Shoulder Questions...

**Brazensol** · 06-10-2013, 08:02 PM

Lately (last two weeks or so) after doing chest work or shoulder work, both my shoulders will get very tender at the anterior deltoid (if my anatomy is correct). Wished I had a chart so I could circle the exact spot. Equally tender on both sides so my first thought is it's not an injury type pain but it sure gets sore to the touch. I don't remember ever getting this sore this fast (within an hour or so and gets progressively worse for about 12-24 hours before getting better. Is this just normal soreness that goes with lifting (I am over 50) or is something worse going on?

Today was moderate weight/high reps for chest to include flat bench press (185 x 15 for 3 sets), flat bench flyes (40 x 15 for 3 sets), db incline (30 degrees) (50 x 15 for 3 sets). Also did dips (bodyweight), reverse flys (25 x 15/3 sets), skullcrushers (80 x 15 for 3 sets and db lateral raises (20 x 15/3sets). Nothing extreme but still got the soreness.

I tried dmso cream with limited relief...

**SidVicious77** · 06-10-2013, 09:25 PM

Have you had issues with sub-acromional impingement before? Does this only happen with pressing-type movements? And do you do enough movements to retract your scapulae?

**kelkel** · 06-10-2013, 09:33 PM

This ^^^ and remember if you continue to inflame it you will have more serious problem. Maybe take some time off, try some MSM Powder or TB-500. Short term NSAID's as well. Deep seeded inflammation is insidious and hard to eliminate so be careful and don't make it worse. Don't forget the old stand-by, Ice after your workout.

If you continue working out try a pre-exhaust type method where you do your isolation work first followed by your pressing. It will force you to use lighter weight and may succeed in warming you up a bit more as well. Pre-exhaust works even better if done in superset fashion. Example: flat flyes followed immediately by your pressing movement of choice. Naturally, warm up on both first....

**Java Man** · 06-11-2013, 12:17 AM

I'm getting back to the physical point where I'm lifting like I did at 25 again but I'm not 25! My left shoulder is reminding me.of that lately so I'm on the same boat, OP.

Good advice here.

**Brazensol** · 06-11-2013, 09:55 AM

Originally Posted by SidVicious77

Have you had issues with sub-acromional impingement before? Does this only happen with pressing-type movements? And do you do enough movements to retract your scapulae?

Ok. After reading up on sub-acromional impingement this sounds very much like it might be the problem. Guess I'll make an appointment with the doc who will probably only want to inject some steroids into the problem area. Maybe he'll get me into physical therapy. Beginning to wonder if I', just getting to old to lift any more? If so then it sucks because I really do enjoy it.

**Brazensol** · 06-11-2013, 10:00 AM

Originally Posted by kelkel

This ^^^ and remember if you continue to inflame it you will have more serious problem. Maybe take some time off, try some MSM Powder or TB-500. Short term NSAID's as well. Deep seeded inflammation is insidious and hard to eliminate so be careful and don't make it worse. Don't forget the old stand-by, Ice after your workout.

If you continue working out try a pre-exhaust type method where you do your isolation work first followed by your pressing. It will force you to use lighter weight and may succeed in warming you up a bit more as well. Pre-exhaust works even better if done in superset fashion. Example: flat flyes followed immediately by your pressing movement of choice. Naturally, warm up on both first....

I've been taking 5 grams of MSM for about 5 weeks now based on Times Romans suggestion. Same for TB-500. I just took by last 5mgs today for a tendonosis issue. It has helped considerbly but did not completely heal it. Probably due to my pushing it too hard in the gym. I guess I could take some time off for upper body work and concentrate on my chicken legs and abs. Also try another round of TB-500 at 10 mgs/week for six-8 weeks. I will give your pre-exhaust idea a try with supersets and see how that feels.

**Brazensol** · 06-11-2013, 10:04 AM

Originally Posted by Java Man

I'm getting back to the physical point where I'm lifting like I did at 25 again but I'm not 25! My left shoulder is reminding me.of that lately so I'm on the same boat, OP.

Good advice here.

I've always had problems throwing (football, baseball, rocks, etc) at anything over ~75% effort. I hear ya about not being 25 anymore! Funny thing is I do better with military presses behind the head (supposed to be bad mechanics on that one) vs. in front. When I do them to the front I get a pinched nerve in my left shoulder that I don't get when done behind the head. Same for incline dumbbell presses. Anything over 30 degree incline and I get that pinched nerve.

**MajorPectorial** · 06-11-2013, 07:29 PM

Simply doing some full rotations with arms in both directions coupled with ongoing msm. I'm thinking now of dosing 5gs am. N 5gs before bed n see how that works out. Cheap enough. I'm yet to try tb500 but I've heard good things.

**SidVicious77** · 06-11-2013, 08:59 PM

I wouldnt jump into cortizone shots immediately! They'd just melt muscle and add fat and possibly contribute to arthritis in the long term. It sounds like its still latent if it only sets in after your pressing workouts and not at other times.
By all means, see a doc. But i think just taking a break from pressing for a couple of weeks and doing rehab exercises like external shoulder rotations, cable face pulls, shoulder dislocates and the cuban press should balance the muscle tensions out and fix this... plus the msm and tb500(no personal experience with that one) to bring the inflammation down.
That worked like magic for me - I have a type2 downward sloping acromion so genetically prone to impingement , even from just doing pushups.
Bonus - balancing out my shoulder strength also added 20 lbs to my bench within a couple of weeks.
Also hopefully youre doing enough pulling movements to balance things out. Probably moving forward you should add in more of those. And always consciously retract your scapulae when setting up for any sort of pressing in future...

**kelkel** · 06-11-2013, 09:11 PM

Originally Posted by Brazensol

Ok. After reading up on sub-acromional impingement this sounds very much like it might be the problem. Guess I'll make an appointment with the doc who will probably only want to inject some steroids into the problem area. Maybe he'll get me into physical therapy. Beginning to wonder if I', just getting to old to lift any more? If so then it sucks because I really do enjoy it.

Look into Prolotherapy for your shoulder. It helped speed up my recovery quite effectively. Don't give up because of your age. Hell, I'm older than most here and still try my hardest to kill it. Keep plugging away at it. It's a great life-style!

**Brazensol** · 06-11-2013, 10:16 PM

What do you guys mean when you say 'retract the scapula'? I've seen it mentioned several times and am not sure what it means.

**RipOwens** · 06-11-2013, 10:20 PM

Originally Posted by Brazensol

What do you guys mean when you say 'retract the scapula'? I've seen it mentioned several times and am not sure what it means.

Meaning squeeze your shoulder blades together. Like you're trying to have them touch.

**MakeEveryRepCount** · 06-12-2013, 12:46 AM

My shoulders ache just looking at that routine. Could've done it 2 or 3 years ago, but definitely no more.

Are you doing any rear delt work? Balancing the shoulder is going to help a lot (rear delt flies). I'd do that and make some small changes to your routine.

First, when you do your 'flat' bench, slide a 45lb plate under the base of bench giving it a 5-10 degree DECLINE. This will shift a ton of the stress off your shoulders. You can also do this for the flies if you like.
Second, tuck your elbows when you bench. They don't have to touch your sides, but bringing them in a bit towards your body will close the shoulder joint and help prevent the impingement.
Third, on the incline, do the pressing movement with the dumbells at a 45 degree angle (pinkies more toward your toes). Also closes the shoulder.

The dips and lateral raises might be causing some problems but they're more difficult to manipulate. Hopefully those 3 changes will be enough that you can get away with doing those two exercises without any problems (if you are you'll have to drop or substitute them). Skullcrushers shouldn't be causing any of the issues (or you're doing some variation I've never heard of, haha).

**SidVicious77** · 06-12-2013, 01:31 AM

Originally Posted by RipOwens

Meaning squeeze your shoulder blades together. Like you're trying to have them touch.

Exactly. Back and down and lock them under you against the bench.

**Brazensol** · 06-12-2013, 07:36 AM

Originally Posted by MakeEveryRepCount

My shoulders ache just looking at that routine. Could've done it 2 or 3 years ago, but definitely no more.

Are you doing any rear delt work? Balancing the shoulder is going to help a lot (rear delt flies). I'd do that and make some small changes to your routine.

First, when you do your 'flat' bench, slide a 45lb plate under the base of bench giving it a 5-10 degree DECLINE. This will shift a ton of the stress off your shoulders. You can also do this for the flies if you like.
Second, tuck your elbows when you bench. They don't have to touch your sides, but bringing them in a bit towards your body will close the shoulder joint and help prevent the impingement.
Third, on the incline, do the pressing movement with the dumbells at a 45 degree angle (pinkies more toward your toes). Also closes the shoulder.

The dips and lateral raises might be causing some problems but they're more difficult to manipulate. Hopefully those 3 changes will be enough that you can get away with doing those two exercises without any problems (if you are you'll have to drop or substitute them). Skullcrushers shouldn't be causing any of the issues (or you're doing some variation I've never heard of, haha).

I do 3 sets of rear db delt raises so that should help. Will give the plate under the bench a try and see how it feels. Also will do it on the flyes. I love doing db laterals but I can give them up for awhile. They also irritate the tendonosis in my right forearm so maybe I can kill two birds with one stone. Is there something else I can substitute in place of the db laterals?

**Brazensol** · 06-12-2013, 07:37 AM

Originally Posted by SidVicious77

Exactly. Back and down and lock them under you against the bench.

Is this through the entire movement and/or at the top or bottom?

**Brazensol** · 06-12-2013, 07:40 AM

It's been almost two days now since the last workout and my shoulders feel much better. When you guys say balance the pressing moves with pulling moves are you referring to things like rows and lat pulldowns? Are there any isolation pulling style exercises just for the delts?

**RipOwens** · 06-12-2013, 09:03 AM

Originally Posted by Brazensol

It's been almost two days now since the last workout and my shoulders feel much better. When you guys say balance the pressing moves with pulling moves are you referring to things like rows and lat pulldowns? Are there any isolation pulling style exercises just for the delts?

Exactly, rows and pulldowns are both 'pull' exercises. Your moving the weight towards you. Maybe debatable when it comes to shoulders, but I consider lateral raises (especially cable) to be 'pull' as well as rear flys and face pulls.

**SidVicious77** · 06-12-2013, 10:46 AM

Originally Posted by Brazensol

Is this through the entire movement and/or at the top or bottom?

Throughout...

**SidVicious77** · 06-12-2013, 11:11 AM

I mentioned the rehab exercises whuch work best for me in a previous post but basically anything that pulls your shoulder blades back and down will help, as will good form. Give them enough time to rest and let the inflammation go down before pressing again.

**Brazensol** · 06-12-2013, 03:42 PM

Thanks for all the input guys. I just found out today that we will be moving across the country in late July or early August. I'm hoping all the advice I'm getting here will keep me going and releatively healthy until then (I jsut don't want to stop now that the results are starting to come in). At that point I will be able (will have to actually) take some time completely away from lifting and will run TB-500 @ 10mgs/week for 8 weeks. I will probably be out of the gym for at least six weeks so it should give the TB-500 a chance to work its magic. Might step up the MSM to 7.5 - 10 grams/day starting, well, today. Does anyone think this would be any significant advantage over the 5 grams/day that I'm taking now? I've only been on it about 5 weeks or so and do feel it is helping. Anything else out there to stack with the TB-500 and MSM? I'm game for just about anything that will help the healing process.

**MakeEveryRepCount** · 06-12-2013, 04:28 PM

Originally Posted by Brazensol

Is there something else I can substitute in place of the db laterals?

Kind of struggling with this one myself actually. Every time I try to reincorporate the laterals into my routine I start having shoulder issues again. Upright rows with a dumbbell might help. Nevertheless, that muscle seems to be very difficult to hit without externally rotating the shoulder joint which is what causes the problem.

Maybe some other guys have better experience and can give you a more thorough recommendation.

Good luck. Keep us posted!

MERC

**SidVicious77** · 06-12-2013, 08:33 PM

Db uprights or wide grip upright rows will also hit the medial delts. But only after fixing the inflammation and the impingement, when you should be able to do the lateral raises themselves...
These are actually INTERNAL rotation exercises, as in your shoulders are internally rotated when you do them. Im hazarding a guess that youre excessively internally rotated as it is... quick test, if you stand naturally your thumbs should line up with the seams of your trousers. If theyre out in front and your palms face backwards, youre internally rotated due to tight pecs and weak stretched external rotators. Fix that and your shoulders will thank you.
Best of luck.

**mr.slippyfist69** · 06-19-2013, 07:06 AM

35, AA baseball player and the pain in my throwing shoulder is bad enough right now to keep me from playing next season...may just be the end of any competitive baseball for me. I am going to run TB-500 like roman and see what happens by this fall. Also, anyone here try A.R.T. with an chiropractor yet? It has helped me some but stretching, rest, ice, heat, and my girls able hands have become my best friends in all this.

**yosimitesam** · 06-19-2013, 10:45 AM

Sorry about your shoulder, man. I've had acromioplasty on my right shoulder, and broke my left scapula in a bicycle wreck, leaving my shoulders ever so gloriously wonderful for powerlifting....

Yes, cortisone, NSAIDS, ice, compression, massage and rest help, but I still have to be extremely careful. I now spend more time stretching and pre-habing than it takes me to do my bench press sets. However, my pre-workout routine has helped me more than the aforementioned.

A couple of things I started doing in addition to stretching was invest in a few items that have greatly helped. A shoulder horn will allow you to strengthen your external rotators and balance it with your internal ones. Most of us are very weak in our rear delts and upper back, and this helps to balance the strength, where you're not using your front delts to "shoulder" the entire load.

Indian Clubs are awesome. A bit awkward at first, but they really stretch your shoulders while also strengthening them. They look like elongated bowling pins, and come in various weight sizes. Start with a light weight (2 lb clubs) and learn the routine. Do them before all your upper body workouts. They work well for anything from impingement to just plain sore shoulders.

This one is kind of expensive, but is awesome. A bandbell or earthquake bar. I use this after my bench and incline sets to a.) further fatigue what's already tired but most importantly b.) provide kinetic energy to the connective tissues in my shoulders and elbows, which strengthens the surrounding support muscles. Hard as hell, but it has been very effective in helping my shoulder pain.

Last thing is you could try a product made by Mark Bell, and Titan makes one, too. Mark calls his the Slingshot, and Titan's is called the Ram. They support your elbows, but decelerate the descending weight at the bottom of the lift, alleviating the most intense pressure your shoulders endure when your elbows dip below your chest. Arching your back will also help shorten the distance from the bar to your chest, as will moving your arms a little more inside the bar and not flaring your elbows.

Good luck,

**Brazensol** · 06-19-2013, 11:39 AM

Originally Posted by mr.slippyfist69

35, AA baseball player and the pain in my throwing shoulder is bad enough right now to keep me from playing next season...may just be the end of any competitive baseball for me. I am going to run TB-500 like roman and see what happens by this fall. Also, anyone here try A.R.T. with an chiropractor yet? It has helped me some but stretching, rest, ice, heat, and my girls able hands have become my best friends in all this.

I tried ART for my tendonosis in my right forearm. It didn't do anything for me but for many people it helps a lot. My understanding for ART to work is there has to be scar tissue causing your issues and ART will break that scar tissue up. My chiropractor was at least honest with me and after two or three sessions with no improvement he recommend to stop trying it and wasting money. He suggested getting an MRI to try and see what was going on with my forearm. I haven't done one yet and probably won't until after we move late this summer. I have done two cycles of TB-500. The first one helped a little so I tried another cycle at higher doses and, though it didn't completely get rid of it, it helped enough so I can still workout. Sometimes that's all you can ask for. I am going to run a third cycle when we move since I will have to stop all weight training and see if I can get better or even complete healing on it.

**yosimitesam** · 06-19-2013, 11:56 AM

Has anyone here tried prolotherapy? I thought about it when my shoulders were really bad, but decided against it. It's pretty expensive, and there wasn't much supportive evidence at the time. Not sure if someone has given it a go and had good results with it.

**Brazensol** · 06-19-2013, 02:12 PM

I've heard good things about it but it is rather expensive...

**yosimitesam** · 06-19-2013, 02:38 PM

That's what I've pretty much come to the conclusion. Of course, if it works, then it may be worth looking into. It's just strange to see a procedure that introduces inflammation instead of working to reduce it.

**MajorPectorial** · 06-19-2013, 06:27 PM

Love dumbbell rows. One at a time. Much easier on the shoulder. Find light read felt cable flies too. Get a great stretch with taking the stretch straight armed(pretty much) from across my body flexing that shoulder blade right back. The machine in our gym has some perfectly placed middle chin up section I lock my body using my other arm. So my exercise arm comes from opp armpit area out n around. If ur short (I'm 6'3"). Use a box. My w/o partner does. Much better for him. But his rear Delta are a lot shallower compared to mine.

**Brazensol** · 06-19-2013, 08:31 PM

Originally Posted by MajorPectorial

Love dumbbell rows. One at a time. Much easier on the shoulder. Find light read felt cable flies too. Get a great stretch with taking the stretch straight armed(pretty much) from across my body flexing that shoulder blade right back. The machine in our gym has some perfectly placed middle chin up section I lock my body using my other arm. So my exercise arm comes from opp armpit area out n around. If ur short (I'm 6'3"). Use a box. My w/o partner does. Much better for him. But his rear Delta are a lot shallower compared to mine.

Dumbbell rows are one of my favorites too. Unfortunately my right forearm tendonosis really interferes with them now. Pulling the dumbbel up those last few inches really puts a lot of stress on it. I used to love T-bar rows and I could always feel those the next day right where you're supposed to feel them. Current gym I'm using does not have a T-bar station but I'm hoping when I get to my new gym it will (were moving soon) and I'll be able to perform them without aggravating the forearm.

**Squats33** · 07-09-2013, 09:30 AM

Has anyone heard of or experienced using HGH to heal partial tears in the shoulder? Will it build collagen?

I previously had cuff surgery, still enjoy playing ball for fun but absolutely cannot throw without pain, i know its torn in some fashion and refuse to go under the knife.

**yosimitesam** · 07-09-2013, 10:06 AM

Originally Posted by Squats33

Has anyone heard of or experienced using HGH to heal partial tears in the shoulder? Will it build collagen?

I previously had cuff surgery, still enjoy playing ball for fun but absolutely cannot throw without pain, i know its torn in some fashion and refuse to go under the knife.

Sometimes the knife will end up helping you in the long run. I had shoulder surgery a while back, and it was the best thing I could have done for my shoulder. The crappy part is it hurt like a mother f&$%er for a while, but the rehab helped it right along.

It really depends on how big the tear(s) are. Micro tears can heal with PT, but larger tears are sometimes required to be fixed surgically. As far as HGH, I'm sure some of the people with personal experience will chime in, so maybe there will be a solution. The only problem is it could be as expensive as getting surgery, and you have no idea whether the stuff you're getting if legitimate. Lots of HGH being sold is fake.

One thing you could try that quick, has some good reports of working and is perfectly legal is TB500. You can get it from ar-r which you can click on the advertisement above the page taking you directly to their site. They are completely legit and sell high quality products. They offer everything you'll need, and the shots are easy and painless.

I wish you luck, as I know how crummy shoulder injuries are. Just make sure you don't wreck your shoulder further, and at least get it checked out. An MRI can usually offer evidence as to how big the tear is.

Prolotherapy is also sometimes you can look into. The science behind that is to cause inflammation to the injured site to force healing into the area. Collagen will then form and begin doing its work. You can also take prostaglandin supplements designed to speed recovery. If you do that, you'll need to stay away from NSAIDs which work to destroy prostaglandins, so keep that in mind. Prolotherapy is also expensive and can be a bit painful, but many people, including some guys on the forum, seem to benefit from it greatly.

Anyway, I hope that helps, and feel better.

**yosimitesam** · 07-09-2013, 10:11 AM

Originally Posted by yosimitesam

Sometimes the knife will end up helping you in the long run. I had shoulder surgery a while back, and it was the best thing I could have done for my shoulder. The crappy part is it hurt like a mother f&$%er for a while, but the rehab helped it right along.

It really depends on how big the tear(s) are. Micro tears can heal with PT, but larger tears are sometimes required to be fixed surgically. As far as HGH, I'm sure some of the people with personal experience will chime in, so maybe there will be a solution. The only problem is it could be as expensive as getting surgery, and you have no idea whether the stuff you're getting if legitimate. Lots of HGH being sold is fake.

One thing you could try that quick, has some good reports of working and is perfectly legal is TB500. You can get it from ar-r which you can click on the advertisement above the page taking you directly to their site. They are completely legit and sell high quality products. They offer everything you'll need, and the shots are easy and painless.

I wish you luck, as I know how crummy shoulder injuries are. Just make sure you don't wreck your shoulder further, and at least get it checked out. An MRI can usually offer evidence as to how big the tear is.

Prolotherapy is also sometimes you can look into. The science behind that is to cause inflammation to the injured site to force healing into the area. Collagen will then form and begin doing its work. You can also take prostaglandin supplements designed to speed recovery. If you do that, you'll need to stay away from NSAIDs which work to destroy prostaglandins, so keep that in mind. Prolotherapy is also expensive and can be a bit painful, but many people, including some guys on the forum, seem to benefit from it greatly.

Anyway, I hope that helps, and feel better.

PS: I should have noted your previous surgery, and am sorry I went on about the post op experience, as you know all about it....It's not even Monday, and I still can't read.....Oh well.

The shoulder is going to hurt like hell for a while, but I don't know how long ago your surgery was. One thing I did that helped speed my recovery is I used Deca after my rehab was finished. I still eased into using my shoulder, but that helped a lot. It loaded water into the area, protecting my A/C joint, which was exposed sine the doctor also removed my bursa. He even gave me his blessing when I brought it up. He couldn't professionally encourage it, but when asked if using it would help, he smiled and said "probably". He just wanted me to wait until my sutures had time to heal, so that's what I did.

**Squats33** · 07-09-2013, 10:21 AM

Well my shoulder rehab consisted of daily stretching and icing and massage and PT everyday for 4-5 months non stop until I was ready for a throwing program. Then it was just typical heat, stretch, bands, throwing, ice. At the 11 month mark, they said I tore scar tissue, was the first time i felt that feeling, problem was, it felt the exact same as when I tore the cuff originally... So im unsure if it was really scar tissue or the cuff again, Im sure tearing scar tissue, if bad enough, would also effect the cuff as well, im sure i have tons of scar tissue in there...

This was in april 2010 surgery to march 2011 when i supposedly tore scar tissue

**yosimitesam** · 07-09-2013, 11:21 AM

Originally Posted by Squats33

Well my shoulder rehab consisted of daily stretching and icing and massage and PT everyday for 4-5 months non stop until I was ready for a throwing program. Then it was just typical heat, stretch, bands, throwing, ice. At the 11 month mark, they said I tore scar tissue, was the first time i felt that feeling, problem was, it felt the exact same as when I tore the cuff originally... So im unsure if it was really scar tissue or the cuff again, Im sure tearing scar tissue, if bad enough, would also effect the cuff as well, im sure i have tons of scar tissue in there...

This was in april 2010 surgery to march 2011 when i supposedly tore scar tissue

Man, that sucks. I'm sorry for you. How frustrating. Hopefully it's just scar tissue breaking up and not your actual cuff. You may give TB500 a try, or talk with some guys on here about prolotherapy. And perhaps, if you have access to hgh, maybe that will work.

Good luck,

**johnC80** · 07-09-2013, 01:44 PM

I have been paranoid about getting a shoulder injury, since I see so many folks who do get them.

This has led me to start every single upper body workout, whether its arms, shoulders, back or chest with a long warm up consisting of rotator cuff exercises.

Google rotator cuff exercises and you should find plenty of vids with examples.

**yosimitesam** · 07-09-2013, 01:54 PM

Originally Posted by johnC80

I have been paranoid about getting a shoulder injury, since I see so many folks who do get them.

This has led me to start every single upper body workout, whether its arms, shoulders, back or chest with a long warm up consisting of rotator cuff exercises.

Google rotator cuff exercises and you should find plenty of vids with examples.

Smart plan. I broke my left shoulder blade a few years ago when riding my bicycle, and in the process tore ligaments and separated my shoulder. It healed, but I really neglected to keep it stretched. As a result, I had horrible problems with my left shoulder. I even thought I'd have to give up bench pressing altogether. Well, I ended up digging in and learning about stretches and strengthening exercises that has not only healed my shoulder, but has me back benching pain free. (knock on wood or quality solid oak veneer)

Glad you're feeling better, and looking back, I wish I had paid more attention to pre-habbing my joints and muscles, instead of having something happen and not knowing what to do.

**Brazensol** · 07-12-2013, 03:35 PM

Shoulders have been doing much better lately. I've been paying close attention to form and started stretching. I think the stretching has been the biggest help (lots better range of motion) but hard to say for sure.

**MakeEveryRepCount** · 07-13-2013, 02:54 PM

Originally Posted by Brazensol

Shoulders have been doing much better lately. I've been paying close attention to form and started stretching. I think the stretching has been the biggest help (lots better range of motion) but hard to say for sure.

Congrats man. Hate it when my shoulders bother me.

As a side note, been doing dumbbell upright rows for my lateral delts and while its been too short to notice any real growth, they definitely get pumped during my workout giving me a wider look up top so it's definitely hitting the right muscle group. No real shoulder issues with it either. Thanks everyone who recommended them!