Humalog and Humulin R Insulin information...... a basic guide

[Hazard]

This was posted by The_Anonymizer over at another forum......

I decided to copy/paste the info here because of all the interest in insulin lately. It's a great read!

~Haz~

Monster's Insulin Primer!

Ok, lets have a look at insulin.
Its highly anabolic and non-androgenic , and in case some of you are in the dark (I'd like to think we're all clear on anabolic versus androgenic, but ya never know) I'll briefly touch on the subject before diving in... if youre ok on anabolic/androgenic concepts, skip to the INSULIN part...
ANDROGENIC VERSUS ANABOLIC
ANABOLIC is defined as "The process of constructive metabolism" or of building complex substances out of simple substances.
The way your body processes protien, carbohydrates, and fat (all simple substances) and makes muscle (a complex substance) is ANABOLISM.
ANDROGENIC is basically defined as pertaining to male sex characteristics.
ANDROGENIC/ANABOLIC
"Steroids " are actually called "Anabolic Androgenic Steroids." They accomplish "anabolism" through "anabolic" pathways, some being more androgenic (testosterone esters) and some less (winstrol , anavar , primobolan , ect...).
Most often, with reduced androgenic properties comes reduced anabolic properties, but it isnt always cut and dry. If anyone is interested I'll go into it another time, but lets head toward the insulin topic.

INSULIN: NonAndrogenic but Anabolic
Insulin is NOT a sex hormone. It is not related in any way to testosterone, or to estrogen for that matter. It is a product of the pancreas as opposed to testosterone which is a product of the HPTA, pituitary, gonadal, leydig, mishmash of interconnected glands...

WHY IS INSULIN ANABOLIC
So why is insulin anabolic then? Insulin is a partitioning agent. A "shuttle" if you will.
Picture insulin as a bus. Nutrients board the bus, and insulin pulls away and drops off the nutrients at the proper bus stop. That is basically what it does, and for all intents and purposes that is everything you need to know to understand how it works.
So by insulin shuttling these nutrient where they need to go, it enables anabolism and is therefor anabolic!

WHY NOT JUST TAKE CARBS TO RAISE INSULIN
Well, the amount of carbs you would need to take in to increase natural insulin levels to the degree a 10 i.u. shot would would be far more dangerous than using insuiln (and using insulin is NOT that hard OR dangerous).
Carbs at that level would eventually lead to diabetes and fat gains.
If insulin is a bus taking nutrients where they need to go, then exogenous insulin is a bullet train! It can hold far more nutrients than a normal naturally produced burst of insulin can, and it works quicker. Exogenous insulin is the most efficient way to accomplish glycogen overcompensation, period.

WHAT KIND DO I TAKE
Im a major supporter of fast acting insulin. The faster the better!
Currently he fastest acting insulin available is Humalog. It is active in 15 minutes, peaks in 1 hour and clears the system around 2 hours.
Next would be Humalin-R. It is active in about 30 minutes, peaks at the 2 hour mark, and clears the system at the 4 hour mark.
"Biophasics" are mixtures of fast and slow acting insulins, but are not the best choice in my opinion, due to an active dose being in you throughout the day. The reason you dont want that will be covered in the "HOW DO I USE IT" section.
There are also Humalin-L and Humalin-S, but they are long acting, and are no more use to me than the Biophasics. There are also porccine and bovine derived insulin, but I am against injecting animal derived substances.
WHEN (AND HOW MUCH) TO USE
Im going to assume we want to avoid any fat gains at all. Even bulking I dont like to gain any unneccesary fat, so Im going to disuss it from that stand point.
The ultra conservative time to use insulin is post-workout. Most people who are concerned about fat dont go over 10 i.u. as a total dose.
Some people us it on waking, before breakfast, since your body is in a basically carb depleted state. Its the kind of thng you have to try for yourslef, and if it works for you, do it. If you thnk youre gaining fat, stop. BUT! Dont start it at both times at once. Make sure you get your post workout dosage worked out and that you know it is not causing you any fat gains before you try pre-breakfast shots. That way you can take out all the guess work as to where any fat gains may come from.

DISPELLING A FEW MYTHS
There is a commoly held perception that you MUSt take in 10grams of carbs per I.U. of insulin, some radicals say 5 grams... well, theyre both wrong.
I got curious about this when I discovered that my insulin dependant diabetic friend didnt even keep track of what she ate post injection. She would feel hypoglycemic after a shot and take a Glucose Tablet.
A glucose tablet is only 5 grams of glucose (carbs)! So I started to think, "Hmmm, mabye everyone is off point on this?"
After conducting a few experiments on myself, I found that you can go considerably lower in carbs than people previously believed.
Now it doesnt make sense to go low in carbs, because that defies the purpose of using the insulin in the first place, but it does free us from having to use so much that there might be some "spill over" in carbs that cant be utilized. So it really makes us able to have more freedom in carbs choices and amounts.
The "risk" in insulin use is not as risky as people believe. Any person with an ounce of sense can see the warning signs of a problem coming, and remedy the situation.
HOW DO I DO IT
If you look at the drug store, you can get these little pen cases that hold a loaded insulin syringe. They are great for our need, you load up the syringe, and put it in the case, and throw it in your bag/purse/whatever. After the workout, head to a bathroom stall and inject it under the skin! Pull up a little skin from the abdomen or upper thigh (anywhere will do, but these are easiest) and inject. Do not shoot into a muscle. This rushes the dose and makes it harder to predict when it will spike.
So now you have 15 minutes to get some carbs (actually you have longer, since the initial hit of the dose is mild and easy to cope with, the spike is a little more harsh, but still nothing unbearable. If you use the carbs, you probobly wont notice the initial dose OR the spike.)
(this is based on Humalog at 10 i.u.)
I use a powder with a 20% simple/80% complex ratio (actually its 17% mono, 5% di, 7% tri, 5%tetra, and 66% penta-saccharides). I use about 60grams of carbs to the 10 i.u. of insulin.
This gives me a nice solid stream of carbs to overcompensate my depleted muscles, but not so many that I risk fat accumulation from the excess.
Now you are good to go till around 1 hour after the initial injection. At this 1 hour mark, the majority of the dose hits your system. Now is the time to eat a good balanced (AND FAT FREE!) meal. The fat-free emphasis will be explained in the POTENTIAL PROBLEMS section. This balance meal of carbs and protien and little to know fat can be anything from a protien drink and a crab drink, to a low fat MRP, to some lean chicken and rice... your choice.
After this meal, you dont need to pay anymore consideration to the insulin, it will gradually decrease and will be out of your system at the 2 hour mark.
Till you get accustmed to the use of insulin, start low and slow. Start at 2 i.u. then 5 i.u. then 7 i.u. then 10 i.u. That way you get a better understanding of any hypoglycemia you may encounter. Ive went as high as 35 i.u., just to try it, but at a certain point a higher dosage doesnt yield any better results (except fat!)
POTENTIAL PROBLEMS
Insulin is relativly safe. If you dont take in any carbs after using it, your body will give you PLENNTY of warning! Youll feel dizzy, tired, achey... hypoglycemic. What is happening is your body has no glycogen to use as fuel. Your muscles re depleted from working out, and often times youve tapped your liver for any remaining glycogen. The insulin does, searching for glycogen to use, takes the rest from your liver, and in the absence of carbs coming in to make more, it heads for the brain.
Your brain uses glucose as its primary fuel source (a little fat, too.) Thats why you get dizzy and light headed, the same with during a ketogenic diet... low glucose equals light headedness.
So if you forget about the carbs, youll get a warning from yuor body, and you can get your ass in gear and get some carbs in you.
If you get to the point where youre nauseated, just drink some sugary beverage and get some carbs in you quickly. Youre still a long long way from any major danger, but dont mess around.
"Fat Free" I said earlier about the 1 hour mark meal. During the 2 hours of the dosage duration, you should avoid fat like it is the plauge! Insulins partitioning properties are as effective at sending fat to the fat stores as it is carbs and protien to muscles!
So till the dose is clear of your system, NO FAT! (Thats another reason why I advocate the fastest acting insulin you can get.)

Well, I cant think of anything else off hand that needs to be said, but if I missed anything, just ask. I may have taken somethng for granted and figured everyone would know or assume on their own...

[D7M]

INSULIN : NonAndrogenic but Anabolic
Insulin is NOT a sex hormone. It is not related in any way to testosterone, or to estrogen for that matter. It is a product of the pancreas as opposed to testosterone which is a product of the HPTA, pituitary, gonadal, leydig, mishmash of interconnected glands...

Nope. Slin is related to test.

http://www.fertstert.org/article/S00...133-0/abstract

We suggest that ICV insulin acts either directly or indirectly to increase the LH responsiveness to GnRH. ICV insulin arrested the maturation of follicles leading to an increase in the number of small follicles. Peripheral androgens stimulated theca enlargement with cystic follicles. The combination of ICV insulin and peripheral androgens attenuated ovarian histologic changes and gonadotropin secretion. Thus, central hyperinsulinemia and peripheral hyperandrogenism may play a role in gonadotropin secretion as well as ovarian morphology.

For even more on this, see the profile on Slin on the main page:

Another unexpected aspect of insulin use is its ability to increase both LH (Leutenizing Hormone) and FSH (Follicle Stimulating Hormone), both of which in turn stimulate testosterone production. What I´m getting at here is that insulin stimulates gonadotropin secretion, meaning that it´s use may actually provide an anabolic effect through increasing your HPTA´s ability to stimulate the production of testosterone (Hypothalamic-Pituitary-Testicular-Axis)(11) This effect is often manifested as virilization (development of male sexual characteristics) in women. Insulin also increases the binding ability of anabolic steroids to the androgen receptors (14),which would clearly suggest strongly the possibility of a synergistic effect of insulin when combined with steroids. Most people also think that insulin has some anabolic synergy when combined with growth hormone, and certainly there is a lot of anecdotal evidence for this as well. In addition to anecdotal research, it´s important to note that Insulin is actually so anabolic that some researchers have speculated that Growth Hormone´s (GH) ability to stimulate Protein Synthesis may actually be,in part, due to GH´s ability to increase insulin sensitivity (12). Certainly the complex relationship between insulin, IGF, and GH is very synergistic and all interrelated to each other´s actions (13) (15) (16) (17). Using all three of them plus anabolic steroids and a fat-burner is the most potent muscle-building & fat -burning cycle possible.

So if you forget about the carbs, youll get a warning from yuor body, and you can get your ass in gear and get some carbs in you.
If you get to the point where youre nauseated, just drink some sugary beverage and get some carbs in you quickly. Youre still a long long way from any major danger, but dont mess around.
"Fat Free" I said earlier about the 1 hour mark meal. During the 2 hours of the dosage duration, you should avoid fat like it is the plauge! Insulins partitioning properties are as effective at sending fat to the fat stores as it is carbs and protien to muscles!
So till the dose is clear of your system, NO FAT! (Thats another reason why I advocate the fastest acting insulin you can get.)

Well, I cant think of anything else off hand that needs to be said, but if I missed anything, just ask. I may have taken somethng for granted and figured everyone would know or assume on their own...

^Actually he should've put that part in the "myths" section.

It's perfectly fine to have moderate amount of good fats while slin is active, without getting fat.

Nark, as I recall, is proponent of this approach.

[LBSOMEIRON]

^^^^

[mperk]

Thanks Haz - That's a big info dump!

[Userat204]

Excelent info. I'm prepairing to use soon and friends use now but was reading too much bad info.

[SlimmerMe]

...........

[vettewreck]

Good read Haz.

Slim, what did you originally say, then decide to edit only a bunch of dots? Im curious to know your opinion bc you are very knowledgeable and respect what you have to say.

[SlimmerMe]

Thank you Vettewreck!!! I really appreciate this coming from you! I had written that I hoped the new member, UseRat204, really did his research since Slin is for seasoned vets and also specifically asked if he had read your thread. And also said: that with one wrong move, slin is not a good thing....something like that.
and then I put a PS: I write this with good intentions since he might be a seasoned vet after all

so...I deleted because I did not want to come across as jumping in on some new guy who might know his stuff after all...leaving it up to you guys who know about slin to tell him to do his research and not me....

[Rock2011]

Wow! Well written and most of my questions and doubts are answered. I was just wondering if i can use 27 mm pin to shot the insulin and hgh.Thanks

[vettewreck]

Thank you Vettewreck!!! I really appreciate this coming from you! I had written that I hoped the new member, UseRat204, really did his research since Slin is for seasoned vets and also specifically asked if he had read your thread. And also said: that with one wrong move, slin is not a good thing....something like that.
and then I put a PS: I write this with good intentions since he might be a seasoned vet after all

so...I deleted because I did not want to come across as jumping in on some new guy who might know his stuff after all...leaving it up to you guys who know about slin to tell him to do his research and not me....

No prob! Ive read alot of what youve posted and you know your shit! Even though youre a girl jk!! But yeah youre 100% right, I hope hes done his research before jumping into slin. Its just hard to gauge somoenes knowledge with only a few posts so i try not to jump all over someone so soon. lol But I agree with you hands down.

Although I do dissagree with 1 thing posted by the original write up. IMO it spikes in 2 hours, not 1. I only say this bc EVERY time ive went hypo, it was directly on the 2 hour mark. Not a minute sooner. But thats just coming from me and my experience with slin.

[Userat204]

Slim. No need for an edit. I know you have good intentions. I have been around it's use quite a bit. I have done a lot of research and have not used it. Watching others use it and doing it yourself are obviously to different roads. I have read all the threads I can find. I think at this point I can go a lot farther on my own without using slin. I appreciate you looking out for other members and happy to see people around hear post there experiences for others to learn from but I also respect your opinion and will not be insulted by anyone asking questions about my experience.

[Narkissos]

Nope. Slin is related to test.

http://www.fertstert.org/article/S00...133-0/abstract



For even more on this, see the profile on Slin on the main page:








^Actually he should've put that part in the "myths" section.

It's perfectly fine to have moderate amount of good fats while slin is active, without getting fat.

Nark, as I recall, is proponent of this approach.

Yep.

[Misguided Angel]

what kind of results can be seen with taking Slin?
anyones experiences please chime in.

[prop402]

You pretty much have to chug dextrose and carbs for the duration its in your body. Not worth it IMO. It increases some muscle fullness but that fullness deflates like water weight 2 days after you stop using it. And it makes you a lazy shit while you are on it.

[fif]

You pretty much have to chug dextrose and carbs for the duration its in your body. Not worth it IMO. It increases some muscle fullness but that fullness deflates like water weight 2 days after you stop using it. And it makes you a lazy shit while you are on it.

you have no idea what you are talking about.

[Misguided Angel]

you have no idea what you are talking about.

what is your take on insulin use? what kind of gains can be seen?
any advice for a beginner

[jtuner77]

wtf?

[Far from massive]

Hello all,
I have used slin (Humalog) while blasting (Cyp/Deca ) and found it worked very well even at my 50+ age LOL. I used it PWO and found my ideal dosage to be about 15 IU's ( keep in mind I started at 5 IU's and slowly worked up to 15) what I would do is to take it immediatly after my workout along with a shake containing 80 gms of whey and 100 gms of maltodextrin ( Now Carbo-Gain ) in addition to 10g of Creatine and 10g of Glutamine. I would usally drink the shake and then pin in my car in the parking lot.

The only thing I would caution about is to make sure you take the insulin at least 3 hrs (despite the advertised life of 2 hrs) before sleeping twice I had to work out late because of work and took my slin about an hour and half to 2 hours before sleeping and both times I woke up in a cold sweat. The last time I came very close to checking out , I had come home and watched a movie with my girl and because of this I assume the slin was not metabolized even though it was a full 2 hrs till I went to sleep, when I awoke I was in such bad shape I could barely think and was litterally soaked in sweat. It took about 30 minutes of drinking glasses of sugar mixed with water too get the sugar recovered, if I do slin again I am going to invest in a glucogon pen in case this happens again, however any time I have ever felt a change while awake all it took was a little sugar water to immediatly reverse the symptoms so being mindful of sleep is the key.

PS... I did not lose it (like water weight) after coming off slin. It builds muscle it does not inflate them like water.... nor did I have too chug glucose and carbs the whole time I was on LOL.

[gixxerboy1]

Hello all,
I have used slin (Humalog) while blasting (Cyp/Deca ) and found it worked very well even at my 50+ age LOL. I used it PWO and found my ideal dosage to be about 15 IU's ( keep in mind I started at 5 IU's and slowly worked up to 15) what I would do is to take it immediatly after my workout along with a shake containing 80 gms of whey and 100 gms of maltodextrin ( Now Carbo-Gain ) in addition to 10g of Creatine and 10g of Glutamine. I would usally drink the shake and then pin in my car in the parking lot.

The only thing I would caution about is to make sure you take the insulin at least 3 hrs (despite the advertised life of 2 hrs) before sleeping twice I had to work out late because of work and took my slin about an hour and half to 2 hours before sleeping and both times I woke up in a cold sweat. The last time I came very close to checking out , I had come home and watched a movie with my girl and because of this I assume the slin was not metabolized even though it was a full 2 hrs till I went to sleep, when I awoke I was in such bad shape I could barely think and was litterally soaked in sweat. It took about 30 minutes of drinking glasses of sugar mixed with water too get the sugar recovered, if I do slin again I am going to invest in a glucogon pen in case this happens again, however any time I have ever felt a change while awake all it took was a little sugar water to immediatly reverse the symptoms so being mindful of sleep is the key.

PS... I did not lose it (like water weight) after coming off slin. It builds muscle it does not inflate them like water.... nor did I have too chug glucose and carbs the whole time I was on LOL.

a glucogon pen should only be used if you are unconscious

[Far from massive]

a glucogon pen should only be used if you are unconscious

Thanks for the reply, I agree the pen is not for use when injestion of sugar water starts to cause the condition to level out and loss of consiousness is not a threat.

However keep in mind that along with loss of consciousness, the other reasons for use of glucogen are seizure, convulsions, the inablitlity to eat or drink a sugar sweetenecd product or lack of response to repeated administration of regular soft drinks or fruit juice. In my case I was so far gone it took about a half hour of repeated administration of glasses of warm water filled 1/3 rd the way with sugar before I was able to reverse the condition and I was right on the verge of passing out, which being alone would have meant the end of any treatment and may well have meant death. So in this case I think the dangers of the pen would be far outweighed by the dangers of non-use.

[Far from massive]

I don't know ^^^^ seems like hathaway dunn is half a way dumb.....

[gixxerboy1]

Thanks for the reply, I agree the pen is not for use when injestion of sugar water starts to cause the condition to level out and loss of consiousness is not a threat.

However keep in mind that along with loss of consciousness, the other reasons for use of glucogen are seizure, convulsions, the inablitlity to eat or drink a sugar sweetenecd product or lack of response to repeated administration of regular soft drinks or fruit juice. In my case I was so far gone it took about a half hour of repeated administration of glasses of warm water filled 1/3 rd the way with sugar before I was able to reverse the condition and I was right on the verge of passing out, which being alone would have meant the end of any treatment and may well have meant death. So in this case I think the dangers of the pen would be far outweighed by the dangers of non-use.

there are better things then sugar water if you are concerned. I would use glucose tabs or if you are so bad that tabs arent chewable there is gel. I've been a diabetic for 25 years and have had my blood sugar as low as 27 and never needed a pen. Symptoms can take some time to disappear. Your blood glucose wont jump 30 mg is a couple minutes. Your sugar can be climbing and you are going to be fine but all symptoms didn't disappear. You have to be patient to. Many diabetics over adminaster sugar because they keep going until symptoms disappear. Then end up going hyper. The correct way is to administer the food/sugar then recheck bg levels in 15 minutes. Just cause you dont FEEL the sugar water working doesnt mean its not.

[dec11]

You pretty much have to chug dextrose and carbs for the duration its in your body. Not worth it IMO. It increases some muscle fullness but that fullness deflates like water weight 2 days after you stop using it. And it makes you a lazy shit while you are on it.

BS of massive proportions

[DanMan250]

I read on another board that one guy was using just 1iu insulin post workout, then eating only protein for dinner and waiting until breakfast the next morning to have his carbs. He said he was getting great results this way. I'd like to hear what some of the experienced members here have to say about this protocol.
Thanks.