Fundamentalist Christians Boycotting McDonald's over Gay Marriage

**Tock** · 07-04-2008, 11:13 PM

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...303769_pf.html

Gay-Marriage Opponents To Boycott McDonald's

By Frank Ahrens
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, July 4, 2008; D01

A group that opposes same-sex marriage has called for a boycott of McDonald's, saying the fast-food giant has refused "to stay neutral in the cultural war over homosexuality."

The American Family Association (AFA) launched the boycott yesterday because McDonald's joined the National Gay and Lesbian Chamber of Commerce several months ago and placed an executive on the group's board of directors, in addition to donating to the chamber.

The association asked McDonald's to remove itself from the chamber but the burger-maker declined, leading to the boycott. "We're saying that there are people who support AFA who don't appreciate their dollars from the hamburgers they bought being put into an organization that's going to fight against the values they believe in," Tim Wildmon, the association's president, said yesterday.

"Hatred has no place in our culture," McDonald's USA spokesman Bill Whitman said. "That includes McDonald's, and we stand by and support our people to live and work in a society free of discrimination and harassment."

In March, the association ended a two-year boycott of Ford after the automaker largely stopped advertising its Volvo, Jaguar and Land Rover vehicles in the gay media. The association also has boycotted retailer Target for substituting "holiday" for "Christmas" in its advertising and the Walt Disney Co. for its "embrace of the homosexual lifestyle."

Corporations increasingly are courting the gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender markets for their buying power and trendsetting value. This translates into corporate sponsorships of events, such as gay pride festivals, and advertising targeted at nonheterosexual consumers.
As a result, faith-based groups such as the AFA are following the example practiced for years by the secular left, which has targeted corporations for their policies on environmental, workplace and human-rights issues.
The AFA "exists to motivate and equip citizens to change the culture to reflect Biblical truth and traditional family values," the group's Web site reads. The organization, based in Tupelo, Miss., has 2.8 million people on its e-mail alert system and sends its monthly magazine to 170,000 people, Wildmon said.

Wildmon said his group wants McDonald's to give up its membership in the chamber, which is located in Dupont Circle, next year and to remove its logo from the chamber's Web site. "I think the request we're making is more than fair," Wildmon said.

A call to chamber president Justin G. Nelson was not returned.

Wildmon said that his group would not object if McDonald's gave money to a group that, for instance, assisted gay HIV/AIDS patients. "You wouldn't hear from us," he said. "That would be classified as humanitarian aid." The AFA has planned no on-site protests, Wildmon said.

In a May 29 letter to Wildmon, McDonald's global chief diversity officer Pat Harris wrote: "McDonald's is associated with countless local and national affinity groups. . . . We have a well-established and proud heritage of associating with individuals and organizations that share the belief that every person has the right to live and work in a community free of discrimination."

On its new Web site, BoycottMcDonalds.com, AFA says the boycott is not about McDonald's hiring or serving gay patrons or its treatment of gay employees. Instead, the boycott is motivated by McDonald's throwing "the full weight of their corporation to promoting the homosexual agenda, including homosexual marriage."
Ascertaining the impact of such boycotts can be tricky. Ford's monthly sales slumped at times during the AFA boycott, but so did those of General Motors, DaimlerChrysler and Toyota. The boycott coincided with an industry-wide slide in sales of SUVs and trucks, Ford's core products. "It is so difficult to sort out what cause and effect is today with the number of variables that are in play," said David E. Cole, chairman of the Center for Automotive Research.

Ford, which has sold its Jaguar and Land Rover lines, said gay-oriented ads constituted a small slice of its marketing budget. When cuts were made, mainstream-market advertising was reduced, while niche advertising was all but eliminated.

In a March statement, the company said: "Ford will continue to market its products widely to attract as many customers as possible and make charitable contributions to strengthen communities to the extent business conditions allow. Difficult business conditions in recent years have reduced our overall spending across the board."

**Coop77** · 07-04-2008, 11:39 PM

good, most fundamentalist christians I see need to lose weight anyway

**BITTAPART2** · 07-05-2008, 10:22 AM

wow, the unemployment rate in the mobile home parks is going to rise fast!!!! just think, they are boycotting their own jobs! we call that a strike
crazy christians

**gixxerboy1** · 07-05-2008, 10:24 AM

Good for McDonalds sticking with it

**Billy-the-kid** · 07-05-2008, 11:10 AM

About 77% of all Americans are Christains. When you have a "Family Business" like McDonald's that has a play area for our children; a good business practice would be to stay neutarl on the gay issue.

What the Hell is the National Gay & Lesbian Chamer of Commerce anyway? This very small special interest group has no real economic muscle behind it. This is just Left Coast B.S. If you'r gay, that is fine with me; but stay out of my face with it. I don't care who you sleep with, and I don't care, keep it to yourself.

Disney World got hurt bad when they promoted their annual Gay Days. Nothing is sacred to the "Left" anymore. Can't my kid go to Disney World or eat a burger without sexuality being an issue?

**gixxerboy1** · 07-05-2008, 11:41 AM

Originally Posted by Billy-the-kid

About 77% of all Americans are Christains. When you have a "Family Business" like McDonald's that has a play area for our children; a good business practice would be to stay neutarl on the gay issue.

What the Hell is the National Gay & Lesbian Chamer of Commerce anyway? This very small special interest group has no real economic muscle behind it. This is just Left Coast B.S. If you'r gay, that is fine with me; but stay out of my face with it. I don't care who you sleep with, and I don't care, keep it to yourself.

Disney World got hurt bad when they promoted their annual Gay Days. Nothing is sacred to the "Left" anymore. Can't my kid go to Disney World or eat a burger without sexuality being an issue?

This will not change what it is like to go into a McDonald's. You would never know it if the AFA hate group didn't talk about it.

**Coop77** · 07-05-2008, 12:02 PM

Originally Posted by Billy-the-kid

About 77% of all Americans are Christains. When you have a "Family Business" like McDonald's that has a play area for our children; a good business practice would be to stay neutarl on the gay issue.

What the Hell is the National Gay & Lesbian Chamer of Commerce anyway? This very small special interest group has no real economic muscle behind it. This is just Left Coast B.S. If you'r gay, that is fine with me; but stay out of my face with it. I don't care who you sleep with, and I don't care, keep it to yourself.

Disney World got hurt bad when they promoted their annual Gay Days. Nothing is sacred to the "Left" anymore. Can't my kid go to Disney World or eat a burger without sexuality being an issue?

It's not like they're putting a How-To-Have-Gay-Sex pamphlet in every happy meal. They're just marketing to a gay audience, which is big business. Unless your kid reads gay publications and sees McDonalds ads there, he'd never know the difference.

**Billy-the-kid** · 07-05-2008, 12:24 PM

Back up sister!!! The AFA is not a hate group. They are a group of Christains that have traditional American/Christain beliefs. I'm not a member, I don't even go to church, but these people have a right not to eat at a restaurant if that restaurant is going to support some gay special interest group! They also have a right not to be labeled a "hate group". I love liberals like you. If you don't agree with what the AFA is doing, then they are a hate group. How trite.

What if it was a Moslem or an Islamic group that boycotted McDonalds for supporting some gay group? You know what Moslem's think of the gay community don't you? Then you would be signing a different tune, how we must respect and understand the beliefs of other religions and cultures. Diversity is so enriching and we must build a bridge between the gay community and the ...... Bla, Bla, Bla...

**gixxerboy1** · 07-05-2008, 12:50 PM

Originally Posted by Billy-the-kid

Back up sister!!! The AFA is not a hate group. They are a group of Christains that have traditional American/Christain beliefs. I'm not a member, I don't even go to church, but these people have a right not to eat at a restaurant if that restaurant is going to support some gay special interest group! They also have a right not to be labeled a "hate group". I love liberals like you. If you don't agree with what the AFA is doing, then they are a hate group. How trite.

What if it was a Moslem or an Islamic group that boycotted McDonalds for supporting some gay group? You know what Moslem's think of the gay community don't you? Then you would be signing a different tune, how we must respect and understand the beliefs of other religions and cultures. Diversity is so enriching and we must build a bridge between the gay community and the ...... Bla, Bla, Bla...

Of course they have that right not to go there. What do you call it? they discriminate against people who are gay or support them. IMO that is a hate group.

Lol im not a liberial. Just because i dont use a fiction book to run my life you think i am? You dont want gay stuff forced down your throught. well thats how i feel about religion. I sick of everyone thanking god. Having to see these dumb god bill boards. And not to mention a church on every corner

**Tesla** · 07-05-2008, 01:10 PM

I have been boycotting McDonald's for years.....but only because their food sucks.

**Billy-the-kid** · 07-05-2008, 01:15 PM

That just shows how out of touch with reality you are. Is Hamas or the Taliban freedom fighters, or are they a hate group? Don't call them terrorists, we may offend someone. The KKK is a hate group my friend, Christains are not.

Who are they discriminating against? A Christain family that does not eat at a restaurant because said restaurant supports the national gay and lesbian chamber of commerce is not a hate group. And if a Christain family does not want to spend money at said restaurant because it conflicts with their family values & morales, how does that equate to hate?

Liberalism is a mental disease! gixxerboy1 says he is "sick of everyone thanking GOD." The man has no respect for others and has lost his soul.

**gixxerboy1** · 07-05-2008, 01:23 PM

Originally Posted by Billy-the-kid

That just shows how out of touch with reality you are. Is Hamas or the Taliban freedom fighters, or are they a hate group? Don't call them terrorists, we may offend someone. The KKK is a hate group my friend, Christains are not.

Who are they discriminating against? A Christain family that does not eat at a restaurant because said restaurant supports the national gay and lesbian chamber of commerce is not a hate group. And if a Christain family does not want to spend money at said restaurant because it conflicts with their family values & morales, how does that equate to hate?

Liberalism is a mental disease! gixxerboy1 says he is "sick of everyone thanking GOD." The man has no respect for others and has lost his soul.

But yet they might eat chinese food or other ethnic food that doesnt have the same beliefs.

Honestly i hate all religions. I think its all a total shame. but as long as it doesnt effect me i don't care what anyone wants to believe

Again im not a liberal or Conservitive i guess. I have dif. feelings on dif issues.

And liberalism is a mental disease? But yet beliving that there is a big man in the sky watching what everyoen is doing every second of the day isnt? lol

**thegodfather** · 07-05-2008, 02:04 PM

Originally Posted by Billy-the-kid

About 77% of all Americans are Christains. When you have a "Family Business" like McDonald's that has a play area for our children; a good business practice would be to stay neutarl on the gay issue.

What the Hell is the National Gay & Lesbian Chamer of Commerce anyway? This very small special interest group has no real economic muscle behind it. This is just Left Coast B.S. If you'r gay, that is fine with me; but stay out of my face with it. I don't care who you sleep with, and I don't care, keep it to yourself.

Disney World got hurt bad when they promoted their annual Gay Days. Nothing is sacred to the "Left" anymore. Can't my kid go to Disney World or eat a burger without sexuality being an issue?

Keep it to yourself? In what respect do you mean the aforementioned sentence? If you have or had a girlfriend/wife/sig. other, at some point in your life, when you were out in public did you hold her hand? give her a kiss? perhaps wear a ring to signify your comment to her and vice versa?

YOU dont "keep it to yourself," so why the FU*K would you presume to subjugate other people and tell them to keep their relationships "to themselves." There is only one word for the kind of rhetoric you are spewing from your keyboard...... INTOLERANCE.

And before you shoot your mouth off and call me a liberal, WRONG. I'm a conservative Republican(Libertarian).

**thegodfather** · 07-05-2008, 02:13 PM

Originally Posted by Billy-the-kid

That just shows how out of touch with reality you are. Is Hamas or the Taliban freedom fighters, or are they a hate group? Don't call them terrorists, we may offend someone. The KKK is a hate group my friend, Christains are not.

Who are they discriminating against? A Christain family that does not eat at a restaurant because said restaurant supports the national gay and lesbian chamber of commerce is not a hate group. And if a Christain family does not want to spend money at said restaurant because it conflicts with their family values & morales, how does that equate to hate?

Liberalism is a mental disease! gixxerboy1 says he is "sick of everyone thanking GOD." The man has no respect for others and has lost his soul.

Hamas in fact is a freedom fighting group, as are the "insurgents" in Iraq. They are defending their previously sovereign country against the invasion and OCCUPATION by a foreign power which had no business to violate their sovereignty and their unalienable rights. Anyway, during the R*********ary War in the 1700's, the founding fathers of the United States were called TERRORISTS by the Crown. You see, who we decide to label a terrorist is largely dependent on who's perspective you are loooking through. The United States brands the opposition in Iraq as "terrorists" to coddify the support of the American people into supporting an imperialist profiteering war effort. That is the truth, the cold hard fact, and nothing more.

See, an open minded person who can think for themselves (and not under the direction of a 5,000 year old text) is able to take a step back and look at situations through the lenses of other people different from themselves. Since you obviously lack this ability I was obliged to do this for you in my aforementioned paragraph.

Terrorism, for your information, is a TACTIC of war. It is not a person, place, or group. It's a type of warfare. The label has been adopted to fit the various agendas of regimes around the world who need moral justification to subjugate other peoples and lands for various reasons.

**Billy-the-kid** · 07-05-2008, 03:06 PM

Hey Godfather, 2 pionts!

1) First, your correct, there are some things I don't want to tolerate, so I'm intolerant. I don't want to explain to my 5 or 7 year old why 2 dudes are kissing or how they are married, and now it is ok, because it is an alternative lifestyle. NO WAY!!! Not on my watch. Let my kids be kids, they don't need to see that shit! And if family businesses like McDonalds or Disney World want to support those Gay groups, so be it. But my family won't be there. So call me intolerant. Tell me my family belongs to a hate group because we won't eat at McDonalds. I'm holding on to my traditional American values.

2) Second, And most important, You said "Hamas is in fact a freedom fighting group"? Your insane! They are a militant group known for numerous suicide bombings against civilians. They are listed as a terrorist group by the USA, Canada, Japan, the UK, ect... Hamas' charter states "There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through JIHAD".

Do you know what Jihad is? Educate yourself Godfather. They are not freedom fighters, they are terrorists. Yes, terrorism is a tactic of war, for them. We Americans don't strap bombs to our kids backs and tell them to blow up a bus full of civilians for our political agenda.

**gixxerboy1** · 07-05-2008, 03:22 PM

Originally Posted by Billy-the-kid

Hey Godfather, 2 pionts!

1) First, your correct, there are some things I don't want to tolerate, so I'm intolerant. I don't want to explain to my 5 or 7 year old why 2 dudes are kissing or how they are married, and now it is ok, because it is an alternative lifestyle. NO WAY!!! Not on my watch. Let my kids be kids, they don't need to see that shit! And if family businesses like McDonalds or Disney World want to support those Gay groups, so be it. But my family won't be there. So call me intolerant. Tell me my family belongs to a hate group because we won't eat at McDonalds. I'm holding on to my traditional American values.

2) Second, And most important, You said "Hamas is in fact a freedom fighting group"? Your insane! They are a militant group known for numerous suicide bombings against civilians. They are listed as a terrorist group by the USA, Canada, Japan, the UK, ect... Hamas' charter states "There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through JIHAD".

Do you know what Jihad is? Educate yourself Godfather. They are not freedom fighters, they are terrorists. Yes, terrorism is a tactic of war, for them. We Americans don't strap bombs to our kids backs and tell them to blow up a bus full of civilians for our political agenda.

On your first point. There is gonig to be alot of things you have to explain to your kids. Explaining that 2 people care about each other shoudl be the least of your worries

You 2nd point. Ur right we drop the bombs by plane. If you think America isnt a terrosit state also you have some rose colored glasses

**thegodfather** · 07-05-2008, 03:36 PM

Originally Posted by Billy-the-kid

Hey Godfather, 2 pionts!

1) First, your correct, there are some things I don't want to tolerate, so I'm intolerant. I don't want to explain to my 5 or 7 year old why 2 dudes are kissing or how they are married, and now it is ok, because it is an alternative lifestyle. NO WAY!!! Not on my watch. Let my kids be kids, they don't need to see that shit! And if family businesses like McDonalds or Disney World want to support those Gay groups, so be it. But my family won't be there. So call me intolerant. Tell me my family belongs to a hate group because we won't eat at McDonalds. I'm holding on to my traditional American values.

2) Second, And most important, You said "Hamas is in fact a freedom fighting group"? Your insane! They are a militant group known for numerous suicide bombings against civilians. They are listed as a terrorist group by the USA, Canada, Japan, the UK, ect... Hamas' charter states "There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through JIHAD".

Do you know what Jihad is? Educate yourself Godfather. They are not freedom fighters, they are terrorists. Yes, terrorism is a tactic of war, for them. We Americans don't strap bombs to our kids backs and tell them to blow up a bus full of civilians for our political agenda.

You obviously failed to grasp the concept with regard to what I was attempting to point out to you. The tactic of terrorism is employed by groups who are oppressed, outgunned, outnumbered, etc.,etc. Just because the Palestinians happen to cloak this tactic in "Jihad" does not make the tactic any less valid, and their effort for FREEDOM any less legitimate. The people of Palestine are starved, depraved, and are all labeled as "security risks" by the state of Israel. The people of Palestine implement this tactic because they lack the ability to effectively confront the Israeli army by conventional warfare tactics. They do not have equivalent weapons, tanks, planes, and other such armaments. The tactic employed by Palestine is used to destroy the will of the Israeli state to continue fighting them and continue subjugating them.

The tactic used in Palestine was no different than the same tactics used by the IRA against the British occupation of Northern Ireland. Hugely outnumbered and outgunned Irish citizens used the tactic of terrorism to confront a British army they otherwise would have stood no chance against.

Yet, the stronger power (as they say the victor writes history) always labels these freedom fighters as "terrorists." It is a very simple "us vs. them" psychology being implemented and its largely effective with the masses especially in this country. Our politicians and propagandists have demonized an entire region of the world.

If you believe for one moment, that if hypothetically, China were to invade and OCCUPY the United States, and the United States citizens having no effective military strength left to confront these occupiers; that you and many other citizens would just roll over and accept this? I believe the answer is no, you would most likely take up the tactic of terrorism against the occupying force.

If you lack the ability to see the correlation between that hypothetical situation and the current situation of the Iraqi, Palestinian, and Irish peoples, then there is no sense in me continuing to argue with you as you would obviously perferr to live in your bubble of "family values" and that we are "moral" and "they" are not.

By the way, my education most likely cost more than your mortgage payment.

**thegodfather** · 07-05-2008, 03:41 PM

Originally Posted by gixxerboy1

On your first point. There is gonig to be alot of things you have to explain to your kids. Explaining that 2 people care about each other shoudl be the least of your worries

You 2nd point. Ur right we drop the bombs by plane. If you think America isnt a terrosit state also you have some rose colored glasses

US Soldiers KILLED: 4,000 (approx)

US Soldiers Wounded: 20,000 (Approx)

Iraqi Civilians KILLED: 1,000,000 (Appox:According to NEJM)

1/4 of which were combatants, insurgents, etc, and 3/4 of which were civilians/non-combatants/"collateral damage"

**Billy-the-kid** · 07-05-2008, 03:47 PM

Ok, your right. I should sit down with my 5 & 7 year old and explain to them the gay lifestyle, and when they are old enough, they might choose a life-partner of the same sex. Your a nut-job! Children at this age don't understand issues like this, and it can become confusing to them. These are adult conversations for parents and their teenage kids to have when they can grasp & understand these sexual issues. I'll do this when the time is right for me and my family.

Point #2, your right, blame America. We are the real terrorists aren't we? We drop bombs out of planes. We don't fight for freedom or democracy. We are the evil doers!

**thegodfather** · 07-05-2008, 04:15 PM

Originally Posted by Billy-the-kid

Ok, your right. I should sit down with my 5 & 7 year old and explain to them the gay lifestyle, and when they are old enough, they might choose a life-partner of the same sex. Your a nut-job! Children at this age don't understand issues like this, and it can become confusing to them. These are adult conversations for parents and their teenage kids to have when they can grasp & understand these sexual issues. I'll do this when the time is right for me and my family.

Point #2, your right, blame America. We are the real terrorists aren't we? We drop bombs out of planes. We don't fight for freedom or democracy. We are the evil doers!

In rebuttal to your point#1, if you can call it that- Your children of 5 and 7 are no more likely to understand a person who has downs syndrome, a cleft pallet, or some other such genetic disorder. So too they would not understand a gay couple, and yet there is no difference between them and the aforementioned. Neither people with Trisomy 21 (downs syndrome) or Homosexuals have a choice in the life they lead. Both are genetically pre-determined or pre-dispositioned. Yes, the code of life (DNA) that your God created, created Gays and Retards! I'm not an expert in the bible, but I believe that God loves these people equally correct?

This is why you assertation is so absurd. Because you would no more likely get any result from asking a person with Downs Syndrome to "keep it to themselves" or to "stop being retarded"; Than you would a gay person to stop being gay. Unfortunately, your children are likely to understand neither condition, but that does not mean that in order to shelter them from the REALITIES OF LIFE that other people have to be subjugated to achieve your goal. How disgustingly hypocritical to mention freedom&democracy and in the same breathe marginalize an entire group of people to 2nd class status. You sir, must be the pillar of what Democracy and Freedom are all about.

Point #2- We live in a Constitutional Republic. The government is modeled after Democracy. But we are by no means in any possibly way shape or form a true Democracy by definition. Ignoring that little technical error in your statement for a moment, dissenting against the government is one of the most American and patriotic things that a person can do! It is important for people to be critical of their government.

We most certainly do not fight for Democracy and Freedom. Using that pretext, why have we invaded Iraq, yet ignored Rawanda(1mil killed in genocide), Darfur, and other areas of the world where people are being oppressed. There are 190 countries in the world, 1/2 of which are still governed under one form or another of Totalitarianism. Why aren't you leading the torch of war into those countries to "free" those people? Because the truth is you have involved yourself into a debate on topics with which you have absolutely no knowledge, and no documented research to back up your wild claims. Basically, you are the typical American voter.

I'll give you a brief lesson in American history. We involved ourselves in several proxy wars with other countries to 'stop the spread of communism', and in so doing killed millions of people. We lost roughly 80,000 soldiers in Vietnam, and killed roughly 3,000,000 Vietnamese civilians! We overthrew Iran's ELECTED DEMOCRATIC GOVERNMENT in the 1950s and installed the Shah, who was a brutal leader. We fund Pervez Musharraf who is a military dictator, to the tune of 10 Billion UNITED STATES TAX DOLLARS. We have killed roughly 5,000 Panamanian civilians just to secure a canal zone and catch Manuel Norega who was a paid CIA asset to the tune of $150,000 US TAX DOLLARS per year. We have bases in 130 SOVEREIGN COUNTRIES, on other peoples territory. How would we feel if other countries had military bases, with weapons, planes, and tanks, in our neighborhoods?

You have shown the typical uneducated American viewpoint, that we can do whatever the fu*k we want, tell everyone to go screw, and in the end we are always "RIGHT" for doing it, or god knows, for giving the people we kill and subjugate the "Gift of Democracy." There are about 750,000 dead Iraqi civilians who would probably argue about that whole gift of Democracy thing, if we didnt brutally murder them.

**Billy-the-kid** · 07-05-2008, 04:17 PM

Godfather said "By the way, my education most likely cost more than your mortgage" What a pompous liberal puke.

Sounds like it was not an education, sounds more like you got an indoctrination when you were institutionalzed at some Ivy league college. You can't tell right for wrong, good from evil, freedom fighter form terrorist.

I just can't seem to comprehend your deep level of understanding as to what your trying to point out to me. Please! We are a good country, with good brave people, so don't throw up some statistics about casualties of war and how 750,00 Iraqi civilians have died as collateral damage. The Iraqi people want us there and they want freedom. We are not occupiers, but helping a young democracy flourish so it will one day stand on it's own.

One thing you can't learn from an Ivy league college is old fashion common sense.

**DeputyLoneWolf** · 07-06-2008, 04:29 AM

Originally Posted by gixxerboy1

On your first point. There is gonig to be alot of things you have to explain to your kids. Explaining that 2 people care about each other shoudl be the least of your worries

You 2nd point. Ur right we drop the bombs by plane. If you think America isnt a terrosit state also you have some rose colored glasses

People like you make me sick. If you don't like this great country then shut up and move. America a "Terrorist state" ? Get a life.

I dare you to find a better country to live in.

**Ernst** · 07-06-2008, 05:28 AM

I love that in America we have the freedom to talk about this and to disagree with each other as much as we want. If you spoke this way in some, nay, many other parts of the world you'd be flirting with fines/jail/torture/execution. I think people sometimes take this for granted.

**Red Ketchup** · 07-06-2008, 08:41 AM

Originally Posted by Billy-the-kid

You can't tell right for wrong, good from evil, freedom fighter form terrorist.

Riiight...

So in afghanistan when your government was supplying money and weapons and the afghans were shooting at the soviets, they were "freedom fighters", when those same exact people turned the guns on the USA and started shooting at you, they instantly became "terrorists"?

I guess the difference between a terrorist and a freedom fighter is in who is being shot at eh?

Red

**Billy-the-kid** · 07-06-2008, 11:07 AM

You are correct Red Ketchup. After the Taliban & Soviet Union war in Afganistan ended in 1989 the following happened:

1) 911.
2) The Taliban allowed terrorist training camps in Afganistan
3) The Taliban gave refuge to Osama Bin Laden

So yes, after the above listed took place, they went from Freedom fighters to terrorists. Let me put it to you like this. Ever been divorced. At one time your ex was your lover & best friend. Now you think she is a bitch because she took your kids and 1/2 your shit. Get the point. Only your ex did not launch a JIHAD on your ass, the Terrorists did.

**Tock** · 07-06-2008, 11:21 AM

Originally Posted by Billy-the-kid

Can't my kid go to Disney World or eat a burger without sexuality being an issue?

Eradicate all trace of sexuality, eh?

You'd have to eliminate all trace of heterosexuality. No more conspicuous signs of boyfriend/girlfriend, prohibit any sign of parent/child relationship.

How are you gonna do that?

**Tock** · 07-06-2008, 11:24 AM

Originally Posted by Billy-the-kid

Disney World got hurt bad when they promoted their annual Gay Days.

Disney World never promoted Gay Day. Local gay organizations and publications did.

**gixxerboy1** · 07-06-2008, 11:38 AM

Originally Posted by DeputyLoneWolf

People like you make me sick. If you don't like this great country then shut up and move. America a "Terrorist state" ? Get a life.

I dare you to find a better country to live in.

owned?

Have you ever been outside this country?

What is the difference between what we are doing and what the so called terrorist are doing? Are guys are in uniforms? Bush makes threats on attacking people with so called spreading democracy and freedom. We dont think we are terrorist. Just like our terrorist dont think they are. They think its justified just like we justify what we do.

**thegodfather** · 07-06-2008, 11:44 AM

Originally Posted by Billy-the-kid

You are correct Red Ketchup. After the Taliban & Soviet Union war in Afganistan ended in 1989 the following happened:

1) 911.
2) The Taliban allowed terrorist training camps in Afganistan
3) The Taliban gave refuge to Osama Bin Laden

So yes, after the above listed took place, they went from Freedom fighters to terrorists. Let me put it to you like this. Ever been divorced. At one time your ex was your lover & best friend. Now you think she is a bitch because she took your kids and 1/2 your shit. Get the point. Only your ex did not launch a JIHAD on your ass, the Terrorists did.

Please get your history straight. It was the Mujahadeen who fought the Soviets, not the Taliban. The Taliban is/was nothing more than a regime. We're expected to engage in a debate with someone who cannot even make a few mouse clicks to check if their limited understanding of international politics is correct?

Anyway, I found a quote which I believe summarizes my earlier point I was trying to make in who choses who is a "freedom fighter" and who is a "terrorist"

“Actions are held to be good or bad, not on their own merits but according to who does them, and there is almost no kind of outrage — torture, the use of hostages, forced labour, mass deportations, imprisonment without trial, forgery, assassination, the bombing of civilians — which does not change its moral colour when it is committed by ‘our’ side. … The nationalist not only does not disapprove of atrocities committed by his own side, but he has a remarkable capacity for not even hearing about them.” --George Orwell

**gixxerboy1** · 07-06-2008, 12:04 PM

Thats a great quote. And truer words were never spoken.

Just think if another country had a gitmo with our people in it. How would we feel. But most here dont bat an eye that we are doing it

**Billy-the-kid** · 07-06-2008, 12:28 PM

[QUOTE=gixxerboy1;4066111]owned? What is the difference between what we are doing and what the so called terrorist are doing?

***WE ARE THE GOOD GUYS***I REPEAT***WE ARE THE GOOD GUYS***

You don't understand the difference between us and them. I love how the liberal mind works (the so called terrorists?). We must remain objective and understand the plight of these people. We could never pass judgement on anyone who does a suicide bombing or hijacks airplains. The Godfather thinks Hamas are freedom fighters and gixxerboy thinks we are terrortist because we drop bombs out of airplanes.

(gixxerboy1) I love how you call Christains who wont eat at McDonalds a hate group, but you won't call a terrorist a terrorist.

The terrorists have been attacking us for over 20 years. And don't you dear say we deserve any of it.

911: 4 hijacked airplanes almost 3,000 daed
2000: USS Cole attacked
1998: US embassies attacked in Kenya
1996: US AIR Force installation attacked in Saudi Araba
1983: US Marine's barracks Blown up in Lebanon, 241 of our men dead
ECT...ECT...ECT...

Do you understand what true evil is?

**gixxerboy1** · 07-06-2008, 12:41 PM

[QUOTE=Billy-the-kid;4066197]

Originally Posted by gixxerboy1

owned? What is the difference between what we are doing and what the so called terrorist are doing?

***WE ARE THE GOOD GUYS***I REPEAT***WE ARE THE GOOD GUYS***

You don't understand the difference between us and them. I love how the liberal mind works (the so called terrorists?). We must remain objective and understand the plight of these people. We could never pass judgement on anyone who does a suicide bombing or hijacks airplains. The Godfather thinks Hamas are freedom fighters and gixxerboy thinks we are terrortist because we drop bombs out of airplanes.

(gixxerboy1) I love how you call Christains who wont eat at McDonalds a hate group, but you won't call a terrorist a terrorist.

The terrorists have been attacking us for over 20 years. And don't you dear say we deserve any of it.

911: 4 hijacked airplanes almost 3,000 daed
2000: USS Cole attacked
1998: US embassies attacked in Kenya
1996: US AIR Force installation attacked in Saudi Araba
1983: US Marine's barracks Blown up in Lebanon, 241 of our men dead
ECT...ECT...ECT...

Do you understand what true evil is?

seriously have you read anything godfather posted or understand it?

I dont agree with what our terrorist did agianst us. But they have their reasons in their heads why they did it and can justify it to themselves. Just like you can sit here and justify everything we have and are doing.

Maybe our military bases were attacked because people in that country dont want them there. Do you think if Russia set up a base in California. That nobody would ever try and do anything to it here?

**BgMc31** · 07-06-2008, 01:11 PM

Billy, Billy, Billy...you keep throwing around the word liberal likes its a bad thing, but the two guys who have had the most valid points on this thread and the main two cats you've been arguing with are true Republican conservatives!

You've never answered there questions about us only being in Iraq and Afganistan and not in Darfur or other much worse places in the world.

GodFather and Gixxer I really admire your points on this thread but trying to argue with this guy is like banging your head against the wall. He has proven time and time again to be closed-minded.

**thegodfather** · 07-06-2008, 02:51 PM

[QUOTE=Billy-the-kid;4066197]

Originally Posted by gixxerboy1

owned? What is the difference between what we are doing and what the so called terrorist are doing?

***WE ARE THE GOOD GUYS***I REPEAT***WE ARE THE GOOD GUYS***

You don't understand the difference between us and them. I love how the liberal mind works (the so called terrorists?). We must remain objective and understand the plight of these people. We could never pass judgement on anyone who does a suicide bombing or hijacks airplains. The Godfather thinks Hamas are freedom fighters and gixxerboy thinks we are terrortist because we drop bombs out of airplanes.

(gixxerboy1) I love how you call Christains who wont eat at McDonalds a hate group, but you won't call a terrorist a terrorist.

The terrorists have been attacking us for over 20 years. And don't you dear say we deserve any of it.

911: 4 hijacked airplanes almost 3,000 daed
2000: USS Cole attacked
1998: US embassies attacked in Kenya
1996: US AIR Force installation attacked in Saudi Araba
1983: US Marine's barracks Blown up in Lebanon, 241 of our men dead
1953: United States uses the CIA to overthrow a Democratically elected government in IRAN. Replacing the DEMOCRATICALLY ELECETED Mohammed Mossadeq was the Shah, a brutal dictator who dismantled Iran's constitution. This was done because Mossadeq following the WILL of the Iranian people wanted to nationalize the largest British owned oil company in Iran, and kick the British out.
1947: With the backing of the United States, United Kingdom, and United Nations; the land of Palestine was invaded and partitioned into what was intended to be two states, one of Jews and one of Palestinians. In actuality the Israeli state backed by the US&UK implemented an Apartheid style system which reduced Palestinian citizens to second-class status.
ECT...ECT...ECT...

Do you understand what true evil is?

Perhaps that gives you a better glimpse into why the United States is not in the favor of the Middle Eastern people. Perhaps you should stop for a moment and think about the possibility of a foreign power doing all of those same things to your people for the last 100 years. The "terrorist" problem will NEVER be solved unless we UNDERSTAND the people who attacked us and WHY they attacked us. There is no provision in the Constitution of the United States of America to exact Imperialist foreign policies and meddle in the affairs of other SOVEREIGN(look that word up) NATIONS. You went back in history just far enough to try and twist those events to fit your Neo-Conservative Christian agenda! You left out the 40-50 years it took the Middle Eastern peoples to get pissed off enough to blow themselves up. Our death toll PALES in comparison to the amount of death and destruction we have exacted on the Middle East for absolutely no reason other then it was in our best interests to protect oil profits and because we felt "guilty" for not helping the Jews during Nazi Germany. Dont agree? Prove me wrong with documented facts.

**thegodfather** · 07-06-2008, 02:58 PM

To help you better understand the Israeli-Palestinian conflict I will use an analogy.

It is equivalent to you(Israeli/Jewish) moving out of your double-wide to a trailer park across the country, and then a few hundred years later deciding that you want to go back to that double-wide(where the Palestinian people moved in and bought it from you). So instead of buying back your trailer, you decided to invade your old trailer park with your Pa's shotgun and kick everyone who had legitimately lived there out into the streets and make them live in tents.

**Billy-the-kid** · 07-06-2008, 04:14 PM

I can tell you this Godfather, if you think the Palestinians are victims, and they are justified in the way they wage their war by using suicide bombings and blowing up coffee houses; your no conservative.

Take your 6 figure education and go to the library. Check out a book called "Because They Hate" by Brigitte Gabriel. Read the book. It talks about the Plalestinians, and how they don't want peace, but the total destruction of Israel. As does the entire Middle East. You will learn about the Quran (their religious text) and that Isreal is the little Satan, and us (America) is the big Satan. You will learn why they want us all dead and who the real terrorists are.

And to answer your question, No, we can't fight for every issue around the world like Durfur. But when someone is a threat to my counrty, my people, my family, my way of life; then it is time to kick ass and take names.

Your nothing more than an elitist that has disdain for the U.S.A. Our government is not perfect & we are not perfect. But we do have good intensions and we fight for freedom and life. While others fight for death. So if you want to make out a laundry list of every bad thing our government has done, please, be my guest. Your a member of the blame America first crowd.

**DeputyLoneWolf** · 07-06-2008, 09:22 PM

Originally Posted by gixxerboy1

owned?

Have you ever been outside this country?

What is the difference between what we are doing and what the so called terrorist are doing? Are guys are in uniforms? Bush makes threats on attacking people with so called spreading democracy and freedom. We dont think we are terrorist. Just like our terrorist dont think they are. They think its justified just like we justify what we do.

So then which country did you find that you would rather live in? Oh it looks like you couldn't now could you. I'm waiting. And let me restate that: Owned x2

**DeputyLoneWolf** · 07-06-2008, 09:30 PM

[QUOTE=gixxerboy1;4066219]

Originally Posted by Billy-the-kid

seriously have you read anything godfather posted or understand it?

I dont agree with what our terrorist did agianst us. But they have their reasons in their heads why they did it and can justify it to themselves. Just like you can sit here and justify everything we have and are doing.

Maybe our military bases were attacked because people in that country dont want them there. Do you think if Russia set up a base in California. That nobody would ever try and do anything to it here?

This statement shows that you have no sense of right and wrong and believe that if we can justify something in our own mind then its ok no matter what, even if its strapping a bomb to one's chest and blowing up innocent men women and children. There are absolutes and people need to remove the blinders and see that. If I said that it was not wrong in my mind to kill you and that my pastor told me to I bet you would have a problem with that. Am I right?

But lets say I was an Iraqi and my religious teacher told me to go blow up civilians in Iraq? What you are saying is that that would be just fine because I can justify it in my own mind. You make no sense and it's sad...

**DeputyLoneWolf** · 07-06-2008, 09:34 PM

Originally Posted by thegodfather

To help you better understand the Israeli-Palestinian conflict I will use an analogy.

It is equivalent to you(Israeli/Jewish) moving out of your double-wide to a trailer park across the country, and then a few hundred years later deciding that you want to go back to that double-wide(where the Palestinian people moved in and bought it from you). So instead of buying back your trailer, you decided to invade your old trailer park with your Pa's shotgun and kick everyone who had legitimately lived there out into the streets and make them live in tents.

I don't expect you to understand this but this is the truth. God gave the Israieli people Israel. That is there land given to them by God's own hand period. And just watch as the future unfolds, they will keep it no matter who tries to take it from them.

**Tock** · 07-06-2008, 10:09 PM

Originally Posted by DeputyLoneWolf

I don't expect you to understand this but this is the truth. God gave the Israieli people Israel. That is there land given to them by God's own hand period.

Nonsense.

Whatever makes you think this is true?