north Korea

[Phreak101]

BOLD

i'm with you on this johan, though it seems way too many others are too involved with being "patriotic" and backing our govt's actions to see any reason here. i just don't understand how so many americans are completely blind to how things really are rather than just listening to what our media tells us?

Bush's approval rating is at an all time low, not many are backing this war. Give us some credit!

when we invaded iraq, we had no damn right to. if their people wanted change as bush claimed, they should've taken action themselves. if they can't, that should not be the responsibility of another country to do so for them. one country has no place to decide "what's best" for another. they don't live there, they don't see it everyday and live in it. they have no clue what's best for their people. but time and time again, the US govt intervenes with their conceited "we're right" attitude.

Sadamm had 10 years to let weapons inspectors in, we would be the primary target to all terrorist groups if in fact he had weapons, which he may or may have not. Even if he didn't at the time, I think we can all agree if he could have made them, he would have made them. Imagine a nuclear payload flying into the WTC....

i have seen posts complaining about other countries not taking action. well IMO, the US takes too much action, and keeps putting their noses where it doesn't belong. by doing so, they continually piss of more and more of the other countries at us, which will only potentially lead to more and more attacks on the US, either terrorist or otherwise.

We are damned if we do, and we are damned if we don't. The US is constantly being criticzed for taking too much action here, not enough action there, etc. In order to protect our interests, actions need to be taken everywhere. We are a global superpower. This is not an ego thing, it is a fact. In order to stay that way, measures must be taken. The only countries we are pissing off are the countries that seem hellbent on going to war with anyone who isn't Islamic or North Korean. I don't want nukes in the hands of someone who has publically stated that Israel should be "wiped off the map" do you?

personally, i think n korea is doing something really stupid right now, but in all honesty, you really think they can't make nuclear weapons covertly? this whole thing is just for attention and should not be humored. it's impossible to watch over a whole country and oversee all their actions. at least with him ranting about it like he is, we at least know what he's doing and can keep an eye on it.

No they can't, that's why the U.N. has weapons inspectors who specifically look for nuclear weapon uranium enrichment. The only way he could make them covertly is if he throws them out and refuses to let them in. We already had one maniac do that for 10 years. But all in all yes it is for attention, but every inferno starts with a spark, and N Korea is that spark

how would all you US citizens like it if the US started doing some kind of new weapons research and another country started telling us "no, you can't do that"? chances are, you'd think "f*ck you, it's our country and we can do whatever we want". however, when you see the US do it to another country, you expect them to think it's acceptable? eventually, the US is gonna push around the wrong country, and eventually one of those countries is gonna push back, and "big brother" is gonna be in for a big surprise when one day a country we finally push too far makes 9/11 look like a scratch on the knee.

The difference is the United States does not need nuclear weponry as part of it's agenda, we have it as a deterrant against massive offensives against us. The other countries in pursuit of nuclear weponry have not demonstrated over their histories that they will not use it covertly and/or sell it off to terrorists. Why would we allow Iran to just produce all the nukes it wants? Would it be a good diea to let N Korea just have a hydrogen bomb? None of these countries will ever be able to inflict a wound on a much higher scale than 9/11, simply because we are preventing them from doing so in the early stages.

[RA]

Huh?? quite possible I was semi worked up last night.



Not realy. I would be more afraid that we would be speaking russian though. Because the russians would have beaten germany.


So a one on one fight between Germany and Russia, you think Germany would have won?

I did say "countries" also. I know the us wasnt the only country in there.


All Im saying realy is that there is no way to deal with him. Putting sanctions on N.Korea kills the inocent people of N.Korea and going to war is to dangerous. The only (sane) thing that can be done is continue talks..The talks will probably get no where, but atleast it might prevent war.



At this point we agree. More talks. But when, not if that doesnt work its time to do something more.



Was it a bottle of "absolut vodka" I prefer finish vodka myself

She was told it was the same quality as absolut but cheaper.

[Kärnfysikern]

So a one on one fight between Germany and Russia, you think Germany would have won?

I did say "countries" also. I know the us wasnt the only country in there.

Nah I think Russia would have won in the end. Not like Im a history expert but no country has ever beaten russia on there own ground. Those bastards always come back and **** you upp if germany wouldnt have had other fronts to worry about and if Hitler would have let his generals run the show I think they would have beaten russia. But with the way the war was going and Hitlers constant meddling I think russia would have won in the end.

At this point we agree. More talks. But when, not if that doesnt work its time to do something more.

Seems like Japan might beat you to it...
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060710/...kxBHNlYwN0bQ--

I would not object to a attack if it is clear without any shadow of a doubt that Kim will use a nuclear weapon if he gets a delivery vechicle.

She was told it was the same quality as absolut but cheaper.

We have a few brands I you ever find a bottle of koskenkorva vodka be sure to pic it up. Its finish vodka(I am 1/8 finnish and got a finnish surname so got to stand up for them aswell )

[RA]

Nah I think Russia would have won in the end. Not like Im a history expert but no country has ever beaten russia on there own ground. Those bastards always come back and **** you upp if germany wouldnt have had other fronts to worry about and if Hitler would have let his generals run the show I think they would have beaten russia. But with the way the war was going and Hitlers constant meddling I think russia would have won in the end.


Right, they had their hands full..with the U.S.






Seems like Japan might beat you to it...
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060710/...kxBHNlYwN0bQ--

I would not object to a attack if it is clear without any shadow of a doubt that Kim will use a nuclear weapon if he gets a delivery vechicle.


Yeah, they were waiting for us to step up. We didn't so they have to do something to protect themselves.

You would not know without a shadow of a doubt until the nuke is fired. Then its too late. You cant wait that long.


We have a few brands I you ever find a bottle of koskenkorva vodka be sure to pic it up. Its finish vodka(I am 1/8 finnish and got a finnish surname so got to stand up for them aswell )

My Grandma is 100% Fin. She grew up in the U.S. but her parents only spoke Finnish to her. Shes still got a thick accent. Maybe thats why Im such a pain in the arse..hey johan?

[Kärnfysikern]

Right, they had their hands full..with the U.S

Dont forget the stubborn britts in africa

Yeah, they were waiting for us to step up. We didn't so they have to do something to protect themselves.

You would not know without a shadow of a doubt until the nuke is fired. Then its too late. You cant wait that long.

Im kind of suprised that japan is thinking about that. Ever since ww2 they have been maby the most pacifistic country in the world.

well lets say 99% confidence like in they are fuling the ICBM's and you have trusthworthy intel that they are indeed armed with nukes..

My Grandma is 100% Fin. She grew up in the U.S. but her parents only spoke Finnish to her. Shes still got a thick accent. Maybe thats why Im such a pain in the arse..hey johan?

Maby we are related Finns are know to be stubborn bastards!

Do you love sauna as much as me?

[RA]

Dont forget the stubborn britts in africa



Im kind of suprised that japan is thinking about that. Ever since ww2 they have been maby the most pacifistic country in the world.

well lets say 99% confidence like in they are fuling the ICBM's and you have trusthworthy intel that they are indeed armed with nukes..


But what if you dont get the intel in time? What if he has nukes and has icbms and is making threats? Do you wait while your populous is scared out of there mind or do you hit them first?



Maby we are related Finns are know to be stubborn bastards!

Do you love sauna as much as me?

omg, thats funny as hell you brought up the sauna. All my relatives on that side of the family have one outside. I like em sometimes but Im not crazy about them like they are.

Saunas and pasty.

[Kärnfysikern]

But what if you dont get the intel in time? What if he has nukes and has icbms and is making threats? Do you wait while your populous is scared out of there mind or do you hit them first?

If he has them and is making definite threats that seems serious Im not sure. But right now Kim seems to be making mostly self defense related threats. Sanctions us and its war, attack us and we strike back ect. He hasnt made any claim that he wants to nuke you without provocation atleast.

I would still wait until the ICBM's are getting fuled because that can be spotted through sattelite.

omg, thats funny as hell you brought up the sauna. All my relatives on that side of the family have one outside. I like em sometimes but Im not crazy about them like they are.

Saunas and pasty.

I miss Sauna so ****ing much since I moved from northern sweden. Up there there is a sauna in each apartment block ect. Down here no one cares about sauna
there is nothing like a good sauna. Your relatives are wise men and women

[Phreak101]

I like the steam room personally

[RA]

If he has them and is making definite threats that seems serious Im not sure. But right now Kim seems to be making mostly self defense related threats. Sanctions us and its war, attack us and we strike back ect. He hasnt made any claim that he wants to nuke you without provocation atleast.

I would still wait until the ICBM's are getting fuled because that can be spotted through sattelite.

Self defense? I dont think anyone is talking about going after them unless they rattle the sabres.


I miss Sauna so ****ing much since I moved from northern sweden. Up there there is a sauna in each apartment block ect. Down here no one cares about sauna
there is nothing like a good sauna. Your relatives are wise men and women

Apparently one of their favorite things to do is sit in there until they get over heated and then jump in the snow..

I did an appraisal on this house and as soon as I found out the couple was Finnish I started looking for the sauna...they had a built in one...and were so proud of it.

[kdawg21]

Nah I think Russia would have won in the end. Not like Im a history expert but no country has ever beaten russia on there own ground. Those bastards always come back and **** you upp if germany wouldnt have had other fronts to worry about and if Hitler would have let his generals run the show I think they would have beaten russia. But with the way the war was going and Hitlers constant meddling I think russia would have won in the end.

Hitler and Napoleon both made the same mistake, invading russia and then leaving your troops over the winter it was not the Russian army that defeated their foes it was the weather and terrain. Hitler could possibly have crushed Russia had he just swallowed his pride and ended the seige of stalingrad and moved toward Moscow.

[ZIA1]

Hitler and Napoleon both made the same mistake, invading russia and then leaving your troops over the winter it was not the Russian army that defeated their foes it was the weather and terrain. Hitler could possibly have crushed Russia had he just swallowed his pride and ended the seige of stalingrad and moved toward Moscow.

The Nazis were trying to fight on too many fronts. They had no way of sustaining a long fight with Russia on Russian territory, especially during Russian winter. Stalingrad or not, they probably wouldn't have defeated the Red Army. Moreover, other nations wouldn't have allowed Moscow to fall.

[kdawg21]

I have to disagree, given the divergence of philosophies that were clearly evident at the first war conferences and much more eveident in later stages (potsdam, yalta, Tehran etc) I think that russia may very well have been conceided if it came to that. Now we are getting hypothetical, but who is to say that the increase in natural resources gained from defeating or taking a large part of russia would not have been enough to reinfuse the German Army?

[kdawg21]

If I may discuss something that I find puzzling, and Aiz perhaps you can help me with this, why is it that when people choose to deny the existance of the holocaust, they often neglect to include all of the Jews that were killed by Stalin and the communist party, I have read a few sources for some papers that indicated Stalin was responsible for more Jewish deaths than Hitler. Even should some nutcase deny the holocaust how would they account for all the deaths associated with the USSR? I think I asked M'gay and C this once and both refused to even mention it.......... selective memory I guess.

[firmechicano831]

yeah its dumb that many people still don't believe in the holocaust then their is pictures,video and people who witnessed it.

[ZIA1]

If I may discuss something that I find puzzling, and Aiz perhaps you can help me with this, why is it that when people choose to deny the existance of the holocaust, they often neglect to include all of the Jews that were killed by Stalin and the communist party, I have read a few sources for some papers that indicated Stalin was responsible for more Jewish deaths than Hitler. Even should some nutcase deny the holocaust how would they account for all the deaths associated with the USSR? I think I asked M'gay and C this once and both refused to even mention it.......... selective memory I guess.

I'll tell you what: I don't want this thread turned into a debate on the holocaust, which it will become. So, I'll PM you with an answer later this afternoon. Good question by the way but there is an answer. Will PM...

[The OutLord]

he he he .. N,k Is dangeres LOL