Twelve weeks Test-e + Dbol kickstart - I came I saw I conquered. 10/1/11 => 15/05/11.

[DKbuilder]

Thank god Marcus can see this.

Flex, I think just bc you write things out doesnt mean you know more than any other kid, and honestly all youre doing is talking in circles and being a hypocrite. You said it yourself, "I wouldnt advise anyone under 25 to use gear", THEN you go on to say "I know the risks and im going to do what I want" (esentially), bc honestly thats what you ARE saying. Its absurd that youre going to post a log at all and youre having "crazy pumps" 3 whopping injections in. THATS the difference between someone who KNOWS what they're talking about, and someone whos just THINKING they do bc they read alot. The sad part is youre going to post how you gained 20-30lbs, other kids will see this, and jump on the bandwagon. The thing is, you are going to lose it all but 5lbs probably. I say that bc you THINK you hit your genetic plateau at 19 and 2 years into lifting. You are well written but sadly you are no different than any other kid who comes on here saying " I eat alot and I cant gain size so im doing steroids". I write all this now so that others reading will hopefully read what I have written and can see through your closed minded hypocritical thought process.

Bold - how will he lose almost all gains? Isn't that decided upon his dedication, training, diet and genetics? You can't state something like that. I don't say he will lose it all but I don't say he will keep it either. How the **** do we know?

[vettewreck]

Im basing it on the fact that hes 19 and 175lbs. He simply doesnt have a base to sustain the gains. IMO, that should be common sense.

[Cacu]

Flex,

You sound like a smart young man. You've obviously taken the time to be methodical about cycling. The issue here isn't that you aren't capable of doing a cycle correctly, but rather that your desire to use gear is a bit premature.
You have more T-esters in your ball sack than any two board vets combined. Training and nutrition will bring out what you need. In your case, the risks are WAY TOO high for the reward.

There are dozens of great programs and info out there for training. Art Devany, Robb Wolf, especially Rippetoe. With Rips program, at your age, unless you have an aversion to eating, you can pack on massive quality gains.

On the matter of these "experts" that are flaming you. Brush it off, a couple of them came at me when I simply asked questions about cycling. You can always recognize them because they don't offer specific advice, just try to shout you down with insults.
They are keyboard ninjas, just move on and forget about them.

Hope for the best, but I bid you to train hard and dial in your nutrition. Do Starting Strength and GOMAD for 5 years. You will grow and when you are ready to cycle, your soft tissue, skeletal system, and endocrine system will be humming and ready. Otherwise, you are risking a disability.

Godspeed.

[stephenc28]

be real keen to see how it goes. regarding him posting gains already(i may be wrong here) but dbol is very fast acting and well known to give fast gains and good pumps. hes been taking dbol every day so some prog would be expected.

[flexandex]

When your life as been consume with bodybuilding for over 20yrs rather than 2-3 you will realize that using steroids when your a teenager does have an adverse effect on your HPTA. Steroids disrupt the normal balance of hormones in the body which can cause reversible and irreversible changes at any age but risks are far more if you administrate exogenous androgens during development,you are still developing at 19yrs old and this will put you in a very unnatural environment at a crucial time of growth and development, your hormones should be treated with care especially in the early stages of maturity. The adverse effects can be erratic behaviour of the HPTA and potentially therapy when your older.

Its complete madness and irresponsible of you to think your answers are found within an injection or tablet at your age, I hope then younger members of this site are far more educated than yourself and see through this stupidity IMHO.

Good post. Theres nothing i can say that i haven't said before, thanks for your interest though. I respect you and your contribution to the community; so thanks, i guess?
I did notice you qoute a 19year old, similiar to me. I think your words were something along the lines of "age doesnt allways matter when it comes to advice, maturity and intelligence count aswell". This is the same 19year old who ran a cycle and recovered well. I guess hes full of the same stupidity i am.

all tht from a little wimp to afraid to put up pics, we can all see you've wriggled out of tht with stupid excuses. i dont give a shit what you think of my shape, im no bodybuilder, never was and never want to be. you prob cant even lift your dick out straight neva mind weights.i cant believe admin is allowing this arrogant little turd and his log to proceed, total hypocrisy, and opening the door to all the rest of the annoying little kids. can we ever have a mature only section this board because all it's gotten to is a creche.

if i do get banned then so be it, i can remember being repremanded for advising a 23yr old previously

Happy with your last word you silly old man?
I'll leave it at that, before you do get banned.

Well you seem to know all the dangers of what your doing. I know you heard the your to young speech 10000000000 times but your going to do what you want anyway. I say becarefull and continue to educate yourself. Its your life bro and your body.
I also want to say if its so bad for a 19 year old to cycle then why is he allowed to put up his cycle for all to see. Why not lock the thread then having 100 pages of people stating the same thing. Just my 2 cents

Freedom of speech i guess? I know man, its the same sentiment but theres nothing really else that can be said. Cheers though.

Thank god Marcus can see this.

Flex, I think just bc you write things out doesnt mean you know more than any other kid, and honestly all youre doing is talking in circles and being a hypocrite. You said it yourself, "I wouldnt advise anyone under 25 to use gear", THEN you go on to say "I know the risks and im going to do what I want" (esentially), bc honestly thats what you ARE saying. Its absurd that youre going to post a log at all and youre having "crazy pumps" 3 whopping injections in. THATS the difference between someone who KNOWS what they're talking about, and someone whos just THINKING they do bc they read alot. The sad part is youre going to post how you gained 20-30lbs, other kids will see this, and jump on the bandwagon. The thing is, you are going to lose it all but 5lbs probably. I say that bc you THINK you hit your genetic plateau at 19 and 2 years into lifting. You are well written but sadly you are no different than any other kid who comes on here saying " I eat alot and I cant gain size so im doing steroids". I write all this now so that others reading will hopefully read what I have written and can see through your closed minded hypocritical thought process.

Im basing it on the fact that hes 19 and 175lbs. He simply doesnt have a base to sustain the gains. IMO, that should be common sense.

Thanks for taking the time to put your thoughts in a more constructive manner. You've got a great physique so i respect what you have to say.

Although you still obviously just skimmed the top and saw i was 19. I am currently on a day11 of my dbol kickstart. Are you going to tell me that dbol doesn't illicit great pumps and almost instantaenous effects? The half life of dbol is 4 hours. I'm sure you know what that means in terms of of a timespan of effects.
I know for a fact i'm not at my genetic limit, not once have i said i was. Thats a stipulation you guys have with steroids, and thats fair enough. But its not for me. 175lbs shredded, on my frame, is a quality base. I won't argue it, because i'm not willing to back it up with pictures.
I'm sure you'll still be around when i'm 8weeks post, and 16weeks post.
Check back in then and we'll see wether i've lost 90% of my gains.

Flex,

You sound like a smart young man. You've obviously taken the time to be methodical about cycling. The issue here isn't that you aren't capable of doing a cycle correctly, but rather that your desire to use gear is a bit premature.
You have more T-esters in your ball sack than any two board vets combined. Training and nutrition will bring out what you need. In your case, the risks are WAY TOO high for the reward.

There are dozens of great programs and info out there for training. Art Devany, Robb Wolf, especially Rippetoe. With Rips program, at your age, unless you have an aversion to eating, you can pack on massive quality gains.

On the matter of these "experts" that are flaming you. Brush it off, a couple of them came at me when I simply asked questions about cycling. You can always recognize them because they don't offer specific advice, just try to shout you down with insults.
They are keyboard ninjas, just move on and forget about them.

Hope for the best, but I bid you to train hard and dial in your nutrition. Do Starting Strength and GOMAD for 5 years. You will grow and when you are ready to cycle, your soft tissue, skeletal system, and endocrine system will be humming and ready. Otherwise, you are risking a disability.

Godspeed.

I know man. I can easily weed out these parrots who do nothing but throw a few insults out. they are the same in every thread and are worthless in terms of a resource.
But the majority are still outrageously knowledgable and helpful. So thats why i'm here.


At the end of the day, this forum has a no flame policy. If the admin wants to enforce it and let the log continue, i'll be glad to and ill continue on.
Otherwise i'll have to shut up shop and you might see me floating around Q&A with my next infection, gyno and TRT questions.

[dec11]

Good post. Theres nothing i can say that i haven't said before, thanks for your interest though. I respect you and your contribution to the community; so thanks, i guess?
I did notice you qoute a 19year old, similiar to me. I think your words were something along the lines of "age doesnt allways matter when it comes to advice, maturity and intelligence count aswell". This is the same 19year old who ran a cycle and recovered well. I guess hes full of the same stupidity i am.


Happy with your last word you silly old man?
I'll leave it at that, before you do get banned.


Freedom of speech i guess? I know man, its the same sentiment but theres nothing really else that can be said. Cheers though.



Thanks for taking the time to put your thoughts in a more constructive manner. You've got a great physique so i respect what you have to say.

Although you still obviously just skimmed the top and saw i was 19. I am currently on a day11 of my dbol kickstart. Are you going to tell me that dbol doesn't illicit great pumps and almost instantaenous effects? The half life of dbol is 4 hours. I'm sure you know what that means in terms of of a timespan of effects.
I know for a fact i'm not at my genetic limit, not once have i said i was. Thats a stipulation you guys have with steroids , and thats fair enough. But its not for me. 175lbs shredded, on my frame, is a quality base. I won't argue it, because i'm not willing to back it up with pictures.
I'm sure you'll still be around when i'm 8weeks post, and 16weeks post.
Check back in then and we'll see wether i've lost 90% of my gains.


I know man. I can easily weed out these parrots who do nothing but throw a few insults out. they are the same in every thread and are worthless in terms of a resource.
But the majority are still outrageously knowledgable and helpful. So thats why i'm here.


At the end of the day, this forum has a no flame policy. If the admin wants to enforce it and let the log continue, i'll be glad to and ill continue on.
Otherwise i'll have to shut up shop and you might see me floating around Q&A with my next infection, gyno and TRT questions.

you'd want to take that on board yourself kiddo.
you arent mature enough to use powerful drugs, another typical arrogant thinks he knows it all child, if admin bans me so be it. this lifestyle isnt for teenie boppers. i will never stand by crap like this and this log SHOULDNT be entertained on this board and im not the only one who thinks that. your a stupid delusional childand i hope you get whats coming to you.

[dec11]

Good post. Theres nothing i can say that i haven't said before, thanks for your interest though. I respect you and your contribution to the community; so thanks, i guess?
I did notice you qoute a 19year old, similiar to me. I think your words were something along the lines of "age doesnt allways matter when it comes to advice, maturity and intelligence count aswell". This is the same 19year old who ran a cycle and recovered well. I guess hes full of the same stupidity i am.


Happy with your last word you silly old man?
I'll leave it at that, before you do get banned.


Freedom of speech i guess? I know man, its the same sentiment but theres nothing really else that can be said. Cheers though.



Thanks for taking the time to put your thoughts in a more constructive manner. You've got a great physique so i respect what you have to say.

Although you still obviously just skimmed the top and saw i was 19. I am currently on a day11 of my dbol kickstart. Are you going to tell me that dbol doesn't illicit great pumps and almost instantaenous effects? The half life of dbol is 4 hours. I'm sure you know what that means in terms of of a timespan of effects.
I know for a fact i'm not at my genetic limit, not once have i said i was. Thats a stipulation you guys have with steroids , and thats fair enough. But its not for me. 175lbs shredded, on my frame, is a quality base. I won't argue it, because i'm not willing to back it up with pictures. I'm sure you'll still be around when i'm 8weeks post, and 16weeks post.
Check back in then and we'll see wether i've lost 90% of my gains.


I know man. I can easily weed out these parrots who do nothing but throw a few insults out. they are the same in every thread and are worthless in terms of a resource.
But the majority are still outrageously knowledgable and helpful. So thats why i'm here.


At the end of the day, this forum has a no flame policy. If the admin wants to enforce it and let the log continue, i'll be glad to and ill continue on.
Otherwise i'll have to shut up shop and you might see me floating around Q&A with my next infection, gyno and TRT questions.

the lies begin already...........

[flexandex]

you'd want to take that on board yourself kiddo.
you arent mature enough to use powerful drugs, another typical arrogant thinks he knows it all child, if admin bans me so be it. this lifestyle isnt for teenie boppers. i will never stand by crap like this and this log SHOULDNT be entertained on this board and im not the only one who thinks that. your a stupid delusional childand i hope you get whats coming to you.

Its up to the mods+admin to decide what flys on this site, not you. If they want me to remove it, i will.
Or best case, your antagonistic posts will be deleted and we'll all live happier lives; including you.

the lies begin already...........

Date 1-05-2011
Stats:
19
172lbs
5'10
7% BF (bodpod adredited).

Honestly man, you're making a fool out of yourself. I feel sorry for you.
I will make this my last response to you. Reply to it and try to be as mature as you can.
I'll let you have the last word you so crave so much, and then we can both move on. sound good?

P.s. you can qoute 2 posts in 1 reply. its a valuable skill

[dec11]

Its up to the mods+admin to decide what flys on this site, not you. If they want me to remove it, i will.
Or best case, your antagonistic posts will be deleted and we'll all live happier lives; including you.

Date 1-05-2011
Stats:
19
172lbs
5'10
7% BF (bodpod adredited).

Honestly man, you're making a fool out of yourself. I feel sorry for you.
I will make this my last response to you. Reply to it and try to be as mature as you can.
I'll let you have the last word you so crave so much, and then we can both move on. sound good?

P.s. you can qoute 2 posts in 1 reply. its a valuable skill

i enjoy spreading it out for you sonny
qoute? spelling, its a valuable skill

[vettewreck]

Honestly man, you're making a fool out of yourself. I feel sorry for you.

Other way around man. Youve done nothing but contradict yourself in your very own thread over and over again. The more educated ppl will see this. Carry on with your log....

[stevey_6t9]

Good post. Theres nothing i can say that i haven't said before, thanks for your interest though. I respect you and your contribution to the community; so thanks, i guess?
I did notice you qoute a 19year old, similiar to me. I think your words were something along the lines of "age doesnt allways matter when it comes to advice, maturity and intelligence count aswell". This is the same 19year old who ran a cycle and recovered well. I guess hes full of the same stupidity i am.

Since this is some what orientated around me i feel obliged to bring some in-depth behind the scenes light into it for you.

Yes, i did theoretically recover in the normal ranges according to the lab, however my 4 months post pct test came back at around 8nmol/l, which if you search my previous threads is lower then my initial pre cycle (11-12nmol/ levels- tested twice.)

Now yes i may have recovered just in the norms which is considered by many as 'recovered', but having that reduced testosterone levels will hamper me in future gaining naturally even if its a few points, now that was just 1 cycle of test at 600mg wk.

Im not really close with any members here, frankly i dont give two fuks about half of them, though 2 members here im am close with who live in aus also, one being mr_rose, hes already on trt (20yo) from cycling, and big_ron (21) also is looking for TRT docs, couple weeks ago another syd member my age pmd if i know any good docs around here to get on TRT after just 2 cycles... not to mention another member my age from melb who is on self prescribed trt now... it does happen man, just non of the bros at the gym talk about it because they dont get bloodwork and have to big egos to say there erections aren't the same.

[dec11]

Since this is some what orientated around me i feel obliged to bring some in-depth behind the scenes light into it for you.

Yes, i did theoretically recover in the normal ranges according to the lab, however my 4 months post pct test came back at around 8nmol/l, which if you search my previous threads is lower then my initial pre cycle (11-12nmol/ levels- tested twice.)

Now yes i may have recovered just in the norms which is considered by many as 'recovered', but having that reduced testosterone levels will hamper me in future gaining naturally even if its a few points, now that was just 1 cycle of test at 600mg wk.

Im not really close with any members here, frankly i dont give two fuks about half of them, though 2 members here im am close with who live in aus also, one being mr_rose, hes already on trt (20yo) from cycling, and big_ron (21) also is looking for TRT docs, couple weeks ago another syd member my age pmd if i know any good docs around here to get on TRT after just 2 cycles... not to mention another member my age from melb who is on self prescribed trt now... it does happen man, just non of the bros at the gym talk about it because they dont get bloodwork and have to big egos to say there erections aren't the same.

now that is a good post, fair play stevey.

[terraj]

Stevey is even starting to win me over.....

[MACHINE5150]

Im basing it on the fact that hes 19 and 175lbs. He simply doesnt have a base to sustain the gains. IMO, that should be common sense.

I was 19 when i did my first cycle.. went from 200lbs to 200 and stayed there.. i kept everything.. minus a few pounds of water weight... but i was drinking a gallon of milk a day as well as eating four large meals and two protein shakes a day.. I lived in the dorms at college and got all the food i could ever want.. NOW my test levels are lower than they shouldd be, but not soo low to warrant TRT...


VETTEWRECK - As much as we disagree with this kid doing this, getting upset/angry about it is not going to help, and i would hate to see you get banned by Admin over flamign someone who is not going to listen, as your constructive advice will be taken whole heartedly by countless others on other threads

[dec11]

Flex,

You sound like a smart young man. You've obviously taken the time to be methodical about cycling. The issue here isn't that you aren't capable of doing a cycle correctly, but rather that your desire to use gear is a bit premature.
You have more T-esters in your ball sack than any two board vets combined. Training and nutrition will bring out what you need. In your case, the risks are WAY TOO high for the reward.

There are dozens of great programs and info out there for training. Art Devany, Robb Wolf, especially Rippetoe. With Rips program, at your age, unless you have an aversion to eating, you can pack on massive quality gains.

On the matter of these "experts" that are flaming you. Brush it off, a couple of them came at me when I simply asked questions about cycling. You can always recognize them because they don't offer specific advice, just try to shout you down with insults.
They are keyboard ninjas, just move on and forget about them.

Hope for the best, but I bid you to train hard and dial in your nutrition. Do Starting Strength and GOMAD for 5 years. You will grow and when you are ready to cycle, your soft tissue, skeletal system, and endocrine system will be humming and ready. Otherwise, you are risking a disability.

Godspeed.

@dec11 -

Great to have you on the boards.
Well then, what do you think of my cycle plans?

Anavar Pyramiding up to 50-60mg a day then back down Wk 1-8.
Test Prop. as a base ~150mg/WK Week 1-8
Novaldex Week 1-8 Gynomas protection
HCG - Week 1-8 Ballsack health and fitness
PCT - Clomid Wk 8-9. Bringing it back online.

I may drop the Test altogether and have a little less PCT to do.


you seemed to appreciate me on your thread? you have to understand that this thread and log goes against safe cycling and if you stick around here long enough you will see how eternally stupid, arrogant and annoying some of these adolescents are. now, if you want to discuss anything more feel free to pm me or talk on tht thread you were running, im prob in for a ban or suspension as it is and dont want to give the little creep anymore satisfaction by commenting here.

[vettewreck]

I was 19 when i did my first cycle.. went from 200lbs to 200 and stayed there.. i kept everything.. minus a few pounds of water weight... but i was drinking a gallon of milk a day as well as eating four large meals and two protein shakes a day.. I lived in the dorms at college and got all the food i could ever want.. NOW my test levels are lower than they shouldd be, but not soo low to warrant TRT...


VETTEWRECK - As much as we disagree with this kid doing this, getting upset/angry about it is not going to help, and i would hate to see you get banned by Admin over flamign someone who is not going to listen, as your constructive advice will be taken whole heartedly by countless others on other threads

Im not mad, angry or upset. I just simply hate it when people contradict themselves then want to post a log about it bc all its going to do is brainwash the young less knowledgeable members into thinking its ok. This kid is one of the worst examples to be posting a log. Hes a know it all, yet agrees with everyone who tells him not to use, a hypocrit, then contradicts himself. And remember Machine, theres a huuuge difference between 200lbs and 175. IMO, 200lbs is a good/great base to start with, while 175 is nothing and thats why I stated he doesnt have a base to sustain more than half of his gains he will get. Get me?

[flexandex]

Week 3 update:

Everything is still chugging along nicely. Got all my injection and gear protocol under control now and its just another lil chore to add to the day.
For week 3-4 i'll be going with 40mg dbol per day, hopefully i don't see any sides from that increase, if i do, i'll reduce it back.
So far i've had zero acne / 'roidrage' (lol), nothing really. A definite sense of wellbeing, wether thats placebo or not i couldn't tell you.
Had my 6th injection and mixed up my 5000iu HCG which i'll take at 250x2 PW untill week 12. Just a lil sub-q injection for that one, painless and simple.

Diet is in check and training is going well, looking at around 10% increase on most lifts. Great pumps in the gym, really loving it.

Took measurements about 1 1/2hours post workout, after my post workout meal etc. Probably not the best idea in terms of accuracy, but i'm sure over the 12weeks itll average out nicely into a upward trend.

Deffinitely feel like im looking bigger and better so far, everything going well, motivation is still 10/10.
I'll be back for my week 4 update if nothing pressing comes up before then!

[HALTEH]

My two cents..

I think everyone is being a little harsh on the OP. I mean, there are hundreds of threads (yes, hundreds) he could find all over the internet that try and beware teens of using AAS. I'm sure he's read many many many of them too.

I'm not in any way condoning the use of anabolics in the teenage years. I myself am only twenty, and will be starting the same cycle (without the HCG and A-Dex) in about two weeks.

No, I'm not backing him up for that reason, but if someone has done their research, admitted they are aware of the dangers, then all the power to them. Reading through this thread, sure he's young, and has a few witty combacks (I dont see why he shouldnt? He's getting bashed like crazy), he still seems to have done his research, and far more of it than the majority of people on these forums. I dont have many posts, but i've been lurking for a damn long time. So easy with the "stfu and look at your posts" comebacks when replying to this.

That being said ... what if this kid wanted to become an IFBB pro one day and had the potential to do so? You think any of the pros waiting 'till they were 26 "because it was safe"? **** no. Phil Heath was on the Olympia stage at 28.

Again, i'm not encouraging teens using them, but by all means, if someone has done their research, and they KNOW this is what they want ... god himself ain't gonna' stop 'em, trust me.

No arguments intended here. I just don't agree with all the "adults" acting all egotisical.

[Freewizzle]

Flexandex I think its funny how we get bashed when we are younger cosidering most of these people started young and now are addicted. Im pretty sure you are like me and only are going to do 1-2 cycles and be done with it. I think all the older folks on this website need to watch the documentary bigger stronger faster then tell us that we are in the wrong. The funny thing is that your balls dont shrink to all people from doing the research I did. We have better risk taking vietamen C than we do taking gear. If your balls do shrink they dont shrink for eternity it goes away after you get off the gear. I have done much research and heard many stories. O and my last question is why is it 16 that we can start body building? Im kind of confused why we get bashed so much and why people think its so wrong for kids 16-20 to take it when the side affects are the same for everyone.

[flexandex]

My two cents..

I think everyone is being a little harsh on the OP. I mean, there are hundreds of threads (yes, hundreds) he could find all over the internet that try and beware teens of using AAS. I'm sure he's read many many many of them too.

I'm not in any way condoning the use of anabolics in the teenage years. I myself am only twenty, and will be starting the same cycle (without the HCG and A-Dex) in about two weeks.

No, I'm not backing him up for that reason, but if someone has done their research, admitted they are aware of the dangers, then all the power to them. Reading through this thread, sure he's young, and has a few witty combacks (I dont see why he shouldnt? He's getting bashed like crazy), he still seems to have done his research, and far more of it than the majority of people on these forums. I dont have many posts, but i've been lurking for a damn long time. So easy with the "stfu and look at your posts" comebacks when replying to this.

That being said ... what if this kid wanted to become an IFBB pro one day and had the potential to do so? You think any of the pros waiting 'till they were 26 "because it was safe"? **** no. Phil Heath was on the Olympia stage at 28.

Again, i'm not encouraging teens using them, but by all means, if someone has done their research, and they KNOW this is what they want ... god himself ain't gonna' stop 'em, trust me.

No arguments intended here. I just don't agree with all the "adults" acting all egotisical.

No a-dex, what are you using for an AI if its needed? aromasin ?
Just wanted to point out that the argument about someoneone like an IFBB pro starting early is flawed. It really makes no difference to them, the amount of gear and timeframes they run it at really shuts down any chance of them having a normal endocrine system again. So the heighetened risks of messing up your HPTA is negligible to them.
All of these guys have their heart in the right place, some are just a bit arogant and go about it the wrong way. Its no skin off my nose..
Keep me posted on your cycle man.

Flexandex I think its funny how we get bashed when we are younger cosidering most of these people started young and now are addicted. Im pretty sure you are like me and only are going to do 1-2 cycles and be done with it. I think all the older folks on this website need to watch the documentary bigger stronger faster then tell us that we are in the wrong. The funny thing is that your balls dont shrink to all people from doing the research I did. We have better risk taking vietamen C than we do taking gear. If your balls do shrink they dont shrink for eternity it goes away after you get off the gear. I have done much research and heard many stories. O and my last question is why is it 16 that we can start body building? Im kind of confused why we get bashed so much and why people think its so wrong for kids 16-20 to take it when the side affects are the same for everyone.

The logic behind waiting untill 21 at the bare minimum and 25 preferably has to do with the developement of your endorcine system.
If you can imagine stopping it midway in its developement - and then starting it back up again, any number of things can go wrong.
The risks are present for both 18year olds and 40year olds, however they are more pronounced at our age. I would argue the benefits are aswell, and therfore the risk vs reward still works out.

The point is, if you are thinking about steroids at a young age. you fcking better have every other aspect of it downpact before you get started as you are already at a disadvantage.

[terraj]

The logic behind waiting untill 21 at the bare minimum and 25 preferably has to do with the developement of your endorcine system.
If you can imagine stopping it midway in its developement - and then starting it back up again, any number of things can go wrong.
The risks are present for both 18year olds and 40year olds, however they are more pronounced at our age. I would argue the benefits are aswell, and therfore the risk vs reward still works out.

The point is, if you are thinking about steroids at a young age. you fcking better have every other aspect of it downpact before you get started as you are already at a disadvantage.

Also a big concern for the youger user is the closing over of growth plates in long bones, stunted growth.

I got this from a doctor-

We can give you the ossification of few of the important bones. .

Femur:
The 3 epiphyses/growth plates at upper end fuse at 18years
The 1 epiphysis/growth plate at lower end fuse at 20 years

Tibia:
Upper end fuses at 16-18 years
Lower end fuses at 15-17 years

Humerus:
Upper end during 20th year
Lower end at about 16 years

Radius:
Upper end during 18th year
Lower end at 20 years

Funny how taking steroids at a young age can have the opposite of the desired effect huh. But I guess the OP knew this....

[Freewizzle]

Ha ha most def dude 100% agree with you!! I understand there are risk but there is risk for me going out and driving my car on the highway. Its just how risky we want to get. I am going to keep in touch with you considering we are same age and I am starting my test next tuesday no matter what. I hope everything goes well for you man and I will be following your documentary and thread.

[dec11]

Ha ha most def dude 100% agree with you!! I understand there are risk but there is risk for me going out and driving my car on the highway. Its just how risky we want to get. I am going to keep in touch with you considering we are same age and I am starting my test next tuesday no matter what. I hope everything goes well for you man and I will be following your documentary and thread.

stupid comparison, you're hardly likely to deliberately crash your car, are you now?

[HALTEH]

No a-dex, what are you using for an AI if its needed? aromasin ?
Just wanted to point out that the argument about someoneone like an IFBB pro starting early is flawed. It really makes no difference to them, the amount of gear and timeframes they run it at really shuts down any chance of them having a normal endocrine system again. So the heighetened risks of messing up your HPTA is negligible to them.
All of these guys have their heart in the right place, some are just a bit arogant and go about it the wrong way. Its no skin off my nose..
Keep me posted on your cycle man.

to be honest, I'm not even gonna lie and make myself look good. I didn't get an AI. I wasn't planning on using one, but it's always better to be safe than sorry, so i'll most likely grab one before I start up with the cycle. I don't think I'll run it right from the begininng though - I'll probably just have it on hand in case gyno comes up, or bloating becomes far too out of hand. I've never run a cycle before, so I don't know what I'm prone to yet. Arimidex seems best. Is there a reason you chose that over Aromasin? I know Letro will be far too powerful for just a Test/Dianabol cycle.

[dec11]

My two cents..

I think everyone is being a little harsh on the OP. I mean, there are hundreds of threads (yes, hundreds) he could find all over the internet that try and beware teens of using AAS. I'm sure he's read many many many of them too.

I'm not in any way condoning the use of anabolics in the teenage years. I myself am only twenty, and will be starting the same cycle (without the HCG and A-Dex) in about two weeks.

No, I'm not backing him up for that reason, but if someone has done their research, admitted they are aware of the dangers, then all the power to them. Reading through this thread, sure he's young, and has a few witty combacks (I dont see why he shouldnt? He's getting bashed like crazy), he still seems to have done his research, and far more of it than the majority of people on these forums. I dont have many posts, but i've been lurking for a damn long time. So easy with the "stfu and look at your posts" comebacks when replying to this.

That being said ... what if this kid wanted to become an IFBB pro one day and had the potential to do so? You think any of the pros waiting 'till they were 26 "because it was safe"? **** no. Phil Heath was on the Olympia stage at 28.

Again, i'm not encouraging teens using them, but by all means, if someone has done their research, and they KNOW this is what they want ... god himself ain't gonna' stop 'em, trust me.

No arguments intended here. I just don't agree with all the "adults" acting all egotisical.

thts because you arent one yet and cant be told anything

[Freewizzle]

stupid comparison, you're hardly likely to deliberately crash your car, are you now?

Sorry dude I guess I wasnt going for a comparison I was just saying an example: Why do you keep bashing kids seriously man its kind of annoying. If you got something cool say it and if you dont just dont man. Like its kind of stupid that you cant back up your research but you can diss me on a comparison. Im sorry but I dont mean to be a dick just stop bashing and let it go!

[HALTEH]

thts because you arent one yet and cant be told anything

Whatever, man. A heads up is one thing, but contstantly ripping into him isn't gonna do anything except make him wanna piss you off more (probably by going through with the cycle). If you really cared, you wouldn't all be cock-heads about it.

Like I said, I doubt anyone is gonna be able to change anyones mind when it comes to Anabolics. If someone is set on it, they're set on it. And in this case, I'm confident he knows what he's in for. That's all. It's not like he hasnt prepared himself for the consequences.

[DKbuilder]

Okay guys - please shut the FUK up now. Your endless ranting on how he should not do it should stop right now. You are wasting your time and you have spent 3 pages on it, just drop it. I have no comment on his age since it's his own decision. Let Flex post in half a year and let's see how it goes by then AND UNTIL THEN stop trying to win him over.

[SexyBigpapapump]

Why feed the troll? hes clearly ****n with us he has no pics or anything? and its a hilarious log were he thinks hes gunna grow everyday but his arms chest shoulders and everything stay the same size because hes injecting rat piss in him cause he bought them off a guy in a alley lol

[flexandex]

Also a big concern for the youger user is the closing over of growth plates in long bones, stunted growth.

I got this from a doctor-

We can give you the ossification of few of the important bones. .

Femur:
The 3 epiphyses/growth plates at upper end fuse at 18years
The 1 epiphysis/growth plate at lower end fuse at 20 years

Tibia:
Upper end fuses at 16-18 years
Lower end fuses at 15-17 years

Humerus:
Upper end during 20th year
Lower end at about 16 years

Radius:
Upper end during 18th year
Lower end at 20 years

Funny how taking steroids at a young age can have the opposite of the desired effect huh. But I guess the OP knew this....

Not sure if you're being sarcastic or not, of course i knew this. Guess you still think im an ignorant dumbass.
I actually went and conned my doc into getting me an insurance-covered appointment with a radiologist under the guise of a ankle injury. My growth plates were fully closed. My father is rather short, 5'4 and my mother only 5'5, i was extremely lucky to reach 5'10!!

Ha ha most def dude 100% agree with you!! I understand there are risk but there is risk for me going out and driving my car on the highway. Its just how risky we want to get. I am going to keep in touch with you considering we are same age and I am starting my test next tuesday no matter what. I hope everything goes well for you man and I will be following your documentary and thread.

To be honest i don't know wether you're a troll or not, if you really are going to go ahead with your cycle then i'd lose all respect for you and any 'reasearch' you claim to have. If i'm being brutal, you are the type of young user that gives us a bad name.
You are wasting your time and money starting your test man. I'd prefer it if you didn't start more flame wars in my thread, just PM me if you want to chat.
Thanks.

to be honest, I'm not even gonna lie and make myself look good. I didn't get an AI. I wasn't planning on using one, but it's always better to be safe than sorry, so i'll most likely grab one before I start up with the cycle. I don't think I'll run it right from the begininng though - I'll probably just have it on hand in case gyno comes up, or bloating becomes far too out of hand. I've never run a cycle before, so I don't know what I'm prone to yet. Arimidex seems best. Is there a reason you chose that over Aromasin? I know Letro will be far too powerful for just a Test/Dianabol cycle.

Deffinitely get an AI, its very cheap and you won't regret it. A small dose of 0.25 at every pin day is what i am following even though i haven't had any signs of gyno, bloating or acne. If signs appear, i'll up the dose.

Why feed the troll? hes clearly ****n with us he has no pics or anything? and its a hilarious log were he thinks hes gunna grow everyday but his arms chest shoulders and everything stay the same size because hes injecting rat piss in him cause he bought them off a guy in a alley lol

Pathetic troll post, i'll report it to admin, enjoy your ban.

Just as an aside, i apreciate the support from you guys. Theres no need to start any more fighting over age, its been done and dusted. Haleth etc, just drop it and enjoy the log. cheers guys.

[dec11]

Not sure if you're being sarcastic or not, of course i knew this. Guess you still think im an ignorant dumbass.
I actually went and conned my doc into getting me an insurance-covered appointment with a radiologist under the guise of a ankle injury. My growth plates were fully closed. My father is rather short, 5'4 and my mother only 5'5, i was extremely lucky to reach 5'10!!


To be honest i don't know wether you're a troll or not, if you really are going to go ahead with your cycle then i'd lose all respect for you and any 'reasearch' you claim to have. If i'm being brutal, you are the type of young user that gives us a bad name.
You are wasting your time and money starting your test man. I'd prefer it if you didn't start more flame wars in my thread, just PM me if you want to chat.
Thanks.

Deffinitely get an AI, its very cheap and you won't regret it. A small dose of 0.25 at every pin day is what i am following even though i haven't had any signs of gyno, bloating or acne. If signs appear, i'll up the dose.


Pathetic troll post, i'll report it to admin, enjoy your ban.

Just as an aside, i apreciate the support from you guys. Theres no need to start any more fighting over age, its been done and dusted. Haleth etc, just drop it and enjoy the log. cheers guys.

wrong, you take an ai IF you get signs of sides. continue with your log by all means but dont give inaccurate advice if you dont know what you are doing yourself, the other impressionable youngsters are taking it all in...........

[terraj]

correct^^ that is common sense...only add chemicals that you need.

[HALTEH]

wrong, you take an ai IF you get signs of sides. continue with your log by all means but dont give inaccurate advice if you dont know what you are doing yourself, the other impressionable youngsters are taking it all in...........

Thank you. Besides all of the arguing, I appreiciate the honest advice.

Question though .. if I were to get an AI, and I was only gonna use A-Dex (we'll use in this example), would I be taking 0.25mg only on pin days like he said? Or 0.25 everyday until side effects subside?

[dec11]

Thank you. Besides all of the arguing, I appreiciate the honest advice.

Question though .. if I were to get an AI, and I was only gonna use A-Dex (we'll use in this example), would I be taking 0.25mg only on pin days like he said? Or 0.25 everyday until side effects subside?

i dont advise young users. sorry

[*Admin*]

all tht from a little wimp to afraid to put up pics, we can all see you've wriggled out of tht with stupid excuses. i dont give a shit what you think of my shape, im no bodybuilder, never was and never want to be. you prob cant even lift your dick out straight neva mind weights.i cant believe admin is allowing this arrogant little turd and his log to proceed, total hypocrisy, and opening the door to all the rest of the annoying little kids. can we ever have a mature only section this board because all it's gotten to is a creche.

if i do get banned then so be it, i can remember being reprimanded for advising a 23yr old previously

You will not be banned for speaking your mind on this.... however if you flame him you would...

Now as for questioning me for doing my job I am sorry you do not agree... however there is no rule stating that people can not post here... as long as they are 18 years of age they can post... and as long as they follow the rules I can not say do not post... now do I agree with everything posted here... I should say not... can I stop him from harming himself... no

He has been told the dangers and chooses not to heed that warning... that is all anyone can do... as for others coming to this thread and saying wow he did it so I am going to... well that is their stupidity... and their choice...

For every one of these type threads we have many more stating the dangers and have people telling how they regret doing what he is doing... but lets not state things and badger people to death about them... it is the same as telling someone the dangers of smoking or drinking... they will not believe you/us they will still drink and still smoke and later down the road have their regrets... (btw I am not talking in moderation) however they have been warned and no matter how much talking they continue as well...

NOW do I agree that he is doing the best thing for himself NO but he is the one later in life that will say they told me so... however he will not come here and admit it we all know that and so does any other kid that comes here doing the same thing or reading this...

Yes we have that few that have started at 16 and have done great but they have stories to tell but never will they tell of the horrors they endured over the years or the waiting to see if they would ever be a father let alone have a normal sex life...


YES I have my opinions and have alot I could say but I will not waste my time on someone who has already stated they didn't want to hear good advice just want to here what they want to hear so leave him to his own demise...



One more thing he could have just came back lied about his age and not had this problem which is what most young guys do when they encounter this... I feel sure without knowing you have as have all advised many kids to do things that they should not because they are going to do what they want no matter what advice they get good bad or otherwise...


Also remember one day he will remember back and say yeah he told me so but I wouldn't listen... if I had a dollar for every-time someone said they wish they had listened I would be a rich man...

[dec11]

You will not be banned for speaking your mind on this.... however if you flame him you would...

Now as for questioning me for doing my job I am sorry you do not agree... however there is no rule stating that people can not post here... as long as they are 18 years of age they can post... and as long as they follow the rules I can not say do not post... now do I agree with everything posted here... I should say not... can I stop him from harming himself... no

He has been told the dangers and chooses not to heed that warning... that is all anyone can do... as for others coming to this thread and saying wow he did it so I am going to... well that is their stupidity... and their choice...

For every one of these type threads we have many more stating the dangers and have people telling how they regret doing what he is doing... but lets not state things and badger people to death about them... it is the same as telling someone the dangers of smoking or drinking... they will not believe you/us they will still drink and still smoke and later down the road have their regrets... (btw I am not talking in moderation) however they have been warned and no matter how much talking they continue as well...

NOW do I agree that he is doing the best thing for himself NO but he is the one later in life that will say they told me so... however he will not come here and admit it we all know that and so does any other kid that comes here doing the same thing or reading this...

Yes we have that few that have started at 16 and have done great but they have stories to tell but never will they tell of the horrors they endured over the years or the waiting to see if they would ever be a father let alone have a normal sex life...


YES I have my opinions and have alot I could say but I will not waste my time on someone who has already stated they didn't want to hear good advice just want to here what they want to hear so leave him to his own demise...



One more thing he could have just came back lied about his age and not had this problem which is what most young guys do when they encounter this... I feel sure without knowing you have as have all advised many kids to do things that they should not because they are going to do what they want no matter what advice they get good bad or otherwise...


Also remember one day he will remember back and say yeah he told me so but I wouldn't listen... if I had a dollar for every-time someone said they wish they had listened I would be a rich man...

fair enough, i apologise for my temper on some of these posts. i felt this log was encouragement to other kids but you are right you cant stop them regardless, i thought that the less they see of younger users experiences the less they'd be inclined to try, doing away with the 'it didnt harm this guy' approach, 'look at his log'. they seem to only see the limp dick type sides and never think of the things like severe depression brought on by a malfunctioning hpta, the mental repercussions can be alot more devastating than being embarrased infront of some girl. as much as some of them bug me i'd hate for any of em to end up with that type of depression, im sure some here can relate, its a horrible thing to go through and would be very taxing on a young man.

[flexandex]

wrong, you take an ai IF you get signs of sides. continue with your log by all means but dont give inaccurate advice if you dont know what you are doing yourself, the other impressionable youngsters are taking it all in...........

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...t-is-it/page10
Post 374.

Edit: another thread i made with the same question: http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...ar.&highlight=

There is conflicting schools of thought on wether to run a-dex either from the beginning or only as sides appear, tbh i'm happy to rely on swiftos advice. Hes pretty ridiculously intelligent.
Its on swifto's advice that i decided to run a preventative dose of arimidex . If you want to take that up with him.. christ.. god help you.

correct^^ that is common sense...only add chemicals that you need.

An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

[dec11]

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...t-is-it/page10
Post 374.

Edit: another thread i made with the same question: http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...ar.&highlight=

There is conflicting schools of thought on wether to run a-dex either from the beginning or only as sides appear, tbh i'm happy to rely on swiftos advice. Hes pretty ridiculously intelligent.
Its on swifto's advice that i decided to run a preventative dose of arimidex . If you want to take that up with him.. christ.. god help you.


An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

i cant imagine swifto knowingly advising and 19yr old. alot of ppl do not get estro sides, how would you ever know you're prone if you blindly take adex and why would you need it if you're not prone?
i'll believe he stated that, if i see swifto posting it

[flexandex]

i cant imagine swifto knowingly advising and 19yr old. alot of ppl do not get estro sides, how would you ever know you're prone if you blindly take adex and why would you need it if you're not prone?
i'll believe he stated that, if i see swifto posting it

Not everyone is as arogant and hard headed as you are, my friend.

The drawbacks to taking a small dose of a-dex are very small. A good percentage of AAS users follow the protocol of a preventative dose - is it really mindblowing that there is more than one school of thought on the matter?
Atleast you learnt something in this thread eh? A small dose of a-dex as a preventative measure is a perfectly acceptable option.

[dec11]

Not everyone is as arogant and hard headed as you are, my friend.

The drawbacks to taking a small dose of a-dex are very small. A good percentage of AAS users follow the protocol of a preventative dose - is it really mindblowing that there is more than one school of thought on the matter?
Atleast you learnt something in this thread eh? A small dose of a-dex as a preventative measure is a perfectly acceptable option.

you really need to look up tht word arrogant in a dictionary and learn how to use it correctly. using powerful drugs unnecessarily is stupid.

now, i couldnt care less about you, the recent posts are aimed at provided correct info to the other kids you're trying to 'advise'