My take on IGF-1

[rodge]

is'nt intestine growth mostly due to elevated igf-II levels from high doses of hgh and not from igf-1? i thought i read somewhere that intestines mostly have igf-II receptors,could be wrong tho.

interesting read none the less.

-rodge

[Random]

is'nt intestine growth mostly due to elevated igf-II levels from high doses of hgh and not from igf-1?

Thats what i always thought...i thought it was high mega doses of GH that caused the growth and not higher doses of IGF....

[ss01]

It was an interesting read. I think you need to be careful with the scaremongering though. On reading your piece it would have many believe that shooting more than 50mcg is going to cause problems. This is not backed up with any evidence apart from the fact you say you got some PMs. You then side step this when pressed and say over 200mcg then say actually you don't know what dosage could lead to intestinal growth.
So in a nutshell IGF may or may not at an unknown dosage cause intestinal growth.

First you are right, SOME PEOPLE *MIGHT* mistakenly believe that I am stating that more than 50mcg ED *WILL* cause gut growth. When I am not. And then you are a bit wrong, because I state that I do not know for sure which dosage is the minimum amount that *WILL* cause gut growth. Yes these are nuances. Are you criticizing the fact that my post is precisely as nuanced as the bio-individual effects of IGF-1? I'll take it as a compliment. Thanks.

Agreed. I get around 100-200 e-mails a day, and only when I see a huge amount of them leaning towards a certain trend am I confident in saying that something is up. A few PMs isn't really anything....but if you only get a few PMs a day, then it's enough to say "100% of the people I know" or "Half the people who talked to me..." when in reality we're only getting a sample of around 5-10 people.

I have done way more than enough statistics to understand statistical significance. Bottom line, you ASSUME that I don't really know what I'm talking about. And because you have BOOKS (omfg!) out, then people ASSUME that what YOU assume, is right.

So while the guy above states that people understand with little nuance, you outright take advantage of that fact.

Thats what i always thought...i thought it was high mega doses of GH that caused the growth and not higher doses of IGF....

That is altogether very possible. As I have pointed out often, many of the cases were also using GH, with or without slin, and the whole spectrum of things that are available to bodybuilders. It should be way beyond OBVIOUS that I am not speaking of squeaky-clean lab data here, but of a collection of reports from users, THROUGHOUT THE YEARS. Which does make it very difficult to isolate one factor in particular.

One thing that remains, is that huge doses of IGF-1 aren't required for great results, that large doses of IGF-1 downregulate receptors real quick, rendering it mostly ineffective, and that large doses of IGF-1 *MAY* cause gut growth in some athletes, either in combination with something else or on its own. I have received anecdotal evidence that in large doses, it does.

We have all seen the guts on the larger guys, we all want to avoid it, and I present a protocol that is *OPTIMAL* in decreasing likelihood of guts and that also maximizes results at a given dose.

Ah, but the mighty people with names in blazing gold letters have not thought about it first, so we *MUST* shoot this nobody guy down! Right?

[Random]

is that huge doses of IGF-1 aren't required for great results

i Agree with that, ive gotten great results on less than 60mcg per day...good post, i understand your points and the fact that you arent claiming to be the Know-all IGF guru, youre simply stating good info from your perspective, nothin wrong with that...CD

[ss01]

i Agree with that, ive gotten great results on less than 60mcg per day...good post, i understand your points and the fact that you arent claiming to be the Know-all IGF guru, youre simply stating good info from your perspective, nothin wrong with that...CD

Your understanding is appreciated.

Some of my weak reps to you bro.

[rodge]

i agree that high dose are'nt neccasary, atleast not right away. my first 2 runs were @ 50mcg and gave me some decent results.

-rodge

[AnabolicAndre]

HMMMMMM I have read this speculation before, somewhere, I know I have....


has someone been busy playing copy & paste???

[bball_playa]

thanks for your input..... very useful

[*Narkissos*]

Interesting perspective i must admit.

Nark

[Random]

[QUOTE]Your understanding is appreciated.[/QUOTE

No prob man, im all about hearing two sides to the story, along with using minimum doses vs megadoses for my goals....CD

[perfectbeast2001]

First you are right, SOME PEOPLE *MIGHT* mistakenly believe that I am stating that more than 50mcg ED *WILL* cause gut growth. When I am not. And then you are a bit wrong, because I state that I do not know for sure which dosage is the minimum amount that *WILL* cause gut growth. Yes these are nuances. Are you criticizing the fact that my post is precisely as nuanced as the bio-individual effects of IGF-1? I'll take it as a compliment. Thanks.

I have done way more than enough statistics to understand statistical significance. Bottom line, you ASSUME that I don't really know what I'm talking about. And because you have BOOKS (omfg!) out, then people ASSUME that what YOU assume, is right.

So while the guy above states that people understand with little nuance, you outright take advantage of that fact.


That is altogether very possible. As I have pointed out often, many of the cases were also using GH, with or without slin, and the whole spectrum of things that are available to bodybuilders. It should be way beyond OBVIOUS that I am not speaking of squeaky-clean lab data here, but of a collection of reports from users, THROUGHOUT THE YEARS. Which does make it very difficult to isolate one factor in particular.

One thing that remains, is that huge doses of IGF-1 aren't required for great results, that large doses of IGF-1 downregulate receptors real quick, rendering it mostly ineffective, and that large doses of IGF-1 *MAY* cause gut growth in some athletes, either in combination with something else or on its own. I have received anecdotal evidence that in large doses, it does.

We have all seen the guts on the larger guys, we all want to avoid it, and I present a protocol that is *OPTIMAL* in decreasing likelihood of guts and that also maximizes results at a given dose.

Ah, but the mighty people with names in blazing gold letters have not thought about it first, so we *MUST* shoot this nobody guy down! Right?

Take it easy dude. I'm no expert I'm just pointing out that the first post may have over dramatized things a little and it wasn't backed up with any evidence. I still think it's a good and interesting read though.

[scrappydoo]

ttt for later

[GreenNBroken]

1234

[ss01]

I have some real fundamental usage questions if someone could help me out:
1) reconstituted shelf-life (or frig-life as the case may be)?
2) what is the the best substance to reconsititue with?
3) what brand would you suggest?

I'm a little guy 145 pounds and don't have any unrealistic expectations. I have lifted since I was 13 (21 years) so I believe I'm pretty close to my genetic potential but I would like to put on about 10 pounds in the next year. 5 years ago I tore my right pec, 50% from the arm bone, in addition it tore longitudinally, so I have a ball of pec about dead center. The under layer of pec (the major head, I didn't tear the minor upper head) has developed somewhat so I still have a mostly normal shaped chest (unless I flex) but because IGF-1 can stimulate new muscle cell growth I was hoping to kinda fill in the hole (obviously it won't re-attach muscle to bone but if the under layer were say twice as thick it would be a whole lot better).
I live in the US so I'm also interested in any legal aspects of IGF-1. I searched the DEA's site and reviewed their controlled substances schedules and IGF-1 was not on it.
Long and short, lots of basic info and supplier please.
Due to my size I've always taken half doses and based on my initial reading on IGF-1 I was planning 50 mcg's 4 days a week post workout, any opinions here would also be appreciated.

1. Reconstituted life is over a year long.
2. 100nM (0.6%) acetic acid ... or HCl solution of the same pH.
3. I know of one source that has tested their media grade and the result is 96% purity.

I am open for personal coaching on how to use IGF-1. Email me at *Read the board rules. Do not post email addresses.*

[GreenNBroken]

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[GreenNBroken]

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[LuckyDragon]

It seems like there would be a huge disparity in results in terms of hypoplasia, fat loss, pump etc between using 40mcg EOD(could afford it!) or 2 on 1 off, vs using 60-80mcg ED.


Ss01's theory seems to be that it should be primarily used for hyperplasia, which would allow the potential for future growth. Does this happen on IGF, or just allow it following the usage of it?


Anthony you seem to advocate using more 80mcg ED(couldnt afford), would using this just for PWO yield the same effects in terms of localized growth. All these questions are basically that Im more concerned with achieving localized growth then an overall fat loss, pump etc...even if its only a couple lbs. Anthony whats your theory regarding 40mcg dosages PWO? Would this be enough to cause the localized growth that Ss01 is referring too. Yes this alot of questions so thankyou


Also anyone elses experience using it is appreciated!

[ss01]

This "theory" has been tested in human trials on multiple subjects and has borne the results indicated above.

[twitchfast]

good info right here Thanks

[Skills]

Really liked what was said here, very useful and thought provoking indeed, and I could use some of sso01 coaching!

Thanks, Skills

[ss01]

Really liked what was said here, very useful and thought provoking indeed, and I could use some of sso01 coaching!

Thanks, Skills

I am available.

[Skills]

I am available.

Thanks. I haven't got enough privilleges to use PM. Can you PM your email address. Cheers

[jose1960]

I did my first IGF LR3 cycle for four weeks at 40mcg/day, at the just-worked muscle site. This gave me pretty good muscle growth result, but also gave me a bit of a gut. I'm pissed 'cause I had obviously been misinformed in that the perma gut thing would not happen with this form of IGF.

My question is there a way I can get rid of the gut, or am I stuck with this s#%t?

[mmaximus25]

One question? what was your diet like... I have found you must eat a good to high amount of carbs but you seriously need to watch the fat intake... I keep it at .25g x my body weight. Once I got off juice yet kept the IGF cycles i found I needed to keep an even better watch on fat intake... When taking IGF I... I got a gut for a couple of reasons but on juice it was easier to consume a higher amount of fat an it not effect me too bad... but once off it was harder...
Im sure you know you need a hefty amount of every type of carbs and a dose of protein with before and after every shot of IGF-1... (I usually do the 90g carbs 40g protein shake before and meal after, but to each his own)

Whats your fat intake... how much do you get a day... I got back on track with a T3 cycle, used that gut up quick for me...

I did my first IGF LR3 cycle for four weeks at 40mcg/day, at the just-worked muscle site. This gave me pretty good muscle growth result, but also gave me a bit of a gut. I'm pissed 'cause I had obviously been misinformed in that the perma gut thing would not happen with this form of IGF.

My question is there a way I can get rid of the gut, or am I stuck with this s#%t?

[BITTAPART2]

wow! joses first post and he is backing up the person who started this thread already! coincedence?

[kuad]

interesting.....

[ss01]

Perma gut at 40mcg? Really? You must be 3 feet tall and 60 lbs...

Seriously, I strongly doubt it. I think you've just bulked too hard and got some VAT.

[LILLEN]

awsome post!!!

I guy at the gym was talking about 10KG muscle in his first 16 days on IGF 1 lr3. So he is full of bullshit?
Im wondering what is the least amount of protein and carbs you should eat while on IGF? (im on Test tren cycle and thinking about IGF 1 Lr3.)
He said that I have to eat at least 600-800g of protein (im 90kg)

Can this be right?

And also I dont know if this is against the rules.. but how much coast IGF in the states? (im from sweden)

[Bigdane05]

This "theory" has been tested in human trials on multiple subjects and has borne the results indicated above.

I'm running 4 ie of GH PWO 3 0n 1off 2 on 1off if i want take use IGF1 LR3 how do i do it ? the GH in the morning and Igf 1 PWO or do i take both PWO

Thanks

[Dobie-BOY]

Great read, thanks ss01

[ss01]

I'm running 4 ie of GH PWO 3 0n 1off 2 on 1off if i want take use IGF1 LR3 how do i do it ? the GH in the morning and Igf 1 PWO or do i take both PWO

Thanks

Email me and we can discuss this in private, it is ouside of the scope of this post.

[NotSmall]

Wassup Grunt

[Snrf]

What I always wondered about IGF is this:

say you were aiming for localized growth, specifically triceps would you pin them PWO only on the days you work them specifically or do you pin them everyday regardless of which bodypart you had worked out? what about off days?

[realjo1000]

for those who use IGF-1, do you recommend cycling? 4 weeks on, 4 weeks off- type thing?

[jbarkley]

is'nt intestine growth mostly due to elevated igf-II levels from high doses of hgh and not from igf-1? i thought i read somewhere that intestines mostly have igf-II receptors,could be wrong tho.

interesting read none the less.

-rodge

That's right, skeletal muscle is effectd by IGF-1 and smooth muscle fiber is effected by IGF-2

[ss01]

What I always wondered about IGF is this:

say you were aiming for localized growth, specifically triceps would you pin them PWO only on the days you work them specifically or do you pin them everyday regardless of which bodypart you had worked out? what about off days?

Postworkout only. You may wish to train the lagging bodypart twice a week and pin it twice a week, or train triceps in one session, pin them, and then pin them again after training chest, and again after training delts.

The idea is that mechanical loading acutely upregulates IGF-1 receptors, so for any local effect, it does not make any sense to pin at any other time than immediately postworkout.

[jerseyboy]

I just read this last night over at PM. Good read. Thanks for taking the time Grunt. My first couple runs with IGF were 60 and then 80 mcgs. That was almost 2 years ago. Does this mean I have to run higher doses now or can I go back to 40?

[MMA]

IGF-1 is totally legal, so even if you get caught with some in a syringe, even if it comes to that, the police can only apologize politely for the trouble of questioning you and all that.

i appreciate all the knowledge you had to share with us, but as an issue of member safety, i want to make a point about this statement. even if you're an IGF expert, this doesn't make you a legal expert, and certainly not a legal expert in the laws of all 50 states.

this may be perfectly true in your state, but some poor sap reading this post is going to make the mistake of believing that the laws of his state are the same, and take a pinch for needle posession.

anytime you make a blanket legal statement like this about a Federal system with multiple sets of laws, you're giving out misinformation, the kind of misinformation that gets people locked up.

and seriously, when was the last time you heard the police

apologize politely for the trouble of questioning you and all that.

this sounds like a lot of wishful thinking. a much more likely scenario is that they act like complete assholes, treat you like some junkie piece of $hit, seize your stuff, and send it to the lab for analysis. many would view a massive human being with a loaded syringe as Probable Cause that the contents were an illegal steroid , lock you up and then send it to the lab. case may get thrown out after test results come back...after you spent the night in jail and $5000.00 on a lawyer. and good luck finding a judge that didn't think this constituted Probable Cause and that anyone should apologize to you for anything.

i am extremely careful giving out advice that may lead to harmful side effects, medical OR legal.

[MMA]

great post otherwise

[Property of Steroid.com]

On July 20 I got into some pretty intense discussion on another board about IGF-1. I got so rattled with the misinformation that I decided to loose my 13 years of reading on IGF-1 onto that board

The science is not readily available so I am unable to quote a paper

After 13 years of research, you are unable to quote a single paper to back up anything you've posted?

I'm no expert I'm just pointing out that the first post may have over dramatized things a little and it wasn't backed up with any evidence.

Exactly.