Civil Right-"Freedom Of Assembly"

[TITANIUM]

I find it amazing that no major news station covered this rally.People exercising of there "freedom of assembly" rights.I guess they are not to keen on Obama's political views and plans.There was an estimated 1.2 million people, that congregated and then marched on the White House.I know that Obama is BgMc's boy and all, but, you have to ask yourself why this administration is forcing people to react in such a fashion. It is not a coincidence.You best buy a firearm now before there banned. That way you can defend yourself when the civil war starts, and "WE The People" take back country from this oppressive government!

Best

T




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-VMXz6xGeqc


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_sjvc6baor8

[Cloe85]

My Mom was there!!!

I heard all about this...

she said there was a sign there that said "Bury Obama next to Hitler"

I wish I had gone...

[BgMc31]

I find it amazing that no major news station covered this rally.People exercising of there "freedom of assembly" rights.I guess they are not to keen on Obama's political views and plans.There was an estimated 1.2 million people, that congregated and then marched on the White House.I know that Obama is BgMc's boy and all, but, you have to ask yourself why this administration is forcing people to react in such a fashion. It is not a coincidence.You best buy a firearm now before there banned. That way you can defend yourself when the civil war starts, and "WE The People" take back country from this oppressive government!

Best

T




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-VMXz6xGeqc


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_sjvc6baor8

CNN covered it. ABC News covered it, NBC News covered it. I don't know about CBS but I know Fox News covered it as well. I don't know what mainstream media you are referring to.

Handguns aren't going to be banned T. Calm down. And this thought of civil war is only being talked about by those who fear their losing THEIR privilege. If anyone is trying to start a civil war is those people who write signs like "Bury Obama next to Hitler". PLEASE!!! There is absolutely no correlation between the madman and our current president. But in order to instill fear in people, that is what you do, you compare someone with dissimilar ideas with the most vile people imaginable and the sheep will follow. And by 'you', I don't mean you in particular T, I mean a collective 'you'.

[thegodfather]

CNN covered it. ABC News covered it, NBC News covered it. I don't know about CBS but I know Fox News covered it as well. I don't know what mainstream media you are referring to.

Handguns aren't going to be banned T. Calm down. And this thought of civil war is only being talked about by those who fear their losing THEIR privilege. If anyone is trying to start a civil war is those people who write signs like "Bury Obama next to Hitler". PLEASE!!! There is absolutely no correlation between the madman and our current president. But in order to instill fear in people, that is what you do, you compare someone with dissimilar ideas with the most vile people imaginable and the sheep will follow. And by 'you', I don't mean you in particular T, I mean a collective 'you'.

What privilege?


Kind of the same strategy as calling anyone who doesn't agree with one of Obama's policies an Uncle Tom Racist Oppressing Scumbag?

[countrybhoy]

i feel for you right now . if AMERICANS can take back thier own country there is hope for the rest of us .there is to much .pc madness in this world now .we open our doors to people to give them a better life . what thanks do we get? they try and turn our countries into the one the say they are fleeing .you dont like they way we live fvck off you came here we didnt ask you to and we have a right to defend ourselves against people that what to change our ways of life . . nationalism does not = nazi . it = pride in our own culture.



( ps im pissed ) but these are still my views

[BgMc31]

What privilege?


Kind of the same strategy as calling anyone who doesn't agree with one of Obama's policies an Uncle Tom Racist Oppressing Scumbag?

Touchy, touchy, Godfather!! No one was implying racism, but you're quick to point it out. Kinda Freudian don't you think?

Or do you mean to imply that everyone who supports Obama is a lazy, good for nothin, looking for goverment handouts?

[BgMc31]

i feel for you right now . if AMERICANS can take back thier own country there is hope for the rest of us .there is to much .pc madness in this world now .we open our doors to people to give them a better life . what thanks do we get? they try and turn our countries into the one the say they are fleeing .you dont like they way we live fvck off you came here we didnt ask you to and we have a right to defend ourselves against people that what to change our ways of life . . nationalism does not = nazi . it = pride in our own culture.



( ps im pissed ) but these are still my views

Which "AMERICANS" should take back their country, Countryboy?

[TITANIUM]

CNN covered it. ABC News covered it, NBC News covered it. I don't know about CBS but I know Fox News covered it as well. I don't know what mainstream media you are referring to.

Yes the did cover it, but it was minimal.I should have made that more clear and not a slanted view.
To understand the full gravity of the situation, it would have had to be shown in it's full , non edited form. Which, they will not do.Look at the million mom march and that got coverage for weeks. This guy, Obama, Is tearing away the fabric of this country.And People can't say that I'm paranoid.Or suffer from PTS from the war.I just pay attention to what I see and read.I know that we have found common ground, BgMc, and we can debate and talk civilly now. But , you cant deny that Obama is not doing well in the popularity column as he was in the primaries.I don't trust him, or any other politician running for that office.Should be a pre-requisite that the commander and chief, that holds that position, to have a minimum of 4 years in the military.After all, he is commander and chief.

Best

T

Handguns aren't going to be banned T. Calm down. And this thought of civil war is only being talked about by those who fear their losing THEIR privilege. If anyone is trying to start a civil war is those people who write signs like "Bury Obama next to Hitler". PLEASE!!! There is absolutely no correlation between the madman and our current president. But in order to instill fear in people, that is what you do, you compare someone with dissimilar ideas with the most vile people imaginable and the sheep will follow. And by 'you', I don't mean you in particular T, I mean a collective 'you'.

The way it will be done BgMc is through the UN small arms treaty. So, I'm not Really going out of the text of reality in saying this.It's been the plan of the UN to do this for some time now.Busch, (POS), wouldn't entertain the idea of sining such legislation do to the fact that he couldn't vote it trough the Senate.But, Obama has the votes my friend.So never say never.It's not a safe view of seeing/planning things to come.

Best

T

What privilege?

Correct, it's not a privilege, it's a god given right.
Period.No Grey area on that.

Best

T


Kind of the same strategy as calling anyone who doesn't agree with one of Obama's policies an Uncle Tom Racist Oppressing Scumbag?

There is a strategy going on here. There is definitely a racist component taking place here.I think if you pretend that Obama is white, and look at it in prospective, Every one would not agree with his agenda.By taking color out of the equation, people can see more clearly, I think.

Best

T

i feel for you right now . if AMERICANS can take back their own country there is hope for the rest of us .there is to much .pc madness in this world now .we open our doors to people to give them a better life . what thanks do we get? they try and turn our countries into the one the say they are fleeing .you dint like they way we live fvck off you came here we didn't ask you to and we have a right to defend ourselves against people that what to change our ways of life . . nationalism does not = Nazi . it = pride in our own culture.

I here what your saying.But they are here to stay until the government figures out that the need to close the boarders and deport these illegal immigrants.This is being looked at from a military standpoint, (by myself).

Best

T

( ps im pissed ) but these are still my views

Touchy, touchy, Godfather!! No one was implying racism, but you're quick to point it out. Kinda Freudian don't you think?

Or do you mean to imply that everyone who supports Obama is a lazy, good for nothing, looking for government handouts?

Which "AMERICANS" should take back their country, Countryboy?

I think Country boy is talking about legal Americans that work and contribute to society.That would be whites, blacks, Colombians, or what ever.I don't think it was made to sound like a racially biased remark.I myself , don't see color, religious creed, or any other stupid racist crap that floats around the forum sometimes.

Best

T

[BgMc31]

T,

I understand what you are saying. I don't know about the UN Arms treaty thing. I'm not a far thinking as you are and I just don't see the evidence of that taking place. Like you I go by what I see and read. But obviously we are reading two different things. For instance you are quick to point out that this march had 1.2 million participants. That is what all right wing media is reporting, but the left wing are saying there were only 10's of thousands. Similar to what went down with the original Million Man March. Whites claimed 10's of thousands, while blacks claimed over a million. Let's face it, what we read is not always accurate.

That leads me to racial element being thrown around. It obvious there is a greater racial element with this president than any other. Obama has suffered in the polls but isn't that to be expected? President Reagan (the conservative Republican and right wing icon) enjoyed over 70% approval when he 1st took office and it dwindled to below 50% during his 1st year (I believe it dwindled to either 48% or 43%). But let me digress back to the racial element. This president has had more threats against his life than any other president to date. Most of the threats are based on racist rhetoric. You cannot deny that much of the opposition towards Obama is simply because many don't believe a black man should be president. This may be a small minority of the opposition but lets face the fact, this is a very load minority. You said it yourself, if Obama were white the conversations would be a little different. And I do admit, there are many on the far left that hop, too quickly, to use the race card. Many would have you believe that any opposition to Obama paints you as a racist. Again, like the right wing, this is a very small minority, but it is a very loud minority.

I would love to get past race (whether people here believe it or not), but the way to get past it isn't by ignoring it. Because of the racial diversity in my own family, race, religion, and language don't have an impact on my decision making. But unlike you, I do see the races because there are differences between us all, but that should not be a detriment to us but rather a strength.

As far as my question to Country Boy, it was based on many of his previous posts. He's proven himself time and time again to be against the mixing of races and quick to point out the inadequacies of minorities without doing the same for his own race.

[Kratos]

He is the most liberal president we have ever had.

A small percentage of the objections are most likely based on race.

Obama enjoys an equal amount of security with his skin color as opposition.
It isn't PC for blacks to be anti-Obama, white people are affraid to be called racist.

His agenda is liberal and huge, his defict is like nothing we have ever seen. If not for his skin color, his approval rating would be lower imo. I know you don't agree bgmc that race is helping Obama, and who knows for sure, I don't, just a guess. You know where I stand politically and you know he's on the opposite side from me. I know my objections aren't racially motivated.

[BgMc31]

He is the most liberal president we have ever had.

A small percentage of the objections are most likely based on race.

Obama enjoys an equal amount of security with his skin color as opposition.
It isn't PC for blacks to be anti-Obama, white people are affraid to be called racist.

His agenda is liberal and huge, his defict is like nothing we have ever seen. If not for his skin color, his approval rating would be lower imo. I know you don't agree bgmc that race is helping Obama, and who knows for sure, I don't, just a guess. You know where I stand politically and you know he's on the opposite side from me. I know my objections aren't racially motivated.

I do know where you stand Kratos and I know you aren't racially motivated. But where we differ is you say he benefits from his skin color, I say he is hindered by it. But our differences are typical of the polarization of this country. I bet you think the Reagan is the epitomy of what a president should be, I would venture to say that Reagan wasn't a good president. But again those would fall along racial lines as well. It's just the fact in our country.

[TITANIUM]

We all came from the same place. In 2 or three more generations, most black/whites will be integrated into society as anew. Part of this bullshit racial dilemma that I see is further promulgated by ignorance and stupidity around the world. but more so in this country. My daughter is 16-1/2 and dates blacks. As long as who ever she dates, as long as she's happy, then that's where it ends.Interesting turn of advents, to say the least. Yes, Obama has a blessing being the first black president, no doubt a history in the making. But, in the same token, everyone is watching every step this guy is making. And, add to the fact that he is walking into a political nightmare and a recession, only makes this situation more vexing for him.It is part of the new world we must adapt to. The fact that , if obama was a white candidate and ran the same campaign model, he would have never even made it to the primary.It is what it is. Now, from what I have seen, as a whole, is that some blacks are very biased and racist towards whites.This is not to say that whites are any better at this problem than blacks. I was a Reagan man only due to the fact he was an excellent strategist at fighting a war. and I served under him in the eighties. I think he did some shit wrong, but we can find fault with anybody.I guess in a thousand more years, we can be all mixed up as a population,(skin color). then we can concertrate on the really problems we need to fix and address them without this racist bullshit that people just can't get buy.It's like a bunch of children in a playground pointing fingers at each other saying, "your it", or something.I don't like obama for what he is trying to do,that's it. I didn't like Busch either. Hated the Clinton administration also. So, You can see that I make my judgements on who the candidate is as a person and the decisions he makes.

Best

T

[TITANIUM]

Good evening bro's, I See that Kratos and MuscleScience are up late with myself. I thought I was the only late nighter around here.LOL

Best

T

[MuscleScience]

Touchy, touchy, Godfather!! No one was implying racism, but you're quick to point it out. Kinda Freudian don't you think?

Or do you mean to imply that everyone who supports Obama is a lazy, good for nothin, looking for goverment handouts?

Pretty much everyone that Liberal America feels bad for.

[TITANIUM]

My Mom was there!!!

I heard all about this...

she said there was a sign there that said "Bury Obama next to Hitler"

I wish I had gone...

I know Cloe85,(off forum) and her mom did go.

There was around 1.2 to 1.5 million people there.

It was like people protesting against the Vietnam war.

Was an amazing turn out.

That's what part of the truth that main stream media will not tell you.

Best

T

[BgMc31]

We all came from the same place. In 2 or three more generations, most black/whites will be integrated into society as anew. Part of this bullshit racial dilemma that I see is further promulgated by ignorance and stupidity around the world. but more so in this country. My daughter is 16-1/2 and dates blacks. As long as who ever she dates, as long as she's happy, then that's where it ends.Interesting turn of advents, to say the least. Yes, Obama has a blessing being the first black president, no doubt a history in the making. But, in the same token, everyone is watching every step this guy is making. And, add to the fact that he is walking into a political nightmare and a recession, only makes this situation more vexing for him.It is part of the new world we must adapt to. The fact that , if obama was a white candidate and ran the same campaign model, he would have never even made it to the primary.It is what it is. Now, from what I have seen, as a whole, is that some blacks are very biased and racist towards whites.This is not to say that whites are any better at this problem than blacks. I was a Reagan man only due to the fact he was an excellent strategist at fighting a war. and I served under him in the eighties. I think he did some shit wrong, but we can find fault with anybody.I guess in a thousand more years, we can be all mixed up as a population,(skin color). then we can concertrate on the really problems we need to fix and address them without this racist bullshit that people just can't get buy.It's like a bunch of children in a playground pointing fingers at each other saying, "your it", or something.I don't like obama for what he is trying to do,that's it. I didn't like Busch either. Hated the Clinton administration also. So, You can see that I make my judgements on who the candidate is as a person and the decisions he makes.

Best

T

Hey T, I have an 18yr old daughter who dates everything from Blacks to Asians and everything in between. But of course, having such a racially diverse family as I do, I have no choice but to accept. But because of the racially diverse background of my family, I know there are trials and tribulations that an racially and ethnically mixed family goes through. I know Obama is in the position he's in because of the huge ground swell of support he got from minorities. But I also know and have heard of the extreme racist rhetoric from large swaths of the opposition. You see what you see and I see what I see, neither is wrong but we pay attention to only what we want to pay attention to.

My father spent 30yrs in the Army and served during the Reagan years, and I can tell you that he and most of his black servicemen friends weren't Reagan supporters and if you recall the amount of black enlistments during the Reagan years was higher than any other time. Blacks enlisted not because of their support for Reagan but because the economic situation for blacks during the Reagan years were dier and blacks saw the military as their only way out.

Again, T, I know guys like you, Kratos, and Musclescience aren't racist, but you cannot deny that many on this forum and elsewhere who are opposed to Obama, do so mainly because of the color of his skin.

BTW, I was a huge Clinton fan (and still am) and most blacks will tell you that during that time, black Americans really felt things were looking up.

Pretty much everyone that Liberal America feels bad for.

That's a sad stereotype MuscleScience. The fact that the man garnered almost 66% of the vote and won by a margin larger than any other modern president since Reagan should show you that he stands for more than what you think.

[TITANIUM]

Hey T, I have an 18yr old daughter who dates everything from Blacks to Asians and everything in between. But of course, having such a racially diverse family as I do, I have no choice but to accept. But because of the racially diverse background of my family, I know there are trials and tribulations that an racially and ethnically mixed family goes through. I know Obama is in the position he's in because of the huge ground swell of support he got from minorities. But I also know and have heard of the extreme racist rhetoric from large swaths of the opposition. You see what you see and I see what I see, neither is wrong but we pay attention to only what we want to pay attention to.

My father spent 30yrs in the Army and served during the Reagan years, and I can tell you that he and most of his black servicemen friends weren't Reagan supporters and if you recall the amount of black enlistments during the Reagan years was higher than any other time. Blacks enlisted not because of their support for Reagan but because the economic situation for blacks during the Reagan years were dier and blacks saw the military as their only way out.

Again, T, I know guys like you, Kratos, and Musclescience aren't racist, but you cannot deny that many on this forum and elsewhere who are opposed to Obama, do so mainly because of the color of his skin.

BTW, I was a huge Clinton fan (and still am) and most blacks will tell you that during that time, black Americans really felt things were looking up.



That's a sad stereotype MuscleScience. The fact that the man garnered almost 66% of the vote and won by a margin larger than any other modern president since Reagan should show you that he stands for more than what you think.

I'm not a racist, obviously.I think you can see that by now.Obama just stepped in at bad economic times.So he is going to get more crap than normally incurred, (even if he was white). If he was put in office, say in the early 90's, it wouldn't be as negativley noticed.And he is very leftist aggressive by nature.I don't think that the US is ready for such a change yet, if at all. As far as my daughter goes, If she is happy, then that makes me happy.I don't see color.But until we can get through the color ignorance in this country, it will only compound problems for us all.

Best

T

[starkiller]

Hello my fellow Americans! Race is a tactic used to silence critics however, race is a real issue amongst our society. Many people enjoy this tactic because it benifits them. Instead lets come together and talk about what truly is the issue and that is how the proposed policies of this administration will not really effect us at the moment, but our children and grandchildren in the future. You see liberals are organized and hard to break and have longe term agendas as conservatives are loose and reckeless with there agendas, both are no where close to taking care of us the people. We will always disagree and through the years even I have been side tracked with the underming of our constitution, hell they dont even teach civics in school any more? We the people are waking up, but dont be quick to grab a gun and take to the streets as this is not how this will be settled. We will do this through organizing and voting! Organizing and voting is the fastest way to reform our government. It is devestating to see a divided country and you can bet it is by design. So lets not be so quick to play the race card as it is getting old and the people are becoming desesitized by the whole idea, pretty soon calling some one a raciest will not be taken seriously. Keep your cool, stay focused, communicated with your local government, hold them accountable, become members of like minded organizations. The opposition has been exposed and accountability and transparency will truly be at the forefront for all to see.
Peace!

[kickinit]

CNN covered it. ABC News covered it, NBC News covered it. I don't know about CBS but I know Fox News covered it as well. I don't know what mainstream media you are referring to.

Handguns aren't going to be banned T. Calm down. And this thought of civil war is only being talked about by those who fear their losing THEIR privilege. If anyone is trying to start a civil war is those people who write signs like "Bury Obama next to Hitler". PLEASE!!! There is absolutely no correlation between the madman and our current president. But in order to instill fear in people, that is what you do, you compare someone with dissimilar ideas with the most vile people imaginable and the sheep will follow. And by 'you', I don't mean you in particular T, I mean a collective 'you'.

Your not serious are you? Hilter and Obama have several things in common, the way THEY it should be, the WAY WE should be, WHAT WE shall provide. We have this thing Hilter didn't have a "CONSTITUTION: That is our book of rules, is not the job or the RIGHT of the president to change or make up his own, but your buddy Obama sure is trying.

[kickinit]

Racism is a card for the "WEAK"! Nothing more..... Because thats the only card they think the have. Hell I think your a REVERSE racist thats accusing me of racism because im WHITE.

Pathetic that it even came up on this thread.

[BgMc31]

Racism is a card for the "WEAK"! Nothing more..... Because thats the only card they think the have. Hell I think your a REVERSE racist thats accusing me of racism because im WHITE.

Pathetic that it even came up on this thread.

When did I call you a racist? "Me thinks thou protesth too much..." As a matter of fact, I don't recall debating you at any time so both your above posts are equally pathetic. If you wish to debate please provide valid points and not hysterics.

Reverse racists...

[kickinit]

I didn't say anyone called me a racist, learn to read.... Just the fact you liberal jackasses have nothing more to bring up is quite PATHETIC.

Just put on your tin foil hat with your buddy Tock and have a sky is falling good time.

[BgMc31]

Again, resorting to childish name calling. There is no reasoning with someone like you therefore, I will not attempt to debate such a close minded individual. Good day to you!!!

[TITANIUM]

Racism is a card for the "WEAK"! Nothing more..... Because thats the only card they think the have. Hell I think your a REVERSE racist thats accusing me of racism because im WHITE.

Pathetic that it even came up on this thread.

It had to come up as it is a valid point. Now, I think that if you have specific examples of fact, then we could have a debate without name calling. As this does nothing productive, and just shows a sense of social immaturity.

The regulars here that debate things are usually, myself, BgMc, Muscle science, Kratos, Tock, Ninja, ect...If you want to debate and prove your point, then please do it in a manner becoming of the forum.

I have nothing against you. I don't really know who you are, but have seen you around here.

I am a conservative that would die defending that Constitution you speak of. I actually did defend it once upon a time, so, I do know what it means. My avatar says it all.

If you come in here and basically start a shit storm like this, no good will come from it. These guys here are educated, to say the least. Everyone here is able to voice there opinions, but we need mutual respect for each other.Or it just creates animosity and further advances and or promulgates the racist shit that goes on in this country.

Get a grip on your emotional rants and we can agree to disagree in a more civilized manner.

Best

T

[MuscleScience]

Hey T, I have an 18yr old daughter who dates everything from Blacks to Asians and everything in between. But of course, having such a racially diverse family as I do, I have no choice but to accept. But because of the racially diverse background of my family, I know there are trials and tribulations that an racially and ethnically mixed family goes through. I know Obama is in the position he's in because of the huge ground swell of support he got from minorities. But I also know and have heard of the extreme racist rhetoric from large swaths of the opposition. You see what you see and I see what I see, neither is wrong but we pay attention to only what we want to pay attention to.

My father spent 30yrs in the Army and served during the Reagan years, and I can tell you that he and most of his black servicemen friends weren't Reagan supporters and if you recall the amount of black enlistments during the Reagan years was higher than any other time. Blacks enlisted not because of their support for Reagan but because the economic situation for blacks during the Reagan years were dier and blacks saw the military as their only way out.

Again, T, I know guys like you, Kratos, and Musclescience aren't racist, but you cannot deny that many on this forum and elsewhere who are opposed to Obama, do so mainly because of the color of his skin.

BTW, I was a huge Clinton fan (and still am) and most blacks will tell you that during that time, black Americans really felt things were looking up.



That's a sad stereotype MuscleScience. The fact that the man garnered almost 66% of the vote and won by a margin larger than any other modern president since Reagan should show you that he stands for more than what you think.

I dont know what you mean. I wasnt talking about Obama. I was talking about all of Liberal America. Most of my generation voted for him simple because he wasnt a 80 year old man.

Also you can say the reverse for blacks voting for obama. There was a very large percentage that voted for Obama based on race. I wont deny that some whites, hispanics, asians ect. oppose Obama because he is half black. I still say that white people are the most tolerant people in the world. Sure there are still racist, but white european culture has welcomed almost every race and creed into modern society. I couldnt walk down the streets of Tehran, or Nairobi or Tokyo without getting jailed or attacked or beheaded or denied serves in Tokyo. Just my 2 cynical cents.

[BgMc31]

....double post

[BgMc31]

I dont know what you mean. I wasnt talking about Obama. I was talking about all of Liberal America. Most of my generation voted for him simple because he wasnt a 80 year old man.

Also you can say the reverse for blacks voting for obama. There was a very large percentage that voted for Obama based on race. I wont deny that some whites, hispanics, asians ect. oppose Obama because he is half black. I still say that white people are the most tolerant people in the world. Sure there are still racist, but white european culture has welcomed almost every race and creed into modern society. I couldnt walk down the streets of Tehran, or Nairobi or Tokyo without getting jailed or attacked or beheaded or denied serves in Tokyo. Just my 2 cynical cents.

I see your point Musclescience, but I disagree with your assessment of 'most of my generation'. Even with every single black person of voting age in america voting for Obama, it still pails in comparison to the group of whites who oppose Obama because of his race (upwards of 10% of all voting age whites) according to some statistics.

I also see your point about white Europeans. But like you I can't walk the streets of Tehran, Nairobi, or Tokyo but I also can't walk the streets of some places in Russia, Poland, Italy, Spain, Argentina, Brazil, etc. all because the color of my skin.

Racism exists, there's no denying that, but you cannot deny that it also has some place in politics. Just look at some of the rhetoric during some of these rallies. It's right there in the open.

Here's my overall beef Musclescience, many conservatives act like our best days are behind us. But for Blacks and other minorities, this is the best time in history for us. Sure the unemployment rate is hovering around 10% and around 20% for blacks. But for once we are seeing a level playing field (or as close to level as we've ever seen it) and we have Obama to thank for that. You bring up the issue of blacks voting for Obama, did you realize that Obama garnered more white votes than any other Democratic presidential candidate since JFK? It seems to me that SOME whites are fearful that their "supposed" sense of entitlement has come to an end. But it simply isn't true. The man isn't hitler or the anti-christ and I don't see him destroying our constitution. Bush did more against the constitution than Obama has ever proposed. If people would simply LISTEN to the man and not to this right wing nut jobs then they would see that, even though he is very liberal, he believes in the constitution. Look, I don't agree with everything that Obama does (I'm major pissed about the continuation of the Patriot Act shit), but I agree with many of his policies, much more than any republican candidate.

I want this country to succeed, I'm American and damned proud to be one. But the anger and rhetoric expoused today against this man is simply unfounded. People need to think for themselves and maybe we can have rational dialogue about this and I think we really do need a rational dialogue about race, but there appears to be blatant ignorance on both sides.

[Kratos]

still pails in comparison to the group of whites who oppose Obama because of his race (upwards of 10% of all voting age whites) according to some statistics.

Obama garnered more white votes than any other Democratic presidential candidate since JFK?

It seems to me that SOME whites are fearful that their "supposed" sense of entitlement has come to an end. .

Can you post those statistics please. I curious as to the source.

Maybe it isn't our white sense of entitlement that drives us, but our sense of entitlement that our nation remain a world power. The best days are behind us, but not because black people have equal rights. But because post WWII there were no industrilaized nations to produce anything. Japan was blown up, Europe was in shambels and the rest of the world was a joke. Made in the USA doesn't exist anymore, nations are increasing competition for jobs and resources. Our national debt is spiraling, our economy is in the toilet, and we have a president pledging everything to everybody. So maybe it's out of concern for country rather then skin color. The idea that Amercia should be on top isn't concidered eliteist yet, is it. Dismissing the people's objections in the name of racism is taking away the voice of the people, and you should be against that.

[Mooseman33]

I see your point Musclescience, but I disagree with your assessment of 'most of my generation'. Even with every single black person of voting age in america voting for Obama, it still pails in comparison to the group of whites who oppose Obama because of his race (upwards of 10% of all voting age whites) according to some statistics.

I also see your point about white Europeans. But like you I can't walk the streets of Tehran, Nairobi, or Tokyo but I also can't walk the streets of some places in Russia, Poland, Italy, Spain, Argentina, Brazil, etc. all because the color of my skin.

Racism exists, there's no denying that, but you cannot deny that it also has some place in politics. Just look at some of the rhetoric during some of these rallies. It's right there in the open.

Here's my overall beef Musclescience, many conservatives act like our best days are behind us. But for Blacks and other minorities, this is the best time in history for us. Sure the unemployment rate is hovering around 10% and around 20% for blacks. But for once we are seeing a level playing field (or as close to level as we've ever seen it) and we have Obama to thank for that. You bring up the issue of blacks voting for Obama, did you realize that Obama garnered more white votes than any other Democratic presidential candidate since JFK? It seems to me that SOME whites are fearful that their "supposed" sense of entitlement has come to an end. But it simply isn't true. The man isn't hitler or the anti-christ and I don't see him destroying our constitution. Bush did more against the constitution than Obama has ever proposed. If people would simply LISTEN to the man and not to this right wing nut jobs then they would see that, even though he is very liberal, he believes in the constitution. Look, I don't agree with everything that Obama does (I'm major pissed about the continuation of the Patriot Act shit), but I agree with many of his policies, much more than any republican candidate.

I want this country to succeed, I'm American and damned proud to be one. But the anger and rhetoric expoused today against this man is simply unfounded. People need to think for themselves and maybe we can have rational dialogue about this and I think we really do need a rational dialogue about race, but there appears to be blatant ignorance on both sides.

are u saying that just cause a Black man was elected it leveled the playing field?

if not, please explain what he has done to level the field?

and the propblem with Obama is when people DO listen to him. the man is smooth, one hell of a speaker, but what he says does not translate into what he is doing, he tells people what they need to know, what they need to do.

[BgMc31]

Can you post those statistics please. I curious as to the source.

http://www.slate.com/id/2198397/

Maybe it isn't our white sense of entitlement that drives us, but our sense of entitlement that our nation remain a world power. The best days are behind us, but not because black people have equal rights. But because post WWII there were no industrilaized nations to produce anything. Japan was blown up, Europe was in shambels and the rest of the world was a joke. Made in the USA doesn't exist anymore, nations are increasing competition for jobs and resources. Our national debt is spiraling, our economy is in the toilet, and we have a president pledging everything to everybody. So maybe it's out of concern for country rather then skin color. The idea that Amercia should be on top isn't concidered eliteist yet, is it. Dismissing the people's objections in the name of racism is taking away the voice of the people, and you should be against that.

I understand your gripes Kratos and I agree with everything you posted. But what both you and I are speaking of is opinion based, based purely on our experience. I am glad you feel this way and not color based. But I hear the rhetoric (maybe I'm a bit too sensative to the situation) and I would love it to be just that simple (what you posted), but to ignore the racial paradigm is fool hearted, IMO.

Again, I'm not dismissing SOME people's objections in the name of racism. I am perfectly aware of people's legitimate concerns. What concerns me are the unfounded concerns and the underlyning racial overtones of those objections.

are u saying that just cause a Black man was elected it leveled the playing field?

Yes, I believe the election of a Black president has leveled the playing field, for the most part. There are still unbalances in our society that, eventually, because the election of a minority president, will continue to diminish.

if not, please explain what he has done to level the field?

and the propblem with Obama is when people DO listen to him. the man is smooth, one hell of a speaker, but what he says does not translate into what he is doing, he tells people what they need to know, what they need to do.

What has he said that he hasn't done, or a least, has tried to get done? Let's face reality, a president is supposed to be charismatic. Don't fault him for that. Hell Bush had charisma that appealed to a certain demographic as was Clinton and hell Reagan was an actor full of charisma. Any public official needs a certain amount of that. Why is it now its a problem?

In bold ^^^^

[BgMc31]

Hey fellas, I heard a pretty interesting observation by a well renowned comedian last night about the 'Obama effect'. To conservatives and many whites everything that's wrong with this country is blamed on Obama. To liberal and most minorities everything that's good with this country is because of Obama. Both are wrong but I believe that is the general consensus of bulk of this country.

[Mooseman33]

i never said there was a problem with him being smooth other then the fact to many people believe him.
i think the man is an amazing speaker, my point must have come across wrong.
i disagree with how he state" here is what u need to know", and does it often.
we need to know the whole scoop, not just what he or his handlers want us to know, we have that right.

and please answer my question, what has he done to level the field?

[BgMc31]

i never said there was a problem with him being smooth other then the fact to many people believe him.
i think the man is an amazing speaker, my point must have come across wrong.
i disagree with how he state" here is what u need to know", and does it often.
we need to know the whole scoop, not just what he or his handlers want us to know, we have that right.

and please answer my question, what has he done to level the field?

The fact that he was elected levels the playing field...somewhat. By that I mean, it knocked down a ton of stereotypes. Before Obama, the prevailing attitude (and it still is to some) that people just aren't ready for a black President.

Without trying to sound contrite, do you believe his election doesn't level the playing field? I thought you believed that the playing field was already level...

[Mooseman33]

the outcome of his presidency i believe will determine if the field has been level.
if he continues this way, and is a one term presidentand leaves office with the country being as divided as it is today, then i think it will hurt the black man in future political runnings.
the common man i dont think will be or has been affected either way, sht is worst for everyone today then in the past.

if he turns things around, which i doubt he will, then i think he will have leveled the field.
i think it is a wait and see.
but then again i think the black man has the leg up on the white man with affirmitive action, but thats a whole other topic..

just like to get ur views big guy..

[BgMc31]

the outcome of his presidency i believe will determine if the field has been level.
if he continues this way, and is a one term presidentand leaves office with the country being as divided as it is today, then i think it will hurt the black man in future political runnings.
the common man i dont think will be or has been affected either way, sht is worst for everyone today then in the past.

if he turns things around, which i doubt he will, then i think he will have leveled the field.
i think it is a wait and see.
but then again i think the black man has the leg up on the white man with affirmitive action, but thats a whole other topic..

just like to get ur views big guy..

Very profound point Moose... I hadn't thought about that. But I think you are correct about the success or failure of Obama determining the playing field. So I agree we will have to wait and see.

Affirmative action...LOL...yeah, that's a whole 'nother topic that we can discuss someday! I know it's affected you negatively, but I've also seen why it's needed. That is a topic where I know you and I will never see eye to eye! LOL!!!

[MuscleScience]

Can you post those statistics please. I curious as to the source.

Maybe it isn't our white sense of entitlement that drives us, but our sense of entitlement that our nation remain a world power. The best days are behind us, but not because black people have equal rights. But because post WWII there were no industrilaized nations to produce anything. Japan was blown up, Europe was in shambels and the rest of the world was a joke. Made in the USA doesn't exist anymore, nations are increasing competition for jobs and resources. Our national debt is spiraling, our economy is in the toilet, and we have a president pledging everything to everybody. So maybe it's out of concern for country rather then skin color. The idea that Amercia should be on top isn't concidered eliteist yet, is it. Dismissing the people's objections in the name of racism is taking away the voice of the people, and you should be against that.

I agree, I really dont see anyone that thinks our best days our behind us consider race as a major component of that. I believe our best days our behind us because of our continued social decay and entitlements among other things. I think probably the most destructive force that is driving this nation down is the lose of our competitive spirit. Competition is what has made us a world hyperpower as Chirac called us a few years ago. It is what has built the worlds largest middle class and the worlds most wealthy men. The idea that everyone of adult age is equal is just false. Not everyone can compete in our society equally. While I truly believe the playing field should be equal. I do not believe in paying for those who are unable to compete or unwilling. That is my major beef with socialism, its not leveling the playing field for everyone as much as its punishing those who can compete by taxing them to pay for the less fortunate. I would much rather pay 30% of my income to a solid charity than paying 30% to the wasteful government.

Just to be clear I do not dislike Obama, I am firmly against any more movement towards a more socialist society. That is the democratic platform in my perception. Whether anyone thinks its miss guided or not. I actually think that Obama is heads above Bush. He clearly had a better message than McCain, or the Republican party in shambles after 8 years of Bush.

[Cloe85]

I am listening to what all of you are saying, and you all have points.

I don't necessarly agree with all of them, but I don't need to.

A very good read.

[Kratos]

This is your source?
http://www.slate.com/id/2198397/

are you really serious with that bgmc????

If Obama Loses
Racism is the only reason McCain might beat him...well he didn't loose so what does that mean?

"Choosing John McCain, in particular, would herald the construction of a bridge to the 20th century—and not necessarily the last part of it"

yeah there is an unbias peice

"If Obama loses, our children will grow up thinking of equal opportunity as a myth. His defeat would say that when handed a perfect opportunity to put the worst part of our history behind us, we chose not to. In this event, the world's judgment will be severe and inescapable: The United States had its day but, in the end, couldn't put its own self-interest ahead of its crazy irrationality over race."

translation...we must elect Obama because he is black, not in spite of...is that what you want, not me.

[BgMc31]

This is your source?
http://www.slate.com/id/2198397/

are you really serious with that bgmc????

If Obama Loses
Racism is the only reason McCain might beat him...well he didn't loose so what does that mean?

"Choosing John McCain, in particular, would herald the construction of a bridge to the 20th century—and not necessarily the last part of it"

yeah there is an unbias peice

"If Obama loses, our children will grow up thinking of equal opportunity as a myth. His defeat would say that when handed a perfect opportunity to put the worst part of our history behind us, we chose not to. In this event, the world's judgment will be severe and inescapable: The United States had its day but, in the end, couldn't put its own self-interest ahead of its crazy irrationality over race."

translation...we must elect Obama because he is black, not in spite of...is that what you want, not me.

No Kratos I'm not necessarily agreeing with the message, just the stats contained in the message. I didn't want Obama to be elected because he's black, but I also didn't want him elected in spite of being black....your above statement indicates that being black is a bad thing. That isn't what you meant is it?

[Kratos]

No Kratos I'm not necessarily agreeing with the message, just the stats contained in the message. I didn't want Obama to be elected because he's black, but I also didn't want him elected in spite of being black....your above statement indicates that being black is a bad thing. That isn't what you meant is it?

in the form I'm using the term "in spite of" what I mean is "without regard for," it's an acceptable use of the term. What I mean is Obama being elected without regard for his race, that is what I and I think you would want. And he was elected proving the stats unfounded.

We didn't have an obligation to elect him because of his skin color, that's what I was objecting to. Skin color should dictate obligation of votes.