Why the necessity for long (6 month+) runs of GH?

[bball_playa]

thank you RedBaron I really appreciate you sharing your knowledge.

[oswaldosalcedo]

for mass?
for fat loss?

anyway i think:little increments in results, accumulated over long periods and maybe works through blocking myostatin (over 8 ius block 20-40 %).

well,everything has been said.

[*Narkissos*]

For those with specific goals, maybe even higher dose 12-16 week. It really boils down to your specific goal for adding HGH in the first place ... and for most six months will give you what it has to offer.

Red.. define: "specific goals"; and "higher doses" in this context

Thanks

[Smedman101]

Thanks for the info guys! Ive been asking that same question all day to myself and I started a thread about other...like how much? ed or eod.

[graeme87]

What about burns patients or surgery patients? They give patients16iu/day for 15-20 days for burns or 10iu/day for 10days to patients just after serious surgery. Yes I know this is not for fat burning of muscle growth but there is tissue growth (healing) so I think this backs up my theory that results can been seen fast with gh if the doses are high enough. This is just my opinion, what do you guys think?

[*Narkissos*]

bump..

[got test?]

great post

[*Narkissos*]

wow.. thanks for the detailed reply Red

[rodge]

great response Rb as usual

-rodge

[Random]

Great post Red, answered all of my questions!.....

[Ufa]

Excellent post!

[oswaldosalcedo]

for mass?
for fat loss?

anyway i think:little increments in results, accumulated over long periods and maybe works through blocking myostatin (over 8 ius block 20-40 %).

I did not know this, where did the figure of 20-40% come from?

the vast majority dont know about this,that way, you see, vets are no vets,and mods are no mods (with few exceptions) ........lol............. i waited a time but nobody said nothing! ............lol.............
but for you NotSmall

1: J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2003 Nov;88(11):5490-6.

Myostatin is a skeletal muscle target of growth hormone anabolic action.Liu W, Thomas SG, Asa SL, Gonzalez-Cadavid N, Bhasin S, Ezzat S.
Department of Medicine, Mount Sinai Hospital and University of Toronto, Ontario, Canada.

Myostatin is a cytokine that has recently been shown to selectively and potently inhibit myogenesis. To investigate the mechanisms of anabolic actions of GH on skeletal muscle growth, we examined the in vitro and in vivo effects of GH on myostatin regulation. Twelve GH-deficient hypopituitary adult subjects were treated with recombinant GH (5 micro g/kg.d) in a double-blind, placebo-controlled fashion. Body composition and physical function were assessed and skeletal muscle biopsies from the vastus lateralis performed at 6-monthly intervals during 18 months of treatment. Myostatin mRNA expression was significantly inhibited to 31 +/- 9% (P < 0.001) of control by GH but not by placebo administration (79 +/- 11%) as determined by quantitative real-time PCR normalized for the housekeeping glyceraldehyde-3-phosphate dehydrogenase gene. The inhibitory effect of GH on myostatin was sustained after 12 and 18 months of GH treatment. These effects were associated with increases in lean body mass and translated into enhanced aerobic performance as determined by maximal oxygen uptake and ventilation threshold. Parallel in vitro studies of skeletal muscle cells demonstrated significant reduction of myostatin expression by myotubes in response to GH, compared with vehicle treatment. Conversely, GH receptor antagonism resulted in up-regulation of myostatin in myoblasts. Given the potent catabolic actions of myostatin, our data suggest that myostatin represents a potential key target for GH-induced anabolism.

[SPIKE]

what do you guys think?

I can add to that good point you just made.

A good friend of mine used 18iu ED for 6 weeks. He gained more LBM in those 6 weeks then he has at 3iu ED for several months at a time. I"m not saying for everyone to try this but in a short time at very high doses he saw more results then he does now following the general protocol.

To each is own.........

[vermin]

A good friend of mine used 18iu ED for 6 weeks. He gained more LBM in those 6 weeks then he has at 3iu ED for several months at a time. I"m not saying for everyone to try this but in a short time at very high doses he saw more results then he does now following the general protocol.

Yes, yes - the literature supports this in athletes! I would suspect that a PCT of GHRP or similar would be helpful after a massive dose short HGH cycle.

[tcw]

the vast majority dont know about this,that way, you see, vets are no vets,and mods are no mods (with few exceptions) ........lol............. i waited a time but nobody said nothing! ............lol.............
but for you NotSmall

1: J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2003 Nov;88(11):5490-6.

Myostatin is a skeletal muscle target of growth hormone anabolic action.Liu W, Thomas SG, Asa SL, Gonzalez-Cadavid N, Bhasin S, Ezzat S.
Department of Medicine, Mount Sinai Hospital and University of Toronto, Ontario, Canada.

Myostatin is a cytokine that has recently been shown to selectively and potently inhibit myogenesis. To investigate the mechanisms of anabolic actions of GH on skeletal muscle growth, we examined the in vitro and in vivo effects of GH on myostatin regulation. Twelve GH-deficient hypopituitary adult subjects were treated with recombinant GH (5 micro g/kg.d) in a double-blind, placebo-controlled fashion. Body composition and physical function were assessed and skeletal muscle biopsies from the vastus lateralis performed at 6-monthly intervals during 18 months of treatment. Myostatin mRNA expression was significantly inhibited to 31 +/- 9% (P < 0.001) of control by GH but not by placebo administration (79 +/- 11%) as determined by quantitative real-time PCR normalized for the housekeeping glyceraldehyde-3-phosphate dehydrogenase gene. The inhibitory effect of GH on myostatin was sustained after 12 and 18 months of GH treatment. These effects were associated with increases in lean body mass and translated into enhanced aerobic performance as determined by maximal oxygen uptake and ventilation threshold. Parallel in vitro studies of skeletal muscle cells demonstrated significant reduction of myostatin expression by myotubes in response to GH, compared with vehicle treatment. Conversely, GH receptor antagonism resulted in up-regulation of myostatin in myoblasts. Given the potent catabolic actions of myostatin, our data suggest that myostatin represents a potential key target for GH-induced anabolism.

Thats a very interesting article...and supports the necessity of longer cycles of HGH.

[NotSmall]

Thats a very interesting article...and supports the necessity of longer cycles of HGH.

Yes it's interesting but it does not necessarily support the necessity of longer cycles of HGH. Yes, the myostatin suppression continued for 18months but they only checked it after each 6 month period so how are we to know that the myostatin suppression didn't kick in on day 1?

[vermin]

That's the way I read it, too. We know that short (1 month) high dose courses are effective, at least in causing an increase in LBM and that metabolic effects of HGH are measurable almost immediately.

A casual look at the literature and it seems that the overall amount of HGH delivered - in 1 or 6 months - is similar for similar effects, at least in terms of LBM increase. This is back of the envelope stuff, I have not really carefully looked that this.