2 months In.....still scrawny.....

**stayinstacked** · 10-23-2006, 09:02 AM

good definition, how much food do you eat/day? And 2 months into what, training? Cycling? Bulking?

**Columbus** · 10-23-2006, 09:22 AM

6:30am - 1cup Oats + 1scp whey + 1tbsn flax + BCAA/Glutamine + 25 g of protein from liquid egg whites
Prot(50) - Carbs(50) - Fat(10g)

9:00am – 6-8oz chicken breast + 1tb of pb +1cup oats.
Prot(60) - Carbs(50) - Fat(15)

12:00p - 6oz Turkey or lean beef + 8ozSweetpotato (or 1 cup rice)+ Veggies
Prot(60) - Carbs(75) - Fat(approx. 5g max)

3pmp – 6oz tuna steak or lean beef + 1tb of olive oil.
Prot(60) - Carbs(minimal) - Fat(14)

4:45p (Train)
BCAA's <5g>
L-Glutamine + peptide <5g>
CEE (Creatine Ethyl Ester) <5g>

6:00p PWO - 2scp protein blend + ½ cups oats, 6-10 rice cakes
Prot(50) - Carbs(75) - Fat(0)

7:15p PPWO - 6ozChicken or Turkey/1scp whey + 1 cup oats + 1cup Veg
Prot(50) - Carbs(50) - Fat(0)

900p Shake – 6-8oz chicken/lean beef, 1tb of flax
Prot(50) - Carbs(2) - Fat(15)

915 - BED

**stayinstacked** · 10-23-2006, 09:38 AM

Ok, the diet looks good if you were cutting? I'm not understanding the post my friend, 2 months into what? In any event, great definition

**Columbus** · 10-23-2006, 09:42 AM

Two month into my attempted bulk. Started at 150, actually 10 weeks later I am right around 170-171 in the am first thing after cardio. Trying to pack on some lean mass, but still doing very very light cardio and wondering if it's hampering....think I'm what 10%? That was my point.....HRT dose of 125mg cyp and 125mg eq 2 week 10th week.

**Hackamaniac** · 10-23-2006, 09:44 AM

Your cut that's fore sure bro!
Keep up the good work..

**Columbus** · 10-23-2006, 09:55 AM

Thanks but I'm so scared to lose the definition even thouigh I am skinny...keeping me from making gains......that's my poblem right now....so, I need to hear how scrawny I am at 6'1.5....

***perfectbeast2001*** · 10-23-2006, 10:02 AM

Originally Posted by Columbus

Two month into my attempted bulk. Started at 150, actually 10 weeks later I am right around 170-171 in the am first thing after cardio. Trying to pack on some lean mass, but still doing very very light cardio and wondering if it's hampering....think I'm what 10%? That was my point.....HRT dose of 125mg cyp and 125mg eq 2 week 10th week.

Your diet is the problem not your light cardio. If you are not gaining raise your cals by 500 and see how you go.

**Hackamaniac** · 10-23-2006, 10:09 AM

Okay well I do think Mizfit has a lil more size than you

She's only 120 some lbs!

**Hellmaskbanned** · 10-23-2006, 10:45 AM

Raise the cals alot.

**Columbus** · 10-23-2006, 10:45 AM

Originally Posted by perfectbeast2001

Your diet is the problem not your light cardio. If you are not gaining raise your cals by 500 and see how you go.

**audis4** · 10-23-2006, 10:49 AM

Originally Posted by Columbus

ya dude, your really cut. I would keep the light cardio but raise your cals by 500 like perfectbeast said until you start packing on fat and then back off a bit.

**stayinstacked** · 10-23-2006, 10:54 AM

bro, so maaannnnnyyy people have this problem. They can visualize what they want to look like, but they cant follow through because they want to be big and cut at the same time. You need to pick a goal and stick to it, trying to stay super shredded and get huge at the same time is running in place, it cant happen unless your on a TON of GH. You need to eat more than you burn, by doing this your bound to lose a little definition, it's inevitable.

**Columbus** · 10-23-2006, 11:07 AM

How to u break the mental barrier?

**lazaro17** · 10-23-2006, 11:12 AM

I would cut back on the cardio and raise calories...

cut yeah, but for your height real thin ...

maybe visit some fast food restaurants so you can add some weight, good for bulking

whatever your decision is good luck

**stayinstacked** · 10-23-2006, 11:19 AM

Originally Posted by Columbus

How to u break the mental barrier?

the trick for me is being 110% into either cutting or bulking. You need to say to yourself "Aright, the next 12 weeks is dedicated to mass and strength, I dont give a shit about seeing my abs, getting 12-15% bodyfat, my goal is to be as large and as strong as I possibly can" Or "Ok, now is the time to cut, I dont care if people tell me I'm getting smaller, I dont care if I lose 1" on my arms or legs, and I dont care if my bnech press drops 100 lbs, this isnt about how much i lift, its about how good i look" You need to start thinking with that mind-frame, do you think pro bodybuilders look competition ready year round? Hell no, there's a good reason for that!! You can be 200 lbs fairly lean year round, but what you need to do is ask yourself if you want to look just in shape, or wanna look like a real bodybuilder.

**spound** · 10-23-2006, 02:17 PM

Originally Posted by Columbus

Two month into my attempted bulk. Started at 150, actually 10 weeks later I am right around 170-171 in the am first thing after cardio. Trying to pack on some lean mass, but still doing very very light cardio and wondering if it's hampering....think I'm what 10%? That was my point.....HRT dose of 125mg cyp and 125mg eq 2 week 10th week.

I think some of you fellas need to re-read. I think his diet is fine, but it also depends on how big he is...what is your bodyweight?? I mean shit, he went from 150-170 and is still super shreaded. That is 20 lbs of PURE muscle in 10 wks. I bet almost none of ya'll have accomplished that b4. maybe 20lbs gian, but not 20lbs MUSCLE gain.

I do not see how some of you can comment on his diet when you don't even know how muych this guy weighs???

Dude, you are lean as hell!! Probably 3-5% bodyfat.

If you are still gaining then keep doing what you are doing, you really can not ask for more than 20lbs of Lean body mass in 10 wks LOL Just keep it up. If gains slow down, then up your calories by 300-500 and keep going.

***perfectbeast2001*** · 10-23-2006, 02:35 PM

Originally Posted by spound

I think some of you fellas need to re-read. I think his diet is fine, but it also depends on how big he is...what is your bodyweight?? I mean shit, he went from 150-170 and is still super shreaded. That is 20 lbs of PURE muscle in 10 wks. I bet almost none of ya'll have accomplished that b4. maybe 20lbs gian, but not 20lbs MUSCLE gain.

I do not see how some of you can comment on his diet when you don't even know how muych this guy weighs???

Dude, you are lean as hell!! Probably 3-5% bodyfat.

If you are still gaining then keep doing what you are doing, you really can not ask for more than 20lbs of Lean body mass in 10 wks LOL Just keep it up. If gains slow down, then up your calories by 300-500 and keep going.

Because I don't believe he gained 20lbs in 10 weeks and I don't need to see his weight when I can see his picture. He states he is not gaining and he is bulking. That comes down to diet.

**mavsluva** · 10-23-2006, 02:49 PM

Originally Posted by Columbus

How to u break the mental barrier?

I was in the same boat that you're curently in a while back ago. I didn't begin to gain mass until I decided to accept the fact that I had to put on some fat in the process. What you need to keep in mind is that since you're naturally lean, you'll have the ability to shed fat a lot quicker than most. Keep changing up your workouts to keep the body guessing and last but not least:

"Your desire to change has to be greater than your desire to stay the same."

Check out my posts for pictures of my gains over the last 12 months.

Good luck,
Mavsluva

**Hellmaskbanned** · 10-23-2006, 02:54 PM

Originally Posted by perfectbeast2001

Because I don't believe he gained 20lbs in 10 weeks and I don't need to see his weight when I can see his picture. He states he is not gaining and he is bulking. That comes down to diet.

Exactly.

And it's quite obvious he needs to eat more.

**timtim** · 10-23-2006, 03:18 PM

I think some of you fellas need to re-read. I think his diet is fine, but it also depends on how big he is...what is your bodyweight?? I mean shit, he went from 150-170 and is still super shreaded. That is 20 lbs of PURE muscle in 10 wks. I bet almost none of ya'll have accomplished that b4. maybe 20lbs gian, but not 20lbs MUSCLE gain.

20 pounds in 10 weeks? natural? no way. noobs gain 20 pounds in the first year they train, not the first 10 weeks.

**BigLittleTim** · 10-23-2006, 03:25 PM

Check out Perfectbeast's "clean bulk" thread. It touches on diet, work-out, AAS, cardio... just about everything that relates to bulking. He, too, has mentioned loosing the definition around his a**ominals and what that means for a guy who used to be chubby before he got into lifting. That said, look at how much more powerful and full he looks with the extra poundage, "fat" and all. You can always diet down later.

You're going to loose some of your definition, even on a "clean bulk" cycle, but I've never found a way to gain muscle and strength without bulking up with some serious Rugby lard at the same time. I've bulked up from 235 lbs. to 275 lbs. this season. All my lifts are at record highs and I can't tie my shoes.

Still, I've never cared to be ripped and shredded, so it's an easy decision for me to make.

-BigLittleTim

***perfectbeast2001*** · 10-23-2006, 03:28 PM

Thanks for the PR Tim!! LOL about not being able to tie shoes.

**spound** · 10-23-2006, 11:35 PM

Originally Posted by timtim

20 pounds in 10 weeks? natural? no way. noobs gain 20 pounds in the first year they train, not the first 10 weeks.

I believe he said he was on low doses of test and EQ (which he shouldn't be based on his development level)

**Columbus** · 10-24-2006, 05:35 AM

I listen fairly well, so I do love constructive critisim. If this turns into a slam fest, it will be my last time, and I’ll move on to try to accomplish this feat with the helop of a specialist. Long story short, I have or am in the process of killing a eating disorder. In college, 10 years ago, I was a stud. Honestly. Not to boast, but I was a BMOC. I was a outside linebacker (ok, div III, but still), about 245, at 6’1 and maybe 12-13% (abs visibible laying down etc)….I just ate. I trained heavy. And I partied with the best of them. I ran some dumb cycles, pct was unheard of, and made some pretty good gains. Benching 375 in my lst set for a few…squatting ATF with 3+ plates for 12…..good strength. Well, I graduated and quickly found myself behind a desk, as a CPA for 8-10+ hours a day. Coming from an athetic backround, this killed me, I started reading and reading and reading everything about diet and I was terrified now of getting fat because I sat all day. So I started eating small meals a day, doing cardio 7 days a week in the am, training 7 days a week in the pm, no gear, all I thought I needed was boatloads of protein. I then did a few triatholons, stepped on the scale a few years later and was 190. Same height, but I HAD ABS! I became een more concerned with losing them. So I apparently cut my cals even more. And more. And more and here I am. A victim of exercise nervousa, where I wouldn’t eat jack if I didn’t know or hadn’t worked out that day.

Well, to stop with the boredom I am still a CPA still sitting all day, more knowledgeable then even on diet and training, but applying them to myself is what is killing me. I had my test levels checked and they came back off the charts low. This scared me even more as the more I read the more I learned that low test = fat storage even if you are active. So, the doc put me on Androderm weened me off and it did nothing. So I decided a few weeks ago to take matters nto my own hands. I was/am depressed, sick, weak, etc. I went from375 bench to 275. Then 200, then 175 and before I knew it, 5 sets of 5 at 135 is tough!

SO, I met this trainer, nationally known, who looked at me a few weeks ago and said “You could compete at the local level buddy, but right now, you are in a state that I’ve never witnessed before” BUT I HAVE ABS! Yes he said, and so do ethopians. You are 6’1, you should be 180lbs just to be normal. I weighed in today at 162lbs and refuse to have my bf tested as I know it’s low, very low. So low that my hands and feet turn numb, my back aches. My stomach aches, etc.

So he said would you give me a shot. Sure I said, but what the hell does he want with me? Anyways, it’s now his project. To get me on stage, to beat this disorder and to turn me back into the guy I once was. So here we go. I’ll post the diet he wants me to follow to a tee. It’s been one full week and I am struggling mentally and physically. I am eating cals in an ungodly amount, for me anyeays. Prob.4x as much as I was, but I am not permitted to count the macros. I will post my daily routine, feelings, etc and would love to hear from you guys to keep me on track. Ill ask questions to help get me over the hump, to fight through it, but losing the ABS, getting blurred out in the definition area is so depressing, esp. when I still do cardio, so that’s why I need you guys

**timtim** · 10-24-2006, 05:39 PM

I believe he said he was on low doses of test and EQ (which he shouldn't be based on his development level)

i missed that. my bad.

***perfectbeast2001*** · 10-24-2006, 06:05 PM

Originally Posted by Columbus

I listen fairly well, so I do love constructive critisim. If this turns into a slam fest, it will be my last time, and I’ll move on to try to accomplish this feat with the helop of a specialist. Long story short, I have or am in the process of killing a eating disorder. In college, 10 years ago, I was a stud. Honestly. Not to boast, but I was a BMOC. I was a outside linebacker (ok, div III, but still), about 245, at 6’1 and maybe 12-13% (abs visibible laying down etc)….I just ate. I trained heavy. And I partied with the best of them. I ran some dumb cycles, pct was unheard of, and made some pretty good gains. Benching 375 in my lst set for a few…squatting ATF with 3+ plates for 12…..good strength. Well, I graduated and quickly found myself behind a desk, as a CPA for 8-10+ hours a day. Coming from an athetic backround, this killed me, I started reading and reading and reading everything about diet and I was terrified now of getting fat because I sat all day. So I started eating small meals a day, doing cardio 7 days a week in the am, training 7 days a week in the pm, no gear, all I thought I needed was boatloads of protein. I then did a few triatholons, stepped on the scale a few years later and was 190. Same height, but I HAD ABS! I became een more concerned with losing them. So I apparently cut my cals even more. And more. And more and here I am. A victim of exercise nervousa, where I wouldn’t eat jack if I didn’t know or hadn’t worked out that day.

Well, to stop with the boredom I am still a CPA still sitting all day, more knowledgeable then even on diet and training, but applying them to myself is what is killing me. I had my test levels checked and they came back off the charts low. This scared me even more as the more I read the more I learned that low test = fat storage even if you are active. So, the doc put me on Androderm weened me off and it did nothing. So I decided a few weeks ago to take matters nto my own hands. I was/am depressed, sick, weak, etc. I went from375 bench to 275. Then 200, then 175 and before I knew it, 5 sets of 5 at 135 is tough!

SO, I met this trainer, nationally known, who looked at me a few weeks ago and said “You could compete at the local level buddy, but right now, you are in a state that I’ve never witnessed before” BUT I HAVE ABS! Yes he said, and so do ethopians. You are 6’1, you should be 180lbs just to be normal. I weighed in today at 162lbs and refuse to have my bf tested as I know it’s low, very low. So low that my hands and feet turn numb, my back aches. My stomach aches, etc.

So he said would you give me a shot. Sure I said, but what the hell does he want with me? Anyways, it’s now his project. To get me on stage, to beat this disorder and to turn me back into the guy I once was. So here we go. I’ll post the diet he wants me to follow to a tee. It’s been one full week and I am struggling mentally and physically. I am eating cals in an ungodly amount, for me anyeays. Prob.4x as much as I was, but I am not permitted to count the macros. I will post my daily routine, feelings, etc and would love to hear from you guys to keep me on track. Ill ask questions to help get me over the hump, to fight through it, but losing the ABS, getting blurred out in the definition area is so depressing, esp. when I still do cardio, so that’s why I need you guys

Interesting story mate. I am from the other end of the spectrum Im afraid (ex fatty bom batty!!) So I am not much help here. Good luck getting yourself sorted out man.

**Columbus** · 10-25-2006, 06:16 AM

I am an ex fatty too.....tis another reason I dont wanna get the chub again!

**IBdmfkr** · 10-25-2006, 07:54 AM

Hey columbus.. you've got to take this step if you want to put on mass.. I know I couldn't ever understand your disorder but I'm pretty sure you can pull through it.. In a year you'll be 20lbs heavier at the same Bodyfat.. you'll look amazing!

**Columbus** · 10-25-2006, 07:59 AM

Originally Posted by I**mfkr

Hey columbus.. you've got to take this step if you want to put on mass.. I know I couldn't ever understand your disorder but I'm pretty sure you can pull through it.. In a year you'll be 20lbs heavier at the same Bodyfat.. you'll look amazing!

thanks boss, but how do I know??? I mean my diet is clean, youve seen it but how do I know if I am really getting fat or gaining muscle? I'm 30 bro...my metob. is on the decline, even though I do sub in a hrt dose of test and eq.....doesnt matter. thats what worries me.

**IBdmfkr** · 10-25-2006, 08:10 AM

Well you'd have to figure out your maintenance calories and then bump them up slightly to gain the majority of weight in muscle.. You CANNOT stay that lean and gain much muscle.. you have starved the muscle off yourself, which in turn has brought your metabolism down significantly.. Now it's time to reverse the process, if you put a bit of fat on in the process then so be it, next time you "diet" you'll be much smarter than before and not lose your LBM as you have just done.

You are your own worst enemy in this situation from what it seems.

**Columbus** · 10-25-2006, 09:05 AM

brlliant...ive been on this for 11 weeks weight went from 150-168......last 2 weeks ive been 168-171 on back n forth...thoughts?

PROTEIN CARBS FATS CALORIES

3/4 CUP OATS 4.50 40.50 4.50 225.00
EGG WHITES 30.00 2.00 0.50 135.00
1/2 SCOOP 15.00 2.00 1.00 70.00
BCAAS - - - -
49.50 44.50 - 6.00 - 430.00

Prot(50) - Carbs(50) - Fat(10g)

6OZ CHICKEN 51.00 - 6.00 275.00
1 CUP OATS 6.00 54.00 6.00 300.00
57.00 54.00 - 12.00 - 575.00

Prot(60) - Carbs(75) - Fat(approx. 5g max) Good.

6OZ CHICK/TUNA/TURKEY 51.00 - 6.00 275.00
8OZ YAM 3.00 55.00 1.00 225.00
54.00 55.00 7.00 500.00

6OZ TUNA/CHICK/TURKY/LEAN BEEF 51.00 - 6.00 275.00
1 TB OLIVE OIL 0 0 13.5 125
51.00 - - 19.50 - 400.00

4:45p (Train)
BCAA's <5g>
L-Glutamine + peptide <5g>
CEE (Creatine Ethyl Ester) <5g> Good. 90

630pm
2. CUP cold cereal 1 40 1 250
2 SCOOPS BLEND 50 10 6 275
2 RICE CAKES W/ JELLY 0 20 1 150
51 70 8 675

7pm
6-8OZ CHX/BEEF 51.00 - 6.00 275.00
1 CUP OATS 6.00 54.00 6.00 300.00
57.00 54.00 - 12.00 - 575.00

Prot(50) - Carbs(2) - Fat(15) Good.
60Z CX/BEEF 51.00 - 6.00 275.00
1TB FLAX - - 14.00 130.00
51.00 20.00 405.00
915 - BED

12:30a –If I wake up
Fish,chiecken or beef or a protein blend. 25 5 5 150
Prot(50) - Fat(10) 25.00 5.00 - 5.00 150

~Total Macros~
Prot: 400-450g 395.50 282.50 - 89.50 #VALUE! 3,800.00
Carbs: 350-400g
Fat: 100-110g
Total calories (approx) = 4000 =

**Columbus** · 10-27-2006, 07:01 AM

no mo love for a skinny dude in dire need of mass??

**IBdmfkr** · 10-27-2006, 07:40 AM

I thought you had a trainer bro? What does he think about the diet?

Also you can't seriously expect to keep gaining weight like you did the first two weeks.

**Hellmaskbanned** · 10-27-2006, 10:45 AM

Originally Posted by Columbus

thanks boss, but how do I know??? I mean my diet is clean, youve seen it but how do I know if I am really getting fat or gaining muscle? I'm 30 bro...my metob. is on the decline, even though I do sub in a hrt dose of test and eq.....doesnt matter. thats what worries me.

Why are you taking test and eq?

And I read that you said you were 6'1 245lbs with abs showing?....
If thats true you should pretty much know how to get big on your own really.
And muscle memory is a wonderful thing if you were that size , you should have little trouble getting up to 220lbs.

**Columbus** · 11-01-2006, 07:27 AM

can I get a true honest critque of my pics. Sorry I have no legs or full body shots but that is how lean I am. I am pretty damn weak as I continue to do cardio every am on an empty tank because I am additced. I lift daily and train hard, but I am just a weak puss. Idea of some of my lifts and below is my diet....please assist me...I feel like total shit

I am 30yrs on HRT. I am 6'2 an 166lbs. very weak.
bench - 205
squats - 190 - knees play a huge role
barbell row - 170x5
bi curl - 95x8
deads - 305x1

6:30am -3.4th cup Oats + 1scp whey + 1 cup liq egg whites

9:00am – 6-8oz chicken breast + 1cup oats.
Prot(60) - Carbs(55) -

12:00p - 6oz Turkey or lean beef + 1 cup rice+ Veggies
Prot(60) - Carbs(75) - Fat(approx. 5g max)

3pmp – 6oz tuna steak or lean beef
Prot(60) - Carbs(minimal)

4:45p (Train)
BCAA's <5g>
L-Glutamine + peptide <5g>
CEE (Creatine Ethyl Ester) <5g>

6:00p PWO - 2scp protein blend + ½ cups oats, 6-10 rice cakes
Prot(50) - Carbs(75) - Fat(0)

7:15p PPWO - 6ozChicken or Turkey/1scp whey + 3.4ts cup oats + 1cup Veg
Prot(50) - Carbs(40) - Fat(0)

900p Shake –
Prot(50) - Carbs(2) -

midnight if I wake up starving I have some veggies and maybe 2oz 3oz lewan beef - usually celery, radishes, mushrooms....

915 - BED

**fr8lnr01** · 11-01-2006, 08:03 AM

Your pictures are truly disturbing. I would love to be that lean but you really do look emmaciated. You should have no problem getting big again soon. Some one else mentioned muscle memory and it seems to be true to me. Keep training and try to keep a more positive attitude to your work. I know when i feel down i usually have a hard time getting done with my workout and eating all of my meals regularly. I am no board proffesional but if I ate that much I would gain some serious weight. Maybe you should do the cardio on the mornings you dont train, only, so your not creating too much of a calorie deficit. You look skinny but you are easily repairable.

**IBdmfkr** · 11-01-2006, 09:06 AM

Stop overtraining and setup a reasonable training program, no need to be in the gym everyday or doing cardio Every morning while bulking.. You'll get nowhere fast if you continue this.

**Columbus** · 11-01-2006, 09:22 AM

100% agree......thanks for the honesty...now I am finding some people say, man your abs look good, so I am eating less in hopes of keeping them....dumping out food, etc.....its stupid if they saw the rest of me, they'd die.

On this diet, it's gonna be hard for me to keep the abs, right? I want to gain mass, but the depressed of looking smooth sux. Should I finagle my diet, carb cycle, if I train 3-4x a week and cardio 3x max? I just can't undersand the rationale behind eating so many carbs when u do nothing but sit in an office all day....with me? I'd LOVE your help bro......