Low quality muscle from insulin use?

[Cupid]

For some reason I cannot find the article/video that I read/saw this last night, I am still looking for it to post a link, but it was about Dorian Yates and Kevin Levrone talking about how they started using insulin towards their last year or 2 competing, and although it put size on them, it wasn't quality size and the muscles weren't hard/separated. They also said that if they went on competing, they wouldn't utilize insulin.

IDK about Kevin Levrone but Yates has always been pretty honest about his drugs and I don't think he would be lying about this. Simultaneously, I am not saying that what they are saying is true either.

Perhaps insulin was new at the time and they were not using it correctly and as a result they had this experience.

Can someone who is knowledgable about this shed some light on why they had such results and why their opinion is as such?

[GearHeaded]

Ronnie Coleman proves both Dorian and Kevin wrong




it doesn't' get any more large, but with density and separation then Ronnie Coleman. and he was a well known insulin user under the guidance of Chad Nichols .. Ronnie was losing shows consistently. then when he got his 'drug protocols' together with a legitimate Coach he beat Kevin Levron and everyone else for years to come.

if insulin did what your saying these guys said it does (I know what vid your talking about) then Ronnie would not have looked the way he looked and won 8 Olympias

[Cupid]

Ok this video here talks about it too:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ql_HiD_K_w


So we can just assume that Yates and Levrone were using it wrong and/or over carbing and spilling for their shows?

[GearHeaded]

if insulin and HGH caused physiques to look worse on stage, then it wouldn't be so popular with most all guys using it like they have over a span of 30+ years.
its used because it works. if it didn't work it would have fizzled out long ago. now its not only pros, but basic amateur guys, mens physique guys, women, etc.. that use HGH and insulin.
this would NOT be the case if these two compounds destroyed physiques.

these you tube guys like Tomn8er are spouting propaganda and BS to generate views and thats it.. they have no understanding of how these compounds actually biologically work. all they can do is make up 'drama' so they have something to make videos on.

[Cupid]

if insulin and HGH caused physiques to look worse on stage, then it wouldn't be so popular with most all guys using it like they have over a span of 30+ years.
its used because it works. if it didn't work it would have fizzled out long ago. now its not only pros, but basic amateur guys, mens physique guys, women, etc.. that use HGH and insulin.
this would NOT be the case if these two compounds destroyed physiques.

these you tube guys like Tomn8er are spouting propaganda and BS to generate views and thats it.. they have no understanding of how these compounds actually biologically work. all they can do is make up 'drama' so they have something to make videos on.

While I completely agree with you that youtubers like this are complete morons partaking in fear-mongering, the article he referenced stated exactly that.
Here is the link to the part about insulin:

The Lowdown on Drugs - Part 3 | Kevin Levrone, Shawn Ray & Dorian Yates Speak Out!

Again, I am not saying these guys are right, I just want an explanation on why they have such a negative outlook on this. I mean, this is Dorian Yates we are talking about.

What do you think?

[GearHeaded]

well first let me point out the Anecdotal evidence .
heres what a Mr Olypmia winning bodybuilder looked like before HGH and insulin were ever used

heres what a Mr Olympia looked like after HGH and insulin were most definitely used


big difference.

as for Sean Ray and Dorian . well they still competed in the bodybuilding age of HGH and insulin. we don't know how much they really used or not . BUT we know for sure that Arnold did not have access to these things. so thats why Arnold is a good example of a non hgh/insulin user

if Dorian and Sean competed today and were in their 20s today. they would be using HGH and insulin just like everyone else does (and again, they likely used it back in the day too).
why are they against it now . who knows.

[Windex]

While I completely agree with you that youtubers like this are complete morons partaking in fear-mongering, the article he referenced stated exactly that.
Here is the link to the part about insulin :

The Lowdown on Drugs - Part 3 | Kevin Levrone, Shawn Ray & Dorian Yates Speak Out!

Again, I am not saying these guys are right, I just want an explanation on why they have such a negative outlook on this. I mean, this is Dorian Yates we are talking about.

What do you think?

To answer your question Insulin came out in the last years of Yates competing. He talks about it with Joe Rogan - his confidence level talking about Insulin versus other bodybuilding topics he was discussing is a lot lower.

From the interview you can infer he didn't know a lot about it.

Same thing as when Jay Cutler was asked about SARMs and Peptides - they came after his time.

[SocioMachiavelli]

The one thing I would say.... is if you look at the majority of bodybuilders now compared to Yates, Levrone etc.... they look like shit. So either the training is different or the drug protocols are....

If one of those guys walked on stage today.... the rest might as well pack up their shit and go home.

[GearHeaded]

The one thing I would say.... is if you look at the majority of bodybuilders now compared to Yates, Levrone etc.... they look like shit. So either the training is different or the drug protocols are....

If one of those guys walked on stage today.... the rest might as well pack up their shit and go home.

you really think those guys are THAT much better then todays guys ?

I'm mean look.
Kevin Levron


Sean Rhoden



Phil vs Kevin

Kevin is not destroying Phil here

[Couchlockd]

No such thing as "low quality muscle" lol

Maybe low quality human being who can't muster through the pain to get that insane insertion, but any muscle tissue is quality in my book

From there, it's just how hard you try to accentuate it.

[GearHeaded]

No such thing as "low quality muscle" lol.

true
theres also no such thing as muscle built without insulin . wither that insulin comes naturally from your pancreas or exogenously from a bottle, you still need it to build muscle.
you don't have some sort of 'low quality' muscle built with insulin, and some sort of 'higher quality' muscle built without insulin, ALL muscle building requires insulin one way or the other

[SocioMachiavelli]

you really think those guys are THAT much better then todays guys ?

I'm mean look.
Kevin Levron


Sean Rhoden



Phil vs Kevin

Kevin is not destroying Phil here

I honestly think they are, compare dorians whole package to them.... you can't say the quality hasn't gone down since the 90's? So whats changed..... the lifts are the same so the only thing I can think of is the drug regimes. I mean look at the guts you get on some bodybuilders now. People are taking more drugs and the quality has reduced.

[GearHeaded]

what changed is back 30 years ago before cell phones and social media, the only pics you seen of the pro's were the most perfect pics ever shot of them. thats all that would make it to the public eye. and thats all you ever seen.
now a days with social media and cell phones, people can snap pics of these guys at any moment. and reveal the worse flaws.

the training, the eating, the drug protocols have all been virtually the same for the last 30 years.
example - I bring up the synergistic use of DNP and Insulin together in a post on here. a lot of guys on this forum think of that as some 'new' drug protocol thats cutting edge. when the fact is I first learned about that protocol years ago from reading a bobybuilding journal that was published in 1994
ain't nothing new under the sun for the most part.

if Kevin and Dorian were competing in todays age of social media, we would have plenty of shitty photos and distended gut pics of them too I'd imagine. especially Dorian. theres no way he got to 300 pounds without HGH, eating a ton, and having times of gut distension

[GearHeaded]

if all you were allowed to ever see of todays bodybuilders were professionally done pics (no social media snap shots),, like the 90s guys. then I'm guessing you'd say the quality is about equal . because pretty much everything other then that has been equal the last 30 years

[Cupid]

This has turned into a good discussion!

So then I'm gonna archive their points as incorrect use and or shitty prepping and then blaming the insulin /HGH.

The one thing I would say.... is if you look at the majority of bodybuilders now compared to Yates, Levrone etc.... they look like shit. So either the training is different or the drug protocols are....

If one of those guys walked on stage today.... the rest might as well pack up their shit and go home.

I'm sorry, have you looked at Kevin Levrone??? All props to him for his tremendous effort and achievements, but he DOES NOT LOOK GOOD. Alternatively, Shawn Rhoden (although not nearly as big as some of the others) boasts a physique that nobody has come close to in years. Even Phil Heath up until a couple years ago was the definition of perfection/symmetry with the most insane conditioning anyone has seen. It may not be the "look" most males want, but you cannot overlook the fact that the Mr O's of today are bigger, harder, more separated, leaner, and more conditioned today than any of the guys from Yates and prior. Those guys would not stand a chance today with their physiques of yesterday (again, hats off to all of them for their time, I'm not a hater, this is just fact).

Also, in regards to the bubble gut. After this last time that I did a mini-prep myself, I have come to conclusion that other than absolutley ridiculous doses being used by some BBs, the problem is really just the food, and like GearHeaded said, really shitty timed pictures.
Why??????
I have only recently started fucking with HGH/insulin, prior to that just AAS, never more than 1.5g per week and that was at the very end of my prep. I have no bubble gut, I have no distention, I could wear a size 28 pair of pants if my legs would fit lol, but the waist definitely can.
HOWEVER, 1 super cheat meal, and I look like the meme of the African child with hypothyroidism. It's creepy as fuck.
I look pregnant as fuck with a six pack. But even then, I can suck it in and completely mask it provided I am controlling my breathing - but that is if I am constantly thinking about it. One split second of a relax and boom, prego all the way - and I think this is exactly when photo journalists decide to take the pics - at the worst possible moment.
Oh and the belly usually goes away within 48 hours when I am done shitting it all out lol.
Funny thing is, when your super lean, this shows even more, because your waist is so small and holds no water/fat - so even the smallest bit of distention sticks out like a sore thumb.

Experiencing that multiple times when I was near the end of my cut led me to believe that the distended bellies on stage are some function of this exact scenario.
That and I think maybe these guys just take way too much fucking t-3/clen that they need to make up for it in even extra food - which further enhances the problem.

GearHeaded, what are your thoughts on this? Is it mostly a result of what I described, or is it more a function of ultra high doses of HGH/insulin?

OH, and can you link me your post on DNP /Insulin plzzz?

[GearHeaded]

OH, and can you link me your post on DNP/Insulin plzzz?

I've posted a few different ones over my time here. but just recently was brought up again, so heres my last post about it, #2
https://forums.steroid.com/supplemen...dnp-stuff.html

perhaps I should start an 'official' DNP and Insulin together thread

-wil respond to the rest of your post shortly

[SocioMachiavelli]

This has turned into a good discussion!

So then I'm gonna archive their points as incorrect use and or shitty prepping and then blaming the insulin /HGH.



I'm sorry, have you looked at Kevin Levrone??? All props to him for his tremendous effort and achievements, but he DOES NOT LOOK GOOD. Alternatively, Shawn Rhoden (although not nearly as big as some of the others) boasts a physique that nobody has come close to in years. Even Phil Heath up until a couple years ago was the definition of perfection/symmetry with the most insane conditioning anyone has seen. It may not be the "look" most males want, but you cannot overlook the fact that the Mr O's of today are bigger, harder, more separated, leaner, and more conditioned today than any of the guys from Yates and prior. Those guys would not stand a chance today with their physiques of yesterday (again, hats off to all of them for their time, I'm not a hater, this is just fact).

Also, in regards to the bubble gut. After this last time that I did a mini-prep myself, I have come to conclusion that other than absolutley ridiculous doses being used by some BBs, the problem is really just the food, and like GearHeaded said, really shitty timed pictures.
Why??????
I have only recently started fucking with HGH/insulin, prior to that just AAS, never more than 1.5g per week and that was at the very end of my prep. I have no bubble gut, I have no distention, I could wear a size 28 pair of pants if my legs would fit lol, but the waist definitely can.
HOWEVER, 1 super cheat meal, and I look like the meme of the African child with hypothyroidism. It's creepy as fuck.
I look pregnant as fuck with a six pack. But even then, I can suck it in and completely mask it provided I am controlling my breathing - but that is if I am constantly thinking about it. One split second of a relax and boom, prego all the way - and I think this is exactly when photo journalists decide to take the pics - at the worst possible moment.
Oh and the belly usually goes away within 48 hours when I am done shitting it all out lol.
Funny thing is, when your super lean, this shows even more, because your waist is so small and holds no water/fat - so even the smallest bit of distention sticks out like a sore thumb.

Experiencing that multiple times when I was near the end of my cut led me to believe that the distended bellies on stage are some function of this exact scenario.
That and I think maybe these guys just take way too much fucking t-3/clen that they need to make up for it in even extra food - which further enhances the problem.

GearHeaded, what are your thoughts on this? Is it mostly a result of what I described, or is it more a function of ultra high doses of HGH/insulin?

OH, and can you link me your post on DNP/Insulin plzzz?

I honestly stopped reading at yates wouldn't stand a chance and that this is a fact? That's an opinion and is a matter of subjectivity on what you think a bodybuilder should look like. For me? the 90's was the best era and how bodybuilders should look.

GH what are your thoughts on Yates or ronnie vs the bodybuilders of say the last ten years?

[GearHeaded]

GH what are your thoughts on Yates or ronnie vs the bodybuilders of say the last ten years?

me personally, I like Lee Haney. I think thats the best balance between size and aesthetics.

the thing about the 90s early 2000s era was it was just stacked with great bobybuilders. you had lots of great guys competing at the same time, and you had really conditioned guys but you still had mass monsters like Marcus Ruhl in there too. there was a lot to choose from.

I think today, there is just a lot FEWER bodybuilders. womens bikini and mens physique line ups are just stacked with people, but bodybuilding not so much

an NPC amateur national level show back then was so stacked with guys and talent, it was like an IFBB level top tier show today

[SocioMachiavelli]

me personally, I like Lee Haney. I think thats the best balance between size and aesthetics.

the thing about the 90s early 2000s era was it was just stacked with great bobybuilders. you had lots of great guys competing at the same time, and you had really conditioned guys but you still had mass monsters like Marcus Ruhl in there too. there was a lot to choose from.

I think today, there is just a lot FEWER bodybuilders. womens bikini and mens physique line ups are just stacked with people, but bodybuilding not so much

an NPC amateur national level show back then was so stacked with guys and talent, it was like an IFBB level top tier show today

Yeah.... Haney another one. That is an interesting point as well.... who has heath had to hold off...? he beat jay cutler that was on his way out and when someone close to his level came along this year... he lost.

Year in year out dorian had to bring it, otherwise he would of lost. I mean the guy tore his bicep a few months out and still won.... against those guys in the 90's. For me he's #1

[GearHeaded]

the competition back then was stacked.. you had Amatuer guys that would probably place in pro shows today.
heres what an amateur looked like back then

Dave Palumbo competing in the NPC as an amateur, never getting his pro card.

[Obs]

Attachment 174924

I cant stand the, "Bodybuilding has taken a wrong turn!" Bullshit.

We have classic physique for a gd reason!
The reason it pays so much to be Mr O in the open is because thats what people want to see! The freak animal mass monster.

Precisely why Kai green and roelly winklaar are the people picks!

If they want everything yo be judged like classic then okee dokee! Go to classic physique! It doesnt pay shit though cuz no one is watching.

[Obs]

Roelly smash!

[Obs]

Attachment 174925

What in the good God holy shit did yates, coleman, rhoden, anyone, ever have on this!?

Name the part, proportion...

This is as good as it gets and the farthest a human body has been pushed and kept proportion.

[GearHeaded]

Roelly smash!

if this is what happens when you take slin and growth,, sign me up!

[Obs]

D yates... Lol

[SocioMachiavelli]

D yates... Lol

Yates 6 - 0 Winklaar...

[SocioMachiavelli]

Not going to lie, he is impressive..... the detail in his back when he turns around compared to yates is not there for me... probably one of the reasons he didn't win.

[Obs]

Yates 6 - 0 Winklaar...

And muuuuuch hevier

[Obs]

Kai Green was passed up with the best back on the planet. They called it dispropotionate but I disagree.


I honestly think mr. O needs to be chosen by the public vote.

Kai has gave up on it for more lucrative prospects because he got tired of the politics. Kai is not only a monster, he is an artist at posing. His posing is masterful.

A big following left with kai btw. Much more than if phil heath would have left.

Classic is classic, open is open, and they should not be judged alike.

[Obs]

And no disrespect to yates. He is a master of his time and was a pioneer in the sport. In fact he is the reason the mass craze took hold. He was the first to get huuuuge

[Couchlockd]

I always like to point out that roelly winklaar is only 5'6" @300

[Obs]

I always like to point out that roelly winklaar is only 5'6" @300

5' 7"

[Couchlockd]

5' 7"

You trying to sneak an inch in on me OB?

[Obs]

You trying to sneak an inch in on me OB?

Watch my video I posted a bit ago.
At olympia they call him out at 5'7"

Attachment 174934

"Structurally unique" "comic book character"
"Magazine silhouette"

No! He is bigger, better stomach and abs, and more uniform than any of his competitors!

But they pick smooth belly shawn rhoden and fatass preggo phil heath over him!

Its political bullshit.

[Couchlockd]

D yates... Lol

2:16 mark

Look at his back right below his neck. It looks like a baby face sticking out like a conjoined twin.

[Obs]

2:16 mark

Look at his back right below his neck. It looks like a baby face sticking out like a conjoined twin.

Lol good eye

[fiddlesticks]

well first let me point out the Anecdotal evidence .
heres what a Mr Olypmia winning bodybuilder looked like before HGH and insulin were ever used

heres what a Mr Olympia looked like after HGH and insulin were most definitely used


big difference.

as for Sean Ray and Dorian . well they still competed in the bodybuilding age of HGH and insulin. we don't know how much they really used or not . BUT we know for sure that Arnold did not have access to these things. so thats why Arnold is a good example of a non hgh/insulin user

if Dorian and Sean competed today and were in their 20s today. they would be using HGH and insulin just like everyone else does (and again, they likely used it back in the day too).
why are they against it now . who knows.

the comparison pic is shocking, and thats WITH using steroids .