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Thread: TRT - Without HCG

  1. #1
    macmathews's Avatar
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    TRT - Without HCG

    I would love some feedback about those who are using TRT without HCG .
    I did TRT (testosterone injections) for about 12months in the past (2012) and am now not but can see the writing on the wall so to speak and am likely to return at a later date (I'm now 42)
    A few of my concern's were the shut down of my nads..

    I didn't like loss of semen ejaculation and even the loss of testicle size.

    I have a doc willing to prescribe Test but not HCG.

    During the time I was on TRT I did add clomid for several weeks.. I think I did this twice.. And without a doubt noticed testicular volume and semen increase.

    So how many on here are on Test injections without any HCG or Serm ?

    I Appreciate any feedback on this.
    Last edited by macmathews; 12-05-2017 at 01:43 PM.

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    David LoPan is offline Anabolic Member
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    It took me a long time to find a doctor that would write HCG for me. When I was put on TRT the HCG diet fad was going strong. Also, the doctor would not write me an AI as well. I have found that most doctors do not understand TRT or the role that HCG plays in mens health. Just wait a few years being on TRT and your boys will just hurt if your not taking HCG.

    You should be able to find both HCG and an AI on the internet or google around for PCP docs in your network that treat TRT.

    THe loss of semen ejaculation does nto have much to do with semen at all. If it did then men that have had a vasectomy would have tons of pagers on the subject. I have found that water consumption plays the biggest role in this. So make your drink of choice water and drink a lot of it. I try to drink a gallon a day. How often you ejaculate makes a difference as well. As we get older we need more time to recover in this aspect. So go longer between orgasims and no jerking off. Easier said that done.

    There are a couple of OTC things that you can get that will help. You can get pygeum, lecithin, and standardized maca all off Amazon and you will see a big difference. I have tried a few other things but those three and water have worked best for me.

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    I started the same way actually

    TRT for months and didn't want to start injecting HCg on the regular, than got tired of having small/shrunk testicles and started HCG. Shouldn't be a problem to find a good source if you can't go the prescription route anyway I prefer to have the boys look like they're working...

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    HCG provide several benefit as testicles role is not just secrete Testosterone and sperm production, but there's a lot of other important stuff which you should keep your tests health for.

    http://forums.steroid.com/hormone-re...ould-know.html

  5. #5
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    I would think there are ALOT more guys doing nothing except injecting.. VS Test injections & HCG
    Thoughts ?
    Last edited by macmathews; 12-15-2017 at 02:05 PM.

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    GearHeaded is offline Trying to make money by wrecking YOUR health
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    I don't do HCG for my TRT . I used to for a couple years, but stopped. now what I do is just blast HCG a couple times per year to keep the balls going a bit per se.

    one of the reasons I stopped taking it regularly is because its possible that it helps maintain your fertility, which is something I don't want (no more kids for me)

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    Quote Originally Posted by GearHeaded View Post
    I don't do HCG for my TRT . I used to for a couple years, but stopped. now what I do is just blast HCG a couple times per year to keep the balls going a bit per se.

    one of the reasons I stopped taking it regularly is because its possible that it helps maintain your fertility, which is something I don't want (no more kids for me)

    It absolutely does help maintain fertility. There are dose related studies on exactly that topic.
    -*- NO SOURCE CHECKS -*-

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    Youthful55guy is online now Knowledgeable Member
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    HCG is pretty easy to get through "alternative" markets, and it's not all that expensive. I personally would not consider TRT without HCG and would shop around for a doc willing to prescribe it if you don't want to go down the alternative market path. As pointed out by you and others here. LH has multiple affects in the body, not just T production. So losing the LH signal is (in my opinion) not healthy. One obvious effect, as you pointed out, it the effect on semen secretion. Bothe the prostate and especially the seminal vesicles are lined with LH receptors and these two glands produce about 80% of the ejaculate.

    As pointed out by Kel, yes HCG does have an effect on fertility. This is because it has both LH and FSH like activity (binds to both receptors). Therefore, it also stimulates the Sertoli cells to undergo meiosis/spermatogenesis. Also, the spermatogenesis machinery is responsible for about 70% of the testicular volume, so more than likely the increased testicular volume we all notice while on HCG with TRT is more than likely due to the FSH activity than it is the LH activity (not that it really matters).

    I too noticed that clomid can substitute for HCG in a TRT protocol, although I got considerable pushback from others here in the forum when I did a clomid experiment. It was very subjective (no labs), but I think the results are real. I won't go into the theories as why I think it works, but if it works for you, you might consider it as a stop-gap measure. I personally, prefer HCG. I am sensitive to some of the side-effects of clomid and found I could not go over 12.5 mg per day.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Youthful55guy View Post
    HCG is pretty easy to get through "alternative" markets, and it's not all that expensive. I personally would not consider TRT without HCG and would shop around for a doc willing to prescribe it if you don't want to go down the alternative market path. As pointed out by you and others here. LH has multiple affects in the body, not just T production. So losing the LH signal is (in my opinion) not healthy. One obvious effect, as you pointed out, it the effect on semen secretion. Bothe the prostate and especially the seminal vesicles are lined with LH receptors and these two glands produce about 80% of the ejaculate.

    As pointed out by Kel, yes HCG does have an effect on fertility. This is because it has both LH and FSH like activity (binds to both receptors). Therefore, it also stimulates the Sertoli cells to undergo meiosis/spermatogenesis. Also, the spermatogenesis machinery is responsible for about 70% of the testicular volume, so more than likely the increased testicular volume we all notice while on HCG with TRT is more than likely due to the FSH activity than it is the LH activity (not that it really matters).

    I too noticed that clomid can substitute for HCG in a TRT protocol, although I got considerable pushback from others here in the forum when I did a clomid experiment. It was very subjective (no labs), but I think the results are real. I won't go into the theories as why I think it works, but if it works for you, you might consider it as a stop-gap measure. I personally, prefer HCG. I am sensitive to some of the side-effects of clomid and found I could not go over 12.5 mg per day.

    I have seen sources in the US, but not so much luck in Canada..
    I went as far as buying from an on-line source and when I noticed it did nothing I did the pregnancy test and found it was bunk

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    Youthful55guy is online now Knowledgeable Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by macmathews View Post
    I have seen sources in the US, but not so much luck in Canada..
    I went as far as buying from an on-line source and when I noticed it did nothing I did the pregnancy test and found it was bunk
    You need to do your research on sources. The guys in the bodybuilding forums are a good source of information. My alternative source came from Europe. It's not legal to import and you risk seizure, but that's the risk you have to take. Fortunately, I finally found a doc willing to keep me supplied, so I don't need to import any more.

  11. #11
    Sh0tsf1red is offline Member
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    There are a few weight loss clinics that pretty much sell it, not sure the dosing for either

  12. #12
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    I am on TRT with no HCG prescribed

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    Quote Originally Posted by macmathews View Post
    I have seen sources in the US, but not so much luck in Canada..
    I went as far as buying from an on-line source and when I noticed it did nothing I did the pregnancy test and found it was bunk
    In my very limited experience, I would think the packaging would be a give-away. The stuff I buy online comes in very professional-looking packaging. All the printing, both on the box and the data sheet, is absolutely perfect, not a hint of smudging or indistinct edges, and they use well-known trademarks. And there's a blown glass ampoule of saline water included (a whopping 2ml), which hints at a level of manufacturing sophistication that I wouldn't expect the fakers to be capable of, especially in something so inexpensive to start with.

    Completely OT but that's also why I only ever buy Cuban cigars by the box (still sealed). I usually can determine authenticity inside of 10 seconds. An exceptionally good fake might take 30 seconds to spot, and none of the checks involve the cigars themselves. Counterfeiters just won't spend the kind of money on packaging that the legitimate manufacturers do. My hunch is it's the same with hCG .

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    Youthful55guy is online now Knowledgeable Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beetlegeuse View Post
    In my very limited experience, I would think the packaging would be a give-away. The stuff I buy online comes in very professional-looking packaging. All the printing, both on the box and the data sheet, is absolutely perfect, not a hint of smudging or indistinct edges, and they use well-known trademarks. And there's a blown glass ampoule of saline water included (a whopping 2ml), which hints at a level of manufacturing sophistication that I wouldn't expect the fakers to be capable of, especially in something so inexpensive to start with.

    Completely OT but that's also why I only ever buy Cuban cigars by the box (still sealed). I usually can determine authenticity inside of 10 seconds. An exceptionally good fake might take 30 seconds to spot, and none of the checks involve the cigars themselves. Counterfeiters just won't spend the kind of money on packaging that the legitimate manufacturers do. My hunch is it's the same with hCG.
    Very good advice. I follow the same QC process when evaluating the product.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GearHeaded View Post
    I don't do HCG for my TRT . I used to for a couple years, but stopped. now what I do is just blast HCG a couple times per year to keep the balls going a bit per se.

    one of the reasons I stopped taking it regularly is because its possible that it helps maintain your fertility, which is something I don't want (no more kids for me)

    Good info! Since, I do feel the same exact way on the 2nd part



    I order all of HCG from reliablerpharmacy . c o m < If this isn't allowed or what not, just delete it


    It's HG

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    BigPerm21 is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Youthful55guy View Post
    I too noticed that clomid can substitute for HCG in a TRT protocol, although I got considerable pushback from others here in the forum when I did a clomid experiment. It was very subjective (no labs), but I think the results are real. I won't go into the theories as why I think it works, but if it works for you, you might consider it as a stop-gap measure. I personally, prefer HCG. I am sensitive to some of the side-effects of clomid and found I could not go over 12.5 mg per day.
    I was wonder just that question. Why is HCG used and not Nolvadex or Clomid when it's so easy orally?

  17. #17
    Youthful55guy is online now Knowledgeable Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigPerm21 View Post
    I was wonder just that question. Why is HCG used and not Nolvadex or Clomid when it's so easy orally?
    They work by very different mechanisms.

    HCG is a protein hormone that binds to both LH and FSH receptors to mimic the missing gonadotropins LH and FSG.

    Nolvadex (tamoxifen citrate) is a Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulator (SERM) that binds to estrogen receptors but has little estrogenic activity. This prevents E2 from binding and exerting its affect. Tamoxifen has mostly peripheral activity but does bind to hypothalamic receptors too, so yes, it may have a benefit similar to Clomid in stimulating the release of GnRH and thus, LH and FSH.

    Clomid, is also a SERM but it is more selective to the hypothalamus.

    The reason SERMs have not become popular as a replacement for HCG in maintaining testicular size and function is that they also have some mild estrogenic side-effects. In my experiments with Clomid, I found that the side-effects were tolerable up to a dose of about 12.5 mg (1/4 tablet) daily. I also noticed (subjectively) that there was minimal loss of testicular size over the approximate 6 week test period. At doses higher than 12.5 mg daily, I noticed some Central Nervous System side-effects similar to High E/Low T symptoms (mood, libido, energy, etc.).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Youthful55guy View Post
    They work by very different mechanisms.

    HCG is a protein hormone that binds to both LH and FSH receptors to mimic the missing gonadotropins LH and FSG.

    Nolvadex (tamoxifen citrate) is a Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulator (SERM) that binds to estrogen receptors but has little estrogenic activity. This prevents E2 from binding and exerting its affect. Tamoxifen has mostly peripheral activity but does bind to hypothalamic receptors too, so yes, it may have a benefit similar to Clomid in stimulating the release of GnRH and thus, LH and FSH.

    Clomid, is also a SERM but it is more selective to the hypothalamus.

    The reason SERMs have not become popular as a replacement for HCG in maintaining testicular size and function is that they also have some mild estrogenic side-effects. In my experiments with Clomid, I found that the side-effects were tolerable up to a dose of about 12.5 mg (1/4 tablet) daily. I also noticed (subjectively) that there was minimal loss of testicular size over the approximate 6 week test period. At doses higher than 12.5 mg daily, I noticed some Central Nervous System side-effects similar to High E/Low T symptoms (mood, libido, energy, etc.).

    What did you noticed Libido wise ?
    I once tried clomid 25mg EOD for a period of 4 months or so.. It raised my Libido even slightly more than just Test injections.
    And even got my total T fairly high but since it raised my SHBG so much my free T was barely in Range.

  19. #19
    Youthful55guy is online now Knowledgeable Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by macmathews View Post
    What did you noticed Libido wise ?
    I once tried clomid 25mg EOD for a period of 4 months or so.. It raised my Libido even slightly more than just Test injections.
    And even got my total T fairly high but since it raised my SHBG so much my free T was barely in Range.
    Just the opposite with me. Libido and ED issues were part of the estrogenic effects that I referred to as negative side-effects of clomid for me. At 12.5 mg daily, it was tolerable, but definitely not enhanced like with TRT.

  20. #20
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    I have never taken HCG . I haven't noticed any size difference in my testicles either. Hard to know if my semen volume has changed as before TRT I didn't ejaculate much as I had no interest in doing so. I do now, of course.

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