Some US Muslims justify suicide attacks

[BgMc31]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070522/...slim_americans

WASHINGTON - One in four younger U.S. Muslims say suicide bombings to defend their religion are acceptable at least in some circumstances, though most Muslim Americans overwhelmingly reject the tactic and are critical of Islamic extremism and al-Qaida, a poll says.

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The survey by the Pew Research Center, one of the most exhaustive ever of the country's Muslims, revealed a community that in many ways blends comfortably into society. Its largely mainstream members express nearly as much happiness with their lives and communities as the general public does, show a broad willingness to adopt American customs, and have income and education levels similar to others in the U.S.

Even so, the survey revealed noteworthy pockets of discontent.

While nearly 80 percent of U.S. Muslims say suicide bombings of civilians to defend Islam can not be justified, 13 percent say they can be, at least rarely.

That sentiment is strongest among those younger than 30. Two percent of them say it can often be justified, 13 percent say sometimes and 11 percent say rarely.

"It is a hair-raising number," said Radwan Masmoudi, president of the Washington-based Center for the Study of Islam and Democracy, which promotes the compatibility of Islam with democracy.

He said most supporters of the attacks likely assumed the context was a fight against occupation — a term Muslims often use to describe the conflict with Israel.

U.S. Muslims have growing Internet and television access to extreme ideologies, he said, adding: "People, especially younger people, are susceptible to these ideas."

Federal officials have warned that the U.S. must be on guard against homegrown terrorism, as the British suffered with the London transit bombings of 2005.

Even so, U.S. Muslims are far less accepting of suicide attacks than Muslims in many other nations. In surveys Pew conducted last year, support in some Muslim countries exceeded 50 percent, while it was considered justifiable by about one in four Muslims in Britain and Spain, and one in three in France.

"We have crazies just like other faiths have them," said Eide Alawan, who directs interfaith outreach at the Islamic Center of America in Dearborn, Mich., one of the nation's largest mosques. He said killing innocent people contradicts Islam.

Andrew Kohut, Pew director, said in an interview that support for the attacks represented "one of the few trouble spots" in the survey.

At a later news conference, he said much of that support could be attributed to age because the findings were consistent with numerous other surveys showing young people more inclined to violence and to support wars.

The poll briefly describes the rationales for and against "suicide bombing and other forms of violence against civilian targets" and then asks, "Do you personally feel that this kind of violence is often justified to defend Islam, sometimes justified, rarely justified, or never justified?"

The question did not specify where a suicide attack might occur, who might carry it out or what was meant by using a bombing to "defend Islam."

In other findings:

_Only 5 percent of U.S. Muslims expressed favorable views of the terrorist group al-Qaida, though about a fourth did not express an opinion.

_Six in 10 said they are concerned about a rise in Islamic extremism in the U.S., while three in four expressed similar worries about extremism around the world.

_Yet only one in four consider the U.S. war on terrorism a sincere attempt to curtail international terror. Only 40 percent said they believe Arab men carried out the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001.

_By six to one, they say the U.S. was wrong to invade Iraq, while a third say the same about Afghanistan — far deeper than the opposition expressed by the general U.S. public.

_Just over half said it has been harder being a U.S. Muslim since the 9/11 attacks, especially the better educated, higher income, more religious and young. Nearly a third of those who flew in the past year say they underwent extra screening because they are Muslim.

The survey estimates there are roughly 2.35 million Muslim Americans. It found that among adults, two-thirds are from abroad while a fifth are U.S.-born blacks.

By law, the Census Bureau does not ask about people's religions.

Telephone interviews were conducted with 1,050 Muslim adults from January through April, including some in Arabic, Urdu and Farsi. Subjects were chosen at random, from a separate list of households including some with Muslim-sounding names, and from Muslim households that had participated in previous surveys.

The margin of sampling error was plus or minus 5 percentage points.

___

[RA]

though most Muslim Americans overwhelmingly reject the tactic and are critical of Islamic extremism and al-Qaida, a poll says.


This is the part that surprises me.

[Act of God]

only 40% believe 9/11 was carried out by Arabs. Uh oh, tin foil helmet time!

[biglouie250]

only 40% believe 9/11 was carried out by Arabs. Uh oh, tin foil helmet time!

nah its a losers mentality. same as in the south they refer to the civil war as "the conflict with the north". Another example is how the majority of blacks sided with OJ.

[RamyGras]

though most Muslim Americans overwhelmingly reject the tactic and are critical of Islamic extremism and al-Qaida, a poll says.


This is the part that surprises me.

It shouldn't surprise you. Although, I understand why it does. Islam has been given a horrible reputation due to the acts of Al-Qaeda, so there is a huge resentment by most Muslims, especially in the West. I am personally most surprised by that 40% number.

[RamyGras]

only 40% believe 9/11 was carried out by Arabs. Uh oh, tin foil helmet time!

I think this would be a good time to quote Carlos Mencia.

[Prada]

Nothing really surprises me in the figures. This is what I've experienced with the muslims Ive dealt with. Actually most of the ones don't even talk about religion, alqaeeda or the war for that matter.

[singern]

One in four younger U.S. Muslims say suicide bombings to defend their religion are acceptable

25%.
Im sorry but this scares the hell out of me, as it should every other rational person. But I am confused how the general Muslim population can complain about racial profiling and general public attitude toward them while knowing these horrific stats. And knowing the numbers of those which infect there community they still do absolutely nothing .

[mcpeepants]

if you polled the US, how many would approve of bombing the hell out of Iran? this is equally reprehensible, do you guys think the same? remember how many approved of attacking Iraq. suicide bombings are just another way of killing people and not much different than killing people by missiles, bullets, etc.

[singern]

if you polled the US, how many would approve of bombing the hell out of Iran? this is equally reprehensible, do you guys think the same? remember how many approved of attacking Iraq. suicide bombings are just another way of killing people and not much different than killing people by missiles, bullets, etc.

This isnt a case of the "chicken or the egg". This is a case of action and reaction, If it were not for Extremist Islamic terrorism there would be no War on terror.

People of conscience may approve of bombing Iran due to the real and imminent danger that they pose, not because they are some kind of "infidels"

[doolo]

The only thing that creates more horific crimes then drugs is religion. Believe me the numbers would be very similar if not worse if the US was under attack. People would be readily disposing themselves to defend their country. Especially if everyone thought it was a holy war.

Ireland anyone???????????????????????????????????????????? ??????????????????????????????????????????????????

[singern]

The only thing that creates more horific crimes then drugs is religion. Believe me the numbers would be very similar if not worse if the US was under attack. People would be readily disposing themselves to defend their country. Especially if everyone thought it was a holy war.

Ireland anyone???????????????????????????????????????????? ??????????????????????????????????????????????????

Then please explain the bloodletting in Iraq, where Sunni killing Shia killing sunni.

And what about Lebanon, where Palestinians are killing Lebanese.
Or how about Turkey, Iran, Egypt, Saudi Arabia where suicide bombs and mass executions are a daily commonplace.

Im not aware of a foreign occupation happening in any of those places. Excuses and attempted justification of terrorism is a dead end street.

[BgMc31]

There is a justification for terrorism, its called desperation. And unfortunately it's working because everyday they are getting more and more people willing to put their lives on the line for their cause. We are missing the point on terrorism, nobody wants to talk about why these people are wanting to go through such extremes, and it's not just their religion. It's definately something deeper.

This war on terrorism is like the war on drugs, it is not winnable. We will never wipe out religious extremism, just like we will never wipe out people's want to get high. So instead of facing the true reason for extremism we just continue to attempt to scare people into believing that these people won't rest until all of us are dead and that simply isn't true.

Fearmongering is simply a tactic to counter the tactic of terrorism.

[singern]

There is a justification for terrorism, its called desperation. And unfortunately it's working because everyday they are getting more and more people willing to put their lives on the line for their cause. We are missing the point on terrorism, nobody wants to talk about why these people are wanting to go through such extremes, and it's not just their religion. It's definately something deeper.

I guess you didnt pay attention to the thread about Islamic/Arab childrens TV programs. You either dont get it, or dont want to get it. These people raise there children with hate instead of education, with the desire to kill instead of tolerance, and the ultimate insult to humanity "martyrdom"

I suggest you do your own search for Islamic/Arab childrens programs and text books, then come back and tell us how this is all due to some other reason we dont want to discuss...

[mcpeepants]

This isnt a case of the "chicken or the egg". This is a case of action and reaction, If it were not for Extremist Islamic terrorism there would be no War on terror.

People of conscience may approve of bombing Iran due to the real and imminent danger that they pose, not because they are some kind of "infidels"

If you didn't meddle around in the middle east, support dictatorships, overthrow governments, there would probably be no terrorism in the middle east. But then again, terrorism is just a tactic so it can never be defeated and the idea of a "war on terror" is as laughable as the "war on drugs."

I can turn on the TV any day and hear politicians, pundits, etc talking casually about bombing Iran and their "all options on the table" ranting. They talk about bombing a country like its a video game and never consider all the Iranians those bombings will be killing. They are no better than people who favor suicide bombing civilians to me. I'll argue someone, like those pundits and politicians, who support bombing Iran are people without conscience, or at least without good conscience.

[RA]

If you didn't meddle around in the middle east, support dictatorships, overthrow governments, there would probably be no terrorism in the middle east. But then again, terrorism is just a tactic so it can never be defeated and the idea of a "war on terror" is as laughable as the "war on drugs."

I can turn on the TV any day and hear politicians, pundits, etc talking casually about bombing Iran and their "all options on the table" ranting. They talk about bombing a country like its a video game and never consider all the Iranians those bombings will be killing. They are no better than people who favor suicide bombing civilians to me. I'll argue someone, like those pundits and politicians, who support bombing Iran are people without conscience, or at least without good conscience.

How is the U.S. hitting military targets the same as suicide bombers? To me thats some wacked out logic.

[mcpeepants]

How is the U.S. hitting military targets the same as suicide bombers? To me thats some wacked out logic.

Well what is to say the US is going to only hit military targets? And I suicide bombers doesn't have to hit civilians targets, they can hit military targets to. I consider war of aggression one of the most reprehensible crimes.

[singern]

If But then again, terrorism is just a tactic so it can never be defeated and the idea of a "war on terror" is as laughable as the "war on drugs." .

Are we to understand you are OK with terrorism and drugs? Personally I dont consider either one any kind of a joke........

[RA]

Well what is to say the US is going to only hit military targets? And I suicide bombers doesn't have to hit civilians targets, they can hit military targets to. I consider war of aggression one of the most reprehensible crimes.

Because the US policy is to go after military targets only. The suicide bombers Ive seen havent hit any military target. Unless soldiers are getting trained in pizza places around little kids.

[mcpeepants]

Are we to understand you are OK with terrorism and drugs? Personally I dont consider either one any kind of a joke........

I don't drink or do drug but I'm not going to stop other people from doing so. I would personally legalize it all because I don't see them as being any worse the cigarettes or liquor and let them face the responsibilities of there choices. Do you support terror because you seem to favor bombing Iran and don't seem to mind when Palestinians civilians get killed by Israeli missiles or bullets? I don't think people feel happy when missiles blow them up.

[BgMc31]

I guess you didnt pay attention to the thread about Islamic/Arab childrens TV programs. You either dont get it, or dont want to get it. These people raise there children with hate instead of education, with the desire to kill instead of tolerance, and the ultimate insult to humanity "martyrdom"

I suggest you do your own search for Islamic/Arab childrens programs and text books, then come back and tell us how this is all due to some other reason we dont want to discuss...

Don't insult my intelligence because I don't agree with you. I read the thread about Islamic/Arab children's programming, but I've also seen video of Israeli's treating Muslims/Arab badly. Unlike you, I'm am willing to see both sides ills and atrocities. You bias is clouding your judgement and simply thinking that Israel is a victim of Muslim/Arab extremism for no reason. They aren't perfect either, so maybe you don't get it... or don't want to.

And spare my the guilt trip about drugs and terrorism. Nobody is debating that both aren't bad, but you and people with your beliefs refuse to see the unlying and the ultimate reasoning why both happen. All you want everyone to believe is Israel is right and good and all Arabs/Muslims are bad. The scope goes deeper than that and maybe you should do some research with open eyes.

[mcpeepants]

Because the US policy is to go after military targets only. The suicide bombers Ive seen havent hit any military target. Unless soldiers are getting trained in pizza places around little kids.

Suicide bombers kill mostly soft target like civilians but they also killing military targets. So are you the US hasn't hit any non-military target In Iraq or Afghanistan?

[BgMc31]

Because the US policy is to go after military targets only. The suicide bombers Ive seen havent hit any military target. Unless soldiers are getting trained in pizza places around little kids.

The so-called terrorists in Iraq are responsible for road side bombs, right? And aren't those the leading cause of American Soldier deaths? Wasn't the most recent Israel/Lebanese conflict triggered by the a**uction of 3 Israeli soldiers by terrorists. Terrorists are opportunists, they attack the most effective targets, be it attacking a police station in Iraq or a nightclub in Israel.

[RA]

Like Ive said many many times in this forum there is a huge difference between targeting civilians and accidently hitting some while going after the enemy. Your just ignoring that because Im right.

Suicide bombers kill mostly soft target like civilians but they also killing military targets. So are you the US hasn't hit any non-military target In Iraq or Afghanistan?

[RA]

The so-called terrorists in Iraq are responsible for road side bombs, right? And aren't those the leading cause of American Soldier deaths? Wasn't the most recent Israel/Lebanese conflict triggered by the a**uction of 3 Israeli soldiers by terrorists. Terrorists are opportunists, they attack the most effective targets, be it attacking a police station in Iraq or a nightclub in Israel.

Thanks for your definition of a terrorist. You left out that they are cowardly dirtbags that blow up women and children.

[BgMc31]

Thanks for your definition of a terrorist. You left out that they are cowardly dirtbags that blow up women and children.

No I didn't leave them out. You stated that they don't hit military targets, that their sole method of attack is women and children. You're ability to think objectively is clouded by your hatred.

[RA]

No I didn't leave them out. You stated that they don't hit military targets, that their sole method of attack is women and children. You're ability to think objectively is clouded by your hatred.

I dont hate all terrorists. I just want all those mfkrs taking a dirt nap

Ok, maybe I do hate them. To me theres no honor in targeting kids and women. It takes the lowest form of scumbag to do that.

[mcpeepants]

No I didn't leave them out. You stated that they don't hit military targets, that their sole method of attack is women and children. You're ability to think objectively is clouded by your hatred.

posted on the wrong one

[mcpeepants]

Like Ive said many many times in this forum there is a huge difference between targeting civilians and accidently hitting some while going after the enemy. Your just ignoring that because Im right.

letting innocent bystanders get killed so you can kill your man shows a disregard for innocent life. thinking otherwise may help you sleep at night but it doesn't change the fact that you treated those lives as disposable. this is something that Americans would not tolerate if the police or military did it in the US but it is acceptable when it happens in Iraq, Afghanistan, Palestine, Pakistan, etc.

[RA]

letting innocent bystanders get killed so you can kill your man shows a disregard for innocent life. thinking otherwise may help you sleep at night but it doesn't change the fact that you treated those lives as disposable. this is something that Americans would not tolerate if the police or military did it in the US but it is acceptable when it happens in Iraq, Afghanistan, Palestine, Pakistan, etc.

Here I thought we were comparing the two.

[mcpeepants]

Here I thought we were comparing the two.

I gave my oppinion on why i think suicide bombers who target civilians and people who accept collateral damage have a disrespect for innocent lives. in one case you're deliberately target civilians and in the another who see civilians in your target and still release the missiles in disregard of their lives. both acts are equally despicable to me. would you accept the collateral damage argument if it was being done in the US by the police, FBI, DEA, ATF, etc on American citizens?

[RA]

I gave my oppinion on why i think suicide bombers who target civilians and people who accept collateral damage have a disrespect for innocent lives. in one case you're deliberately target civilians and in the another who see civilians in your target and still release the missiles in disregard of their lives. both acts are equally despicable to me. would you accept the collateral damage argument if it was being done in the US by the police, FBI, DEA, ATF, etc on American citizens?

It is done by those organizations but again they, as policy dictates, do not target innocents. Your not going to convince me that the theres excuse for the terrorists to do what they do and that we are somehow as bad or worse. The U.S. just isnt. We absolutly try not to hit any civilians.

[***xxx***]

there is no justification for targeting civilians.

[mcpeepants]

It is done by those organizations but again they, as policy dictates, do not target innocents. Your not going to convince me that the theres excuse for the terrorists to do what they do and that we are somehow as bad or worse. The U.S. just isnt. We absolutly try not to hit any civilians.

policy doesn't prevent it. if you see a mother and her child is in your target and you shoot anyways, you've shown by pushing that trigger that their life is disposable to you. it's cliche but actions speak louder than words.

[RA]

there is no justification for targeting civilians.

Exactly...

[RamyGras]

It is done by those organizations but again they, as policy dictates, do not target innocents. Your not going to convince me that the theres excuse for the terrorists to do what they do and that we are somehow as bad or worse. The U.S. just isnt. We absolutly try not to hit any civilians.

I'm not trying to convince you that terrorism is acceptable. You'd have to convince me first. The fact that we try not to hit any civilians is true. We'd rather not. But don't we? The number of Iraqis dead so far has been placed at around 150,000 by most of the world. Our president has even thrown the number of 30,000 around. So, we'll accept that as a minimum. Let's be honest here, although we'd rather not kill civilians, it happens and it's accepted.

Please don't respond by saying something like "you can't convince me terrorism is okay". I'm not. I'm just saying that civilian casualties happen in war. And, it sucks for everybody involved.

[Lexed]

this war is gonna last many generations... even after we leave Iraq

[Act of God]

this war is gonna last many generations... even after we leave Iraq

Just to clarify, the "war" in Iraq ended soon after it started. While the media loves to talk about the War in Iraq (it is a catchy headline), the war has been over for a long time. This is the subsequent occupation/rebuilding after we smited them.

[***xxx***]

Just to clarify, the "war" in Iraq ended soon after it started. While the media loves to talk about the War in Iraq (it is a catchy headline), the war has been over for a long time. This is the subsequent occupation/rebuilding after we smited them.

well wut do u call it? civil war? is that such a big difference?

[BgMc31]

Just to clarify, the "war" in Iraq ended soon after it started. While the media loves to talk about the War in Iraq (it is a catchy headline), the war has been over for a long time. This is the subsequent occupation/rebuilding after we smited them.

It's not just the media throwing out this catch phrase. It's the administration using it as well. But like XXX says, what would you call it?