My take on IGF-1

**NotSmall** · 05-19-2007, 11:44 AM

Originally Posted by Anthony Roberts

After 13 years of research, you are unable to quote a single paper to back up anything you've posted?

More often than not real world evidence is more relevant than lab studies.

Are there any studies on site injecting LR3 IGF-1 postworkout in humans? - I have never seen any posted.

Originally Posted by Anthony Roberts

Exactly.

LOL, he also said:

Originally Posted by perfectbeast2001

I still think it's a good and interesting read though.

**Property of Steroid.com** · 05-19-2007, 12:21 PM

Originally Posted by NotSmall

More often than not real world evidence is more relevant than lab studies.

Agreed. But isn't it suspicious that after 13 years of research, he hasn't got a single paper to support a single claim he made?

Also...what kind of "real world evidence" can you find about IGF receptor sensitivity and IGFBP's? How does it feel when your IGF receptors are more sensitive? What does an IGFBP look like when you are training? There is no "real world" evidence on those factors, because they can ONLY be measured in a clinical environment. And those factors are what he's addressing.

For him to say in one breath that he's got no papers to back what he's saying, and that he's been researching for 13 years is B.S., and some of the papers he claims don't exist are years old already....

For years, "Real World" evidence told us that Androgen Receptors downregulated, right? Everyone knew it, from real world experience, right? It was totally obvious...to everyone.

Except it was totally wrong, and we now know that AR downregulation is a myth.

A combination of real world experience and science is best...but to claim that you've been researching something for 13 years and haven't got a single shred of evidence to support your claims in the form of a scientific study seems ingenuous.

The thing is...I'm not even saying this guy is wrong about everything he's saying...I just can't fathom doing research for 13 years and having nothing to cite to support my claims.

Let me put forth a final question:

How can you have relevant "real world" experience about something that you wouldn't even know was inside you, or even existed, if it were not for the scientific and medical studies and research which found that it exists?

**ss01** · 05-21-2007, 06:24 PM

Originally Posted by Anthony Roberts

After 13 years of research, you are unable to quote a single paper to back up anything you've posted?

Exactly.

Ah, thank you for pointing out the great flaw, Anthony. Am I _UNABLE_ to quote a single paper? Or am I _UNWILLING_ to go to the trouble of searching through them a second time around just for your pleasure? And then for what, so that people who misunderstand said papers can start endless arguments with me on details that are not related to what I am actually writing here.

No, that does not interest me. You do a good job of that yourself, and I will leave it to you. I mean, you find the most hidden meanings into otherwise self-explanatory abstracts, yourself, so... yeah, I'll leave it to you.

Or... Wait... Maybe I do have all these references here on my PC but I keep them for myself, since providing PROOF that what I say is true is worth too much to be done for free.

Yeah maybe it's that. You know something about not doing everything just for the sake of people thinking you are "generous" don't you? Something about paying them bills...

**ss01** · 05-21-2007, 06:27 PM

Originally Posted by Anthony Roberts

Agreed. But isn't it suspicious that after 13 years of research, he hasn't got a single paper to support a single claim he made?

Also...what kind of "real world evidence" can you find about IGF receptor sensitivity and IGFBP's? How does it feel when your IGF receptors are more sensitive? What does an IGFBP look like when you are training? There is no "real world" evidence on those factors, because they can ONLY be measured in a clinical environment. And those factors are what he's addressing.

For him to say in one breath that he's got no papers to back what he's saying, and that he's been researching for 13 years is B.S., and some of the papers he claims don't exist are years old already....

For years, "Real World" evidence told us that Androgen Receptors downregulated, right? Everyone knew it, from real world experience, right? It was totally obvious...to everyone.

Except it was totally wrong, and we now know that AR downregulation is a myth.

A combination of real world experience and science is best...but to claim that you've been researching something for 13 years and haven't got a single shred of evidence to support your claims in the form of a scientific study seems ingenuous.

The thing is...I'm not even saying this guy is wrong about everything he's saying...I just can't fathom doing research for 13 years and having nothing to cite to support my claims.

Let me put forth a final question:

How can you have relevant "real world" experience about something that you wouldn't even know was inside you, or even existed, if it were not for the scientific and medical studies and research which found that it exists?

You know, you come across as a scientist would. Slightly arrogant, but otherwise expressing himself with scientific objectivity. Good for you.

Well, for me, I have nothing to prove, see. I know what I know and my paying clients know that I know what I know and that is good enough.

That *YOU* and everyone else reading the conclusions of some extremely long-winded research FOR FREE would have proof that I know what I know, well what is that worth to me? What kind of pay will I get for posting up the dozens of abstracts pertaining to this? Nothing.

Why then would I do it?

And seriously, you are unable to find the "IGF-1 receptor upregulation triggered by a bout of acute resistance exercise" abstract? Dude... You wouldn't last 5 minutes doing real research if you can't find something so easy to find as this.

**Property of Steroid.com** · 05-22-2007, 06:32 AM

Originally Posted by ss01

You know, you come across as a scientist would. Slightly arrogant, but otherwise expressing himself with scientific objectivity. Good for you.

I'm actually very arrogant, not just slightly.

Well, for me, I have nothing to prove, see. I know what I know and my paying clients know that I know what I know and that is good enough.

If you start a thread on a topic, then it's reasonable that people ask you to proove the veracity of your claims.

That *YOU* and everyone else reading the conclusions of some extremely long-winded research FOR FREE would have proof that I know what I know, well what is that worth to me? What kind of pay will I get for posting up the dozens of abstracts pertaining to this? Nothing.

Credibility.

Why then would I do it?

Credibility.

And seriously, you are unable to find the "IGF-1 receptor upregulation triggered by a bout of acute resistance exercise" abstract? Dude... You wouldn't last 5 minutes doing real research if you can't find something so easy to find as this.

Not only can I find it, I've read it already. IN fact, I cited a similar study in my IGF/MGF article ("Time course of molecular responses of human skeletal muscle to acute bouts of resistance exercise"):

IGF & MGF Article

The issue here isn't whether I think you're wrong or right, the issue is that without some kind of references and such, your post is just another post, with nothing to back it up, and should be seen as speculation and conjecture. If you make claims, it's reasonable for people to ask you to at least provide some proof for them, I think.

**ss01** · 05-22-2007, 10:56 AM

I'm very much OK with that Anthony. Even though it is all 100% correct and way ahead of its time, that post is just a post, you are right. Among those who read it, are those who can read between the lines, and check some facts themselves and they will see that I am RIGHT, and/or that I have done my homework. That's all I need. To put the message across as to who is the true leader of peptide knowledge among bodybuilding circles.

The rest is just fluff. Credibility? Bah, I'll take money and satisfied clients before that any day of the week. I have no pride.

**Property of Steroid.com** · 05-22-2007, 01:24 PM

Originally Posted by ss01

I'm very much OK with that Anthony. Even though it is all 100% correct and way ahead of its time, that post is just a post, you are right. Among those who read it, are those who can read between the lines, and check some facts themselves and they will see that I am RIGHT, and/or that I have done my homework. That's all I need. To put the message across as to who is the true leader of peptide knowledge among bodybuilding circles.

The rest is just fluff. Credibility? Bah, I'll take money and satisfied clients before that any day of the week. I have no pride.

Honestly, it's basically the same information that's out there. Most of it is correct, but it's nothing that isn't on a million AAS boards already. To be a leader in an area, you need to do something that sets you apart. A post with a bunch of information that's already out there, and totally unreferenced, is not going to make you a leader of anything, or likely in anybody's eyes.

Also....credibility will get you more clients, I think. I charge $200/hour and turn down more clients than I actually take.

**Ironman5151** · 05-22-2007, 09:11 PM

......

**bigfish** · 05-23-2007, 01:41 AM

Way to go guys. All us "normal guys" want to know is an estimated mcgs a day of IGF will give us some gut growth. I would love to hear both of you guys response;since it seems both of you feel very passionate (don't think i spell that right) about this.

i will say this: that whole thing about the 60 mcgs to 200 mcgs deal didn't explasin nothing in my opinion. i'm no great researcher by any means but every pinned article I've read on any board says that over 120mcgs is a waste and will cause gut growth. So up until now I was feeling real good about doing 80 mcgs pwo.

PS. We're all on the same team guys; let's work together so we can meet our goals while staying safe.

**bigfish** · 05-23-2007, 01:42 AM

repost sorry

**Property of Steroid.com** · 05-23-2007, 05:55 AM

Originally Posted by bigfish

Way to go guys. All us "normal guys" want to know is an estimated mcgs a day of IGF will give us some gut growth. I would love to hear both of you guys response;since it seems both of you feel very passionate (don't think i spell that right) about this.

i will say this: that whole thing about the 60 mcgs to 200 mcgs deal didn't explasin nothing in my opinion. i'm no great researcher by any means but every pinned article I've read on any board says that over 120mcgs is a waste and will cause gut growth. So up until now I was feeling real good about doing 80 mcgs pwo.

PS. We're all on the same team guys; let's work together so we can meet our goals while staying safe.

I use (*and reccomend) 100mcg of IGF/PWO along with 200mcg of MGF/PWO. The IFBB pro I work with uses 120mcg PWO ( I posted his full peptide protocol here already) and he doesn't have the gut thing going on.

**jerseyboy** · 05-23-2007, 07:37 AM

Originally Posted by Anthony Roberts

I use (*and reccomend) 100mcg of IGF/PWO along with 200mcg of MGF/PWO. The IFBB pro I work with uses 120mcg PWO ( I posted his full peptide protocol here already) and he doesn't have the gut thing going on.

Ok well that's an IFBB pro. What about the average 200lb guy like me who has multiple cycles under his belt including GH, slin and IGF. The last IGF cycle I did was 80mcg's run with GH and slin. Now do I have to run 80 or more now or can I get away with dropping to a lower dose. I'm struggling for every pound at this point because I wasn't genetically gifted and am looking for new cell growth.

**bigfish** · 05-23-2007, 09:06 AM

Thanks Mr.roberts. I never planned on doing more than 80 mcgs pwo and 40 on non workout days. I was told that unless your 240+ and done about ten IGF cycles that there's no need to. I am interested in MGF. I have never used because I can't find any good info on it. Mr.roberts I did get your book but unfortunately it doesn't say anything about it; could you please direct me to some info.

**Property of Steroid.com** · 05-23-2007, 09:13 AM

Originally Posted by jerseyboy

Ok well that's an IFBB pro. What about the average 200lb guy like me who has multiple cycles under his belt including GH, slin and IGF. The last IGF cycle I did was 80mcg's run with GH and slin. Now do I have to run 80 or more now or can I get away with dropping to a lower dose. I'm struggling for every pound at this point because I wasn't genetically gifted and am looking for new cell growth.

I would run 80-100mcg if I were you. I'm your weight (5'7" though), and t I run 100mcg/day. 80mcg will be enough to get you looking fine for Temps and Joeys next weekend though.

Thanks Mr.roberts. I never planned on doing more than 80 mcgs pwo and 40 on non workout days. I was told that unless your 240+ and done about ten IGF cycles that there's no need to. I am interested in MGF. I have never used because I can't find any good info on it. Mr.roberts I did get your book but unfortunately it doesn't say anything about it; could you please direct me to some info.

I wrote the book before MGF was really available. Check this out for IGF and MGF info though:

IGF & MGF Article
Mechano Growth Factor

**plzr8** · 05-23-2007, 09:22 AM

Originally Posted by Anthony Roberts

80mcg will be enough to get you looking fine for Temps and Joeys next weekend though.

ar, hear about the sh*t that went down at XL on saturday?

**Property of Steroid.com** · 05-23-2007, 09:30 AM

Originally Posted by plzr8

ar, hear about the sh*t that went down at XL on saturday?

NO...I'm old (29)...I don't go to places like that...I don't even know anyone who does...

When I go to a bar, it's "Mc" something or "O" something.

What happened Saturday? Did someone try to light a cigarette inside, and all of the hairgel and hairspray on the guidos and guidettes set off a fire?

**plzr8** · 05-23-2007, 09:34 AM

Originally Posted by Anthony Roberts

NO...I'm old (29)...I don't go to places like that...I don't even know anyone who does...

When I go to a bar, it's "Mc" something or "O" something.

What happened Saturday? Did someone try to light a cigarette inside, and all of the hairgel and hairspray on the guidos and guidettes set off a fire?

lol settle down old man, didnt mean to ruffle your feathers

nah some drunken fight resulted in 1 dead body courtesy of 4 bullets...tragic & pointless

**jerseyboy** · 05-23-2007, 09:52 AM

Man where you been? Temps closed up like 3 years ago. I'm 36 now so I very rarely go to clubs but I'll probably venture over to Surf Club once or twice this year. I don't even drink but I still like the music and the hotties in bikinis.

**Property of Steroid.com** · 05-23-2007, 10:02 AM

Originally Posted by jerseyboy

Man where you been? Temps closed up like 3 years ago. I'm 36 now so I very rarely go to clubs but I'll probably venture over to Surf Club once or twice this year. I don't even drink but I still like the music and the hotties in bikinis.

Not my thing, all around.

**Gear** · 05-23-2007, 10:12 AM

All my boys use and have been using 80mcg+, many use 100mcg+ and never had this gut problem. One of them is almost pro, so lets count him out, but the rest of them are normal every day gym junkies just like the rest of us. Actually, a friend of mine used IGF 4 weeks ON/OFF for 8 months, he used 100mcg and never had a problem either. I don't know about this gut thing, everyone if different perhaps.

-Gear

**WEBB** · 05-23-2007, 10:17 AM

i use 100mcg ed for 4 weeks on 4 weeks off 4 weeks on 4 months off...no gut problem here just absolutely love it...great gains and have no problems other than headaches when i use it pre comp...

**bigfish** · 05-23-2007, 12:22 PM

Thanks for the links

**Gear** · 05-23-2007, 03:17 PM

Webb,

I was thinking of running higher doses such as 120mcg. Are the benefits worth it when compared to say 60mcg? I ask because I am assuming you have taken both lower and higher doses.

-Gear

**The Natural** · 05-24-2007, 02:08 PM

Well... I have to admit that ss01 has some points, even though you manhandled him Anthony Roberts.

I have done one lr3 IGF-1 cycle on 50mcg ED for 6 weeks. in my biceps before training... (I know realise I was stupid)
But now, a year later, I have grown my biceps MUCH more than any other bodypart. How can this be, if lr3 works for the whole body?

How should I shoot IGF then? How much?
Should I do site injections PWO on the bodyparts trained?

My overall strenght is up... but most noticeable on biceps.

Just had to get some answers outta you expert guys!

Thanks for any help.

**Gear** · 05-25-2007, 02:39 AM

Originally Posted by The Natural

Well... I have to admit that ss01 has some points, even though you manhandled him Anthony Roberts.

I have done one lr3 IGF-1 cycle on 50mcg ED for 6 weeks. in my biceps before training... (I know realise I was stupid)
But now, a year later, I have grown my biceps MUCH more than any other bodypart. How can this be, if lr3 works for the whole body?

How should I shoot IGF then? How much?
Should I do site injections PWO on the bodyparts trained?

My overall strenght is up... but most noticeable on biceps.

Just had to get some answers outta you expert guys!

Thanks for any help.

Even though some claim LR3 can help bring up lagging parts, it really shouldn't do that. You can still shoot it in your biceps if you like. I would hit my bis, tris or delts PWO, but you don't necessaraly have to shoot in the body part you just worked. As for how much you should take, well that really ***ends on the person, but I believe not matter what you use you should always start of on a low dose and only increase the dose if you feel its necessary.

-Gear

**ss01** · 05-26-2007, 08:40 PM

Originally Posted by Anthony Roberts

Honestly, it's basically the same information that's out there. Most of it is correct, but it's nothing that isn't on a million AAS boards already. To be a leader in an area, you need to do something that sets you apart. A post with a bunch of information that's already out there, and totally unreferenced, is not going to make you a leader of anything, or likely in anybody's eyes.

Also....credibility will get you more clients, I think. I charge $200/hour and turn down more clients than I actually take.

Uh, dude. I knew everything on the stuff before you even knew the existence of IGF-1. Or was it back when you were calling it "useless"? Whichever it is, the information that is out there on the boards, that is correct, IS THERE BECAUSE *I* DID THE FVCKING RESEARCH AND *I* POSTED IT UP. The others took it from me, so yeah I am the leader. And you, well you are... "Anthony Roberts"...

**ss01** · 05-26-2007, 08:47 PM

Originally Posted by Gear

All my boys use and have been using 80mcg+, many use 100mcg+ and never had this gut problem. One of them is almost pro, so lets count him out, but the rest of them are normal every day gym junkies just like the rest of us. Actually, a friend of mine used IGF 4 weeks ON/OFF for 8 months, he used 100mcg and never had a problem either. I don't know about this gut thing, everyone if different perhaps.

-Gear

Well, Ronnie Coleman and other big pros got the guts from peptides. It is from GH & insulin , which together trigger the release of IGF-1 into the bloodstream. This combo also triggers the release of IGF-2 into the bloodstream and it now seems possible that this latter be more responsible for gut growth than IGF-1, which would be good news for all users. Still, prudence is warranted. The results off IGF-1 can take a long time to fully materialize, and it is active on almost all cells in the body, so writing off gut growth completely is scientifically unsound, unless some new research proves it.

Originally Posted by The Natural

Well... I have to admit that ss01 has some points, even though you manhandled him Anthony Roberts.

I have done one lr3 IGF-1 cycle on 50mcg ED for 6 weeks. in my biceps before training... (I know realise I was stupid)
But now, a year later, I have grown my biceps MUCH more than any other bodypart. How can this be, if lr3 works for the whole body?

How should I shoot IGF then? How much?
Should I do site injections PWO on the bodyparts trained?

My overall strenght is up... but most noticeable on biceps.

Just had to get some answers outta you expert guys!

Thanks for any help.

If you think he "manhandled" me, then you need a bit of a reality check, buddy. That being said, your results are another example of how long it can take to see the full effects from IGF-1. So, what if gut growth is real but takes a couple years to show up? All the guys doing the 200mcg thing are going to be unhappy ... eventually. Hey and by then they will be able to blame anything at all.[/quote]

**rodge** · 05-27-2007, 03:55 AM

Originally Posted by ss01

And you, well you are... "Anthony Roberts"...

no he is not, even that is a lie

-rodge

**ss01** · 05-27-2007, 09:32 AM

I know, that is why I put that between quotes.

**jerseyboy** · 05-27-2007, 10:19 AM

Actually I've been reading on another board that mixing GH and slin in the same pin and going IM PWO can help with site growth also. It has been said that it actually works better than IGF for that purpose.

**Property of Steroid.com** · 05-27-2007, 10:44 AM

Originally Posted by ss01

Uh, dude. I knew everything on the stuff before you even knew the existence of IGF-1. Or was it back when you were calling it "useless"? Whichever it is, the information that is out there on the boards, that is correct, IS THERE BECAUSE *I* DID THE FVCKING RESEARCH AND *I* POSTED IT UP. The others took it from me, so yeah I am the leader. And you, well you are... "Anthony Roberts"...

I guess. I knew about it in 1996 when TC wrote about it for MM2k, actually. Reality check...you aren't a leader...you're another guy on the internet.

As for "my name in quotes" that's been explained a million times already, "ss01" (which I guess is your real name)..but I suppose you earn $200 an hour just like I do, talking about PEDs, right? Because you're the leader....who everyone took all their research from (oddly, since every decent article on IGF actually has references and you never post any).
The reality is you're another guy posting on the 'net, and that's all. There's half a dozen people who earn their living (in the world) like I do, and you're not one of them.

HBO has called me to talk about IGF, a radio show has had me on the air to talk about IGF, I've written a book on it, and GQ has called me to talk about IGF. When you've got those credentials, then maybe you can claim to be....something more than another guy on the 'net. Which is exactly what you are, dispite claiming otherwise.

**RoadToRecovery** · 05-27-2007, 11:13 AM

Originally Posted by Anthony Roberts

I guess. I knew about it in 1996 when TC wrote about it for MM2k, actually. Reality check...you aren't a leader...you're another guy on the internet.

As for "my name in quotes" that's been explained a million times already, "ss01" (which I guess is your real name)..but I suppose you earn $200 an hour just like I do, talking about PEDs, right? Because you're the leader....who everyone took all their research from (oddly, since every decent article on IGF actually has references and you never post any).
The reality is you're another guy posting on the 'net, and that's all. There's half a dozen people who earn their living (in the world) like I do, and you're not one of them.

HBO has called me to talk about IGF, a radio show has had me on the air to talk about IGF, I've written a book on it, and GQ has called me to talk about IGF. When you've got those credentials, then maybe you can claim to be....something more than another guy on the 'net. Which is exactly what you are, dispite claiming otherwise.

ss01... while ive been following your research I must say you really dont have any references posted. At all...

**ss01** · 05-27-2007, 11:19 AM

Originally Posted by Anthony Roberts

I guess. I knew about it in 1996 when TC wrote about it for MM2k, actually. Reality check...you aren't a leader...you're another guy on the internet.

As for "my name in quotes" that's been explained a million times already, "ss01" (which I guess is your real name)..but I suppose you earn $200 an hour just like I do, talking about PEDs, right? Because you're the leader....who everyone took all their research from (oddly, since every decent article on IGF actually has references and you never post any).
The reality is you're another guy posting on the 'net, and that's all. There's half a dozen people who earn their living (in the world) like I do, and you're not one of them.

HBO has called me to talk about IGF, a radio show has had me on the air to talk about IGF, I've written a book on it, and GQ has called me to talk about IGF. When you've got those credentials, then maybe you can claim to be....something more than another guy on the 'net. Which is exactly what you are, dispite claiming otherwise.

Ah, so those are credentials huh.

Being able to fool the majority into thinking you know your stuff is such a great accomplishment, I must hand it to you, boy.

I knew about IGF-1 in 1992 when I was talking with GroPep researchers about their LR3. Doesn't mean I brag about "who" I am and use it to overcharge unsuspecting, uneducated people and just spew misinformation at them like gospel. And so you have a book published, and HBO and GQ. Yippdi-do. Hey did you see, there was a special TV show about Greg Valentino, I'm sure that means he is superstar material and one of the greatest bodybuilders of all time.

**ss01** · 05-27-2007, 11:20 AM

Originally Posted by RoadToRecovery

ss01... while ive been following your research I must say you really dont have any references posted. At all...

I don't and there is a reason why I don't. So?

There are some true scientists behind me, unlike "Anthony Roberts" who has no formal education in the field, who back up EVERYTHING I write. Funny huh? So yea, my posts are without references. They don't need any.

If you need references, I'm sure you love "Anthony Roberts" who can use any unrelated research on anything as a reference and pull a way to try and make it seem like a "reference" out of his ass and it sticks for people who don't know any better. Now THAT is a true feat. Magic, really.

**Property of Steroid.com** · 05-27-2007, 11:40 AM

Originally Posted by ss01

There are some true scientists behind me

None of which you'll name, and none of which will come here to back you up, I'm sure. What seperates you from anyone else on the 'net? Nothing, except the claim that you're the "leader" and have been doing this for years, blah blah blah....you're the same as everyone else on the 'net, but you claim otherwise, and have no proof. Ok...

I (co)wrote an article with a doctor (it's a sticky here)...have you? I'm sure you have. You're the leader....right?

**RoadToRecovery** · 05-27-2007, 12:17 PM

Originally Posted by ss01

I don't and there is a reason why I don't. So?

There are some true scientists behind me, unlike "Anthony Roberts" who has no formal education in the field, who back up EVERYTHING I write. Funny huh? So yea, my posts are without references. They don't need any.

If you need references, I'm sure you love "Anthony Roberts" who can use any unrelated research on anything as a reference and pull a way to try and make it seem like a "reference" out of his ass and it sticks for people who don't know any better. Now THAT is a true feat. Magic, really.

Im sorry, but even a high school research paper needs references... and not only that, references show that you have a foundation of your theorys... other wise like Mr. Roberts said... youll just become another guy on the net.

Bottom line is... if you dont have references and claim you dont need any... than you wind up sounding like a crack pot.

**ginkobulloba** · 05-27-2007, 12:20 PM

Well this is about the 1000th thread I've seen with a certain industry leader that has turned into another ego pissing match. Aside from that, there is some good information in this thread.

**Property of Steroid.com** · 05-27-2007, 02:23 PM

Originally Posted by ginkobulloba

Well this is about the 1000th thread I've seen with a certain industry leader that has turned into another ego pissing match. Aside from that, there is some good information in this thread.

Welcome to the internet.

Virtually every top name in this industry, or any related industry has done the same. Bill Roberts, Pat Arnold, etc, etc, etc...have all done the same thing...Cosgrove, Cressey, Heffernan, Berardi, etc...it doesn't matter who you are...if someone can stop playing WarCraft long enough to attack you on the 'net , they will, even if they've got nothing to back it up and you've got everything.

Honestly...literally every industry leader (diet, steroids , training, etc...) has done the same thing, more than once....and it's usually because of the same reason...it's garbage.

**ss01** · 05-27-2007, 02:48 PM

Absolutely, that's why your bashing my thread is not something I will worry about at all. It comes with being what I am.

**Property of Steroid.com** · 05-27-2007, 03:00 PM

I'm not bashing the thread per se...I'm just pointing out that you've come along, as a guy who isn't published, has no credentials, and doesn't feel the need to cite any references for any claims he makes, and is posting under an anonymous name on a steroid discussion board, and claiming to be a leader in this industry. It's a bit silly, to be totally honest...and if you were a leader in the industry, surely someone would actually know who you are, and in what way you are a leader, but nobody here actually knows who the hell you are, or why you'd make such a claim. No matter how respected you are on message boards, you aren't an industry leader until you actually lead the industry. Message board respect is...not too much, really. And being "known" and "published" (or even a self proclaimed industry leader) on the internet is like losing your virginity to your sister...true, you're not a virgin any more...but I wouldn't brag about it.