Tbol/Var Cycle Diary - First Cycle

**Cmore** · 07-29-2005, 07:30 AM

Originally Posted by Nicky B

No need to shortin the cycle.

No choice. That's all the Var I have.

**Cmore** · 07-29-2005, 09:22 AM

I'm going to have to change up my workout routine. Up until this point, I have been working each body part twice per week, but that is no longer enough rest. I will be changing my workout split so that I only work each part once per week. Here is the split I have been thinking about. What do you guys think?

Sunday: Rest
Monday: Chest/Tris
Tuesday: Legs
Wednesday: Rest
Thursday: Back/Bis
Friday: Shoulders/Abs
Saturday: Rest

**Duster** · 07-30-2005, 12:44 PM

sounds good bro

**Cmore** · 08-01-2005, 07:37 AM

Two more days left after today. Everything is going good. Will post pics towards end of the week hopefully. Will also have measurements.

**Duster** · 08-01-2005, 11:42 AM

Im interested in seeing the difference

**Nicky B** · 08-02-2005, 06:56 PM

Originally Posted by Cmore

Two more days left after today. Everything is going good. Will post pics towards end of the week hopefully. Will also have measurements.

Did you bump the dose

**Cmore** · 08-04-2005, 08:15 AM

Yes, I ended up bumping the dose up to 60 for the last few days. Everything is great, I just finished and will start PCT. Will have those pics and measurements up as soon as I get some time.

**Cmore** · 08-04-2005, 09:14 AM

I will also be checking my numbers at the weightroom today and will post how much my bench has improved and possibly some others as well.

**TADOLFI** · 08-04-2005, 07:32 PM

Hey bro - new to the board. I've used Tbol (successfully I might add) and would like to hear your take on that vs. the VAR when you have time.

**Cmore** · 08-05-2005, 07:44 AM

Originally Posted by TADOLFI

Hey bro - new to the board. I've used Tbol (successfully I might add) and would like to hear your take on that vs. the VAR when you have time.

I like both of them, but I am partial to the Tbol. It would probably depend on what my goals were at the time too. I gained about 15 pounds in 4 weeks on Tbol, and have only gained 2 pounds in about 5-6 weeks on Var. Although I have gained little weight, my arms, chest, and all the good places are a bit bigger, so I have moved the weight around a bit. Tbol was a lot more mass/size, Var gave more vascularity. Both gave great strength. Both gave decent pumps. They seem very comparable at least to me. Only real big difference was the size/mass gain and that was obviously better with the Tbol. I do think that the two taken together, instead of how I ran this first cycle, would work great.

**Cmore** · 08-05-2005, 07:57 AM

Measurements from couple weeks before starting tbol:
Arms: 13"
Forearms: 11"
Waist: 29"
Chest: 36"
Thighs: 19.5"
Calves: 13"

After 4 weeks of tbol (wk 1=30 mg ED, wks 2-4=40 mg ED):
Arms: 14"
Forearms: 12.5"
Waist: 30"
Chest: 38.5"
Thighs: 20.75"
Calves: 13.5"

Post Cycle:
Arms: 14.25"
Forearms: 13"
Waist: 30"
Chest: 39"
Thighs: 21"
Calves: 13.75"

Start: 136 lbs
End wk 1: 139 lbs
End wk 2: 144 lbs
End wk 3: 147 lbs
End wk 4: 151 lbs
End wk 5: 151 lbs
End wk 6: 151 lbs
End wk 7: 152 lbs
End wk 8: 152 lbs
End wk 9: 153 lbs

Entire cycle ended up being:
Wk 1: 30 mg Tbol ED
Wk 2-4: 40 mg Tbol ED
Wk 5-8: 50 mg Var ED
Wk 9: 60 mg Var ED

**Cmore** · 08-05-2005, 08:34 AM

Also have new pics today. These are from a couple days after finishing the cycle. I'm still lean and have lots of work ahead, but compared to the very first pictures, I believe it's like night and day. Feel free to critique and give some good advice and pointers. Thanks.

**Cmore** · 08-05-2005, 08:35 AM

A few more pics.

**ptrainer** · 08-05-2005, 10:01 AM

Cmore,

Hey my man ...Great job!!!

I just read your post from start to finish. Thats a lot of good info for someone just starting out. Did you ever get your blood tested during your cycle?

I just finished a 12 wk cycle of Var only about 3 wks ago ( was my first ever). I ran it up to 150 mg per day. That's right ...per day. I stayed mostly at 100mg ed. Not much wt gain ...about 11 lbs. I traded in about 7 lbs of fat with that as well. I know the lethergy your speaking of with the var. I did have my blod tested several times during my cycle to keep an eye on my liver and kidneys. To my suprise I stayed within the normal range the whole time with those values. BUT ... damn ... it effected my triglycerides sooo much as well as my HDL's. Triglycerides are used for energy. They are a big source of energy in daily living just going about your business. I've been reading on clen and also ephedrine ... they both increase the availability to use triglycerides and fatty acids for use as fuel. Just a thought ...hmmm I think I may try to work a little of that into my next STACK. My bench jumped from 265 to 315 over the 12 weeks and funny thing ... I still seem to be making some good progress. I've been working out HARD for about 21 years ... I'm almost 40. I think it really got me to the next level. My next cycle I think I'm going to use some Primo and Anavar and maybe 4 weeks of winny thrown in if it feels like I'm in need of a little more. Oh .. and a bit of ephedra as well. Ever thought of Primo? I like orals and slow growth that stays.

For now I'm on my way to re-ballancing my system back to normal. For some reason I just don't like the thought of muscle sticks. I'm currently 203and 6'1" and my BF is at 7%. I've had no fall of as of yet.

Jackson ... I think you look fantastic!

**Cmore** · 08-05-2005, 10:10 AM

Thanks, ptrainer. Hopefully this will provide some good first hand info about Tbol and Var and answer some questions that people may have. You're looking good, bro. Keep up the hard work. My goal for my next cycle will be 165 lbs. Once I reach that weight, I will probably then work on cutting a bit, but not much.

**Cmore** · 08-05-2005, 10:15 AM

I didn't have my blood tested at any time. I took milk thistle and flax to help with the liver and circulatory system. Of course I have no proof of this, but I believe that the only thing that was probably changed was my blood pressure and maybe a bit of cholesterol. High BP and cholesterol both run in my family, so that is part of it, but neither were high enough to make me feel different or have any sides. I will probably have a blood test done in the next few weeks to check how my levels are after PCT.

**xxSmartyPantsxx** · 08-05-2005, 10:18 AM

wow, i just looked at your before pics....dayum, you really look different.

good job, i know it was hard work and dedication that paid the dividends.

this was the best log i've read here.

**Cmore** · 08-05-2005, 10:22 AM

Originally Posted by xxSmartyPantsxx

wow, i just looked at your before pics....dayum, you really look different.

good job, i know it was hard work and dedication that paid the dividends.

this was the best log i've read here.

Thanks. I really worked hard. Harder than I ever thought I would want to, and the harder I worked, the more I liked it, because I was seeing results. Most people will probably look at the last set of pics, including myself, and think "Not very good, a somewhat muscular skinny guy". And they would be correct, but if you pull up a pic from the first set and last set side by side, they are very different. So far I have kept all of what I gained also. Of course, I'm only a few days into PCT.

**Cmore** · 08-05-2005, 10:30 AM

O, yeah, I was planning on putting up my numbers on some lifts and how they improved. Here goes:

Bench:
Before: 205 X 1 rep
After: 205 X 5 reps

Incline DB Bench:
Before: 3 sets X 10 reps w/35-40 in each hand
After: 3 sets X 10 reps w/55-60 in each hand

Squats(I can't squat very heavy because of a recurring injured ham):
Before: 3 sets X 10 reps w/185
After 3 sets X 10 reps w/225

Curls:
Before: 3 sets X 10 reps w/25 in each hand
After: 3 sets X 10 reps w/35-40 in each hand

Tricep Pushdowns:
Before: 3 sets X 10 reps w/50 lbs
After: 3 sets X 10 reps w/90 lbs

**TADOLFI** · 08-05-2005, 10:20 PM

Cmore...Great pics and great work!
I think this whole thread should be bumped to the Mod

If and when you're ready for cycle two - start a new thread and keep the info coming.

I appreciate the feedback on the Tbol.
I was sold on mass and pump when I did my first cycle.

**Cmore** · 08-08-2005, 07:56 AM

I will definitely keep a log again when it comes time for next cycle, if there is one. More than likely there will be, but will be a few months down the road.

I'm about 5-6 days into PCT and everything is still great. I still weighed 153 a couple days ago and will weigh again today when I get to the weightroom. I have changed up my workout routine as I had thought about doing. It is now:

Sunday: Rest
Monday: Chest/Tris
Tuesday: Legs
Wednesday: Rest
Thursday: Back/Bis
Friday: Shoulders/Abs
Saturday: Rest

Looks like nearly every single pound will be kept so far. Will know for sure later. I will keep everyone updated. If anyone has any questions, comments, critiques, whatever about any part of this entire thread, please feel free to post them. I can always use good advice and I will answer any questions as best I can and based on my personal experiences.

**kloter1** · 08-09-2005, 05:20 PM

So what ive seen so far you'd recommend tbol over var? as far as better strength and weight gain? I might run an 8weeker of tbol soon.

**Cmore** · 08-10-2005, 07:48 AM

Originally Posted by kloter1

So what ive seen so far you'd recommend tbol over var? as far as better strength and weight gain? I might run an 8weeker of tbol soon.

I would recommend tbol over var for mass/size. I would recommend var over tbol for strength, although not by much. Tbol gave good size gains and good strength and the var gave very little size and good strength. Basically I just like tbol better overall for my personal goals and tastes because it allowed me to gain some size. For a second cycle I will probably run something like this:

Weeks 1-8: Tbol 50 mg ED
Weeks 3-8: Var 30 mg ED

Two orals together, I know, but both are relatively low doses and only 80 mg ED total, which is around what a lot run var only at, so it should not be too hard on the liver. Will take milk thistle anyway, though.

**Cmore** · 08-10-2005, 08:04 AM

Yesterday was Chest/Tris. Had a good workout. Weighed in at 152, which is one pound down, but I have not eaten well the last couple days, so I think that had more to do with it. Will weigh again today and weight will probably be back up 1 pound. I'm still feeling good, working out hard. No problems from PCT thus far and strength seems to be only very slightly back down, but this could have been because of an off day as well. Will keep checking and updating here.

**Cmore** · 08-11-2005, 11:03 AM

Back/Bis yesterday and everything went great. Weighed in at 152 again and have started eating even more to try and maintain all the weight/size I can. Hopefully when all is said and done and I stop losing I will be at 150 or higher, which I believe will happen. Still no problems of any sort.

**Cmore** · 08-12-2005, 07:46 AM

Yesterday was a rest day. Today will be shoulders/abs. Then starting Monday I will be on the previously mentioned split. Everything is still going good. Will weigh this afternoon and see where I'm at.

**Cmore** · 08-15-2005, 01:15 PM

Will be chest/tris today. Last time I weighed in I was at 151, so I have dropped 2 pounds total. I don't think I've lost any more over the weekend, but will weigh today to check. Everything is still great.

**Cmore** · 08-16-2005, 09:11 AM

Weighed in at 151 yesterday. Felt good during workout. Completely torched chest and tris. Arms still feel like jello today. All is looking good.

**Cmore** · 08-22-2005, 08:05 AM

PCT is finished. I ran clomid for 3 weeks. 100 mg ED for first 2, then 50 mg ED for last week. Everything is great. I remain at 151 pounds and feeling good about everything. The vascularity in my shoulders/chest is still there, if not more so since losing those 2 pounds. I'm still much stronger than I was before cycle, even though that strength has dropped some since the var left my system. Benching 205 3 reps now, which is an improvement from that being my 1 rep max before. I feel much much healthier than I did before and am happier with my body now. About another 15 pounds from next cycle or two and I will have reached my overall goal. Thanks everyone for keeping me motivated and helping me to learn.

**Cmore** · 08-24-2005, 09:28 AM

Everything is still great. Have had good workouts this week so far. Benched 205 three times and would have tried for four, but I did not have a spot, so strength is not as down as I had thought, only slightly. I'm still using the same weight on all other lifts as I was while on cycle. None of those have gone back down at all. I weighed in at 151 again, so it looks like that's going to be my new weight for a while.

**Rocky IV** · 10-04-2005, 04:11 AM

Originally Posted by Cmore

Everything is still great. Have had good workouts this week so far. Benched 205 three times and would have tried for four, but I did not have a spot, so strength is not as down as I had thought, only slightly. I'm still using the same weight on all other lifts as I was while on cycle. None of those have gone back down at all. I weighed in at 151 again, so it looks like that's going to be my new weight for a while.

hey i love your thread i followed the whole thing your before and after pics are great.. do you think it would be ok to stack the two compunds together
at 50mg of tbol and 40mg of var a day along with all the procautions milk thistle ect.? also do feel a good sence of well being kinda like your on test? confident and feel great? also were you pumped 24 hours a day once you were a few weeks into your cycle?

**tboney** · 10-04-2005, 11:27 AM

Good work!! Thanks for keeping us informed!

**tallyjuice** · 10-14-2005, 05:10 PM

amazing thread! great job!

**spywizard** · 12-07-2005, 03:52 PM

Good job man.. you can tell from the back you were really doing a good job with the var.. or rather it was for you..

Keep us posted..

**Milky87** · 12-08-2005, 05:25 AM

Wow! Cmore for Prime Minister (or Presidnet)!

That log was easily the most informative I have ever read. I can see from the picturs that you put on some good size for you.Nice work man!

What dosing protocol did you use? Did you take it all in the morning, spread throughout the day, half-half around training?

Ptrainer: Good job on yours aswell