"Good Riddance Attention Whore"

[gaven84]

"Good Riddance Attention Whore"
by CindySheehan
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2007/5/28/12530/1525
Mon May 28, 2007 at 09:57:01 AM PDT
I have endured a lot of smear and hatred since Casey was killed and especially since I became the so-called "Face" of the American anti-war movement. Especially since I renounced any tie I have remaining with the Democratic Party, I have been further trashed on such "liberal blogs" as the Democratic Underground. Being called an "attention whore" and being told "good riddance" are some of the more milder rebukes.

CindySheehan's diary :: ::
I have come to some heartbreaking conclusions this Memorial Day Morning. These are not spur of the moment reflections, but things I have been meditating on for about a year now. The conclusions that I have slowly and very reluctantly come to are very heartbreaking to me.

The first conclusion is that I was the darling of the so-called left as long as I limited my protests to George Bush and the Republican Party. Of course, I was slandered and libeled by the right as a "tool" of the Democratic Party. This label was to marginalize me and my message. How could a woman have an original thought, or be working outside of our "two-party" system?

However, when I started to hold the Democratic Party to the same standards that I held the Republican Party, support for my cause started to erode and the "left" started labeling me with the same slurs that the right used. I guess no one paid attention to me when I said that the issue of peace and people dying for no reason is not a matter of "right or left", but "right and wrong."

I am deemed a radical because I believe that partisan politics should be left to the wayside when hundreds of thousands of people are dying for a war based on lies that is supported by Democrats and Republican alike. It amazes me that people who are sharp on the issues and can zero in like a laser beam on lies, misrepresentations, and political expediency when it comes to one party refuse to recognize it in their own party. Blind party loyalty is dangerous whatever side it occurs on. People of the world look on us Americans as jokes because we allow our political leaders so much murderous latitude and if we don’t find alternatives to this corrupt "two" party system our Representative Republic will die and be replaced with what we are rapidly descending into with nary a check or balance: a fascist corporate wasteland. I am demonized because I don’t see party affiliation or nationality when I look at a person, I see that person’s heart. If someone looks, dresses, acts, talks and votes like a Republican, then why do they deserve support just because he/she calls him/herself a Democrat?

I have also reached the conclusion that if I am doing what I am doing because I am an "attention whore" then I really need to be committed. I have invested everything I have into trying to bring peace with justice to a country that wants neither. If an individual wants both, then normally he/she is not willing to do more than walk in a protest march or sit behind his/her computer criticizing others. I have spent every available cent I got from the money a "grateful" country gave me when they killed my son and every penny that I have received in speaking or book fees since then. I have sacrificed a 29 year marriage and have traveled for extended periods of time away from Casey’s brother and sisters and my health has suffered and my hospital bills from last summer (when I almost died) are in collection because I have used all my energy trying to stop this country from slaughtering innocent human beings. I have been called every despicable name that small minds can think of and have had my life threatened many times.

The most devastating conclusion that I reached this morning, however, was that Casey did indeed die for nothing. His precious lifeblood drained out in a country far away from his family who loves him, killed by his own country which is beholden to and run by a war machine that even controls what we think. I have tried every since he died to make his sacrifice meaningful. Casey died for a country which cares more about who will be the next American Idol than how many people will be killed in the next few months while Democrats and Republicans play politics with human lives. It is so painful to me to know that I bought into this system for so many years and Casey paid the price for that allegiance. I failed my boy and that hurts the most.

I have also tried to work within a peace movement that often puts personal egos above peace and human life. This group won’t work with that group; he won’t attend an event if she is going to be there; and why does Cindy Sheehan get all the attention anyway? It is hard to work for peace when the very movement that is named after it has so many divisions.

Our brave young men and women in Iraq have been abandoned there indefinitely by their cowardly leaders who move them around like pawns on a chessboard of destruction and the people of Iraq have been doomed to death and fates worse than death by people worried more about elections than people. However, in five, ten, or fifteen years, our troops will come limping home in another abject defeat and ten or twenty years from then, our children’s children will be seeing their loved ones die for no reason, because their grandparents also bought into this corrupt system. George Bush will never be impeached because if the Democrats dig too deeply, they may unearth a few skeletons in their own graves and the system will perpetuate itself in perpetuity.

I am going to take whatever I have left and go home. I am going to go home and be a mother to my surviving children and try to regain some of what I have lost. I will try to maintain and nurture some very positive relationships that I have found in the journey that I was forced into when Casey died and try to repair some of the ones that have fallen apart since I began this single-minded crusade to try and change a paradigm that is now, I am afraid, carved in immovable, unbendable and rigidly mendacious marble.

Camp Casey has served its purpose. It’s for sale. Anyone want to buy five beautiful acres in Crawford , Texas ? I will consider any reasonable offer. I hear George Bush will be moving out soon, too...which makes the property even more valuable.

This is my resignation letter as the "face" of the American anti-war movement. This is not my "Checkers" moment, because I will never give up trying to help people in the world who are harmed by the empire of the good old US of A, but I am finished working in, or outside of this system. This system forcefully resists being helped and eats up the people who try to help it. I am getting out before it totally consumes me or anymore people that I love and the rest of my resources.

Good-bye America ...you are not the country that I love and I finally realized no matter how much I sacrifice, I can’t make you be that country unless you want it.

It’s up to you now.

[eliteforce]

Shes right about America's 2 party system; it's not a real democracy-politics is not a this or that. America is the only 'democracy' in the world that has a 2 party system and the parties don't really stand for anything in particular--they just sort of get funding by some corporation or some other rich person to puresue his agenda.

[SneakyMofo]

Shes right about America's 2 party system; it's not a real democracy-politics is not a this or that. America is the only 'democracy' in the world that has a 2 party system and the parties don't really stand for anything in particular--they just sort of get funding by some corporation or some other rich person to puresue his agenda.

Nah its like that in most western countries, not just the US.

Look at us in the UK, we got Labour and Conservatives....can you tell the difference? i cant!

[RA]

Her 15 minutes is gone and shes crying about it. Way to use your kids death lady.

[biglouie250]

Her 15 minutes is gone and shes crying about it. Way to use your kids death lady.

your right. i wish those that sent her son to war can feel her pain.

[gixxerboy1]

Her 15 minutes is gone and shes crying about it. Way to use your kids death lady.

The reason i believe this is because she was able to leave her other kids behind and loose her marriage over her new fame. I know people who have lost children. The remaining family is whats because most important and being a good mom she should have been there fro her other child. I understand her cause but her family should have been a priority not her protest. She is a POS IMO

[kfrost06]

Her 15 minutes is gone and shes crying about it. Way to use your kids death lady.

My thoughts exactly.

[kfrost06]

Here's an excert from

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070529/...4gwBI6EWfMWM0F

"Last year, with $52,500 in insurance money she received after her son's death, Sheehan bought 5 acres near downtown Crawford as a permanent site for protests.

"Camp Casey has served its purpose," she wrote in the diary. "It's for sale. Anyone want to buy five beautiful acres in Crawford, Texas?""

She was used by the anti-bush cause, they and her used hers sons death and now no one needs her and everything was for nothing and she is left all alone Lost her living family and her cause doesn't need her so they kick her to the curve and she now has a long lonely life ahead of her.

It's SAD all the way around.

[RA]

We have a volunteer force bro. You dont sign up to build a house unless you want to pound nails.

your right. i wish those that sent her son to war can feel her pain.

[biglouie250]

We have a volunteer force bro. You dont sign up to build a house unless you want to pound nails.

but you'd expect that if your willing to give your life for the greater good that the elected officials would make sure that they got it right. i dont think that cindy sheehan would be such a bitch if we were toppling adolf hitler and the nazi regime. but that is just not the case, and the more info we have recieved about the war and pre-war intelligence and how it was handled has only pissed off and alienated more people.

[RA]

Thats just your opinion. Not fact.

Your just jumping on the lib train. All those spaghetti spined bastards were on board before we went.

but you'd expect that if your willing to give your life for the greater good that the elected officials would make sure that they got it right. i dont think that cindy sheehan would be such a bitch if we were toppling adolf hitler and the nazi regime. but that is just not the case, and the more info we have recieved about the war and pre-war intelligence and how it was handled has only pissed off and alienated more people.

[biglouie250]

Thats just your opinion. Not fact.

Your just jumping on the lib train. All those spaghetti spined bastards were on board before we went.

everyone was on board. we were told iraq was a threat and had WMDs....there is no shame in admitting your wrong.

[RA]

everyone was on board. we were told iraq was a threat and had WMDs....there is no shame in admitting your wrong.

Then we can all sit around the campfire with the taliban and sing songs, roast marshmellows, etc

cmon louie, I know thats your lib half. Theres a more conservative side in there waiting to get out. Ive seen it in some of your posts.

[biglouie250]

lol i dabble in conservatism and liberalism. i think we should have leveled the country if were gonna go to war. but to go in half assed and risk american lives daily is crazy, especially now when it seems our pretenses for war were wrong.

[RamyGras]

lol i dabble in conservatism and liberalism. i think we should have leveled the country if were gonna go to war. but to go in half assed and risk american lives daily is crazy, especially now when it seems our pretenses for war were wrong.

Well if you're saying our pretenses for war was wrong, then it's a good thing we didn't level the country when we went to war. It's a good thing you dabble in conservatism and liberalism. Completely choosing one side of thinking is not open minded and can leave you sounding foolish.

[Prada]

"'I'm not giving up,' Sheehan tells radio host Schultz"

Can listen to her radio interview here
http://rawstory.com/news/2007/Cindy_...show_0529.html

[RA]

Well if you're saying our pretenses for war was wrong, then it's a good thing we didn't level the country when we went to war. It's a good thing you dabble in conservatism and liberalism. Completely choosing one side of thinking is not open minded and can leave you sounding foolish.

Yeah and if your always on the fence you sound like you dont have a pair left.

[ginkobulloba]

Well if you're saying our pretenses for war was wrong, then it's a good thing we didn't level the country when we went to war. It's a good thing you dabble in conservatism and liberalism. Completely choosing one side of thinking is not open minded and can leave you sounding foolish.

Ditto, it seems ignorant to me to go along with the left/right of an issue without looking at the issue objectively and then making a decision on your own.

On the Cindy Sheehan note, I do sympathize with her for losing her son. I know if I had died over there, my mom would never recover from something like that. Yes, this and most wars is based on bs and comes down to a select group of people getting paid out, but one mother can't change that and it was a losing battle to begin with. I know she felt she had to do something to honor her son, but it sounds like her family was neglected due to her decision.

I initially had (and still do) a negative opinion of what she's doing because her son volunteered willingly to serve his country. He wasn't drafted and it was a decision he made. To me, as a veteran of this war, it looks like she used his death for her cause, that even as his mother, she didn't really have a right to do. He was his own man.

[Mike Dura]

Attention whore? There may (or may not) be some truth to that but something tells me there's just a little more to it than that.

[Giants11]

We're in a tough spot here. We went in there because "we knew" they had WMD's and we obviously were very concerned. Even though I believe I have seen intelligence reports, pre-war that stated Iraq did not have the capabilities to use them against the US.

So, after that whole debacle, our attitude has once again changed. Now we are liberating the Iraqi people and defending our freedom from the oppressive regime that once ruled. However we failed to understand the two factions of Muslims within Iraq and the fact that a Democracy might not suit them and would only induce an all out Civil War.

Roid, you say have a camp fire with the Taliban....Iraq should have never been a priority, we should have mobilized all forces and went into Afghanistan and leveled it, and killed Osama Bin Landen. Now we are still searching for him while Iraq is a complete disaster. Instead couple of thousand troops went to fight the Taliban and the majority wen to Iraq, who at the time did not pose a significant threat.

Now of course we are stretched very thin with North Korea and Iran coming up on the radar.

I'd be pissed as hell too, if my son Died in Iraq. He would not have died for my freedom, he would have died for Oil, Corporate profits, The Iraqi people's freedom and the Military Industrial Complex.

[Prada]

^^^I totally agree, all along it was under false pretenses. First it was said they had WMDs, then to free the Iraqi people of a flagitious dictator. Then it became that Saddam had close links and supported Al-Qaeeda. So all that has been done is stimulate a power vacuum which will lead to god knows what. Perhaps a hostile, fundamentalist orientated mullah? We should have concentrated on Afghanistan, Saddam was a nuisance and a concern but not an immediate threat. Yet Iraq and Afghanistan are perpetual wars that we are not winning.

We're in a tough spot here. We went in there because "we knew" they had WMD's and we obviously were very concerned. Even though I believe I have seen intelligence reports, pre-war that stated Iraq did not have the capabilities to use them against the US.

Not capable of delivering to America but Amercain interests.

[Giants11]

^^^I totally agree, all along it was under false pretenses. First it was said they had WMDs, then to free the Iraqi people of a flagitious dictator. Then it became that Saddam had close links and supported Al-Qaeeda. So all that has been done is stimulate a power vacuum which will lead to god knows what. Perhaps a hostile, fundamentalist orientated mullah? We should have concentrated on Afghanistan, Saddam was a nuisance and a concern but not an immediate threat. Yet Iraq and Afghanistan are perpetual wars that we are not winning.



Not capable of delivering to America but Amercain interests.

Exactly.

[RA]

We're in a tough spot here. We went in there because "we knew" they had WMD's and we obviously were very concerned. Even though I believe I have seen intelligence reports, pre-war that stated Iraq did not have the capabilities to use them against the US.

So, after that whole debacle, our attitude has once again changed. Now we are liberating the Iraqi people and defending our freedom from the oppressive regime that once ruled. However we failed to understand the two factions of Muslims within Iraq and the fact that a Democracy might not suit them and would only induce an all out Civil War.

Roid, you say have a camp fire with the Taliban....Iraq should have never been a priority, we should have mobilized all forces and went into Afghanistan and leveled it, and killed Osama Bin Landen. Now we are still searching for him while Iraq is a complete disaster. Instead couple of thousand troops went to fight the Taliban and the majority wen to Iraq, who at the time did not pose a significant threat.

Now of course we are stretched very thin with North Korea and Iran coming up on the radar.

I'd be pissed as hell too, if my son Died in Iraq. He would not have died for my freedom, he would have died for Oil, Corporate profits, The Iraqi people's freedom and the Military Industrial Complex.

I think its 100% bs to say that he did not die for our freedom. Dont you think they would be planning several attacks inside our country if we were not over there?

As far as the pre war intel, its easy to be an armchair QB. Like Ive said on many occasions, Republicans and Democrats were totally behind the war based on the information we had. Now, we are in Iraq. What do we do? Pull out? Terrible for us. It would just be another training ground for terrorists run by Iran.

Ive always said Republicans look at the big picture. Thats why it was a Rep that ended the cold war.

Getting Bin Laden sounds easy. If it were that easy, dont you think our military would have done it by now? Why do you think they were able to defeat the soviets? Millions of places to hide. Id love to kill the bastard too.

Something everyone forgets also is that Cindy Sheehan met with the president right after her son was killed. She said "You could tell he really felt my sons death" Thats before the anti war movement got their claws in her. But it was her choice to use her sons death for 15 minutes of fame.

[RA]

In case anyone doesnt think the Democrats agreed....they were making a case for war long before Bush

http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/b/bushlied.htm


Like I said, spaghetti spined.

[Giants11]

I think its 100% bs to say that he did not die for our freedom. Dont you think they would be planning several attacks inside our country if we were not over there?

As far as the pre war intel, its easy to be an armchair QB. Like Ive said on many occasions, Republicans and Democrats were totally behind the war based on the information we had. Now, we are in Iraq. What do we do? Pull out? Terrible for us. It would just be another training ground for terrorists run by Iran.

Ive always said Republicans look at the big picture. Thats why it was a Rep that ended the cold war.

Getting Bin Laden sounds easy. If it were that easy, dont you think our military would have done it by now? Why do you think they were able to defeat the soviets? Millions of places to hide. Id love to kill the bastard too.

Something everyone forgets also is that Cindy Sheehan met with the president right after her son was killed. She said "You could tell he really felt my sons death" Thats before the anti war movement got their claws in her. But it was her choice to use her sons death for 15 minutes of fame.

The soldiers fighting in Iraq are not fighting for my freedom. I can say that with all honesty. Saddam never attacked US soil, he was not even a threat.. The immediate threat was Bin Laden, and do I think it was easy to get him, no. No way in hell. I understand why the Soviets lost. But I also know we would have had a better chance at success if we went in there with everything we had. But what we did was simultaneously invade Iraq diverting our troops to the actual threat.


In Cairo, on February 24 2001, Powell said: "He (Saddam Hussein) has not developed any significant capability with respect to weapons of mass destruction. He is unable to project conventional power against his neighbors."

I understand the fact that the both Dems and Republicans wanted the war. However I still think the current administration pushed very hard for this war, it was a war that Bush wanted on so many levels. What else could explain why we went there.

I am not an International Politics professional by any means. But I knew as well as many other I talked to as we went to war with Iraq that an Iraqi Civil War was extremely possible. I believe we greatly greatly underestimated this fact and now are troops are over there dying in the middle of a war that goes back thousands of years, this is something that American's do not understand and now we are in an impossible situation.

I may come off like a dick, but this is how I feel. The troops over in Iraq are fighting for the Iraqi's Freedom, their "right" to a democratic society. And my point it I could give a fvck less about the Iraqi's and their freedom, I just don't care. I'd rather have our troops fighting Iran or North Korea, people who are engaging in nuclear programs. That's just me though and I don't profit from war.

[muscle justice]

In case anyone doesnt think the Democrats agreed....they were making a case for war long before Bush

http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/b/bushlied.htm


Like I said, spaghetti spined.

Those are some great quotes that Im sure no one on the left will remember or acknowledge. The left never misses an opportunity to shoot themselves in the ass, and just because we haven't yet found the WMDs doesnt mean they dont exist, not to mention the real and as yet undetermined possibility that the WMDs were sent to syria before the US invasion.

As to Cindy Sheehan, I believe she has completely dishonored the service and sacrifice her son proudly gave his country.

[muscle justice]

I'd rather have our troops fighting Iran or North Korea, people who are engaging in nuclear programs. That's just me though and I don't profit from war.

Thanks to the Israeli's the Iraqi Nuke program was destroyed, the fact that Sadam was attempting to rebuild is no secret to any body.
So yes we could certainly have sent our troops to NK or Iran, but in due time we would be right back in Iraq.

[RA]

The soldiers fighting in Iraq are not fighting for my freedom. I can say that with all honesty. Saddam never attacked US soil, he was not even a threat.. The immediate threat was Bin Laden, and do I think it was easy to get him, no. No way in hell. I understand why the Soviets lost. But I also know we would have had a better chance at success if we went in there with everything we had. But what we did was simultaneously invade Iraq diverting our troops to the actual threat.

We will have to just agree to disagree that it makes us safer...

You may have a point with respect to using more troops. Im not 100% sure more would have helped though.

In Cairo, on February 24 2001, Powell said: "He (Saddam Hussein) has not developed any significant capability with respect to weapons of mass destruction. He is unable to project conventional power against his neighbors."

Then hes the only one that thought that.

I understand the fact that the both Dems and Republicans wanted the war. However I still think the current administration pushed very hard for this war, it was a war that Bush wanted on so many levels. What else could explain why we went there.

You want me to find more Democrat quotes/speeches?

I am not an International Politics professional by any means. But I knew as well as many other I talked to as we went to war with Iraq that an Iraqi Civil War was extremely possible. I believe we greatly greatly underestimated this fact and now are troops are over there dying in the middle of a war that goes back thousands of years, this is something that American's do not understand and now we are in an impossible situation.

I may come off like a dick, but this is how I feel. The troops over in Iraq are fighting for the Iraqi's Freedom, their "right" to a democratic society. And my point it I could give a fvck less about the Iraqi's and their freedom, I just don't care. I'd rather have our troops fighting Iran or North Korea, people who are engaging in nuclear programs. That's just me though and I don't profit from war.

I pointed out the fact if we left, Iran would be running it in 6 months or less and training anyone and everyone to come after us. Its not about WMD's or any of the other bullshit now. We need to stay until Iraq is able to police itself. The pentagon is talking about troop reduction because the Iraqi police force is growing in number and power.

You mentioned hitting Iran. Mark my words, if a Rep president attacks Iran they will be demonized the same way Bush has been over Iraq.

[Giants11]

We will have to just agree to disagree that it makes us safer...

You may have a point with respect to using more troops. Im not 100% sure more would have helped though.



Then hes the only one that thought that.



You want me to find more Democrat quotes/speeches?


I pointed out the fact if we left, Iran would be running it in 6 months or less and training anyone and everyone to come after us. Its not about WMD's or any of the other bullshit now. We need to stay until Iraq is able to police itself. The pentagon is talking about troop reduction because the Iraqi police force is growing in number and power.

You mentioned hitting Iran. Mark my words, if a Rep president attacks Iran they will be demonized the same way Bush has been over Iraq.

We will have to just agree to disagree

The Germans discovered it in 1904, and they called it "San Diego", which in German means "whale's vagina".

[RA]

The Germans discovered it in 1904, and they called it "San Diego", which in German means "whale's vagina".

My God, what is that smell? Oh.
That's the smell of desire my lady.
God no, it smells like, like a used diaper... filled with... Indian food. Oh, excuse me.
You know, desire smells like that to some people
What is that? Smells like a turd covered in burnt hair.
Smells like Bigfoot's dick.

[RamyGras]

Yeah and if your always on the fence you sound like you dont have a pair left.

What I clearly meant, and you CHOSE not to comprehend, was that you can agree with Republicans on certain topics and agree with Democrats on certain topics. However, choosing to "pick a team" is ignorant.

Your "I hate Democrats" speeches are getting old. I'm positive you can come up with a thousand quotes making Democrats sound dumb, and I'm sure somebody else can do the same with Republicans. Did you ever stop and think it may not be the party that's an ass, but the person speaking?

You can go against the grain every once in a while and not "be on the fence". And, good news, you get to keep your pair!!!!

[Giants11]

Perhaps we should move this into the politics section.....

[mcpeepants]

everyone was on board. we were told iraq was a threat and had WMDs....there is no shame in admitting your wrong.

everybody was not on board. i was opposed to the Iraq and Afghanistan before they started, i'm opposed to the "war on terror", i was opposed to the Iraq sanctions and Clinton's bombing of Iraq as part of the "no fly zone" and operation desert fox. there were many people who warned and predicted the outcome of invading Iraq and Bush's case for wmd was laughable. and even if Saddam had wmd, that is not justification for war because he had not attacked the US or was immediately about to attack us. Bush and his administration play on Americans fear of terrorism after 9-11 in an attempt to justify anything. The media and democrats should call him out but they were busy mostly being parrots, cheerleaders or rolling over.

[mcpeepants]

The soldiers fighting in Iraq are not fighting for my freedom. I can say that with all honesty. Saddam never attacked US soil, he was not even a threat.. The immediate threat was Bin Laden, and do I think it was easy to get him, no. No way in hell. I understand why the Soviets lost. But I also know we would have had a better chance at success if we went in there with everything we had. But what we did was simultaneously invade Iraq diverting our troops to the actual threat.


In Cairo, on February 24 2001, Powell said: "He (Saddam Hussein) has not developed any significant capability with respect to weapons of mass destruction. He is unable to project conventional power against his neighbors."

I understand the fact that the both Dems and Republicans wanted the war. However I still think the current administration pushed very hard for this war, it was a war that Bush wanted on so many levels. What else could explain why we went there.

I am not an International Politics professional by any means. But I knew as well as many other I talked to as we went to war with Iraq that an Iraqi Civil War was extremely possible. I believe we greatly greatly underestimated this fact and now are troops are over there dying in the middle of a war that goes back thousands of years, this is something that American's do not understand and now we are in an impossible situation.

I may come off like a dick, but this is how I feel. The troops over in Iraq are fighting for the Iraqi's Freedom, their "right" to a democratic society. And my point it I could give a fvck less about the Iraqi's and their freedom, I just don't care. I'd rather have our troops fighting Iran or North Korea, people who are engaging in nuclear programs. That's just me though and I don't profit from war.

Why so negative about the Iraqi people? We were the one's that invaded the and caused the power vacuum by removing Saddam which has led to the countries instability.

Why would you think attacking Iran or North Korea would be a better idea than attacking Iraq? Iran is three times larger than Iraq with nearly three times the population with a much stronger military and a much better ability to retaliate. North Korea has an even stronger military and can projects it weapons further than Iran and could hits US military bases in Korea, Japan and maybe Alaska and the continental US. Not to mention what China and Russia might do with US troops so close to their border.

There is nothing wrong with engaging in a nuclear programs. It's legal for countries to develop nuclear power under the NPT. Countries need energy and nuclear is a clean and available source and we all know oil and gas what last forever.

[mcpeepants]

I pointed out the fact if we left, Iran would be running it in 6 months or less and training anyone and everyone to come after us. Its not about WMD's or any of the other bullshit now. We need to stay until Iraq is able to police itself. The pentagon is talking about troop reduction because the Iraqi police force is growing in number and power.

You mentioned hitting Iran. Mark my words, if a Rep president attacks Iran they will be demonized the same way Bush has been over Iraq.

You haven't proven that as a fact Iran will take over when we leave. Iran will continue being an ally with the Iraqi government even if we leave because the government is shia like Iran. If Iran tried to take over Iraq, they would face the same resistance that is happening to the US and it's allies. It would also face resistance from arab and kurdish minorities in their country which could lead to the desintegration of Iran. Not to mention it would have to deal with around 200 million pissed of Arab neighbors.

[Prada]

I think some people are wrongfully equating the war on "terror" with the war in Iraq. Yes everybody is on board as far as the war on terror, even Canada, France, Dems and Repubs. People are against the war in Iraq and more so against the fact that we have no plan whatsoever.

[Mike Dura]

The plans for Iraq were in the making long before 9/11. 9/11 was just the opportunity to carry them out. To be sure, an ideologically driven war was not justified. The administration had ambitious plans for becoming the new Roman empire. It's just ashame how the media fell into bed with the administration. It's also ashame that the American public are a bunch of dupes. Democracy works best with an educated and critical minded public and a "free" press. Media concentration has underminded that latter. It's sad.

The soldiers fighting in Iraq are not fighting for my freedom. I can say that with all honesty. Saddam never attacked US soil, he was not even a threat.. The immediate threat was Bin Laden, and do I think it was easy to get him, no. No way in hell. I understand why the Soviets lost. But I also know we would have had a better chance at success if we went in there with everything we had. But what we did was simultaneously invade Iraq diverting our troops to the actual threat.


In Cairo, on February 24 2001, Powell said: "He (Saddam Hussein) has not developed any significant capability with respect to weapons of mass destruction. He is unable to project conventional power against his neighbors."

I understand the fact that the both Dems and Republicans wanted the war. However I still think the current administration pushed very hard for this war, it was a war that Bush wanted on so many levels. What else could explain why we went there.

I am not an International Politics professional by any means. But I knew as well as many other I talked to as we went to war with Iraq that an Iraqi Civil War was extremely possible. I believe we greatly greatly underestimated this fact and now are troops are over there dying in the middle of a war that goes back thousands of years, this is something that American's do not understand and now we are in an impossible situation.

I may come off like a dick, but this is how I feel. The troops over in Iraq are fighting for the Iraqi's Freedom, their "right" to a democratic society. And my point it I could give a fvck less about the Iraqi's and their freedom, I just don't care. I'd rather have our troops fighting Iran or North Korea, people who are engaging in nuclear programs. That's just me though and I don't profit from war.

[RA]

Didnt mean to get your panties in a bunch. Im just sick and tired of everyone walking around saying "Im a moderate" psst.. For 99.99% of the people that say that, they are liberal or conservative but are just too chickenshit to be called one or the other.

What I clearly meant, and you CHOSE not to comprehend, was that you can agree with Republicans on certain topics and agree with Democrats on certain topics. However, choosing to "pick a team" is ignorant.

Your "I hate Democrats" speeches are getting old. I'm positive you can come up with a thousand quotes making Democrats sound dumb, and I'm sure somebody else can do the same with Republicans. Did you ever stop and think it may not be the party that's an ass, but the person speaking?

You can go against the grain every once in a while and not "be on the fence". And, good news, you get to keep your pair!!!!

[Giants11]

[/B]

Why so negative about the Iraqi people? We were the one's that invaded the and caused the power vacuum by removing Saddam which has led to the countries instability.

Why would you think attacking Iran or North Korea would be a better idea than attacking Iraq? Iran is three times larger than Iraq with nearly three times the population with a much stronger military and a much better ability to retaliate. North Korea has an even stronger military and can projects it weapons further than Iran and could hits US military bases in Korea, Japan and maybe Alaska and the continental US. Not to mention what China and Russia might do with US troops so close to their border.

There is nothing wrong with engaging in a nuclear programs. It's legal for countries to develop nuclear power under the NPT. Countries need energy and nuclear is a clean and available source and we all know oil and gas what last forever.

It's not that I am negative about the Iraqi people. But I care more about American's, being that I am one. So my point was that I could careless about freeing the Iraqi people, if it means that US Soldiers are dying for it. It is not our job to impose a democracy on every nation out there. We need to handle those who are direct threats to the US, Iraq I believe was not one, so therefor I don't think we should be there. Which I guess in turn means that I do not care right now for the Iraqi people. I hope that makes more sense.

[BgMc31]

Didnt mean to get your panties in a bunch. Im just sick and tired of everyone walking around saying "Im a moderate" psst.. For 99.99% of the people that say that, they are liberal or conservative but are just too chickenshit to be called one or the other.

I understand what you are saying Roid, but calling someone chickenshit because they don't pick a side isn't fair. The majority of the American public don't want to label themselves either conservative or liberal, they want to make decisions based on the issues.