Tbol/Var Cycle Diary - First Cycle

**SprinterOne** · 06-24-2005, 12:36 PM

If you are going simply for weight gain, why are you doing any cardio?

**Cmore** · 06-24-2005, 12:39 PM

The cardio I'm doing is very light. I play softball 1 night per week and baseball 1 evening per week, so the cardio lasts for 2 hours at a time, but is very light because softball is not very strenuous. I'm going to add cardio during the var because I would like to maintain what weight I have, but get shredded. I used this first four weeks of tbol as sortof a bulking phase, but I need to be careful because of the dirty bulking diet, do not want to gain fat if at all possible.

**SprinterOne** · 06-24-2005, 01:41 PM

Ah, that's cool. I thought you were running on a treadmill or something. Nothing wrong with enjoying some athletic competition now and then, makes life worth living

Besides, I would hardly call baseball and softball cardio.

**Cmore** · 06-24-2005, 01:47 PM

Yeah, that's why I was calling it "light" cardio. Only reason I even call it cardio at all is that both the teams I play on are very competitive and we play hard. The baseball games actually last around 2.5 hours during early afternoon when it's hot, and I actually run quite a bit in those games. Softball we run a lot. It's an all mens league, so it's mostly a scoring game, usually 25-30 runs for each team each game, so lots of base running there too. So it's not quite cardio in the same sense that most use, but it is more than none. The extra cardio I'm going to add when starting the var will actually be running for a while, either on treadmill or track.

**Cmore** · 06-25-2005, 10:11 PM

Finishing up tbol. Will be starting the var directly after and will be running it at 50 mg ED until gone, which will be 40 days. Will be adding a day of cardio and cleaning up the diet a bit. Will still be eating around 4000 calories per day, just reducing the fat intake.

**Cmore** · 06-25-2005, 10:31 PM

Ok, finally have some measurements for everyone.

Measurements from couple weeks before starting tbol:
Arms: 13"
Forearms: 11"
Waist: 29"
Chest: 36"
Thighs: 19.5"
Calves: 13"

After 4 weeks of tbol (wk 1=30 mg ED, wks 2-4=40 mg ED):
Arms: 14"
Forearms: 12.5"
Waist: 30"
Chest: 38.5"
Thighs: 20.75"
Calves: 13.5"

I am happy with my results so far, but of course feel there is plenty room for improvement and still want more. As you can see, I gained a slight amount of size in my waist also. This will be the reason for adding some cardio and cleaning up the diet a bit. These things, along with the var, should remove any excess fat from around my middle or anywhere else while hardening up everything.

Start: 136 lbs
End wk 1: 139 lbs
End wk 2: 144 lbs
End wk 3: 147 lbs
End wk 4: 151 lbs

I reached my 150 mark +1, now to maintain that or gain just a couple pounds, while losing some fat. I've gained a total of 15 pounds during the 4 weeks, and kept almost the exact same body fat %, which means I gained around 1.5-2 lbs of fat. I'd like to shed that plus another couple pounds of fat, but gain another few pounds muscle, so that by the end of the var, I am between 150-155, with around 7% bf. I believe it can be done. I will post some pics from after these first four weeks soon and have others at the end of the var.

**Defconx3** · 06-26-2005, 04:07 AM

Im very impressed with the way your progressing. Keep it up bro!

**Cmore** · 06-27-2005, 10:29 AM

Today is day 2 of var. I've cleaned up the diet a bit. Still getting around 4000 calories per day and lots of protein. Only thing I have changed is watching the amount of fat intake closer and keeping it lower. I'm going to stick to the same split and little to no cardio for the first few days, maybe even week or two and see what things look like, then I will add cardio if needed. Will be weighing this evening. No idea if it is from the end of the tbol or already from just 2 days of var, but today my body feels harder than normal. Still no sides and I feel good and look better than I have. Hopefully I will get pictures up later today or tommorrow.

**Cmore** · 06-27-2005, 10:44 AM

Since I have only been on var for just over a day now, I have no thoughts on it yet, but only considering the four weeks of tbol I finished, I would revise the tbol portion to run it for 10 weeks at probably 50 mg ED. For someone trying tbol for the first time, or a smaller person, I would recommend starting at 40 mg ED to get an idea of how that will work for you. 40 mg ED has worked great for me. For a larger person or someone with more experience with aas, 60-70 mg ED would probably still work well, though this is just a guess. I now love tbol and hope that I will love var at least as much. After a couple weeks of var, I will know how I will do with it and will have good ideas for another future cycle if I so choose.

**Cmore** · 06-27-2005, 11:00 AM

Ok, I have a question. Let's say I planned on running tbol and var together, sortof like what I'm doing now, but the cycle was something like this:

Weeks 1-10: Tbol 50 mg ED
Weeks 4-10: Var

Would it be best to just add some var in addition to the tbol, or lower the tbol and say take 30 mg ed tbol and 20 mg ed var for the last 6 weeks and keep the total at 50 for the entire time? Or other ways would be best?

**SprinterOne** · 06-27-2005, 11:10 AM

Originally Posted by Cmore

Ok, I have a question. Let's say I planned on running tbol and var together, sortof like what I'm doing now, but the cycle was something like this:

Weeks 1-10: Tbol 50 mg ED
Weeks 4-10: Var

Would it be best to just add some var in addition to the tbol, or lower the tbol and say take 30 mg ed tbol and 20 mg ed var for the last 6 weeks and keep the total at 50 for the entire time? Or other ways would be best?

Well, what would your goal be for this cycle? Is the tbol used to gain and the var used to cut? Are they both used to gain? Strength? This will influence what you take when and how much.

**Cmore** · 06-27-2005, 12:09 PM

It would be a lean bulk type cycle. Perhaps try and put on around 5-10 pounds of muscle and add very little or no extra fat. This is for future reference, by the way.

**SprinterOne** · 06-27-2005, 04:15 PM

That would probably work, I just hope you are going heavy on the liver protectors. Those are about the max length you can do on an oral cycle.

**Cmore** · 06-27-2005, 08:06 PM

Yeah, I would never run orals more than 10 weeks, and would run any except var/tbol for 8 or less. I'm taking milk thistle.

**Cmore** · 06-27-2005, 08:11 PM

Weighed in today at 150, so no weight gain over the weekend, or at least none showed today. Had a rough day at work, non stop, and only had enough time to eat a few bites of lunch was a big part of it. Probably why I weighed in 1 pound less. Benched 205 for three reps today. First two unassisted, third I think my spot bumped it a bit, even though he says he didn't. I'm excited. 205 is my personal record and today I got 2 reps with it. After about 2-3 weeks of var I will try to max one day and see where I'm at. I'm hoping around 225-230.

**Cmore** · 06-27-2005, 09:00 PM

If I were to add some proviron , when should I add it? For the last 4 weeks during the var? I'm having no problems or sides that would warrant its use as far as that goes, just getting more information.

**supermax21** · 06-28-2005, 11:20 AM

Cmore, I just want to let you know how much I appreciate this thread. I am interested in the exact same cycle you are doing, but the lack of research I could turn up on it left me with cold feet. Keep up the good work

**Cmore** · 06-28-2005, 11:37 AM

I'm hoping to help a lot of people, including myself of course, with this cycle and thread. I know a lot of people are asking about Anavar and Turinabol . There are lots of threads asking questions and lots of answers, but hopefully this thread will contain many different things, including personal experience, all in one place. I think there would be a few changes made if I were to do this cycle again. Nothing drastic, but a few dosing/timing adjustments. I loved tbol and I think I will enjoy the var just as much, but will have to see.

**Cmore** · 06-28-2005, 12:08 PM

Just as a reminder, I changed the cycle that was outlined in the very beginning to:

Week 1: 30 mg Tbol ED
Weeks 2-4: 40 mg Tbol ED
Then day 29-68: 50 mg Var ED

If I begin to feel a decrease in sex drive I will add Proviron @ 25 mg ED for the last 25 days, or I might add it anyway.
I am on my third day of Var currently and everything is going great. No sides, I am up 14-15 pounds, nearly all of which is muscle, and my strength has gone up quite a bit. Even the tbol started bringing some of my veins to the surface, and I think running it for 8 weeks would add some good vascularity. Now that I've started the var, my goal for the end of the cycle will be to be 150-155 pounds, ripped and strong, with 7-8% bf.

**Cmore** · 06-28-2005, 01:15 PM

Just want to add another thing. Thanks to all AR members for the great information and making this place the best resource anywhere. Diet is definitely a huge part of any cycle. Make sure you get enough calories and eat enough protein. I have seen some pretty good gains on this cycle so far. Adding 15 pounds to someone who only weighs around 135 to begin with is a good bit, but I can easily tell when I have not eaten enough. Any day that I have not eaten as well as I should, which has only been 1 or 2, my weight has not gone up any, it will stay the same. Anyone looking to do any cycle, no matter what it is, please read, listen, research and get a good diet first. It does not have to be perfect, but make sure you learn a lot about it first.

**Cmore** · 06-29-2005, 07:14 AM

Today is day 4 of Var. Another good day yesterday, day 3. Worked legs. Weighed in just slightly over 151. Left the weightroom barely able to walk. Legs are still sore this morning. Still no sides, everything is great. I'm already starting to see a bit more veins. Having a few veins showing around my shoulders/arms with no pump, no flexing, and this is just a few days into var. Looking great for the rest of the var days.

**Cmore** · 06-29-2005, 11:42 AM

So far everything seems to be growing and improving and I am happy with all except for one part...my stomach needs more work. I am at nearly the exact same bf% that I was before starting. It seems that what little fat I had in my body has migrated from everywhere to around my middle. The front of my stomach is about the same, but my "love handles" seem a bit bigger. Could just be my imagination, but I doubt it. Anyway, what are some good exercises for stomach-front and sides? Right now I do leg raises, weighted crunches, side crunches. Desperate to get a ripped middle, so any ideas please help. Thanks.

**GridIronDevil** · 06-29-2005, 05:04 PM

i really enjoy reading about your progress, your specific about detail, and honest, i think this journal will help alot of people who intend to use var or tbol or both, good work bro, keep eating, and training, post some pics when its all said and done, should be an awsome looking change! GL and have fun Bro
-Grid

**Joey2ness** · 06-30-2005, 01:18 AM

awesome thread on anavar tbol and please post some pics of after results when your done

**Cmore** · 06-30-2005, 09:49 AM

Thanks bros. I took some pictures right after the 4 weeks of tbol, just have not taken the time to put them up yet. I will also take pictures again at the very end, after the var. I can tell some big differences in myself. I'm still not huge by any means, I mean heck, I still only weigh around 150. But, that's a great change for me considering I have been around 130-135 most all of my life. Today is upper body again. I'm hoping my strength might be up a bit, but the var probably will take a few more days to kick in. I'll try to get those pics up tommorrow.

**Cmore** · 06-30-2005, 11:58 AM

Starting today, I am upping my ab workout. I am going to make sure I work them extra hard nearly every day in the weight room and I'm going to add a couple extra exercises. Hoping to get my waist back down to 29" and add that lost size in other, move favorable places.

**Cmore** · 06-30-2005, 09:38 PM

WOOOOHOOOO!!! Today's workout was awesome. Strength up on EVERYTHING. As I posted a few days ago, my PR on bench from before was 205 and I got two unassisted reps of it the other day. Today I got 3 unassisted reps of 205 AFTER having already done 3 sets. I'm definitely going to go for a new PR in the coming week. I felt great today. My muscles are feeling a bit harder, the weight is feeling lighter, and I love it. I still weighed in at 151 today, so the weight gain has slowed. I do, however, believe I will make it to 155 by the end of var if not a bit higher. Making my diet more strict and limiting the fat/sugar intake is partly to blame for the slowed weight gain, but it should still move slowly while trimming my waist and any other bits of fat. Will hopefully post pics from end of 4 weeks of tbol in the morning. Everyone have a great night and great workouts. Seeya.

**Cmore** · 07-01-2005, 08:28 AM

New pics today. These are from the end of the four weeks of tbol. I think I had 1 day left in the 4 weeks when these were taken. At the time of these pics I am 151 pounds. Measurements are:

Arms: 14"
Forearms: 12.5"
Waist: 30"
Chest: 38.5"
Thighs: 20.75"
Calves: 13.5"

Still around 11% bf at that time. I can tell differences in myself almost everywhere and feel thicker overall. The pics look better to me than the first ones did, but I'm still just around 150, so not impressive by any means. Feel free to critique and let me know what all you guys think I have improved well or not so well. Thanks.

**Cmore** · 07-01-2005, 09:44 AM

I have decided to max on Tuesday of the coming week. I'm going to take Monday, the 4th, as an extra day off because I torched my arms and everything yesterday to the point they are still aching. Tuesday I will see exactly what kind of gains I have gotten on bench and try some heavy auxillary lifting too. PR from before, as I already stated, was 205 for 1 rep on bench. Did 205 twice around a week ago and got 205 three times yesterday. Depending on how I feel that day, which should be good from the long weekend, I'm going to aim for 225, then depending on how well that goes, 230-235.

**bornonhalloween** · 07-01-2005, 10:59 AM

I can tell your back is much wider...more mass on the quads...which is typical for beginners as those muscles are the first ones to see changes....keep up the good work.

**Cmore** · 07-01-2005, 11:08 AM

Thanks. My back and legs have always been lacking a bit too, so that's another reason for them to improve easier. My arms look like crap in those pictures. I'll try to get a better picture of them. They are still small, relative to most everyone here, but they are a bit bigger as is everything else. Still need more size on everything, though. If I were to run this cycle again, I would switch the amount of tbol/var in it. I only had enough tbol for 4 weeks at 40 mg ED, and var for 6 weeks at 50 mg ED. I would change it so that I had enough tbol for about 50 mg ED for 8 weeks and maybe run the var for the last 4-6 weeks of it. Or just run tbol only. Would have to see, I still have not seen what the var can do other than strength is going up fast.

**Cmore** · 07-01-2005, 02:01 PM

Anyone has some good oblique exercises or other ab exercises?

**Cmore** · 07-01-2005, 09:43 PM

Any critiques? Fairly weak in nearly every spot, I know. I definitely need to add some major mass and definition, but any critiques would be great. Any spots lagging behind or doing decent compared with the rest or whatever you guys think. Just let me know, I can use advice or whatever on exercises to add or techniques if you feel I need them. Thanks.

**ace ventura** · 07-03-2005, 06:55 AM

Very interesting reading..

I would consentrate on bulking as much as I could if I were you but ofcourse that depends on what goals you have. Will you continue the strugle to get bigger when this cycle ends? Or will you be satisfied with the gains and being a little leaner?

Also, do you run creatine with anavar ?

No particular exercise will burn fat around the middle, just do more cardio..

**duke911** · 07-03-2005, 11:59 AM

great diary. please keep us posted. If you had only changed your diet and not the gear do you think you would be getting the same results. Just trying to compare the tbol and the anavar . what would you do differently if anything? thanks

**DwinsChamps** · 07-03-2005, 01:45 PM

You may want to consider moseying around at the men's health website specifically, http://www.menshealth.com/cda/conten...&type=exercise . Keep in mind, though, that cardio is vital for burning the layer of fat over your abs...it's necessary if you want to see them. You're doing really well though, inspirationally well, so keep up the good work!

Additionally, some really good excercises are decline med ball/weight plate crunches, and a pilates-esque excercise where you lay on your back with your legs extended and locked. Proceed to raise your feet (while bending at the hips) up until your legs are approx. 75 degrees to the ground, then rotate your lower body to the left (while keeping your back flat on the ground) and bring your feet just about the ground, next to you on your left. From there, rotate all the way until your feet near the ground to the right of you, then rotate back left until your feet are inline with your body again. From there, lower your feet until they nearly touch the ground, then lift them back up to the 75 degree mark. Make sure you do this whole procedure slowly, keeping your abs under tension and taking your time. That's one rep. Do 6 reps for your first set, 5 for your second, and 4 for your third.

**Cmore** · 07-03-2005, 10:01 PM

Originally Posted by ace ventura

Very interesting reading..

I would consentrate on bulking as much as I could if I were you but ofcourse that depends on what goals you have. Will you continue the strugle to get bigger when this cycle ends? Or will you be satisfied with the gains and being a little leaner?

Also, do you run creatine with anavar ?

No particular exercise will burn fat around the middle, just do more cardio..

My goal for the end of this cycle was 150 to start, and now I would be happy anywhere between 150-155, but getting things more ripped and defined. I have not weighed since Friday, but I was at 151 then. I would like to lose about 3 pounds of fat and gain that same 3 pounds back in muscle, which would provide more definition and lower bf a bit. I have not being using creatine, I never really liked the stuff. It mostly adds water weight and although I am bulking, I would like to remain somewhat leaner. As for after this cycle, I would like to just maintain what I have gained. Hopefully by the time I am ready for a second cycle, if there is one, I would still be between 150-155 and decently ripped. My final goal when all is said and done, where I would like to be for the rest of my life, is 160-170, 6-7% bf, and completely shredded. Remember I am only 5'8".

**Cmore** · 07-03-2005, 10:16 PM

Originally Posted by duke911

great diary. please keep us posted. If you had only changed your diet and not the gear do you think you would be getting the same results. Just trying to compare the tbol and the anavar. what would you do differently if anything? thanks

My diet is a dirty bulk type of diet, or was from the beginning til the last few days. I ate anything and everything that was around even when I was not hungry. Now I have cut back just a bit on fat/sugar intake, but kept the amount of food/calories/protein high. I believe just changing my diet would have possibly allowed me to gain a few pounds, but my guess is 5-7 at best. I have tried eating like crazy before and it just did not seem to work. I think the tbol has allowed my body to utilize the protein better to gain muscle. If anything, adding the extra protein has helped a lot. I would say a few pounds from the extra protein and a few more from the rest of the diet, but my guess is no where near the 15 I've gained. As for the tbol/var, they both have great benefits. I have not seen all of the var yet, because I'm only around a week into it, should be soon, though. The tbol was awesome. I gained muscle fast, had no negative side effects, and it slightly increased my apetite. My strength has gone up already from the var, but I have not noticed much else as of yet. I should start seeing more veins and definition soon. Something I would do differently....I would run more tbol. I would probably run the tbol for weeks 1-8 at 40-50 mg ED and then the var at 50-60 mg ED for weeks 7-10. Definitely use milk thistle if run any orals for 10 weeks, though. I use it anyway, and would with any orals. Not sure on the var, though. As I said, have not seen its full effects yet, so will know for sure later on that. I do know, however, that I absolutely loved the tbol and would definitely run it again.

**Cmore** · 07-03-2005, 10:20 PM

Thanks, DwinsChamps. I already do those leg things, I just called them leg raises, although I don't do them exactly like you have there. I will try that. I also do the weighted crunches.

**Cmore** · 07-06-2005, 02:41 PM

Day 10 of anavar . Diet has been cleaned up. Still a bulking diet, but fat has been cut back. Weight is holding at 151 so far. Strength is slowly moving up. I'm getting an extra rep or two on most lifts. No negative side effects. Veins are slowly becoming more visible. So far I prefer tbol to var, but I'm still just 10 days into var, so hopefully the rest that's left will impress me more. Workouts are going great, though.