DNP stuff

[HoldMyBeer]

IDK where to post this, so supplements it is.
I've been taking 500mg dnp (crystal according to the supplier) for over a week now. I have not noticed any weight/fat loss. I am pretty sure its legit (although under dosed is arguable) because I have many of the symptoms of DNP. The symptoms are quite bearable at 500, and I am not pushing it in the least. I am banking on it being under dosed, and thinking about increasing to 750. I want to say it has only been a week, and I am being impatient, but everything I've read indicates that I should have seen significant changes by now (especially since a lot of people will only do a 7 day cycle of it).

Here is what's going on:
250-500 cal deficit
low carb diet, mostly fruit. How low can I go without going into keto and/or not feeling like complete shit? (I'm thinking 75-125g?)
100mg (mcg?) t3. I was on it for a week before starting the DNP, I thought about dropping it, but apparently DNP shuts down t4/t3 production, so I kept going with it. I plan on being on DNP 4-6 weeks. Is it bad to be on t3 for that long? (4-6 week +1)
I started doing 250mg test (cyp) every 3.5 days (trying to preserve as much muscle as possible), but Im thinking it may just be a waste and going back to 200. Thoughts?
I have clen I was thinking of adding in, but I also want to keep it simple. And the t3, clen, cycling, etc..... I dont want to convolute the process.

There is a lot of speculation when it comes to DNP, low carb vs high carb, there seems to be consensus. So I PMed a knowledgeable member, which I wont name because Im not sure if he would want me to, although you can probably figure out who anyways. He told me:
====when you run high carbs on DNP but WITHOUT insulin then all your doing is generating more heat in your body. the carbs are not doing anything beneficial for you at all, in fact it'll make things more
====uncomfortable as the carbs cannot be converted to any other energy source in the body other then heat.

====when your on DNP the beta cells of the pancreas shut down (due the uncoupling nature of DNP and hindering ATP) and your no longer able to produce much if any insulin . so the carbs your consuming
====are getting burned off as heat rather then being stored in muscle cells.
====so your probably hot all the time, plus your muscles are probably flat.

====if you going to run the DNP and not run insulin with it. then I recommend doing a low carb diet. quality protein, an array of veggies and healthy fats. you need the anti oxidants as well.

====try cutting your carbs way down. see if that helps you burn more fat and generate a bit less body heat (though this is unavoidable to a certain degree, but no point in throwing in extra carbs to 'fuel
====the fire' sort of speak)

I was not aware that insulin was even an option when it comes to DNP, and info on it is scarce. How would that work? Will it assist with fat loss? Is it more for preserving muscle? Should I just not consider it and keep it simple?

I know there are a lot of questions above, if you guys just want to ignore them and say, "Do this protocol" that works as well. DNP is a hell of a drug. I dont want to keep winging it trying to figure things out on my own, and I dont want to keep bothering people through PMs.

[GearHeaded]

DNP !!!! what are you crazy, you can't talk about that type of stuff publicly!!
kidding.


below is a brief post I did on another thread that will perhaps bring a tad bit of insight
----

its interesting , the two most dangerous drugs in bodybuilding go very well stacked together , DNP with Insulin

DNP makes you more insulin sensitive , BUT it also stops your body from producing insulin (I'll explain below), so its a catch 22 really. But if you take insulin with DNP then you get the best of both worlds. You get to burn body fat, utilize a shit ton of carbs without being able to put on more body fat, and build muscle .

If exogenous insulin and high amounts of carbs make you fat, then just add DNP. If DNP makes you flat and have high blood sugars cause your body is no longer able to produce insulin from it , then just add insulin. If your worried about losing muscle on a cut with DNP, just add insulin. With insulin present you'll still be able to uptake glucose, amino acids, and other nutrients into muscle cells (that anabolism) , its just that your cell will no longer be able to use that glucose as energy , but you still get the anabolic effect . Running DNP without insulin and you won''t get that effect.
so to a certain degree they are synergistic together.

DNP essentially turns you temporarily into a type 1 diabetic (not able to produce insulin from the pancreas). thats why adding insulin is beneficial when using it. I'll explain

Insulin is released by pancreatic beta cells in response to elevated ATP/ADP ratios . Briefly, when your blood sugar levels rise, your ATP/ADP levels become elevated, inhibiting ATP sensitive potassium ion channels (KATP), altering the membrane potential of the pancreatic cells and causing insulin release. The main thing here is that insulin will not be released unless ATP levels within the cells increase. DNP interferes with the protein complex ATP synthase, which allows for the synthesis of ATP from ADP . Since DNP interferes with a key step in ATP production, obviously ATP levels never elevate within any cell, including pancreatic beta cells. Hence , the feedback system through the KATP channels (at least in regards to insulin release), is disabled, and you effectively make yourself a diabetic while on DNP.

The primary action of insulin in the body is to drive glucose into muscle and liver cells (stored as glycogen) which is converted into ATP. Since DNP reduces ATP production significantly*, it again interferes with insulin production by preventing a significant amount of the glucose that is pushed into cells by insulin from ever being used as energy (at least by the cell). So , what is happening to all of this energy that is being expended through the electron transport chain to turn ADP and Pi into ATP? It’s thrown off as heat, and lots of it . thats the main side effect of DNP, as well as the cause of death if you over dose (over heating from the inside)

*DNP is an uncoupling agent. Stopping ATP is what its designed to do. Fat oxidation becomes the bodies source of energy, and why DNP burns body fat so well


so HoldMyBeer, you can see also why if you run high carb diet while on DNP yet without running insulin, that all those carbs do is get burned up as body heat

[Windex]

Not feeling anything means nothing, it has a half life of approx 36 hours and builds up toxicity in your body the longer it's in your system. There is a thread sticky in the Q&A about DNP with the general consensus it doesn't belong in bodybuilding. Tons of risk with little reward and a big rebound effect more often then not.

You can also cause permanent damage to your body at the cellular level because you are altering your metabolism and internal body temperature.

750mg is just a stupid dose and suicidal in my opinion. Your DNP is either fake and they've put something inside that mimics the side effects like a high dose thermogenic, or its extremely underdosed if you've been taking 500mg a day.

DNP was also banned in china a few months back and got immediately discontinued by several labs. If you made the purchase recently and it was manufactured after the ban then you could have gotten a mystery bathtub brew for all you know.

I took less of a dose than you and the ONLY reason I am alive today is because I admitted myself to the hospital about 6ish hours before going hyperthermic. Call it luck or intuition but by all accounts I should have died just by looking at my charts and vitals.

These were my vitals:

Heart Rate : 135bpm
Core Temperature : 104 (40 degrees celcius. For reference, 37.5-38.3 is hyperthermia and 40+ is often fatal).
Respiratory Rate was at 40 (The minimum for Tachypnea is >20, and I was at double).

I took DNP because I was in a dark place and felt I had nothing to lose after losing everything else in my life. I was selfish to not even consider others who cared for me.

Fat loss is easily accomplish with diet training and there's a million other safer compounds than using a pesticide.

[GearHeaded]

There is a thread sticky in the Q&A about DNP with the general consensus it doesn't belong in bodybuilding.

I find it interesting that its generally people on the 'outside' that do not make a living or have anything to do with bodybuilding, other then being an outside spectator, that seem to come up with these 'general consensus' of what does or does not belong in bodybuilding.

thats like me telling my neighbor what style of furniture he should or shouldn't have in his own house.. its his house, he should decide what belongs in it or not.

real bodybybuidling, ie, guys that live in and own the actual house, has had DNP use in it for decades.
the plumbers, accountants, contractors, and fast food workers, etc. really have no say in what 'belongs in bodybuilding' or not.

now, imo if your a spectator of bodybuilding (you follow it, but don't make a living or have a career in it in some way) then it makes sense to say , to your fellow 'spectator' family . dnp use does not belong in our house , ie, the house of the spectators. thats fine. sure, spectators and fans probably don't need to be using dnp. but they have no grounding to say what does or does not belong in someone elses house, or deciding the 'general consensus' for a whole sector of other people

just my opinon .
and fyi - I'm not directing that at Windex, I'm just using his statement to make my point

[GearHeaded]

its like the NFL fan who has never got off the couch or done a physical task once in his life , yet having the tenacity to say that performance enhancements don't belong in the NFL

get on the field with 300 pound beasts trying to smash you play after play, then tell me if you think PEDs belong there or not

try to get to 270 pounds, super big muscular and full, yet 4% body fat and super shredded at the same time ,, then tell me if DNP has a place in bodybuilding or not

[GearHeaded]

^^
sorry guys, thats all a rant that is really off topic

[GearHeaded]

the poison is dictated by the dose-- its the dose that makes something toxic

- cyanide is perfectly healthy as long as you don't go over the toxic dose of it (its toxic dose happens to be very low)
- water is deadly .. if you drink too much in one sitting your kidneys will shut down and you'll die (but its toxic dose is very high)

same with DNP . its only a 'poison' if the dose is a toxic dose.

and DNP is not special in any of these regards.. millions of people die every year from going beyond the toxic dose of alcohol , OTC meds, and pain pills. and yes, even water over dose happens

[charger69]

I compete, so can I say something negative about it? LOL

DNP is not for me, but people have the right to make their own decision. I have little knowledge of DNP, but the little I do have made me make a decision.
I do appreciate Windexes experiences. Maybe he didn’t follow protocol, maybe he got a bad batch, maybe his body just does not like it. I. Any event, what happened to him is real and I appreciate his input.
After his experience, I wouldn’t expect anything less than him trying to persuade others not to take it.
I am not taking sides here, however both sides are right.
I also do thank GH for providing information for those that want to take it, how to do it as safe as possible.

Just please, no one ask me where to get it. I will tell you to go to Home Depot and ask for poison. LOL!
It’s a joke guys- I hope that I didn’t piss anyone off .


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[GearHeaded]

I compete, so can I say something negative about it? LOL

of course.. my point was, would you like your neighbor who does not compete or have any standing in the bodybuilding industry tell you what you can and cannot take for bodybuilding competition though ?? probably not.

having an opinion is one thing. making general 'consensus' as to what belongs or does't belong in a sport your not involved in is a totally diff thing.
I'm all for opinions .
however I'm against restricting peoples freedom of choice with propaganda , scare tactics, or coming up with general consensus with a group of people (or a 'mob'). but its just social media mainly

[charger69]

of course.. my point was, would you like your neighbor who does not compete or have any standing in the bodybuilding industry tell you what you can and cannot take for bodybuilding competition though ?? probably not.

having an opinion is one thing. making general 'consensus' as to what belongs or does't belong in a sport your not involved in is a totally diff thing.
I'm all for opinions .
however I'm against restricting peoples freedom of choice with propaganda , scare tactics, or coming up with general consensus with a group of people (or a 'mob'). but its just social media mainly

I understood. I was just being the peanut gallery IOW- a smart ass


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[Obs]

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxygen_toxicity

[GearHeaded]

Just please, no one ask me where to get it. I will tell you to go to Home Depot and ask for poison. LOL!

a lot of guys think that DNP is synthetically created in a lab as a poison by some mad scientists. rather then realize its a naturally occurring organic compound.

[GearHeaded]

I'm pretty sure DNP can qualify as 'non gmo' , 'organic' and 'vegan' .. heck its gotta be healthy

[charger69]

I'm pretty sure DNP can qualify as 'non gmo' , 'organic' and 'vegan' .. heck its gotta be healthy

Oh Ok, now I want to try it. LOL


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[HoldMyBeer]

Okay so we all agree that I should keep cycling, add the clen , keep doing the t3, add insulin , and increase dose to 750?
Like I said before, I am pretty sure its legit, just underdosed. I can walk outside in 45 degree weather in shorts and a tshirt and it will feel like summer, lethargy, sweating, etc.
I would just get new stuff from another place, but ones out of stock, and another is too sketchy to deal w.

[HoldMyBeer]

DNP !!!! what are you crazy, you can't talk about that type of stuff publicly!!
kidding.


below is a brief post I did on another thread that will perhaps bring a tad bit of insight
----

its interesting , the two most dangerous drugs in bodybuilding go very well stacked together , DNP with Insulin

DNP makes you more insulin sensitive , BUT it also stops your body from producing insulin (I'll explain below), so its a catch 22 really. But if you take insulin with DNP then you get the best of both worlds. You get to burn body fat, utilize a shit ton of carbs without being able to put on more body fat, and build muscle .

If exogenous insulin and high amounts of carbs make you fat, then just add DNP. If DNP makes you flat and have high blood sugars cause your body is no longer able to produce insulin from it , then just add insulin. If your worried about losing muscle on a cut with DNP, just add insulin. With insulin present you'll still be able to uptake glucose, amino acids, and other nutrients into muscle cells (that anabolism) , its just that your cell will no longer be able to use that glucose as energy , but you still get the anabolic effect . Running DNP without insulin and you won''t get that effect.
so to a certain degree they are synergistic together.

DNP essentially turns you temporarily into a type 1 diabetic (not able to produce insulin from the pancreas). thats why adding insulin is beneficial when using it. I'll explain

Insulin is released by pancreatic beta cells in response to elevated ATP/ADP ratios . Briefly, when your blood sugar levels rise, your ATP/ADP levels become elevated, inhibiting ATP sensitive potassium ion channels (KATP), altering the membrane potential of the pancreatic cells and causing insulin release. The main thing here is that insulin will not be released unless ATP levels within the cells increase. DNP interferes with the protein complex ATP synthase, which allows for the synthesis of ATP from ADP . Since DNP interferes with a key step in ATP production, obviously ATP levels never elevate within any cell, including pancreatic beta cells. Hence , the feedback system through the KATP channels (at least in regards to insulin release), is disabled, and you effectively make yourself a diabetic while on DNP.

The primary action of insulin in the body is to drive glucose into muscle and liver cells (stored as glycogen) which is converted into ATP. Since DNP reduces ATP production significantly*, it again interferes with insulin production by preventing a significant amount of the glucose that is pushed into cells by insulin from ever being used as energy (at least by the cell). So , what is happening to all of this energy that is being expended through the electron transport chain to turn ADP and Pi into ATP? It’s thrown off as heat, and lots of it . thats the main side effect of DNP, as well as the cause of death if you over dose (over heating from the inside)

*DNP is an uncoupling agent. Stopping ATP is what its designed to do. Fat oxidation becomes the bodies source of energy, and why DNP burns body fat so well


so HoldMyBeer, you can see also why if you run high carb diet while on DNP yet without running insulin, that all those carbs do is get burned up as body heat

Whats the protocol for the insulin? Do I stay on a cal deficit?

[GearHeaded]

Whats the protocol for the insulin? Do I stay on a cal deficit?

while on DNP your natty production of insulin is shut down. the simplest protocol is to try and mimic what endogenous insulin production would be. thats best accomplished with something like a Lantus insulin. you could start out at like 10iu per day. you'll keep your diet low carb and stay in a calorie deficit.
you won't get the muscular fullness that you would with other insulin protocols. but this is a safe basic protocol at an 'insulin replacement dose' sort of speak.

another way is to use a regular acting insulin protocol with your meals. and yes you'd still stay in a calorie deficit. you could start out with 5iu with three of your meals per day.

theres really a lot of ways to do it . depends on many factors and your current physique and insulin sensitivity and a host of other things..

FIRST things first though. I'd go buy a 10$ glucose meter at Walmart and start tracking your blood sugars and get a baseline fasted glucose track going.
start with the glucose meter and go from there, rather then start any other protocols at the exact moment. you need a baseline in which to build a proper protocol around.


NOTE- I'm a advocate for low dose DNP use 'over time'. 200-300mg should get the job done over the period of your cutting phase, e.g, 12 weeks. I don't believe in mega dosing DNP for short term fat loss. so NO I don't recommend you raise the dose.
I'd rather see a well put together and thought out 12+ week long cutting protocol established with diet strategies ready to be implemented.

high dose DNP use is very un-neccessary and as you well know very very dangerous

[tarmyg]

The problem with DNP , or any compound for that matter, is not how toxic it is. It's that you are buying something where the variance for a tolerated dose compared to a lethal dose is very small and considering that you do not control the entire chain of procurement there is no way of knowing what the actual concentration is.

If you have to use DNP + Clen + T3 to cut to a reasonable amount of bodyfat I would argue there are other things to evaluate but that is my subjective opinion.

[GearHeaded]

The problem with DNP, or any compound for that matter, is not how toxic it is. It's that you are buying something where the variance for a tolerated dose compared to a lethal dose is very small and considering that you do not control the entire chain of procurement there is no way of knowing what the actual concentration is.

this is a valid point to consider.
but keep in mind, with any PRESCRIBED drug you take you don't control the entire chain of procurement either . heck you go to a local pharmacy to pick up your pain meds and you just have to hope that the pharmacist that fills your script isn't high himself and knows what he is doing and knows how to properly fill and label your script (and make sure its the right drug). you also have to trust the pharma companies who make this stuff (you can't control that either).
some years back people were dying from taking a doctor administered steroid injection to ease lower back pain. come to find out the drug was contaminated upon production with a virus that was getting into these peoples spinal chords.

thats just the risk of living on planet earth .

you are buying something where the variance for a tolerated dose compared to a lethal dose is very small

I've heard Dave Palumbo say this as well. that the effective dose and lethal dose of DNP are very close. I believe he is wrong. DNP works at ANY dose. its not like some drugs that require a certain amount to be effective. DNP at the smallest dose by its very nature will still cause cellular effects (it just may take longer to get the desired fat loss effects, but its still technically working at any dose).
200mg of DNP will burn fat. period. but it may take 10x that amount to kill you (or less, who knows). but I wouldn't say that that range is 'small' by any means. like 200mg is the effective dose and 210mg can kill you. the range is still rather large.

if you however follow these hi dose guys that go around recommending 1000mg of Dnp , then sure, that dose compared to the lethal dose is very close.
but these same idiots may go around recommending taking 15 Aspirin for a headache, rather then 1 or 2 which still gives effects.

If you have to use DNP + Clen + T3 to cut to a reasonable amount of bodyfat I would argue there are other things to evaluate but that is my subjective opinion.

why waste your time doing 2 hours of cardio per day , when you can simply take a pill and diet and accomplish the same thing.

that may sound like a 'bad thing' to say. but in reality this is a very reasonable thing to many many people. just because you may chose the cardio and have 2 hours to spare, and they may chose the pill instead , doesn't mean they are any less of a person or have some issues that you may not have. its just their personal and rational (in their own mind) decision.


^ now having said that, about average people.. in regards to bodybuilding, theres no way your going to be competitive on stage at a high level without taking the drugs (I'm not pointing out any specifics, I'm talking in general). so some may argue its at this level that these type of drugs should be considered

[Obs]

this is a valid point to consider.
but keep in mind, with any PRESCRIBED drug you take you don't control the entire chain of procurement either . heck you go to a local pharmacy to pick up your pain meds and you just have to hope that the pharmacist that fills your script isn't high himself and knows what he is doing and knows how to properly fill and label your script (and make sure its the right drug). you also have to trust the pharma companies who make this stuff (you can't control that either).
some years back people were dying from taking a doctor administered steroid injection to ease lower back pain. come to find out the drug was contaminated upon production with a virus that was getting into these peoples spinal chords.

thats just the risk of living on planet earth .



I've heard Dave Palumbo say this as well. that the effective dose and lethal dose of DNP are very close. I believe he is wrong. DNP works at ANY dose. its not like some drugs that require a certain amount to be effective. DNP at the smallest dose by its very nature will still cause cellular effects (it just may take longer to get the desired fat loss effects, but its still technically working at any dose).
200mg of DNP will burn fat. period. but it may take 10x that amount to kill you (or less, who knows). but I wouldn't say that that range is 'small' by any means. like 200mg is the effective dose and 210mg can kill you. the range is still rather large.

if you however follow these hi dose guys that go around recommending 1000mg of Dnp , then sure, that dose compared to the lethal dose is very close.
but these same idiots may go around recommending taking 15 Aspirin for a headache, rather then 1 or 2 which still gives effects.




why waste your time doing 2 hours of cardio per day , when you can simply take a pill and diet and accomplish the same thing.

that may sound like a 'bad thing' to say. but in reality this is a very reasonable thing to many many people. just because you may chose the cardio and have 2 hours to spare, and they may chose the pill instead , doesn't mean they are any less of a person or have some issues that you may not have. its just their personal and rational (in their own mind) decision.


^ now having said that, about average people.. in regards to bodybuilding, theres no way your going to be competitive on stage at a high level without taking the drugs (I'm not pointing out any specifics, I'm talking in general). so some may argue its at this level that these type of drugs should be considered

Cardio!?

Give me the DNP!

[Obs]

From another thread earlier today:

Gh has helped with this a lot too.
For instance many vets are trying insulin now that would have never consdered it before.

Most guys saying it is too dangerous only say so because thats what someone told them. Not long ago it was barely spoke of. I would say DNP falls into the same category, deadly, so we don't speak of it much.

In all seriousness the lack of subject matter on it is more dangerous than teaching responsible use.

It is always shot down with, "its all ugl so no one knows how its dosed and shouldn't be taken because it is poison".

Thats cute.
But people take it every day and dont kill themselves, ugl and all. People are going to take it regardless of how dangerous it is but rather than establish the safest protocols it just gets shot down and shit on.


GH can explain the synergistic effects of SLIN AND DNP .... Dear God! A guy takes that and he might as well go into a coma inside a microwave right!?

[HoldMyBeer]

Update:
I was getting frustrated. Muscles we're flat AF. Lifts were suffering tremendously. I felt crappy. Terrible night sweats (had to sleep on a towel). And I was noticing no sign of fat loss.
Good news, a few days ago there was overnight change, 6 lbs off the scale, and a lb / day ever since! Making great progress now, very happy w the way things are going. Feeling pretty good during the day, very slight night sweats. I'm very close to being able to see abs. All good stuff
Thanks for the help everyone

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[GearHeaded]

Update:
I was getting frustrated. Muscles we're flat AF. Lifts were suffering tremendously. I felt crappy. Terrible night sweats (had to sleep on a towel). And I was noticing no sign of fat loss.
Good news, a few days ago there was overnight change, 6 lbs off the scale, and a lb / day ever since! Making great progress now, very happy w the way things are going. Feeling pretty good during the day, very slight night sweats. I'm very close to being able to see abs. All good stuff
Thanks for the help everyone

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did you lower your carbs over the last week or so ?

[HoldMyBeer]

did you lower your carbs over the last week or so ?

Yes. About 125g carbs. All from fruits/veges
Unfortunately, I went completely off the rails yesterday and ate about 40+ pieces of sushi, 2 pb&j sandwiches, and entire large pizza, cookies, and a bunch of other crap. I just hope I didn't do too much damage to the progress I was making. Not happy about it at all.

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[HoldMyBeer]

Yeah, did some damage. Up 5 lbs. Probably water retention from all the carbs/sodium. It'll be gone in a few days, probably even be down a lb by then. Still time and progress lost. Feelsbadman

And yes I realize body weight loss is not a direct indication of fat loss. But that and visuals are the only metric I have to go by atm

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[sleepstalker]

I have a question about DNP , This maybe a stupid question but I don't think anyone has asked the obvious yet. Now...as we all know DNP is a fertilizer pr pesticide chemical. What IF we were to use it for that purpose. Like add it to the soil as a plant. Then id if one were to HYPOTHETICALLY eat that plant. How much DNP would one we be getting HYPOTHETICALLY? If any? mcgs, mgs? I told you it as a dumb question. Are there any studies on this? I am not suggesting for anyone to use or take dnp or such. I am just stating it is a pesticide chemical that is not to be ingested by humans as its a poison but made for gardening and plants. I am curious directly how it affects the plants and then how those plants will affect us if we eat the plants?

[fiddlesticks]

insulin and dnp are extremely synergistic and potentiate eachother very well. the idea is the DNP truncates part of the insulin molecule which turns it into "insulin-des".

from the very little information i've seen about this it's supposed to be 12-25x as potent, so with that being said taking tiny amounts (5mg) of dnp would in theory make you much much more responsive to insulin. interesting

[HoldMyBeer]

Good morning everyone.
Just wanted to give an update. I upped the dose to 750 a while back and started seeing progress. Down 15lbs in about 20ish days.
The reason I wanted to post an update is because I figured out why I thought it was underdosed.
It's because it's crystal. 250mg crystal = 187mg (about, forget the exact number) powder. So when I thought I was on 500, I was actually taking 374. And at 750 it's really 561mg.
The hives and itchyness is out of control though. I'm downing antihistamines very frequently

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