First cycle: Dbol + Sust

**davidthebeast** · 10-09-2002, 03:51 PM

Hi everyone! This is my first post on here. This is a great web site. I enjoy reading all these threads, they are educational and sometimes funny.

Are you still awake?

My first cycle:
Weeks 1-2 Dbol 20 MG ED
Weeks 3-5 Dbol 30 MG ED 10-20 MG Nolva ED for water retention
Weeks 1-7 Sust 250 once every 5-6 days
Week 10-11: Clomid and Nolvadex as advised.
Weeks 9-13: Clenbuterol
Weeks 14-15: ECA

Stats before cycle:
31 years old, 6' mesomorph, 172 pounds, max bench 225 (barely), probably 15-17% BF but not sure since it was only the pinch test, also I'm taking measurements this weekend, I'll let you know.

I'm currently starting my 3rd week.

Already, I weigh 191 pounds and benched 265 once cleanly (then 3 more times with a little help) last Saturday!!

I've never benched anywhere close to that in my life! I'm eating tons of food, mostly protein, but feel I have gained a fair amount of water and fat, too. I may start with 20 MG Nolva more regularly. I noticed from 4 days ago when I started the Nolva my weight gain levelled off. Maybe I'm losing some water.

I only take 1 day off per week. I basically train back/triceps, chest/biceps, shoulders/legs, and abs and calves every other day. Lately I've been thinking this is too much. Thoughts?

And whoever said chicks can smell the test, you're damn right!! I went clubbin' at a 18+ club last Friday night and got molested by endless girls on the dance floor!

It was great.

Questions:
1. Do I need HCG at week 10?
2. How much Nolva should I use from weeks 7-11?
3. Am I overtraining? (I rarely get sore even though I'm doing 6-12 reps per set to utter failure. I do take L-glutamine with my protein shakes which has always helped me have a lot less muscle fatigue.)

Any suggestions or comments?

**latinherc** · 10-11-2002, 09:48 AM

I did pretty much the same cycle, only i add winstrol during the whole cycle, i gained 32 lbs, ate like a cow all day, and follow a similar workout , so to me it looks very good. My recomendation, just eat...and can add creatine, load phase one week on one off.
Oh by the way i post the thread about women arousal durng cycle, and im glad to hear it happened to other guys too...

be carefull....

**Jaguar** · 10-13-2002, 08:16 AM

Man just in regard's to ur test..

Was just wondering why are only taking it for 7 weeks man?? ya would probably benfit greatly if you brought it out to 10 or so.. (ofcourse if ya dont ahve enough money/gear) then that may not be possible..

most of ur gains so far will be form ther dbol , excepot the test prop in the Sust, sothe sust should be really kicking in from now on, But ur dosages are very low, you might want to think about upping them if you dont see the results u want, if u do them keep them low to save yaself for the next times

Best of luck mate..

Jaguar

**davidthebeast** · 10-15-2002, 01:12 PM

I added Deca -Durabolin (Nandralone 300) to my cycle for the next 10 weeks. I'll do 300 mg per week with 250 sust, then another 250 sust shot later in the week for 500 mg sust per week. I got more sust too, so I'll run it for 8 more weeks, then continue the Deca for an extra 2 weeks to hopefully help harden up the gains a little. I hope the Deca helps with my joints too, because my left shoulder and right elbow were pretty sore yesterday.

I'm also going to do 20 mg of Dbol for 4-5 more weeks instead of bumping it up to 30 mg, because that's what William Llewellyn says to do in his cycles in Anabolics 2002.

This morning I weighed 195 pounds. That's up 23 pounds in 3 weeks. My receptionist said I'm "getting too big." haha And I'm just getting started!

I'm taking 10 mg Nolva for water retention/fat gain which has helped a little, too.

I benched 225 on incline last night 4 times by myself.

I was nowhere close to that 3 weeks ago.

Keep the responses coming, they keep me motivated.

**sp9** · 10-15-2002, 03:42 PM

Excellent progress, keep the updates comming...Interested in how much weight you put on and then how much you keep after.

I think we should have a database around here of specific cycle results. No names of course.

**nj_** · 10-16-2002, 09:50 PM

I'm slightly confused, when you said you are going to run the sust for another 8 weeks, do you mean on top of the initial 7 you had planned? if you are running 15 weeks of test (for a first cycle) and have deca in there (which shuts down your HTPA hard), you are going to have a hell of a time recovering test levels. Can you clarify as to how long you are running the deca/sust for? Also, do you mean you are running dbol for 10 weeks? (even though it is a moderate dosage).

**davidthebeast** · 10-18-2002, 06:12 PM

I'll be 12 weeks total on AS instead of 7 or 8 as originally planned. I'm quitting Dbol after 6-7 weeks. I'll have about 9 weeks total of Sust and 10 weeks of Deca , will run the Deca 2 weeks by itself at the end to hopefully harden up the gains a little, then take Clen and ECA for cutting. I also forgot to mention I got some HCG : will take 3 shots of 5,000 IU about 2 weeks after last Deca shot 5 days apart with the Clomid and Nolva. The same day after my last shot of Deca I'll start the Clen, too. Sound good?

Day 25 Update
--------------
Weight: 201 (started at 172)

Everyone is commenting on how huge I'm getting. I'm afraid my folks are going to be ~highly~ suspicious

around Christmas, when, at this rate, I'll be about 240 and bursting out of my shirts.

I thought the weight would level off, but it looks like I'm still going up. I'm not getting fatter either, probably thanks to 10 or 20 mg of Nolva per day. Occasionally I don't take Nolva at all. I've always loved to eat!

I still need to work harder on abs. Much harder. Also on legs and rear delts. Chest and traps are bigger than ever. I'll try to get pics one of these days.

By the way, my workout partner's in Vegas this weekend for Mr. Olympia. He said he's going to try to get Arnold's autograph. Lucky dog.

EVERY SET TO ABSOLUTE FAILURE!

**Jaguar** · 10-19-2002, 07:43 AM

that is too long on the Dbol bro.. this is ur first cycle right??

i wouldn't run it anymore than 4-5..

and u really shouldn't ever really run it longer than that due to its liver damage...

Jaguar

**davidthebeast** · 10-21-2002, 10:27 AM

Since I've been told numerous times by all you guys here and on chat to finish up the Dbol in 5 weeks instead of 6-7, I'm going to go ahead and do that, even though William Llewellyn in Anabolics 2002 lists 7 week cycles of Dbol at 20 mg E/D. I'll just bump it to 30 mg E/D from now on. I'll probably get a little better pump out of it anyway since it feels like I slowly got used to it a little.

My joints definitely feel better. Maybe it's the deca ? I've only had one shot, but it's been a week. They feel much better already. I still hardly ever have much muscle soreness although I'm hitting it as hard as I can.

Day 28 Update
--------------

Weight: 198

I was feeling bloated and a little uncomfortable because of all the water retention this weekend. My heart was beating a little heavy, too.

No shortness of breath though, and other than the above, I felt and feel great. So, I took a Hydrochloriazide pill (just a light diuretic, water pill) and man did that ever help out. Pissed like 8 times in 2-3 hours and felt immediately better. I did, however, lose about 3-4 pounds by the next day! Kind of amazing how I almost instantly looked harder, though. Nuts have definitely shrunk and I'm getting a few zits, but nothing too bad. Also noticed that the blood clotting has slowed down a little (when I popped a few zits) but no big deal, just took a couple more seconds to quit bleeding.

Everyone seems to be taking notice. One friend said he'd better start working out if he's going to hang out with me and kept saying how huge my back was, another said I was looking "swole", and another asked me if I was taking anabolics (I denied it)!! Some girl at a club didn't believe me when I told her what I did for a living, and asked me if I was a bodybuilder.

My workout partner's back from Mr. Olympia, but I haven't talked to him yet. Will let you know if he had anything exciting happen to him. Chest tonight! Going to see if I can hit 265 again on flat bench, but 4-5 times tonight hopefully instead of just twice.

Thanks for the comments. Keep pumping!

**RoNNy THe BuLL** · 10-21-2002, 10:43 AM

Wicked bro! That's some serious gains! Keep up the good work and vroom! You'll be hitting 200+ in no time!

TRAIN HARD!

**trimunex** · 10-21-2002, 11:16 AM

Good results Bro! I think you mde the right choice on the D-bol, especially since it's your first cycle. You can always go bigger next time.. if you choose so.

9

**davidthebeast** · 10-22-2002, 09:58 AM

Finished my first month yesterday.

Weight: 202

Benched 275 on flat bench 2 times with no help.

I really need to start doing more wrist curls, because my weak forearms and wrists are holding me back on chest workouts with dumbbells, I could put up more weight, but they can't handle it. Still, never thought I'd gain this much so fast. About 8 weeks left to go!!

My goal is to hit 230 but be leaner with abs and bench 315 4 times no help.

I'm thinking of taking creatine 5g a day and definitely will start taking multi-vitamins.

Switched up the routine a little: doing chest/tri, back/bi instead of vice versa. I think this will work better for me.

**RoNNy THe BuLL** · 10-22-2002, 10:50 AM

I read a study that taking creatine while on a cycle is a waste of time. I don't remember where? If anyone does, post up the source.

I think it was on AR? Let me check.

**davidthebeast** · 10-27-2002, 04:10 PM

Weight: 203

Taking 2 days off in a row for the first time in a very long time. I think my body needs it, especially my joints. Taking glucosamine, too.

I tweaked some tendon or something under my right collar bone while taking off one of my (tight) t-shirts.

It still hurts after 2 days. Pisses me off that that's how I did it, not even while working out!!

Oh well, I'm sure it'll be fine in a day or two.

The back/bi and chest/tri routine did not work out at all. My biceps were already blasted so hard from doing back I could barely get a bicep workout in, and same thing with chest and triceps. Going back to back/triceps, chest/biceps. Shoulders/legs on the same day is becoming brutal...a very long workout day. Still, I'm seeing good gains so I'm going to tough it out for the final 7 weeks and try to go to bed earlier and sleep more. Eating 50g of protein every 2-3 hours.

A friend saw me for the first time in a month and went "Shit you're huge! You must have put on 30 pounds since I saw you last. ARE YOU ON STEROIDS !?!" haha Of course I denied it.

Did I mention lately chicks like muscles? I'm getting molested on the dance floor and everywhere I go out, lately. I love it.

**nj_** · 10-27-2002, 05:23 PM

Originally posted by RoNNy THe BuLL
I read a study that taking creatine while on a cycle is a waste of time. I don't remember where? If anyone does, post up the source.

I think it was on AR? Let me check.

If you're on var its not a waste of time

If you can afford it I don't see how it would hurt, I know plenty of people who take creatine while on cycle. Might not make much of a difference but it ain't going to be detrimental to your gains either.

**davidthebeast** · 10-30-2002, 05:41 PM

37 day update. Kinda pissed.

Weight: 208 and climbing.

Starting to notice that I'm getting quite a little paunch on me, which really sucks because I had worked so hard to get rid of it before this cycle. My strength is still climbing, but I hate the fat gain. It's probably the goddamn estrogen.

Therefore, to combat this, I'm starting my Clen /ECA stacking about 6 weeks early and will run it along with the remainder of my Sust/Deca cycle as soon as I've finished up the rest of my Dbol in 3-4 days. Also, will do cardio 2 times a week from now on and will for once in my life take abs seriously and work them f*cking hard! Plan on doing 250 sit-ups, 250 leg extenders, and 250 oblique bends every single morning in sets of 50 each. I have to burn a couple inches off my waist or all of this is worthless.

Still taking 20 mg of Nolva every day.. Should I take 30 mg? Would that help, too?

**Carlos_E** · 11-01-2002, 09:59 PM

Have you thought about doing arms on a seperate day? That way you can take the time too really hit your forearms.

**davidthebeast** · 11-04-2002, 06:02 PM

Weight: 208 (Began at 172)

Things are going pretty well. Finished my last day of Dbol yesterday, so it's just Sust and Deca for the next 6 weeks. This is one gruesome cycle and I'm working very hard at it. I'm very tired lately. Also my shoulders are sore, so I'm taking a few days off. I may even take 4 days off this week to let my body rest and heal up, it being the midway point in my cycle.

Kinda relieved I'm off the Dbol. I hope I continue to gain on the Sust and Deca, but hope it's a little leaner with less bloat. The true test I guess is what I can gain now off the Dbol.

Everyone that hasn't seen me in a while is still trippin' about how big I got so fast. One guy at the gym swore I was on roids so I finally had to admit I was. He's a friend of mine, but kinda pissed me off because he said I shouldn't do it and was giving me advice I didn't need or ask for. He also said "All the Sustanon and Deca nowadays is fake" which really pissed me off. If it's so fake why did I gain 6 pounds per week for 6 weeks straight with incredible strength gains? I think he's just hating 'cuz I'm so huge compared to him. I guess he feels better about himself knowing that I'm "cheating". Another friend warned me this would happen, that people would get jealous.

Carlos: good idea on the arms. I'm a little tired of my routine right now. The chest/bi, back/tri, shoulders/legs twice a week is brutal. I'm in the gym like 2.5 hours a night and killing myself. I think I'm going to switch up soon and do Chest, Back, Shoulders, Legs, Chest, Arms, then rest one day. That way I can do forearms, abs and calves more too and get out of the gym in well under 2 hours.

Question: Should I take a shot of HCG right now, in the middle of my cycle? Please someone let me know if this would be beneficial. thx

**davidthebeast** · 11-11-2002, 04:32 PM

Weight: 211

Still eating like a pig.

Benched 275 five times. Will try 285 this weekend.

Took 5 days off because of shoulder pain. Feeling much better and stronger, and I think I somehow got bigger even.

Got more Nolvadex so I'll be taking 20 mg per day here on out. I have that water retention and fat gain problem that it really helps with.

I have 5 more weeks of deca and sust to go then will do HCG and Clomid and maybe 10 mg of Nolva, too. I want to get to 225 then cut back down to 210 but keep most of the muscle and lose the fat. Will do that with the Clen and ECA for 8 weeks and will lower my caloric intake and eat oatmeal, chicken, tuna a la Dark and Alevok's diet. I'll keep y'all posted.

**davidthebeast** · 11-27-2002, 04:14 PM

I decided to cut short my cycle a little bit because of a shoulder injury.

It's not that bad, but I can't lift heavy for a few weeks, maybe even a month, so might as well cut it a little short anyways.

I ended up today at 212. Pretty happy with that. 40 pounds, mostly muscle.

Will start clen next week, and Clomid and HCG 3 weeks after my last shot of Deca and Sust.

I'll let you guys know what I end up cutting down too. Going to start my oatmeal/protein diet next week.

**Pumped109** · 11-27-2002, 06:41 PM

Sweet, awsome results bro, definitly keep us posted.

**Ironbar** · 11-30-2002, 02:52 PM

Great results! I'm on a very similar cycle as yours, and have seen comprable gains as well. Keep up the good work!

**davidthebeast** · 12-02-2002, 01:57 PM

Thanks for the encouragement.

Weight today: 205

I think I'm losing some water, which is fine. I took a diuretic pill over the weekend anyway. Feels good not to be bloated quite as much.

Clen is working fine so far, giving me some good energy.

BTW, my measurements increased as follows:

Neck 1.5"
Chest 3"

Shoulders 3"

Biceps 1/4 to 1/2"
Calves 1/2"
Waist 1.5"

But that will go away soon I think.

I may do another cycle early next year exactly like I did this time because I had such good results. I'll keep you posted as I keep cutting down. I'm on 2 weeks Clen/2 weeks ECA right now and eating Dark/Alevok's diet (chicken/salmon, tuna, oatmeal, protein shakes, little veggie).

**cve80373** · 12-31-2002, 06:06 AM

Good stuff mate!
Well done!

Keep us posted!

**davidthebeast** · 01-17-2003, 12:37 PM

I ended up at 215 pounds today.

My post cycle therapy worked well. So, I lost no weight, but I did lose a little bit of strength, at least on bench, but not much. Next time I would skip the clen because it's too expensive, and the Thermo-Cuts by Omninutrition worked better, gave me a better pump and are way cheaper. I like the Thermo-cuts because it's half the regular doseage of ephedrine, so I only take 2 when I really want to. One bad thing: lots of zits, probably from all the Sust I shot.

Going to the dermatologist though to hopefully get some Accutane.
Is it OK to take Accutane while on a cycle as below??

Started a new cycle today after 2 months off:

Weeks 1-3: 20 mg dbol
Weeks 4-6: 30 mg dbol
Week 7-8: 50 mg anadrol
Weeks 1-3: 250-300 mg Sust
Weeks 4-5: 400 mg Deca
Weeks 6-8: 250 mg Equipoise
Weeks 3-8: 20 mg Nolvadex

I'm trying to get to 250.

Clomid, HCG , Nolvadex, the rest of my clen, and thermos for post cycle.

I know it's kind of a hodgepodge with the injectables, but it's the leftovers from my last cycle with a little Eq added. I figured the Deca and Eq at the end hopefully will harden up the gains.

Any comments?

**Reality** · 04-29-2003, 12:31 PM

2.5 hrs is too long at the gym imho

**OVG** · 04-30-2003, 06:44 PM

Great job in the gains department. Iwould suggest not starting a cycle like the one you have now. Too many things for too little time. Just my 2 cents though.