Another Massacre At A "Gun Free Zone" College Campus

[Logan13]

Another Massacre At A "Gun Free Zone" College Campus
http://www.kxmb.com/News/Nation/209747.asp

One gun, one person trained how to use it and willing to do so could have stopped most of this:

DEKALB, Ill. - Another person shot when a gunman opened fire at a lecture hall at Northern Illinois University has died, bringing the toll to seven, including the gunman, a coroner said Friday.

Investigators and school officials did not immediately know why the man indiscriminately fired into the crowd with a shotgun and two handguns Thursday, wounding 15 people and sending panicked students fleeing for the exits before killing himself.

“We have no motive and I have no way of knowing what the motive was,” University Police Chief Donald Grady said.

At one time I was very against arming teachers or allowing qualified students to carry on campus. I’m not any more. These maniacs go to those schools KNOWING that their’s will be the only gun there - until police arrive. And that can take minutes.

If you know anything about guns, or ever fire on a range, take any semi-automatic pistol with, say, two extra loaded magazines, and see how long it will take you to fire every single round in those magazines. It doesn’t take but a few seconds. Then imagine firing into a crowded room filled with unarmed people.

Like shooting fish in a barrel.

This one, like some others before him, even stopped to reload. One gun. That’s all it would have taken. But that campus, like all the others, is a “gun free zone”.

To everyone except the killer.

[AandF6969]

www.concealedcampus.com

over 17,000 members.

[Dangercat00]

Its funny you posted this because just yesterday a kid at my school got expelled for having a handgun in his room. Needless to say, campus is a "gun free" zone.

[LawMan018]

Another Massacre At A "Gun Free Zone" College Campus
http://www.kxmb.com/News/Nation/209747.asp

One gun, one person trained how to use it and willing to do so could have stopped most of this:

DEKALB, Ill. - Another person shot when a gunman opened fire at a lecture hall at Northern Illinois University has died, bringing the toll to seven, including the gunman, a coroner said Friday.

Investigators and school officials did not immediately know why the man indiscriminately fired into the crowd with a shotgun and two handguns Thursday, wounding 15 people and sending panicked students fleeing for the exits before killing himself.

“We have no motive and I have no way of knowing what the motive was,” University Police Chief Donald Grady said.

At one time I was very against arming teachers or allowing qualified students to carry on campus. I’m not any more. These maniacs go to those schools KNOWING that their’s will be the only gun there - until police arrive. And that can take minutes.

If you know anything about guns, or ever fire on a range, take any semi-automatic pistol with, say, two extra loaded magazines, and see how long it will take you to fire every single round in those magazines. It doesn’t take but a few seconds. Then imagine firing into a crowded room filled with unarmed people.

Like shooting fish in a barrel.

This one, like some others before him, even stopped to reload. One gun. That’s all it would have taken. But that campus, like all the others, is a “gun free zone”.

To everyone except the killer.

I'm glad campuses are gun free... It prevents "rare" instances such as this, from becoming a common thing during finals...

[thegodfather]

I'm glad campuses are gun free... It prevents "rare" instances such as this, from becoming a common thing during finals...

Do you think before you talk? Mind posting some statistics to back up what you just said?

[thegodfather]

[LawMan018]

Do you think before you talk? Mind posting some statistics to back up what you just said?

I have no need to post any ****ing statistics... Guns allowed on campus? Are you honestly that retarded to think that would be a "good" idea? There would definately be shootouts and being a college campus hundreds of people in the crossfire... Not to mention the mentalities of many college students being young and thinking they're invincible. That's also why many of these colleges have campus police who are able to carry guns and prevent many of these instances from happening.

[thegodfather]

I have no need to post any ****ing statistics... Guns allowed on campus? Are you honestly that retarded to think that would be a "good" idea? There would definately be shootouts and being a college campus hundreds of people in the crossfire... Not to mention the mentalities of many college students being young and thinking they're invincible. That's also why many of these colleges have campus police who are able to carry guns and prevent many of these instances from happening.

Yea, the campus police at Virginia Tech and NIU really stopped this from happening. It takes only 1-2 minutes to fire off 30-60 rounds and kill several people. Campus police cannot be everywhere at everytime. Just because this is a college campus does not make it "special." People who are licensed to C&C do it many other places, where the police can also not be everywhere at everytime.

Saying that there are campus police capable of stopping things like this, just because it is on a college campus, is like saying there are city police who can stop murders and rapes from happening just because they are. Are you even in college dude? You make a lot of presumptious arguments based on stereotypes and broad generalizations about people. You view college students as mostly irresponsible and "invincible." When in fact, since I am actually in college, and interact with these people on a daily basis, my perception is much different and most college students are responsible young adults. You must have missed the operative word, ADULTS!

People who would be allowed to conceal&carry on campus would be the same people who are licensed to conceal&carry in everyday life. That means, they are at least 21 years old, have no previous mental health issues, and have no criminal backgrounds to speak of. Would you have us believe that just because these responsible law abiding 21 year olds are enrolled in college they are somehow LESS responsible and LESS capable of carrying a firearm responsibly? The state does not make distinctions based on whether or not one is a college student or not. We could speak about a million hypothetical situations in everyday life where you could argue there would be "shootouts everyday" with people thinking they're invincible. Unfortunately for you and your argument, it is baseless nonsense, and the statistics prove you wrong. A male adult licensed to conceal&carry is 5 times less likely to be convicted of a violent crime, and states that allow shall issue conceal&carry have significantly lower violent crime rates than states that do not. This could go on forever, but please if you're going to come to the table with a bold liberal argument like that, have something to back it up, other than your uninformed opinion.

[SMCengineer]

I have no need to post any ****ing statistics... Guns allowed on campus? Are you honestly that retarded to think that would be a "good" idea? There would definately be shootouts and being a college campus hundreds of people in the crossfire... Not to mention the mentalities of many college students being young and thinking they're invincible. That's also why many of these colleges have campus police who are able to carry guns and prevent many of these instances from happening.

Based on your post, your implying that because a person is allowed to carry a gun that he/she is more inclined to murder someone or commit a crime, which is simply not true. In most states where right to carry laws were passed there was a significant reduction in crime. Conversely, gun restriction laws do not stop people who are already inclined to commit murder or crime. If anything, as we've seen, gun laws only serve to help them.

Here are some facts for you: http://www.justfacts.com/guncontrol.asp

[LawMan018]

uninformed? I happen to be in college as I've stated many times before... And yes, many of the young people actually act like adults, however many are very immature at the same time. And I wasn't stating that campus police were the be all end all of the gun situation... Of course they are not pyschics and can predict something before it happens and stop it, but they do a hell of a lot better job then a conceal and carry license would do. You obviously think that a conceal and carry would be able to stop anything horrible from happening. One bad guy shoots, and then quick draw pops him off before he can squeeze another round out? Sorry, it doesn't work like that. A bunch of running, screaming college students is an easy target for a bad guy. However, it doesn't make it very easy for someone with conceal and carry to target that bad guy. If the situation was black and white, sure, but being that it isn't, conceal and carry on college campus is just absurd.

[LawMan018]

Based on your post, your implying that because a person is allowed to carry a gun that he/she is more inclined to murder someone or commit a crime, which is simply not true. In most states where right to carry laws were passed there was a significant reduction in crime. Conversely, gun restriction laws do not stop people who are already inclined to commit murder or crime. If anything, as we've seen, gun laws only serve to help them.

Here are some facts for you: http://www.justfacts.com/guncontrol.asp

I understand that and yes I know the statistics, however they have never been based on a college campus study where the emotional tension can get very, very high.

[SMCengineer]

You obviously think that a conceal and carry would be able to stop anything horrible from happening. One bad guy shoots, and then quick draw pops him off before he can squeeze another round out? Sorry, it doesn't work like that. A bunch of running, screaming college students is an easy target for a bad guy. However, it doesn't make it very easy for someone with conceal and carry to target that bad guy. If the situation was black and white, sure, but being that it isn't, conceal and carry on college campus is just absurd.

I can't speak for thegodfather, but I can tell you that this is not at all what most proponents of gun rights think. What we do think is that if conceal and carry laws were passed the odds of "one bad guy" shooting a bunch of innocent unarmed civilians would be drastically reduced because we'd have a way to protect ourselves. Your arguement is somewhat correct, it won't save everyone lives in these situations, but what if someone with a gun took the shooter out before he shot the sixth victim? That would be one less person dead and I gurantee that person would be very thankful for the conceal and carry law even though it only saved one person. However, your arguement is still flawed because with conceal and carry laws the opportunity to commit a school shooting would also be greatly reduced because the people who are armed would be a huge deterent.

[LawMan018]

I can't speak for thegodfather, but I can tell you that this is not at all what most proponents of gun rights think. What we do think is that if conceal and carry laws were passed the odds of "one bad guy" shooting a bunch of innocent unarmed civilians would be drastically reduced because we'd have a way to protect ourselves. Your arguement is somewhat correct, it won't save everyone lives in these situations, but what if someone with a gun took the shooter out before he shot the sixth victim? That would be one less person dead and I gurantee that person would be very thankful for the conceal and carry law even though it only saved one person. However, your arguement is still flawed because with conceal and carry laws the opportunity to commit a school shooting would also be greatly reduced because the people who are armed would be a huge deterent.

A huge deterrent? Most of these guys commiting the shootings don't care if they live or die...

[thegodfather]

A huge deterrent? Most of these guys commiting the shootings don't care if they live or die...

Blome and I would rather see the people have a CHANCE rather than see the victims like fish getting shot in a barrel. It at least gives the people a chance for a recourse, as opposed to none. If you have taken all of the steps and passed all the checks for C&C the chances are you are a much more responsible individual than most. It is a fundamental right to be able to defend ones self, we cannot expect the police to always prevent things such as these. You actually helped make my point, these situations are NEVER black and white, and are always in the grey. Therefore, there is always a chance that things will go either way, the difference in a situation like NIU and Vtech, is that the victims would have had a CHANCE at preventing further bloodshed to the degree that took place. In the Vtech incident the gunman reloaded several times, and those were valuable moments where a responsible conceal&carry could have disabled that threat and prevented more loss of life. Cmon LawMan, for a person who is joining the military, I did not expect you to be on the side of the Liberal gungrabbers.

[LawMan018]

Blome and I would rather see the people have a CHANCE rather than see the victims like fish getting shot in a barrel. It at least gives the people a chance for a recourse, as opposed to none. If you have taken all of the steps and passed all the checks for C&C the chances are you are a much more responsible individual than most. It is a fundamental right to be able to defend ones self, we cannot expect the police to always prevent things such as these. You actually helped make my point, these situations are NEVER black and white, and are always in the grey. Therefore, there is always a chance that things will go either way, the difference in a situation like NIU and Vtech, is that the victims would have had a CHANCE at preventing further bloodshed to the degree that took place. In the Vtech incident the gunman reloaded several times, and those were valuable moments where a responsible conceal&carry could have disabled that threat and prevented more loss of life. Cmon LawMan, for a person who is joining the military, I did not expect you to be on the side of the Liberal gungrabbers.

I understand I'm all for C & C, just not in certain places... Schools being one of them...