now).

Second opinion?



But seriously, that's a great post Beetle! We are lucky to have you here!

[Super User 4]

I'm mid-60s and been on TRT for about eight years for "hypogonadism." The shit my doctor was giving me didn't do a lot for me. Barely got my Total T into the "low normal" range. Probably reduced my susceptibility to diabetes, osteoporosis, etc, but as for improving my feeling of general wellbeing, it didn't do shit.

About a year later I joined this forum specifically out of fear of testicular atrophy. I wanted to find out how to get UGL hCG . The problem was I had to have 100 posts before I could ask for a source. And I didn't post whore, or make a nuisance of myself (not like I do now). I only participated in posts where I thought I could contribute. Which, since I was a noob, were few and far between so it took me a long time to get to 100.

The funny thing then was before I'd got to my hundredth post I'd learned to understand the "code" they speak here to talk about sources without naming them outright. And from that I found a source for my hCG without having to ask.

And the hCG did its shit. I was taking such small doses of Test that the testicular atrophy was advancing imperceptably slowly. It wasn't until I started on the hCG that I realized how shriveled "the boys" were. Job well-done, much thanks to the guys here, who taught me the correct way to administer it.

But I kept hanging around because I found I was learning stuff, stuff about steroids and the bodybuilding and weight lifting communities. One of the things I learned was that these guys aren't a bunch of maniacs stuffing illegal chemicals in their bodies that are going to make them burn out before they're 45. Some of these guys (one or two already participating in this thread) are extraordinarily well-read on the subject of steroids -- including the physiology of the notorious "hyopthalamus-pituitary-gonadal axis" -- and the other substances and procedures that go along with "cycling" so it can be done in a big way without ruining your health.

When they're on a cycle, I know some of these guys are walking around with Testosterone levels that would make a general practitioner MD stroke out. Because the medical community takes that conservative of an approach to steroids. But that's not the only approach, nor, as I have leaned here, is it the only safe approach.

Here's something else you need to know, something I was aware of because of a long involvement in bicycle roadracing (and the details of the doping that came out from that whole Lance Pharmstrong thing). Synthetic testosterone , specifically Test E and Test C, isn't a foreign substance. It's chemically and molecularly identical to the stuff your own balls produce. It's so close to natural that the only way to tell that it isn't natural is by comparing the ratios of the different carbon isotopes. And you can only do that with a gas chromatograph or an atomic mass spectrometer. And that's CSI shit.

That's not necessarily the case when you get over into some of the more exotic formulations, like Winnie or Deca , but for Test C and Test E, the risk (of 'sensible' doses) is very low because they're so nearly identical to what your body produces naturally.

So about two years ago I decided I was going to try a little UGL gear. And I asked one of the other members I had developed a PM relationship with to recommend me a source. So now I'm pinning tiny doses of Test C. Ridiculously small. About 3mg a week, Sub-Q, in divided doses, same days as I take hCG.

Right now I know there's guys laughing at the thought of someone taking such a tiny does, but here's the thing. I'm still taking the topical Test my PCP prescribes, the stuff that (by itself) didn't get my Total Test past 250. But that tiny bit of Sub-Q Test C (combined with hCG, which I'm convinced boosts my Total T) puts me up to 800+. I don't just have morning wood, I have a boner half the night. If I roll over in my sleep I'm like as not to wake myself up when I stab the mattress with my Johnson.

And here's the best part. In the past four years I've been through a series of shoulder surgeries, and all the time spent recovering from them held me back from doing resistance training. After the final surgery I got serious about the therapy exercises (to try to ward off still another re-injury) which led to me regularly doing general upper body resistance training. If I work muscles to exhaustion, because of my 'advanced' years I need a two day rest, so I can only work out every third day. Still, right now my biceps are the biggest they've ever been in my life. My pecs look like they did when I was 30 and I'm finally looking like I've got delts again. And I'm losing weight without trying. And I'm like 400 in dog years.

And I owe all this to what are really very small doses of Test and a 'normal' regimen of hCG. And I'm not even on an AI, so I know I could yet run my day-to-day Test a bit higher than it is now with no harmful side effects.

And here's the thing. I'm not on a 'cycle,' this is every day stuff. And I could live like this the rest of my life. And I intend to. Viagra? We don' need no stinkin' Viagra!

Yeah, that was TL/DR, but all that to say this: If I had known when I was 40 what I know now, that 'roids aren't the certain death that the press and mainstream medicine like to pretend they are, I'd have begun my own self-directed TRT program then with the intention of staying on it the rest of my life. Regardless whether it was "medically necessary." Maybe even when I was 30. Because I'm that much better off for it.

But without the information I've picked up from this forum, I could never have said that because I wouldn't know what I've learned from these guys.

But for god's sake don't tell 'em I said that, this bunch is too damn swell-headed as it is!

Pretty good information

[GargaML]

Ive read this thread 10 times. I compete in powerlifting. I am a normal guy, I have a good career, family, and already have two kids. For years I talked down about people that used PEDs. But things have changed since I turned 40. I’ve been reading a lot and it seems a lot of very successful people use this method in a moderated supervised way to live better lives. I want the same thing, to live longer and have a better quality of life as well as gains in strength. I went to one of these online places because it kept popping up in front of me. I took some blood test which was me dropping blood on a Dot on a business card and mailing it in. This came back with a total test of 404, with 1.7% free. I naturally did not trust this so I went to my doctor and took two subsequent tests which read 630, and 717 total testosterone . 1.7% consistently free. So I know my total is probably higher than the first test indicated. Nonetheless it has helped me obtain test e. I have enough to take 50 units per week for 12 weeks at which time I will get another 6 mL or more depending how I test. I have a bunch of questions. You have already helped me answer a lot. But I am getting a conflicting message. One person says it will be a waste of time with 100 mg per week, and another person says it has changed their lives and they wish they started sooner. Knowing that I am not hypogonadal, will I see any results? Having done this, can you guys see that I am screwing myself up ultimately? To be frank, Id really like to know if this is going to get me strength gains, if it’s enough. And, can I ever stop. I don’t think I want to do this forever. Sorry if I’m not using the right etiquette here but thank you for any help. There is a ton of information for hypogonadal men, but nothing for the eugonadal men. Just curious.

[GargaML]

I forgot to mention im also interested in the reduction in fasting glucose as i am consistently a few points above 100 sonce age 25. Id like to avoid the betes.

[Ephemeral]

I forgot to mention im also interested in the reduction in fasting glucose as i am consistently a few points above 100 sonce age 25. Id like to avoid the betes.

U can use low dose metformin, it's cheap and safe, ask your doc about it. Regarding TRT, this was already answered, if u have normal levels, it won't do much for u. Maybe a small benefit, but not worth the trouble.

[GargaML]

U can use low dose metformin, it's cheap and safe, ask your doc about it. Regarding TRT, this was already answered, if u have normal levels, it won't do much for u. Maybe a small benefit, but not worth the trouble.

Cool thanks. I’m wondering what “not much” means. Are we talking 100 pounds more on a 550 deadlift or are we talking 25?

[The Deadlifting Dog]

Cool thanks. I’m wondering what “not much” means. Are we talking 100 pounds more on a 550 deadlift or are we talking 25?

100lbs on a 550lb deadlift is much much more than not much.
If you have been training for 5+ years and your deadlift is 550lbs then 25lbs is the limit of not much IMO.

I pull just over 600. I would kill for a 25lb PR.

Now if you been training for 2 years or less and are pulling 550lbs....
Then it is a different story. You could easily gain 100+lbs on your deadlift but...
the gains are more newbie gains than gains from going on TRT.

[GargaML]

100lbs on a 550lb deadlift is much much more than not much.
If you have been training for 5+ years and your deadlift is 550lbs then 25lbs is the limit of not much.

I pull just over 600. I would kill for a 25lb PR.

Cool. That’s what I thought. I like your handle by the way. I have been training about six years and I just hit 535 at 183 pounds body weight. I’m looking to go up but it seems like this won’t do the trick. I wonder what will or how much I need of this.

[GearHeaded]

Ive read this thread 10 times. I compete in powerlifting. I am a normal guy, I have a good career, family, and already have two kids. For years I talked down about people that used PEDs. But things have changed since I turned 40. I’ve been reading a lot and it seems a lot of very successful people use this method in a moderated supervised way to live better lives. I want the same thing, to live longer and have a better quality of life as well as gains in strength. I went to one of these online places because it kept popping up in front of me. I took some blood test which was me dropping blood on a Dot on a business card and mailing it in. This came back with a total test of 404, with 1.7% free. I naturally did not trust this so I went to my doctor and took two subsequent tests which read 630, and 717 total testosterone. 1.7% consistently free. So I know my total is probably higher than the first test indicated. Nonetheless it has helped me obtain test e. I have enough to take 50 units per week for 12 weeks at which time I will get another 6 mL or more depending how I test. I have a bunch of questions. You have already helped me answer a lot. But I am getting a conflicting message. One person says it will be a waste of time with 100 mg per week, and another person says it has changed their lives and they wish they started sooner. Knowing that I am not hypogonadal, will I see any results? Having done this, can you guys see that I am screwing myself up ultimately? To be frank, Id really like to know if this is going to get me strength gains, if it’s enough. And, can I ever stop. I don’t think I want to do this forever. Sorry if I’m not using the right etiquette here but thank you for any help. There is a ton of information for hypogonadal men, but nothing for the eugonadal men. Just curious.

just jump over to the dark side and do a proper AAS cycle rather then thinking some basic TRT is really going to do something for you.. your 90 year old neighbor is on TRT . you want to pull 600+ pounds , you really think messing around with a little bit of "TRT" is the answer when you could simply just jump over to the dark side and start running real AAS cycles and not protocols meant for old men .

your not hypogonadal . a small dose TRT is just going to replace what you already produce thats why its caused Testosterone REPLACEMENT therapy .
you'll get much better results running a real AAS cycle.


as for the blood sugar . Metformin has many benefits for anti aging and will lower blood sugar levels. its super cheap and easy to get as well .. then of course diet and getting enough cardio (or walks etc.) in daily

[GargaML]

just jump over to the dark side and do a proper AAS cycle rather then thinking some basic TRT is really going to do something for you.. your 90 year old neighbor is on TRT . you want to pull 600+ pounds , you really think messing around with a little bit of "TRT" is the answer when you could simply just jump over to the dark side and start running real AAS cycles and not protocols meant for old men .

your not hypogonadal . a small dose TRT is just going to replace what you already produce thats why its caused Testosterone REPLACEMENT therapy .
you'll get much better results running a real AAS cycle.


as for the blood sugar . Metformin has many benefits for anti aging and will lower blood sugar levels. its super cheap and easy to get as well .. then of course diet and getting enough cardio (or walks etc.) in daily

This is the kind of candor I was looking for. Thank you. I don’t want to start something if it’s just going to replace what I have already when really there’s nothing wrong with what I have. I would jump over to the Darkside as you say but they don’t give me enough to do anything like that unless I stockpile for a few months and the stuff expires in six months. Also I have no idea what an AAS cycle is. Would you recommend I stock pile until I can do enough to be effective? Or am I barking up the wrong tree entirely? Please keep in mind I don’t care about aesthetics as much as strength. Again thank you for your reply.

On a sidenote I also have CJC 1295 ipamorelin. I don’t know what it is I just bought it and now I don’t know if I want to use it. Is that all bullshit? Marginal?

[GearHeaded]

This is the kind of candor I was looking for. Thank you. I don’t want to start something if it’s just going to replace what I have already when really there’s nothing wrong with what I have. I would jump over to the Darkside as you say but they don’t give me enough to do anything like that unless I stockpile for a few months and the stuff expires in six months. Also I have no idea what an AAS cycle is. Would you recommend I stock pile until I can do enough to be effective? Or am I barking up the wrong tree entirely? Please keep in mind I don’t care about aesthetics as much as strength. Again thank you for your reply.

On a sidenote I also have CJC 1295 ipamorelin. I don’t know what it is I just bought it and now I don’t know if I want to use it. Is that all bullshit? Marginal?

all depends on the route you want to go.. you can get things like Var, Deca , etc. scripted at some clinics. you can go the black market route (or you could live in a place like the UK where AAS is totally legal for use).
I can't give advice with anything there (other then saying I have had prescriptions for test prep, test c, deca, primo, hgh, etc. .. but shit is damn pricey when you go the scripted route)


a basic starter strength cycle (I'm not a fan of test only cycles)
12 weeks Test 600mg
weeks 1-4 Anadrol 50mg day
weeks 9-14 Var 40mg day (you'll drop the test back to TRT at week 12 but carry over the Var a bit longer)
Nolvadex on hand or 10mg per day maintenance dose

pretty simple protocol . nothing fancy here. you'll get plenty of strength gains and good recovery with those compounds.


as for the Ipamorelin .. its worth taking when you start hitting the training hard. it will help with recovery but won't necessarily act as a performance enhancer directly ,, but a side effect of better recovery equates to better performance and strength gains.
but keep in mind , with the increase of HGH levels you'll also get an increase of blood sugar and an increase in appetite/cravings (which could be a good thing if strength is the goal) and also a slight increase in water retention (which again may be a good thing and can increase strength and leverages)

[GargaML]

all depends on the route you want to go.. you can get things like Var, Deca , etc. scripted at some clinics. you can go the black market route (or you could live in a place like the UK where AAS is totally legal for use).
I can't give advice with anything there (other then saying I have had prescriptions for test prep, test c, deca, primo, hgh, etc. .. but shit is damn pricey when you go the scripted route)


a basic starter strength cycle (I'm not a fan of test only cycles)
12 weeks Test 600mg
weeks 1-4 Anadrol 50mg day
weeks 9-14 Var 40mg day (you'll drop the test back to TRT at week 12 but carry over the Var a bit longer)
Nolvadex on hand or 10mg per day maintenance dose

pretty simple protocol . nothing fancy here. you'll get plenty of strength gains and good recovery with those compounds.


as for the Ipamorelin .. its worth taking when you start hitting the training hard. it will help with recovery but won't necessarily act as a performance enhancer directly ,, but a side effect of better recovery equates to better performance and strength gains.
but keep in mind , with the increase of HGH levels you'll also get an increase of blood sugar and an increase in appetite/cravings (which could be a good thing if strength is the goal) and also a slight increase in water retention (which again may be a good thing and can increase strength and leverages)

Wow man that is a lot of stuff. I have to think on that for a minute. Plus I wouldn’t know where to get that shit one time much less reliably. And regarding the peptides, I don’t want to increase my blood sugar one bit. I will not take that risk. I really appreciate your input

[The Deadlifting Dog]

I personally would simply recommend taking 500mg of test with no AI. (I would also recommend hCG .)
I am not saying Gearhead is giving a bad or overly complex cyle.
His cycle will work great and you will make more gains on it. (You will be taking more drugs on it...)

I prefer people on their first run to just use testosterone .
Walk before you run for many reasons.
Say you get gyno or high blood pressure or a limp dick a month into GH's cycle...
You have no idea what is causing it.
You don't know how your body reacts to test or Anandrol so it could be either...
There is also an old saying that you should grow into your cycles.

Again, not saying Gearheaded's cycle is over the top.
Would just rather use it as your 2nd cycle.

FYI: I am a 49yr old powerlifter

[GargaML]

I personally would simply recommend taking 500mg of test with no AI. (I would also recommend hCG .)
I am not saying Gearhead is giving a bad or overly complex cyle.
His cycle will work great and you will make more gains on it. (You will be taking more drugs on it...)

I prefer people on their first run to just use testosterone .
Walk before you run for many reasons.
Say you get gyno or high blood pressure or a limp dick a month into GH's cycle...
You have no idea what is causing it.
You don't know how your body reacts to test or Anandrol so it could be either...
There is also an old saying that you should grow into your cycles.

Again, not saying Gearheaded's cycle is over the top.
Would just rather use it as your 2nd cycle.

FYI: I am a 49yr old powerlifter

Youre talking weekly? I might be able to pull that off but I would have to stockpile for a long time. No clue how to get a10ml vial!
I like this approach. Have to figure out how. How about clomid instead of hcg?

[The Deadlifting Dog]

Youre talking weekly? I might be able to pull that off but I would have to stockpile for a long time. No clue how to get a10ml vial!
I like this approach. Have to figure out how. How about clomid instead of hcg?

Yes... 500mg/week

Listen, if you need TRT then get prescribed TRT and use the medication for TRT.

If you decide to cycle then do what we all do and buy the highest quality gear you can find.

As far as finding gear...
Hang out here long enough and contribute anyway you can...
You'll figure it out soon enough.
This is not a source board.

Now. Stop posting in this thread.
What you've done is hijack someone else's thread.
Simply open your on thread.
If it is about TRT, then do it in the TRT section.
If it is about a cycle, then do it in the anabolic section.

Hang out in the lounge.
Check out the diet or workout section.

You'll make some friends.

[GargaML]

Yes... 500mg/week

Listen, if you need TRT then get prescribed TRT and use the medication for TRT.

If you decide to cycle then do what we all do and buy the highest quality gear you can find.

As far as finding gear...
Hang out here long enough and contribute anyway you can...
You'll figure it out soon enough.
This is not a source board.

Now. Stop posting in this thread.
What you've done is hijack someone else's thread.
Simply open your on thread.
If it is about TRT, then do it in the TRT section.
If it is about a cycle, then do it in the anabolic section.

Hang out in the lounge.
Check out the diet or workout section.

You'll make some friends.

Hijack? Sorry i asked about trt with normal test levels in a thread with the title trt with normal test levels.

Later