You think you know, but you have NO idea (blatant MTV diary ripoff)

[BigGreen]

Oh yeah, I'd also really like to work hanging cleans into that routine somewhere or other...anyone care to comment as to where they might work best? My inclination is to stick them with pull day, but I can see some excellent arguments in favor of push day and even leg day.

[BigGreen]

Well, I absolutely have to decide in the next few days which direction I'm heading in with regards to the final phase of the cycle. I'd seriously entertained the notion of just letting the esters self-taper the last few weeks solo, but that isn't exactly how I intended to do things, and I'd prefer to stick with the plan in this regard. As I continue to ask questions about winny, I'm failing to see the risk/return tradeoff warranting its use. Hairloss is an extremely unwanted side in my situation, given my mishaped head and unattached earlobes! I'm beginning to lean towards fina at a low dose of 40-50mgs/day for six weeks. It's cheaper by a longshot and the sides seem to be more within an acceptable range for my liking. I will have to come to terms with the fact that its reputation for not being a begginer's drug is likely deserved, but right now that is the front runner. Don't be surprised if I solicit some opinions from those of you keeping up with this thread.

[sigrabbit]

BG, here are some comments I put on HP's thread about my Fina use since June 20:

"I cannot make up my mind on Tren either HP. I notice definite hardness, and slight strength increase that may simply be attributed to a fraction more gym aggression, but I don't notice much in the way of sides. I have noticed that my lower back pumps up in a painful manner, and my hair seems to be brittle, but the night sweats stopped, no acne, no uncontrollable rage, etc. I would be very dissappointed if it weren't so cheap. I will continue to run it as planned to see if my opinion changes."

My first cycle was winny only, no flaming because I did not know any better. I have to say that the effects from winny are much more pronounced than the fina, so far. However, I was not cutting when I took the fina so the dramatic strength increases could have been aided by the "normal" amount of food. If your concern is hairloss, I must point out that my hair seems to be really brittle while on fina/prop. I did not notice the same effect from winny.

[BigGreen]

If your concern is hairloss, I must point out that my hair seems to be really brittle while on fina/prop. I did not notice the same effect from winny.

Fucking A!!! Exactly what I was afraid of! Shit, maybe i'll just get them both, and start with the winny. If it seems to be thinning my hair I'll discontinue, give it time to clear and then start the fina...if that starts plucking locks of blonde I just let the eq and enan taper out alone.

[ColdSore]

I dont know if i would totally rule fina out though BG...alot of people on this board have very different opinions about the drug...some wont do a cycle without it, some hate it b/c of sides, and for some it just doesnt seem to do anything to them....i contemplated my decision to use tren for along time like yourself, and i eventually decided to go for it...i took my first shoot last night! Im anxious to see how it affects me, although i am kind of worried about the side....i say go for it, use it and if you dont like what its doing then cut it off and let the test and EQ taper and throw some clen in to cut some fat if you want....i think that would work alot better for you....but thats just me

[BigGreen]

END OF WEEK TWELVE
Start Weight: 241
End of Week One: 250
End of Week Two: 253
End of Week Three: 256
End of Week Four: 258
End of Week Five: 260
End of Week Six: 260
End of Week Seven: 258
End of Week Eight: 257
End of Week Nine: 259
End of Week Ten: 259
End of Week Eleven: 255
Current Weight: 252

Well,the weight is coming off slightly more quickly (but not by much) than I would have liked, but the mirror tells a pretty good story, so I'm not going to complain too much. I'm looking forward to posting the after pics and will continue to should everything keep up as it currently is. The biggest difference I have noticed between dieting natural and dieting with gear is that my strength levels haven't instantly dropped off as was the case so many times in the past. I suppose this can only be a good thing. This is a fairly uneventful update, as my major concerns (fina vs. winny and where to include cleans in the new workout split) were addressed above. I have, however, been given an opportunity to train with a fairly successful NPC level competitor this fall, and I'm GREATLY looking forward to that!

[BigGreen]

A quick update is an order regarding a dream last night. I've been gradually cutting back on carbs over the last two weeks or so to the point that, currently, I'm taking them in only for my first meal of the day and my postworkout meal (though every 10th day or so I "carb-up", which seems to be doing wonders for me). So, while it had been easy thus far (even with eq hunger...which is a weird kind of hunger: it's always "there" but never urgent - hard to explain i guess) I think it got to me a little last night, as I dreamt that I stuffed my face with bagels and apple juice. I mean, this juice was slopping all over me like i was anchor man in quarters or something....I woke up thinking I'd totally blown my diet. As soon as I realized I was dreaming a felt a LOT better. Well, Saturday's my carb up day, so I don't have to hold out much longer.

[wannabmassive]

excellent

[Wiggum]

BG -

I don't post much on this forum (or on others for that matter), but I have been reading your cycle diary for the past weeks. I guess I'm more of a sponge absorbing information on this site for the time being. Anyway, I wanted to say that you are the definition a true athlete. NO bs, my man. You live, breath and dream bodybuilding. As a former rower who was dedicated to the sport for 10 strong years, I've had the same emotions, questions and motivations as you (regarding my sport). (And yes, I raced Dartmouth for 4 yrs while in college. Hell of boathouse you guys got on the CT river!!)

And for others: this is not meant to say that the rest of you are not athletes...it's just very evident with BG here. So kudos bro. I'm very impressed, keep it up and I know you'll reach all your goals. Good luck!

[BigGreen]

END OF WEEK THIRTEEN
Start Weight: 241
End of Week One: 250
End of Week Two: 253
End of Week Three: 256
End of Week Four: 258
End of Week Five: 260
End of Week Six: 260
End of Week Seven: 258
End of Week Eight: 257
End of Week Nine: 259
End of Week Ten: 259
End of Week Eleven: 255
End of Week Twelve: 252
Current Weight: 250

While I still plan on having my remaining QV enanthate tested, I really consider it a formality to surmise that the stuff was underdosed. It's now been about three or four weeks since I upped the dosage and then transitioned to RT gear, and I finally feel comparable to what I felt while using dbol . I hate to admit it, but I do think my first cycle was severely compromised by the this, to the point I likely did a dbol only cycle, waited a bit with an eq bridge and then started test. This is not to say I'm complaining, and it's also very likely that this little problem, though not the ideal way to go about it, may have mitigated some of my more unrealistic ambitions with regards to a first cycle. Nevertheless, the stuff is helping out now...my performance in the gym, normally abysmal as I drop carbs, is holding strong, with a select few exercises continuing to see increases, though there also exist a few with a slight dropoff (though I attribute this more to the fact that, even with aas, my body HATES to go over 40 mins in a workout when the carbs are lacking and these exercises are overwhelmingly in the latter half of my workout).

Well, I'll add some more in a bit...i hafta run now.

[BigGreen]

END OF WEEK FOURTEEN
Start Weight: 241
End of Week One: 250
End of Week Two: 253
End of Week Three: 256
End of Week Four: 258
End of Week Five: 260
End of Week Six: 260
End of Week Seven: 258
End of Week Eight: 257
End of Week Nine: 259
End of Week Ten: 259
End of Week Eleven: 255
End of Week Twelve: 252
End of Week Thirteen: 250
Current Weight: 249

Well, it appears as though things are going quite well during the latter half of my cycle, thanks in large part (as far as I'm concerned) to my transitioning to RT gear. As a side, I will definitely be using the stuff for cycle #2 (already being planned) and am looking forward to that in a BIG way.

With regards to my current cycle, I have added cardio starting just this morning and will maintain it until the end of the cycle. I could not be happier with the manner in which this gear is ameliorating or eliminating altogether the normal problems I encounter while shedding bodyfat. Primarily, it has thus far been of great assistance in keeping my "full", as a flat look is normally the first casuality during my dieting, even with carefully planned carb reloadings and such. Normally it hits me and then I "rebound" eventually, but this time it's been circumvented altogether - something I'm quite pleased with. Secondly, vascularity in my upper body tends to diminish (though it goes crazy in the legs) while dieting until the very end when it creeps back in today. Likely an effect of the equipose, it has happily stuck around this time. Again, if things continue to go as planned I think a great many of you will be impressed by the after pictures. Admittedly, they would likely have been much better had the initial mass accumulation phase gone better, but I think the end results will be solid nonetheless.

Strength has also held up during my leaning out...another shocker as it usually plummets in the first month of leaning before leveling out. I have seen a slight dip, but nothing as compared to the past. I know that many will write this off as poor dieting, and I'm sure some poor planning in the past contributed to this precipitous decline, though, rest assured, it has occurred even with the assistance of a nationally competitive bodybuilder in my dieting plans, so it can't be all poor planning on my part.

I've decided to stay away from winny as I covet my hair, and the chances are I'll be letting the compounds clear "on their own" during the two weeks after my last enan injection. I ordered some fina just to have, and there's a slight chance I may convert it tomorrow to run for the last six weeks, but it's not likely. As much as I'd like to have "something" in my system during those final weeks, I may just leave well enough alone.

Well, that's all for now....i promise I'll be a bit more active in this forum again, as I've not only posted in this very often (which has killed the traffic my poor journal used to see) but have neglected to keep up on the journals of others.

[BigGreen]

I know i'm late on my weekly update...will get to it today...I promise!

[BigGreen]

END OF WEEK FIFTEEN
Start Weight: 241
End of Week One: 250
End of Week Two: 253
End of Week Three: 256
End of Week Four: 258
End of Week Five: 260
End of Week Six: 260
End of Week Seven: 258
End of Week Eight: 257
End of Week Nine: 259
End of Week Ten: 259
End of Week Eleven: 255
End of Week Twelve: 252
End of Week Thirteen: 250
End of Week Fourteen: 249
Current Weight: 247

While things are going pretty damn well, I'm at that critical point in leaning where everything sucks. The weight loss hasn't yet given you enough of an increase in definition to justify the fact that you're getting smaller and psychologically feel like "The Incredible Shrinking Man"...it's sort of like dieting limbo.

I have much to add, and will do so, but i want to post this quickly, as the board has been notorious in the last few days for "timing out" on me or whatever while I compose posts...i've lost about twenty lengthy posts these few days

[BigGreen]

Well, as things come to a close, I figured I'd reflect on a few things; not so much the big picture, as I plan on doing that towards the very end of this thread, but just on a few things that currently come to mind. I continue to be haunted by my QV woes that are pretty well covered in this thread. Until switching to RT gear, I was convinced that dbol was the king of all AAS, because even on test i didn't feel anything comparable to dbol in the least. Having been on the RT enan for five weeks now, I'm just beginning to realize how much I may have been "robbed" in my first cycle. The final piece of anecdotal evidence comes in the form of sex drive. On dbol it was through the roof. After dbol it was down in all but the most "conducive" of situations (a strip club, bars, the beach, and similar situations)...having switched to RT, I now find myself unable to watch a Red Sox game (who, incidentally smacked Seattle tonight on the shoulders of one Pedro Martinez) without scanning the crowd for hotties. Looking at apartments I have to hide my semi if the realtor is a decent looking female. The final piece of evidence will come when I receive test results from SR, which I will post immediately after. I almost consider it a formality, but may very well end up being shocked (though I can't see it being any other way).

Essentially, if the expected is borne out and it was grossly underdosed (or even bogus..though i doubt it'll be that extreme), the following is what I essentially and unwittingly did:
*Weeks 1-4 dbol
*Weeks 1-14.5 eq
*Weeks 1-7 QV test enan at a supposed 500mg/week
*Weeks 8-10 QV test enan at a supposed 750mg/week
*Weeks 11-15.5 RT test enan at 500mg/week

What that boils down to, in effect, is a little dbol cycle with an eq bridge (and maybe or maybe not a low dose test companion) into a 5.5 week test cycle...not exactly what I had in mind for my first experience in this game. So i'm guessing that's all for now, I'm a few days away from my last shot and then the real hard part comes.

[BigGreen]

END OF WEEK FIFTEEN and a HALF
Start Weight: 241
End of Week One: 250
End of Week Two: 253
End of Week Three: 256
End of Week Four: 258
End of Week Five: 260
End of Week Six: 260
End of Week Seven: 258
End of Week Eight: 257
End of Week Nine: 259
End of Week Ten: 259
End of Week Eleven: 255
End of Week Twelve: 252
End of Week Thirteen: 250
End of Week Fourteen: 249
End of Week Fifteen: 247
Current Weight: 246

Well, today was my last shot and wouldn't you know it, for whatever reason I kind of froze on it. I've gone through 30 shots and for some reason number 31 is the only one other than the first and maybe the second that I really sort of "freeze" on. It may have to do with the fact I suspect I had my first run-in with scar tissue and my first plunge came to a screeching hault not even a sixteenth of an inch into the quad, but I'm not so sure...even before that poke I was a little nervous about the shot. Very weird.

Anyway, test results on my QV enan should be in shortly, and I will certainly post them as soon as the attachment is emailed to me. With each passing day on RT, however, this becomes even more and more a formality, as I've discussed above. I will be absolutely floored if it comes back as accurately dosed.

As anyone who has read through the entirety of this is well aware, I often oscillated between being enthusiastic about a second cycle and being downright scared of the idea I was already thinking about #2. Currently, I am happy to report that #2 is well in the works and i'm greatly looking forward to it. This will be a shameless plug, but I'm planning on running a year-long journal that will comprise two cycles, several dietary strategies and more than a handful of workout programs. I hope that it will blow this journal away.

Lastly (for this post anyway), I will be holding off on posting after pics until the results of the QV test come back...i'll feel a lot better, not to mention more responsible, if I can state that it was or was not what I thought I was getting (not to make excuses, as I'm quite happy with my progress regardless).

[BigGreen]

Some final stats before I post final thoughts later on:

Net Weight Gain: 8lbs (this stat is deceptive seeing as how i spent six weeks leaning out pretty aggressively)

Peak Weight Gain: 24lbs (this number is also deceptive as I leaned out a little before starting the cycle)

Peak Weight Gain over Previous High: 4lbs (also a tenuous stat at best as my body comp was much improved at this weight range over last time).

Teeth Lost: One (see previous page i believe...maybe two back).

Strength Gains (rough): 260 Incline Press for heavy double before cycle, 295 after. 1,000lb leg press before cycle was a heavy triple on most days (sometimes more), two nights ago it was a legitimate 10 full reps. True glute ham raises prior to the cycle I would struggle to get four and accentuating the negative portion at the bottom of the descent was rough, now I'm getting a good 6-8 reps with 90% of the descent spot on. Before cycle i would sometimes throw 135 on the barbell to do a heavy single (sometimes a double) for curls followed by some negatives - with decent form (not perfect) it's now a legit working set (4-6). I have some other numbers I could dig up, and I'm taking this off the top of my head without consulting my workout journal, but they're definitely accurate. What I can't say for sure right now is whether my strength peaked a few weeks ago and has been going down since i started leaning. What I can definitively say is that the worst part about leaning in the past for me was an insane drop in strength and gym performance. Presently, taking in hardly any carbs except for Saturdays and a slight bump to 70 grams on Wednesdays, a testament to the gear I'm on is the fact I'm even debating whether strength has gone down..in the past it would have been a given.

[BigGreen]

are people still checking this out...i don't want to go through the final stages of this for my own edification...i can do that just fine.

[Huge Presser]

I'm still followin ya BG. Doing great work bro.

I say since you've already gone this far, why not just add the finishing touches to an incredible diary?

HP

[BigGreen]

I was just checking...i feel horrible because i read this section everyday and hardly reply. I mean, how much can you really say once you get to a certain level, as things kind of level off? I'll be finishing it off, with post-cycle pics coming up shortly.

[BigGreen]

Post-cycle Pics Will Be Up Tuesday!!

[David B.]

are people still checking this out...i don't want to go through the final stages of this for my own edification...i can do that just fine.

Sure, keep it coming.

[David B.]

As I continue to ask questions about winny, I'm failing to see the risk/return tradeoff warranting its use. Hairloss is an extremely unwanted side in my situation, given my mishaped head and unattached earlobes! I'm beginning to lean towards fina at a low dose of 40-50mgs/day for six weeks. It's cheaper by a longshot and the sides seem to be more within an acceptable range for my liking. I will have to come to terms with the fact that its reputation for not being a begginer's drug is likely deserved, but right now that is the front runner. Don't be surprised if I solicit some opinions from those of you keeping up with this thread.

I rather enjoyed the renewed strength gains at the end stages of my last cycle when I added winny. It was a nice little plateau buster. But then hair loss is not an issue for me, no MPB even at age 47.

[BigGreen]

I rather enjoyed the renewed strength gains at the end stages of my last cycle when I added winny. It was a nice little plateau buster. But then hair loss is not an issue for me, no MPB even at age 47.

My bad...i guess i never really clarified that I elected to go with neither compound to finish off the cycle. Yes I'm somewhat regretting that decision, but I did not want to be overly ambitious. The next cycle (test enan, tren enan and eq will fill that nicely)

[Dude-Man]

Haha, it's kind of funny. just when you post that you were wondering if anyone was still reading, i finish it. Started at 4:50 and just finished. This has been an epic adventure. It's certainly helped me learn a lot about the virgin experience. Despite all that i've learned, I'm still going to hold off on my own maiden voyage. I want to make sure that I've exhausted every other means of gain before i start. At 5'9 and 157, i feel like i've got some ways to go, probably 6 months to a year or more before i start. But your log has been unimaginably helpful. thanks, and can't wait to see the pics.
-chris

[aanold]

are people still checking this out...i don't want to go through the final stages of this for my own edification...i can do that just fine.

BG,

Been following it the whole time. Only been able to get the time to visit about once a week. Definitely looking forward to seeing the end result pics along with the lab reseults of that Test.

[BigGreen]

Well, pics will be up in a moment. Again, I want to preface these with a qualifier. I'm psyched at the progress I made, especially in the shoulders...they just BLEW up! While on dbol I couldn't even shoot hoops with my little cousin because of the pump in my shoulders. I think you'll see, even with the limited comparsion pics and shitty quality that I also made decent progress in another one of my critical goals: widening the back. Arms continue to remain a desparate weak spot, but I also believe improvement is evident there as well. That all being said, however, there's a decent likelihood that my QV was either underdosed or faked, and while I'm having it tested i have to live with the fact that this testing is something I probably should have done before starting my cycle, not after the fact. Oh well, live and learn. In the future, particularly as I like longer cycles that hence cost more money, I'll be testing a bit from each and every cycle since that cost will only represent say, 15% of the cycle's total cost. So, the bottom line with the possibility of the fake or underdosed test story is that, while I'm happy with my gains, I'll be a lot happier with them if it turns out I essentially did an eq only cycle for a majority of the fifteen weeks, if you get what I'm saying. I never "blew up", never had acne, never had any noticeable testicular atrophy to speak of (even on a 15 weeker!), and so on and so on. As you'll see, gains are there for sure, but they seem commensurate with descriptions of eq only cycles. If it turns out the test was the real deal all along, then I have to look in the mirror and assess where it is I went wrong, because I don't believe for an instant that these gains are emblematic of a 15week cycle of test and eq. So, without further delay, here they come:

[BigGreen]

Here ya go, the infamous rear double bi. My left forearm gets cropped off in each picture, but I have to take these myself (it's a long story that has my girlfriend calling me narcissistic at the end), so at least the same part got cropped in both. As you can see, I don't think I'm imagining things when I say that my shoulders responded very well and there's a hint of the back tapering better than it had before.

[BigGreen]

It's from this angle that you can really see what I'm talking about with regards to arms being weak. They tend to be a peek-a-boo bodypart, meaning they can hold their own when flexed (you'll see what i mean, i hope, below) but look rather sad and small when unflexed. As soon as untense, the muscle goes and hides in the shoulder girdle or torso somewhere, i swear.

[BigGreen]

And finally, as the server switched while i was in the midst of posting this pic last night, the arm comparison. Some progress was made, imo, though there's not question it's still a weak spot...very much so. I'm hoping my next routine that stresses the old basic lifts for mid to low reps will put some size on.

[ENraged]

And finally, as the server switched while i was in the midst of posting this pic last night, the arm comparison. Some progress was made, imo, though there's not question it's still a weak spot...very much so. I'm hoping my next routine that stresses the old basic lifts for mid to low reps will put some size on.

nice def on the shoulders. very noticable.

[Dude-Man]

yeah, you made some great progress with your shoulders back and neck. I hear what you're saying about arms being peek a boo, i have that same problem. Mine are 13 1/2 unflexed, 16 flexed.. people are always like "what the hell?" It looks like you may share my problem, which is a relatively long humerous (upper arm) bone. It gives the appearance of very small biceps/triceps. Guys with long legs have the same problems with their gastrocnemius (calves)

[Swellin]

I have followed the this thread, but I have not posted...til now. First of all, BG, one hell of a diary. Excellent info for the rest of us!

As for your gains...
marked change in V-taper
delt growth
more def in arms
pecs have more depth

Nice goin' BG!

[talon]

yeah, you made some great progress with your shoulders back and neck. I hear what you're saying about arms being peek a boo, i have that same problem. Mine are 13 1/2 unflexed, 16 flexed.. people are always like "what the hell?" It looks like you may share my problem, which is a relatively long humerous (upper arm) bone. It gives the appearance of very small biceps/triceps. Guys with long legs have the same problems with their gastrocnemius (calves)

I heard they have a new plastic surgery procedure for this. It called shortenthehumerous. First, they take you arm off, by detaching it from the scapula at the glenoid cavity, seperating the acromion from the tubercle of the humerus. After this they will cut a chunk out of your humerous and shorted the biceps' muscle belly. Then they will reattach the arm at the scapula a viola large bis/tris........Just a little humer (pardon the pun) for Big Green.....

[talon]

Yhea, big you were suppose to comment on this one.....lol

[Dude-Man]

I'll give you a LOL.
nice description of the surgery.

[tbulldog]

BG,
Nice progress, Awesome Thread.... What were the results of the QV test? I'm anxious to know.

TBull

[BigGreen]

I heard they have a new plastic surgery procedure for this. It called shortenthehumerous. First, they take you arm off, by detaching it from the scapula at the glenoid cavity, seperating the acromion from the tubercle of the humerus. After this they will cut a chunk out of your humerous and shorted the biceps' muscle belly. Then they will reattach the arm at the scapula a viola large bis/tris........Just a little humer (pardon the pun) for Big Green.....

You bastard!! I was so eager to research this new phenomenon that I spent the last 36 hours scouring google and WebMD trying to find some info on it. My eagerness was such that I failed to see the last line betraying the whole thing as one cruel joke. To think, I went into four clinics asking if the physician either performed, or could recommend someone with a history of performing, shortenhumerousis.

[talon]

You bastard!! I was so eager to research this new phenomenon that I spent the last 36 hours scouring google and WebMD trying to find some info on it. My eagerness was such that I failed to see the last line betraying the whole thing as one cruel joke. To think, I went into four clinics asking if the physician either performed, or could recommend someone with a history of performing, shortenhumerousis.

Laughing my ass of Big. That is the funniest thing Ive heard on this board man. Thanks bro, you brightened my da....bwaha ha ha.....I like your humer (lol) alot man, your a good guy......