2 years first “undersized” steroid cycle

[Jangles1]

Everyone said I wouldn’t keep my gains. I got destroyed. But I stuck to my guns and used logic and a bit of common sense when it comes to steroid cycles and keepable gains.

I do not advocate under sized steroid use , but I am proof that you absolutely can keep your gains if starting a cycle without a good base. Of course, you should absolutely build a base.



Oct 2017 - 170lbs (body fat around 13/15%)
Oct 2019 - 220lbs (body fat around 15/17%)
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[i_SLAM_cougars]

What is an “under sized steroid cycle”?

Low dose, or short run or something?

[Jangles1]

Starting as a skinny fuck and not working towards a base. I had reasons (constant injuries), but it’s still not advisable I know.

I did 15 weeks Test E 500mg and threw in Test P and Tbol at week 5 due to the Test E being Pharmacom fakes. Blood test confirmed. Tbol was SIS so prob bunk too.

[GearHeaded]

I've never been one to tell people that they HAVE to have a good base before beginning AAS usage (of course it helps).. AAS is commonly referred to as taking a 'short cut' , but theres nothing wrong with that. when I drive to work I'm not going to purposely take the slow long route, I'll take any short cut I can get.

it has to do with your priorities in life. maybe you don't have 3-4 years to hit the gym consistently and train and eat consistently and build that base, because you have 5 kids to take care of, 2 businesses to run, time you donate to help orphans and widows etc, and maybe you have other hobbies like playing the guitar or something.. and if you have to dedicate 3-4 years to the gym and training to try and build a good base, perhaps your going to take a lot of time away from all those other good things in your life . but you want a good physique . taking a short cut makes total sense.

so actually taking AAS early on in your lifting journey may just be the optimization of your time and effort. I don't see anything wrong with that.



I once heard a well known coach (who was formally a world class power lifter) answer a question which was "whats your biggest regret in your Steroid use history" , say that his biggest regret was that he wished he would have begun using them much earlier on in his life..
his point was that the earlier you start, the more optimal you can be earlier on, and the better you'll be later on . its like investing in mutual funds. the sooner you start the bigger your balance is going to be at the end

[Jangles1]

I've never been one to tell people that they HAVE to have a good base before beginning AAS usage (of course it helps).. AAS is commonly referred to as taking a 'short cut' , but theres nothing wrong with that. when I drive to work I'm not going to purposely take the slow long route, I'll take any short cut I can get.

it has to do with your priorities in life. maybe you don't have 3-4 years to hit the gym consistently and train and eat consistently and build that base, because you have 5 kids to take care of, 2 businesses to run, time you donate to help orphans and widows etc, and maybe you have other hobbies like playing the guitar or something.. and if you have to dedicate 3-4 years to the gym and training to try and build a good base, perhaps your going to take a lot of time away from all those other good things in your life . but you want a good physique . taking a short cut makes total sense.

so actually taking AAS early on in your lifting journey may just be the optimization of your time and effort. I don't see anything wrong with that.



I once heard a well known coach (who was formally a world class power lifter) answer a question which was "whats your biggest regret in your Steroid use history" , say that his biggest regret was that he wished he would have begun using them much earlier on in his life..
his point was that the earlier you start, the more optimal you can be earlier on, and the better you'll be later on . its like investing in mutual funds. the sooner you start the bigger your balance is going to be at the end

Great fucking post. People said I could have a achieved my gains natty, but I severely doubt it.

Well never know though. It’s funny as most of the criticism is “you don’t look like you take steroids ”

No shit. I don’t want to look like that ����. I’ve received plenty of accusations from friends though due to the sudden change over my first 6 months of training.

[Windex]

Great fucking post. People said I could have a achieved my gains natty, but I severely doubt it.

Well never know though. It’s funny as most of the criticism is “you don’t look like you take steroids ”

No shit. I don’t want to look like that ����. I’ve received plenty of accusations from friends though due to the sudden change over my first 6 months of training.

50 lbs gained in 104 weeks is easily achieved naturals.

I think you'd get more self validation from Instagram than a forum by posting every 6 months with "I told you so."

[Jangles1]

Fair enough. I don’t post on Instagram as I’m not a 12 year old girl. This post wasn’t a validation post. It’s showing people you don’t need to be 200lbs and 10% body fat to do a cycle. Thanks for your input though

[i_SLAM_cougars]

A lot of people have this theory that you should “wait until you hit your natural potential” and if we all lived forever I wouldn’t see issue with that. The reality of it is, human life isn’t terribly long, and and what are your prime years for bodybuilding? 15-40? Or realistically without any kind of PEDs 15-30? Then with PEDs add 30-65 on there. At any rate there’s no time to waste.

It’s like some old head in an excavator telling you that you should dig with a shovel for the first 5 years. Why? Because he’s old and bitter that he dug with a shovel for the first 5 years before he bought an excavator, so that’s what everyone should do. The reality of it is, if you hit everything hard right from the beginning you have a much better chance of success. Look how far bodybuilding has come in. 70 years? And it’s not because Phil Heath was like “fuck bro, I ought to just take 5mg of dianabol because that’s what arnold said he did 50 years ago”

[jackfrost88]

Great work added a lot of mass!

I definitely agree that there are a lot of people advocating for reaching your "natty limit" (whatever that is) and even heard someone saying if you can't turn pro natty then you aren't ready for steroids etc. These people rarely follow their own advice and I believe they just enjoy preaching to the "little people" and acting like they are levels above everyone else.

The one point of waiting I agree on is that holding off on steroids forces you to get your diet / training / sleep and routine in order. It builds a good base of habits. In order to add size naturally after a certain point it becomes difficult and the fundamentals have to be in place. With an early addition of steroids, these good habits aren't necessary because of progress enabled by the drugs. If you had a strong base with a consistent routine and diet - then added gear on top, that's where it really shines IMO.

But to your point I can definitely see why it would be frustrating and a lot of people act like you need to be a natural Ronnie Coleman to earn the privilege of the magical roids which is BS.

[Jangles1]

Great work added a lot of mass!

I definitely agree that there are a lot of people advocating for reaching your "natty limit" (whatever that is) and even heard someone saying if you can't turn pro natty then you aren't ready for steroids etc. These people rarely follow their own advice and I believe they just enjoy preaching to the "little people" and acting like they are levels above everyone else.

The one point of waiting I agree on is that holding off on steroids forces you to get your diet / training / sleep and routine in order. It builds a good base of habits. In order to add size naturally after a certain point it becomes difficult and the fundamentals have to be in place. With an early addition of steroids, these good habits aren't necessary because of progress enabled by the drugs. If you had a strong base with a consistent routine and diet - then added gear on top, that's where it really shines IMO.

But to your point I can definitely see why it would be frustrating and a lot of people act like you need to be a natural Ronnie Coleman to earn the privilege of the magical roids which is BS.

Regardless of base or not, the effect a cycle had on my mind set alone allowed me to work harder than ever before. Sure that’s prob the wrong mindset, but it is what it is.

Best thing I ever did and along with regular bloods to check health, i have changed my entire life, confidence, etc etc etc and done it fairly safely.

It’s been a fun ride.

[GearHeaded]

regardless it all comes down to a personal choice. there is no "earning" the right to take AAS or not.. if a 20 year old kid decides to take AAS after only 2 weeks of training, thats his right and his choice (that same kid can choose to join the military, get handed an AR15, and fight and die for his country ... so big whoop if he wants to stick a needle in his ass).


my opinion , and thats all this comes down to, "opinion" , is that purposely holding off on taking AAS when your purposely trying to bodybuild and build an awesome physique, is just being sub optimal .
its like having a Ferrari and not putting the best performing tires on it . or its like saying your going to optimize your training and then following a sub par shitty program, or with your diet your purposely not buying high quality food . your purposely not enhancing your performance and recovery and maximizing gains. your choosing to be sub optimal .

natty bodybuilders are 'naturally' content with having sub par mediocre physiques . they could easily chose to optimize things (like AAS use) and make themselves much much better, but they are simply content with average and mediocre . thats their personal choice.

I however am not really like that. I generally choose to optimize the hell out of stuff.. if I'm going to put the effort in to diet and train, then I'm going to also optimize recovery with AAS . my sports car does not have budget tires on it , it has the same set of tires that come on the new lambos, it has 6 piston Brembo brakes, and Recaro racing seats. things that optimize its performance.. where as my father in law would be perfectly content with a bone stock Toyota Corrola.. he's also the type of guy that uses an old set of Adams irons that I gave to him to play golf with, where as I'm going to use a top of the line set of Mizzuno forged irons. if he was a bodybuilder, he would likely have the mind set to stay natty. he's totally content with sub optimal performance in all aspects of his life

[Obs]

regardless it all comes down to a personal choice. there is no "earning" the right to take AAS or not.. if a 20 year old kid decides to take AAS after only 2 weeks of training, thats his right and his choice (that same kid can choose to join the military, get handed an AR15, and fight and die for his country ... so big whoop if he wants to stick a needle in his ass).


my opinion , and thats all this comes down to, "opinion" , is that purposely holding off on taking AAS when your purposely trying to bodybuild and build an awesome physique, is just being sub optimal .
its like having a Ferrari and not putting the best performing tires on it . or its like saying your going to optimize your training and then following a sub par shitty program, or with your diet your purposely not buying high quality food . your purposely not enhancing your performance and recovery and maximizing gains. your choosing to be sub optimal .

natty bodybuilders are 'naturally' content with having sub par mediocre physiques . they could easily chose to optimize things (like AAS use) and make themselves much much better, but they are simply content with average and mediocre . thats their personal choice.

I however am not really like that. I generally choose to optimize the hell out of stuff.. if I'm going to put the effort in to diet and train, then I'm going to also optimize recovery with AAS . my sports car does not have budget tires on it , it has the same set of tires that come on the new lambos, it has 6 piston Brembo brakes, and Recaro racing seats. things that optimize its performance.. where as my father in law would be perfectly content with a bone stock Toyota Corrola.. he's also the type of guy that uses an old set of Adams irons that I gave to him to play golf with, where as I'm going to use a top of the line set of Mizzuno forged irons. if he was a bodybuilder, he would likely have the mind set to stay natty. he's totally content with sub optimal performance in all aspects of his life

No Ar 15's in the military. Never has been

[Obs]

regardless it all comes down to a personal choice. there is no "earning" the right to take AAS or not.. if a 20 year old kid decides to take AAS after only 2 weeks of training, thats his right and his choice (that same kid can choose to join the military, get handed an AR15, and fight and die for his country ... so big whoop if he wants to stick a needle in his ass).


my opinion , and thats all this comes down to, "opinion" , is that purposely holding off on taking AAS when your purposely trying to bodybuild and build an awesome physique, is just being sub optimal .
its like having a Ferrari and not putting the best performing tires on it . or its like saying your going to optimize your training and then following a sub par shitty program, or with your diet your purposely not buying high quality food . your purposely not enhancing your performance and recovery and maximizing gains. your choosing to be sub optimal .

natty bodybuilders are 'naturally' content with having sub par mediocre physiques . they could easily chose to optimize things (like AAS use) and make themselves much much better, but they are simply content with average and mediocre . thats their personal choice.

I however am not really like that. I generally choose to optimize the hell out of stuff.. if I'm going to put the effort in to diet and train, then I'm going to also optimize recovery with AAS . my sports car does not have budget tires on it , it has the same set of tires that come on the new lambos, it has 6 piston Brembo brakes, and Recaro racing seats. things that optimize its performance.. where as my father in law would be perfectly content with a bone stock Toyota Corrola.. he's also the type of guy that uses an old set of Adams irons that I gave to him to play golf with, where as I'm going to use a top of the line set of Mizzuno forged irons. if he was a bodybuilder, he would likely have the mind set to stay natty. he's totally content with sub optimal performance in all aspects of his life

I particularly like that last line.

Perfect description of the type B's that piss me off every day.

[Aner]

Everyone said I wouldn’t keep my gains. I got destroyed. But I stuck to my guns and used logic and a bit of common sense when it comes to steroid cycles and keepable gains.

I do not advocate under sized steroid use , but I am proof that you absolutely can keep your gains if starting a cycle without a good base. Of course, you should absolutely build a base.



Oct 2017 - 170lbs (body fat around 13/15%)
Oct 2019 - 220lbs (body fat around 15/17%)
-
-
-

Nice transformation! Results prove that you found the right path that lead you to your goal!
I read your log with much interest and I saw that you received many critics, imo the "reaching your natural potential" is so illogical: training and eating costs time and money and I don't really see any good reason to not get the best you can from your efforts.

Inviato dal mio SM-G950F utilizzando Tapatalk

[Noname81]

Starting as a skinny fuck and not working towards a base. I had reasons (constant injuries), but it’s still not advisable I know.

I did 15 weeks Test E 500mg and threw in Test P and Tbol at week 5 due to the Test E being Pharmacom fakes. Blood test confirmed. Tbol was SIS so prob bunk too.

How do you spot the fakes. One thing I have notice in my short time researching this stuff is people creating there own reviews on truepilot. When you look at the reviews they seem fake. They always talk about how wonderful the site is. The reviews do not seem like reviews that a normal person would right. Also if I get a PM from some one it is probably a scam

[Jangles1]

How do you spot the fakes. One thing I have notice in my short time researching this stuff is people creating there own reviews on truepilot. When you look at the reviews they seem fake. They always talk about how wonderful the site is. The reviews do not seem like reviews that a normal person would right. Also if I get a PM from some one it is probably a scam

You can’t. The numbers even checked out but the bloods simply can’t lie.

Imo PC maybe selling batches of undefdosed gear or counterfeitrs are getting very smart.

I kicked up a HUGE fuss on 2 forums and got 4 vials replaced after proving bloods and posting video evidence. The Amps only had .6 mil in too

[Jangles1]

You can’t. The numbers even checked out but the bloods simply can’t lie.

Imo PC maybe selling batches of undefdosed gear or counterfeitrs are getting very smart.

I kicked up a HUGE fuss on 2 forums and got 4 vials replaced after proving bloods and posting video evidence. The Amps only had .6 mil in too

Best to source of someone who’s massive in your gym or on this forum.

[Nackel]

Interesting to see what an undersized cycle looks like.
How was your strength on the cycle?

[R.J.]

lol true that