Lion vs S-P

[AnabolicAndre]

oh MR. LION where arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrre youuu?

[Property of Steroid.com]

The "Real Carlito"? There's only been one Carlito that I've ever known about for the last 5 years...from Mike Strong's board, and Outlaw....

[Property of Steroid.com]

Just so everybody knows, the owner of this site has also met Carlito...he's not me, I'm not him, and neither of us are S-P.

[Carlito B]

How can your customers be exclusive when you advertise publicly?

Where? you tell me please....

I run two separate businesses FYI and you will never find out about it because I do not advertise and if you do is only for an exclusive group of people.

C

[Phreak101]

Where? you tell me please....

I run two separate businesses FYI and you will never find out about it because I do not advertise and if you do is only for an exclusive group of people.

C

My mistake, sorry for the confusion. Carlito your demeanor has changed a lot since you first started posting, I guess you're just jaded from all the BS going around with this forum, I didnt mean to call you out, I just have not posted here in awhile.

[Phreak101]

I posted the same post in Lion's research chem forum as well, we'll see if he responds...

[Phreak101]

I posted the same post in Lion's research chem forum as well, we'll see if he responds...

My post in that forum got deleted! WTF!?

[Carlito B]

The "Real Carlito"? There's only been one Carlito that I've ever known about for the last 5 years...from Mike Strong's board, and Outlaw....

That is true!

And is also true the owner of this board has met me about 4 weeks ago i believe, I apologize to you ( owner ) if I come on to harsh and you know I have no particular interest here like most think but I am angry that these people( some members ) because they were never fair to S-P and never gave him the opportunity.

Thanks,

C

[cmax]

Close this thread if it means me getting banend for asking, but I have been told by someone I trust, as they would have no reason for telling me otherwise, that Lion has claimed that S-P's IGF-1 did not test as IGF, and real IGF needs to be shipped on ice. S-P does not ship their IGF on ice, and that confuses me.

I have doubts that Lion actually said this and if he did then you should let him speak for himself.

I don't think that Lion will appreciate you starting trouble between him and S-P.

This thread should have never been posted, you should have asked your questions to S-P by PM or email and let them rebut your claims before you slandering them with accusations.

[cmax]

For what it's worth I have delt with both Lion Nutrition and S-P in the past they are both reputable companies with great products.

S-P is part of a much larger company which sells research chemicals and much more than just peptides, but I can't mention the name here because they have contractual agreements which prevent them from naming their parent company on this forum. However, they are a very reputable company that I have bought from for years.

Both Lion and S-P have very comparable products. To me this is like arguing about whether coke or pepsi is better.

[Phreak101]

I have doubts that Lion actually said this and if he did then you should let him speak for himself.

I don't think that Lion will appreciate you starting trouble between him and S-P.

This thread should have never been posted, you should have asked your questions to S-P by PM or email and let them rebut your claims before you slandering them with accusations.

The members of this board deserve to know who they are buying from. WHy this should this be done privately, if either of these companies have nothing to hide it should not matter.

I buy from Lion all the time, and his products for the most part are AOK with me. There is a thread in here with Lion calling out SP's products, specifically the way it is sent. Its entitled "Is my IGF ruined?" or something. All I wanted to accomplish was a public viewing of the companies backing up what they tell us in private. Why keep it private? So I can be lied to or misled?

SP has given me no reason to doubt them, and they seem to have a pretty good speaker on their behalf (Hooker), and ion has never given me reason either. But when one sponsor starts telling people, both publicly and privately, that another sponsors products are bunk, I'm gonna call them out on it, and you seem to be the only one that is NOT interested in the results.

No malice here, I'm just asking for clarification from one sponsor about their claims they made against another sponsor.

[Phreak101]

Both Lion and S-P have very comparable products. To me this is like arguing about whether coke or pepsi is better.

If Coke told me Pepsi used fake ingredients to flavor their soda, I'd ask Coke to defend its claims as well. Especially if each pepsi cost $175.

[Property of Steroid.com]

For what it's worth I have delt with both Lion Nutrition and S-P in the past they are both reputable companies with great products.

S-P is part of a much larger company which sells research chemicals and much more than just peptides, but I can't mention the name here because they have contractual agreements which prevent them from naming their parent company on this forum. However, they are a very reputable company that I have bought from for years.

Both Lion and S-P have very comparable products. To me this is like arguing about whether coke or pepsi is better.

At least someone knows that S-P is not me!

It's actually very laughable, and I think the people who thought S-P was me would feel very stupid to find out who S-P actually is....

it's actually kind of funny for people to think that I'm them...really, if you know who they are, you know that I AM NOT THEM....I only became personally acquainted with them this year, and they've been in buisness for years.

This is as funny (read: idiotic) as when people thought I was Lion a few months ago on another board....

[cmax]

The members of this board deserve to know who they are buying from. WHy this should this be done privately, if either of these companies have nothing to hide it should not matter.*snipped*

Its entitled "Is my IGF ruined?" or something. All I wanted to accomplish was a public viewing of the companies backing up what they tell us in private. Why keep it private? So I can be lied to or misled?

But when one sponsor starts telling people, both publicly and privately, that another sponsors products are bunk, I'm gonna call them out on it, and you seem to be the only one that is NOT interested in the results.

Well in a *real world* situation if you were a person of significance with sizable assets and S-P was a large corporation and you publicly said that their product was garbage without any concrete proof or evidence you could be sued and held liable for your words if your claims turned out to be false.

It's best to gather your evidence in private and make claims against them directly so that you can actually build up a case before you go slandering them.

It sounds like you have no proof of anything you say.

You claim the following:

I have been told by someone I trust, as they would have no reason for telling me otherwise, that Lion has claimed that S-P's IGF-1 did not test as IGF, and real IGF needs to be shipped on ice.

So you heard from "someone" that Lion might have said "something" about S-P products.

(1) You did not hear this directly from Lion, you heard this from "someone" who might be FOS and might have changed his actual words.
(2) You don't have any proof or test results that prove that the IGF-1 is fake.
(3) Lion is a competitor of S-P so by nature he is going to be biased against them and vice versa.

So why exactly did Lion delete this thread from his own section if those were truly his words?

It looks to me like he does not want you speaking for him and causing trouble between him and a competitor.

You're lucky that these are small time businesses and your just some random joe, because if you were actually someone significant who people would actually listen to and you did this with two large corporations you would have your ass handed to you on a platter in the court room.

Small businesses have rights just like people do.

[cmax]

But when one sponsor starts telling people, both publicly and privately, that another sponsors products are bunk, I'm gonna call them out on it, and you seem to be the only one that is NOT interested in the results.

Please provide a credible link which shows where "one sponsor" indicated "publicly" that another sponsors products are bunk.

If you can't do this then I have no reason to believe anything you say. If it is a public statement then it should be readily available for everyone.

[Property of Steroid.com]

So why exactly did Lion delete this thread from his own section if those were truly his words?
.

Well, that thread made reference to the existence of this thread, as I recall. So if Lion read that thread, he knows of the existence of this other thread, and now knows that it's being called into question whether he actually has the lab tests that this member claims that he said he did.

So it's appropriate to come here and set things right, and either fess up for actually saying those things, and provide lab tests, deny ever saying them....or....whatever the case may be.

[cmax]

Well, that thread made reference to the existence of this thread, as I recall. So if Lion read that thread, he knows of the existence of this other thread, and now knows that it's being called into question whether he actually has the lab tests that this member claims that he said he did.

So it's appropriate to come here and set things right, and either fess up for actually saying those things, and provide lab tests, deny ever saying them....or....whatever the case may be.

I agree completely.

He posted this thread verbatim over in Lion's area and it was deleted, so he reposted a new post making reference to the existence of this thread and asking why his original post had been deleted.

I also give credit to S-P for not deleting this claim against their integrity.

[Phreak101]

BOLD

Well in a *real world* situation if you were a person of significance with sizable assets and S-P was a large corporation and you publicly said that their product was garbage without any concrete proof or evidence you could be sued and held liable for your words if your claims turned out to be false.

Wrong. Entities are not protected under libel/slander laws because they are the subject of public opinion. Try again.

It's best to gather your evidence in private and make claims against them directly so that you can actually build up a case before you go slandering them.

I'm not slandering anyone. It was said IN ANOTHER POST BY LION! Learn to read.

It sounds like you have no proof of anything you say.

You claim the following:

I have been told by someone I trust, as they would have no reason for telling me otherwise, that Lion has claimed that S-P's IGF-1 did not test as IGF, and real IGF needs to be shipped on ice.

Yes, that's correct, and I/he also has PM's and a public thread showing the same thing.

So you heard from "someone" that Lion might have said "something" about S-P products.

(1) You did not hear this directly from Lion, you heard from someone who might be FOS and might have changed his words.

Incorrect...see above.

(2) You don't have any proof or test results that prove that the IGF-1 is fake.

Never said I did, nor is that the issue. Lion quoted that the shipping should be done a different way, and told a member, privately, on PM's available upon request, that SP's IGF was phony. Again, not my words.

(3) Lion is a competitor of S-P so by nature he is going to be biased against them and vice versa.

Yes but they both have the ability to delete posts and monitor forums, making them the only source of information on the products we are asking about. This isn't biased?

So why exactly did Lion delete this thread from his own section if those were truly his words?

Ask him, I don't know.

It looks to me like he does not want you speaking for him and causing trouble between him and a competitor.

Or maybe he does not want to the controversy of what I am bringing up because of what happened last time...

You're lucky that these are small time businesses and your just some random joe, because if you were actually someone significant who people would actually listen to and you did this with two large corporations you would have your ass handed to you on a platter in the court room.

So McDonald's is gonna sue me for telling people their meat is made out of sawdust? Please, save your drama for your mama and don't spout semantic law to me.

Small businesses have rights just like people do.

Who are you his mother? This post is about one sponsor bashing another, and I, along with many others, would like to know why, plain and simple. This isn't a supermarket, this is a forum being run BY THE SPONSORS who we have to depend on for the information regarding these substances. if both sponsors are telling us two different things, how are we to make an informed decision. This isn't mouthwash we are talking about, this is a potentially dangerous and expensive substance that we want the facts on.

[1819]

Phreak101 ,

Why are you trying to start some shit, don't you have something better to do? some money to make or something?

You people are so bitter and that is why I no longer post here...I try to stay away from negative people like all of you!

I got more positive things to do like running my own business and making money.

You guys act like children and I feel sorry for you.

Good bye.

C

well you should be posting here if your a sponsor rep. like it or not. and why would sp be allowed to delete anything? where did that bullsh*t power come from? for the record i havnt used sp so i will say nothing bad about the prodcucts and give them credit for posting findings even if people dont agree with them. thats what they have and they stand by it. as far as lion, i have used many products and have always had a good experience.

[Brie]

I'm sorry if my negative attitude bothers you, but really I am speaking my opinion. You know as well as I do that no one can get a straight answer to their questions. A few good people that have been with this forum for years have left this forum because of quote/unquote B.S. on this board. Get some straight answers to the questions people have on the products. No one else seems to have a problem with my outspoken-ness. And for the record I am female as you can see by my avi, so I dont give a shit if you are male or female since you have a car representing your face!

[cmax]

Provide links to lions actual words and post them in this thread. If you cannot do this then I will not believe a word you are saying.

You have not been able to back up any of your claims. If you provide links to his actual words then people might actually have a reason to believe you.

You obviously know absolutely nothing about libel and slander laws.

So McDonald's is gonna sue me for telling people their meat is made out of sawdust? Please, save your drama for your mama and don't spout semantic law to me.

It totally sounds like your a little immature child with little more than a high school education. No one is going to listen or sue you because you are nobody.

[Phreak101]

Provide links to lions actual words and post them in this thread. If you cannot do this then I will not believe a word you are saying.

You have not been able to back up any of your claims. If you provide links to his actual words then people might actually have a reason to believe you.

You obviously know absolutely nothing about libel and slander laws.



It totally sounds like your a little immature child with little more than a high school education. No one is going to listen or sue you because you are nobody.

Lion
AR Sponsor Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,917


Re: igf is bad

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

the igf they are selling didn't test as igf. I don't know what to tell you ...visit one of our other stores. we still have it there.


Hey Cmax,

The person on this board allowed me access to these as proof that he was not lying. I don't know what else to show you. This is NOT my personal crusade, i do not have problems with EITHER OF THEM!

I'll state this again, I AM SIMPLY CONCERNED WHY ONE SPONSOR WHO HAS THE ABILITY TO MONITOR THE INFO WE SEE IS BASHING ANOTHER'S PRODUCT!

[cmax]

That's not a link to a publicly made claim in a thread that you said you had about above. Where is this thread you are talking about?

I want to read it for myself, don't cut-and-paste the words here, give us the actual link to the thread.

How do I know that those are his actual words?

Hey Cmax,

And thanks for proving my point about your maturity level.

I have found the same unsurpassed level of maturity in many of your other posts here as well. You are quite an asset to this site!

[Phreak101]

That's not a link to a publicly made claim in a thread that you said you had about above. Where is this thread you are talking about?

I want to read it for myself, don't cut-and-paste the words here, give us the actual link to the thread.

How do I know that those are his actual words?



And thanks for proving my point about your maturity level.

I have found the same unsurpassed level of maturity in many of your other posts here as well. You are quite an asset to this site!

It's a PM dude, I dont know what to tell you. The public link is posted here. Stop butting into this unless you can offer something. I'm done arguing with you. Anthony ROberts has made the best post in this whole thread, and I agree with him 100%. Until that happens, I'm going to remain in question. Let Lion defend himself. He doesnt need you acting as his agent.

If I save 1 person from spending $500 for nothing, I think everyone will agree I'm a better asset than yourself.

I don't want to argue with you, I just want some clarification. i am done bashing and posting, no need to escalate this to another riot.

[jdog55]

...........

[cmax]

Ok, I am done too.

I just wanted to state my faith in S-P products and the good experiences that I have had with them and their parent company in the past.

[Phreak101]

Ok, I am done too.

I just wanted to state my faith in S-P products and the good experiences that I have had with them and their parent company in the past.

Cmax honestly, I dont doubt Lion or SP. Both seem to have a very reputable history!

It was just a very weird occurence and I, along with many others, am curious as to why it happened.

Again, NO MALICE TOWARDS EITHER!

[Carlito B]

I have doubts that Lion actually said this and if he did then you should let him speak for himself.

I don't think that Lion will appreciate you starting trouble between him and S-P.

This thread should have never been posted, you should have asked your questions to S-P by PM or email and let them rebut your claims before you slandering them with accusations.

exactly!

thanks for posting that!

phreak101 is an instigator and this is nothing but poisonous BS only some old nosy women would do not us grown men.

C

[clomid222]

S-P should not be sending out their IGF-1 without an ice pack if it is already constituted. If they send out their powder and liquids separately it would be fine, but in NO WAY WHATSOEVER SHOULD THEY BE SENDING WARM CONSTITUTED IGF-1 if they do this then their SOLUTION WILL BE RUINED!

PEROID.

[clomid222]

S-P should not be sending out their IGF-1 without an ice pack if it is already constituted. If they send out their powder and liquids separately it would be fine, but in NO WAY WHATSOEVER SHOULD THEY BE SENDING WARM CONSTITUTED IGF-1 if they do this then their SOLUTION WILL BE RUINED!

PEROID.

[Phreak101]

exactly!

thanks for posting that!

phreak101 is an instigator and this is nothing but poisonous BS only some old nosy women would do not us grown men.

C

You act as if I'm bashing SP, I'm more concerned with Lion's accusations of SP. Ive stated numerous times that I believe SP is reputable, especially since Hooker is backing you. Not once did I bash SP's or Lion's products, stop acting like I'm trying to bring one of them down.

[AnabolicAndre]

S-P should not be sending out their IGF-1 without an ice pack if it is already constituted. If they send out their powder and liquids separately it would be fine, but in NO WAY WHATSOEVER SHOULD THEY BE SENDING WARM CONSTITUTED IGF-1 if they do this then their SOLUTION WILL BE RUINED!

PEROID.

do you have any back to this claim?

[Carlito B]

I'm sorry if my negative attitude bothers you, but really I am speaking my opinion. You know as well as I do that no one can get a straight answer to their questions. A few good people that have been with this forum for years have left this forum because of quote/unquote B.S. on this board. Get some straight answers to the questions people have on the products. No one else seems to have a problem with my outspoken-ness. And for the record I am female as you can see by my avi, so I dont give a shit if you are male or female since you have a car representing your face!

this one better?

BTW anabolicandre, love the avatar

C

[Phreak101]

S-P should not be sending out their IGF-1 without an ice pack if it is already constituted. If they send out their powder and liquids separately it would be fine, but in NO WAY WHATSOEVER SHOULD THEY BE SENDING WARM CONSTITUTED IGF-1 if they do this then their SOLUTION WILL BE RUINED!

PEROID.

You only have 22 posts, how are we to trust this without posting any research?

[comradebillyboy]

Is ths the thread you are all excited about? Its a few threads down from this one. wtf? if my IGF ruined?
Lion asserts that shipping reconstituted igf is bad, s-p responds that its ok.

[clomid222]

You only have 22 posts, how are we to trust this without posting any research?

Why should my post count matter? It is relatively common knowledge that IGF-1 needs to be refrigerated after it is reconstituted (in a manner similar to HCG ). Before the powder and liquid have been mixed it can be stored at any temperature.

It is better to purchase IGF-1 separated because it will stay good longer and is less susceptible to being damaged by heat. I would only buy IGF-1 that has not yet been reconstituted. Forget about dealing with ICE packs and the risk of it being damaged by the heat. You always want to buy your compounds in the most stable form which for IGF-1 is lyophilized or (in Powder form).

If you want a good reference on this matter ask Russ Scala the director of Research & Development at Signature Compounding Pharmacy in Orlando, Florida. The IGF-1 that he produces is far superior to research grade IGF-1 and their entire lab is FDA approved. They will tell you the same thing that I am telling you. Google "Russ Scala" and ask him these questions. He is a credible expert in these matters.

[Phreak101]

Why should my post count matter? It is relatively common knowledge that IGF-1 needs to be refrigerated after it is reconstituted (in a manner similar to HCG ). Before the powder and liquid have been mixed it can be stored at any temperature.

It is better to purchase IGF-1 separated because it will stay good longer and is less susceptible to being damaged by heat. I would only buy IGF-1 that has not yet been reconstituted. Forget about dealing with ICE packs and the risk of it being damaged by the heat. You always want to buy your compounds in the most stable form which for IGF-1 is lyophilized or (in Powder form).

If you want a good reference on this matter ask Russ Scala the director of Research & Development at Signature Compounding Pharmacy in Orlando, Florida. The IGF-1 that he produces is far superior to research grade IGF-1 and their entire lab is FDA approved. They will tell you the same thing that I am telling you. Google "Russ Scala" and ask him these questions. He is a credible expert in these matters.

I don't doubt your smarts bro, honestly. We just have a lot of low post count people suddenly come on here and start touting in favor of sides sometimes, so we are wary..

The knowledge you posted I would bet is correct, but again, we have to be cautious as to who we believe.

[clomid222]

Lion asserts that shipping reconstituted igf is bad, s-p responds that its ok.

Lion is absolutely correct on this one. Lyophilized IGF-1 (powder form) will always be superior and more desirable to have than reconstituted IGF-1. It's more stable, will last longer, and will run less risk of being damaged by heat.

If I personally had to choose between the two products I would definitely buy the Lyophilized IGF-1 even if it costs more.

Hey steroid -peptides, why do you sell reconstituted IGF-1 rather than Lyophilized?

This does not make any sense. It must be cheaper this way for some reason.

[clomid222]

I don't doubt your smarts bro, honestly. We just have a lot of low post count people suddenly come on here and start touting in favor of sides sometimes, so we are wary..

The knowledge you posted I would bet is correct, but again, we have to be cautious as to who we believe.

I have nothing to gain from supporting either side. My low post count should go to show you that I have no strong ties to anyone on this board. I have no ulterior motives here.

I am just trying to state an obvious fact... that IGF-1 in powder form is superior.

That IGF-1 that you bought that came in liquid form was made from a powder. It was a powder before it was a liquid. Right?

Well wouldn't you rather have that powder that was used to make the liquid so that you could mix it yourself and know that it is still good? Or would you rather have some unknown solution that you don't know the history of?

This seems like a no-brainer to me.

[Phreak101]

I have nothing to gain from supporting either side. My low post count should go to show you that I have no strong ties to anyone on this board. I have no ulterior motives here.

I am just trying to state an obvious fact... that IGF-1 in powder form is superior.

That IGF-1 that you bought that came in liquid form was made from a powder. It was a powder before it was a liquid. Right?

Well wouldn't you rather have that powder that was used to make the liquid so that you could mix it yourself and know that it is still good? Or would you rather have some unknown solution that you don't know the history of?

This seems like a no-brainer to me.

I really have no opinion, nor any knowledge of the subject. But one sponsor who is supposed to be an expert, has refuted what another sponsor, who should be as well, has said about IGF.

My concern is how can people be expected to come here for safe and solid advice when we have two different "experts" telling us different things and/or slandering each other's products? People are accusing me of bashing Lion and/or SP and instigating trouble, but I would imagine people would like to know these things before they risk their money and their health. To me, that seems like a no brainer..