Pro-war Supporters Outnumber Peace Activist In Berkeley...

**Logan13** · 10-18-2007, 03:14 PM

PRO-WAR SUPPORTERS OUTNUMBER PEACE ACTIVIST IN BERKELEY... http://www.contracostatimes.com/news...nclick_check=1

BERKELEY -- Flag-waving demonstrators far outnumbered a group of peace advocates who were protesting a U.S. Marine Corps recruiting center in downtown on Wednesday.
But groups on both sides of Shattuck Avenue slowed traffic and jammed sidewalks as they shouted back and forth at each other.

Police kept the two competing groups across the street from each other; there were no arrests.

One protester who was burning something was cited by police after he was warned by officers not to burn anything in public, said police spokeswoman Sgt. Mary Kusmiss.

Protests in Berkeley are nothing new.

A protest of a protest is unique -- even in Berkeley.

On one side of the street was CodePINK, Grandmothers Against the War, Berkeley East Bay Gray Panthers, Women in Black and other peace groups holding "no war" signs and chanting "out of Iraq."

On the other were military veterans, mothers and fathers of soldiers, members of the UC Berkeley College Republicans and Melanie Morgan, whose conservative talk show airs on KSFO. They waved American flags and chanted "USA, USA, USA."

But at times it was difficult to hear what either group was saying because each was trying to drown out the other as men on Harley Davidsons and frustrated motorists gunned their engines on the street between the groups.

"This is 2007, and we support our troops. We are not going to let CodePINK disgrace our military heroes," yelled Deborah Johns, a Granite Bay woman whose 23-year-old son

is preparing to head to Iraq for his fourth tour of duty. "My son is a hero, and so are all the others who served this country."
One of the peace advocates, Sheila Goldmacher, a Berkeley woman with Grandmothers Against the War, said she was pushed and shoved by the flag-wavers. "They have a right to be here -- they do not have the right to be thugs," she said.

The military recruiting center at 64 Shattuck Square, just south of University Avenue, opened its doors in December after moving from an Alameda building that was slated to be razed.

But objections did not begin until last month when CodePINK, an anti-war group, began protesting the center.

"Our message is very clear. We are peaceful people. We don't want to send our sons and daughters into this war. I think the sentiment of Berkeley is on this side of the street," said CodePINK co-founder Medea Benjamin.

Statistics show that Berkeley is sending fewer sons and daughters into the military. In fiscal year 2001, which ended three weeks after the Sept. 11 attacks, 22 Berkeley residents joined the armed forces, according to Department of Defense enlistment data. By 2006, with the Iraq war in full swing, just 15 signed on, nearly one-third less.

Berkeley's drop mimics a California-wide trend. The Golden State in 2001 was the nation's largest source of new enlistees, with 23,503 residents joining the military in 2001. But in 2006, 2,400 fewer residents heeded the call, and today California ranks second behind Texas in recruitment.

The recruiting office, which has been defaced with graffiti in recent weeks, was closed during the protest Wednesday, and a representative was not on site to comment.

However, in a recently published editorial in the Berkeley Daily Planet newspaper, Capt. Richard Lund, the Marine Corps' officer selection officer for the northern Bay Area, said he chose the Berkeley site because "of its proximity to UC Berkeley and to the BART station."

**Tock** · 10-18-2007, 06:40 PM

Originally Posted by Logan13

BERKELEY -- Flag-waving demonstrators far outnumbered a group of peace advocates

That must mean that the Iraq war is a good idea, even though it was justified on lies manufactured by George Bush and his cronies.

**Logan13** · 10-19-2007, 12:36 PM

Originally Posted by Tock

That must mean that the Iraq war is a good idea, even though it was justified on lies manufactured by George Bush and his cronies.

Or it means that even the majority of ultra-liberal Berkeley uses common sense and remembers what happened when we pulled out of Vietnam and 3million people died.........

**Tock** · 10-19-2007, 07:10 PM

Originally Posted by Logan13

what happened when we pulled out of Vietnam and 3million people died.........

Yah, well, nobody had a good reason for the US being in Vietnam, either.

**RANA** · 10-19-2007, 07:40 PM

Originally Posted by Tock

Yah, well, nobody had a good reason for the US being in Vietnam, either.

Who was the President that authorized the Vietnam war?

**RANA** · 10-19-2007, 07:41 PM

Originally Posted by Tock

That must mean that the Iraq war is a good idea, even though it was justified on lies manufactured by George Bush and his cronies.

Good thing John Kerry and Hillary Clinton did not vote to go to war...oh wait they did

**RANA** · 10-19-2007, 07:46 PM

Originally Posted by rana173

Who was the President that authorized the Vietnam war?

Oh yes a democrat

**Logan13** · 10-19-2007, 09:30 PM

Originally Posted by Tock

Yah, well, nobody had a good reason for the US being in Vietnam, either.

You should remember that the same kind of liberal BS going on today in regards to the Iraq war was being propagandized in much the same fashion during the vietnam war. Our gov't caved to social pressures back then, and 3million south Vietnese were killed. Question is, do the hippies of yesterday take responsibility for these millions of deaths and will those of today take responsibility for what will happen if we pull out of Iraq prematurely?

**Coop77** · 10-20-2007, 02:09 AM

Originally Posted by rana173

Good thing John Kerry and Hillary Clinton did not vote to go to war...oh wait they did

There was that whole lying to congress & American people / bogus intelligence link-Saddam-to-Al-Qaeda thing, you know.

**Coop77** · 10-20-2007, 02:11 AM

Originally Posted by Logan13

Or it means that even the majority of ultra-liberal Berkeley uses common sense and remembers what happened when we pulled out of Vietnam and 3million people died.........

Yes, everyone is behind the war. This proves it.

**RANA** · 10-20-2007, 07:25 AM

Originally Posted by Coop77

There was that whole lying to congress & American people / bogus intelligence link-Saddam-to-Al-Qaeda thing, you know.

Oh, you mean the same Senator that was on the intelligence committee? The one that received the exact same intel that the President received? So what was Bill Clintons excuse for bomb Iraq and making the same statements the Kerry and Hillary made? It is easy to forget the past! I voted against the war before I voted for it.

**Logan13** · 10-20-2007, 09:33 AM

Originally Posted by Coop77

Yes, everyone is behind the war. This proves it.

For all of your meaningless banter, you still have not addressed the issue of what will happen to these people if we pull out.

**Coop77** · 10-20-2007, 12:27 PM

Originally Posted by rana173

Oh, you mean the same Senator that was on the intelligence committee? The one that received the exact same intel that the President received? So what was Bill Clintons excuse for bomb Iraq and making the same statements the Kerry and Hillary made? It is easy to forget the past! I voted against the war before I voted for it.

Yes, that one. There were no intelligence reports that linked Iraq to Al Qaeda or WMD. All of that was played up, if not entirely fabricated by the bush administration. I believe both of those senators have stated that they based their votes on the statements of the president being earnest.

Cliton bombing some select sites is not the same as a full blown, trillion-dollar, years long invasion & occupation of the country.

**Coop77** · 10-20-2007, 12:28 PM

Originally Posted by Logan13

For all of your meaningless banter, you still have not addressed the issue of what will happen to these people if we pull out.

The damage is done. Their country is ruined and I think they want us to just get the f*&% out of their country already. They're sending us this message by, you know, bombing us and stuff.

**Fat Guy** · 10-20-2007, 01:02 PM

Originally Posted by Logan13

Or it means that even the majority of ultra-liberal Berkeley uses common sense and remembers what happened when we pulled out of Vietnam and 3million people died.........

Logan

We are going to pull out of Iraq sooner or later and either way it is not going to be good because we shouldn’t be there in the 1st place. There are going to be many people to die because of the withdrawal,

but that is not because of the U.S. withdrawing, but rather bad political policy pushed by the current administration. It is not the people of the U.S. that have blood on their hands but the lying political leaders who led us into this quagmire of s h i t.

**RANA** · 10-20-2007, 01:05 PM

Originally Posted by Coop77

Yes, that one. There were no intelligence reports that linked Iraq to Al Qaeda or WMD. All of that was played up, if not entirely fabricated by the bush administration. I believe both of those senators have stated that they based their votes on the statements of the president being earnest.

Cliton bombing some select sites is not the same as a full blown, trillion-dollar, years long invasion & occupation of the country.

Kerry had the same intel that President Bush had!!!!! Plus Bush kept Clintons intel people. All the intel was about WMD!!!

**thegodfather** · 10-20-2007, 02:48 PM

Originally Posted by Logan13

For all of your meaningless banter, you still have not addressed the issue of what will happen to these people if we pull out.

Honestly, I do not care what will happen to these people if we pull out. What will happen to the 350,000,000 people in the United States if we dont? Answer: We will keep accruing 3billion dollars in debt per day, borrowing money from China, and making our quality of life go down. We should not have been in that country to begin with, Afghanistan yes, Iraq no. To date over 1,000,000 people have been killed in Rawanda, have we done a damn thing to stop that? No, because we dont have any vested interests in that country like oil, or positioning ourselves closer to Iran for an invasion. I really dont see Iraq as anything more than a plan of action or a stage for an Iranian invasion.

Then, lets not even get into the legal aspect of this war. It is ILLEGAL, Congress never made a declaration of war against Iraq. The President does not have authority to start a war at his will. He has COMPLETELY disregarded the system of checks&balances. Another ****ing collossal crime under the Bush administration is the Unitary Executive, unwarranted spying on any US Citizen without the oversight of a court. Completely in violation of the constitution. Im a republican, but I do not agree with any of the things that Bush has done, whats next is he gonna take a match and set the constitution on fire? He just about has anyway....

**Logan13** · 10-20-2007, 08:36 PM

Originally Posted by thegodfather

Honestly, I do not care what will happen to these people if we pull out. What will happen to the 350,000,000 people in the United States if we dont? Answer: We will keep accruing 3billion dollars in debt per day, borrowing money from China, and making our quality of life go down. We should not have been in that country to begin with, Afghanistan yes, Iraq no. To date over 1,000,000 people have been killed in Rawanda, have we done a damn thing to stop that? No, because we dont have any vested interests in that country like oil, or positioning ourselves closer to Iran for an invasion. I really dont see Iraq as anything more than a plan of action or a stage for an Iranian invasion.

Then, lets not even get into the legal aspect of this war. It is ILLEGAL, Congress never made a declaration of war against Iraq. The President does not have authority to start a war at his will. He has COMPLETELY disregarded the system of checks&balances. Another ****ing collossal crime under the Bush administration is the Unitary Executive, unwarranted spying on any US Citizen without the oversight of a court. Completely in violation of the constitution. Im a republican, but I do not agree with any of the things that Bush has done, whats next is he gonna take a match and set the constitution on fire? He just about has anyway....

Rwanda desperately needs some international attention. As for Iraq and oil, doesn't $80/barrel kind of blow that theory out of the water. I'm still waiting for my free oil, have you already received yours?