The U.N. Global Gun Ban Treaty

[BgMc31]

As you know I write extensively about health care policy, and I have already covered this issue ad nauseam in other threads within this sub-forum. Rather than rehash the same arguments over and over and over again, and since I know you support this public option nonsense, I have a question for you.

What is your opinion on the proposed penalty tax and/or discussion of a 5 year prison sentence for declining to purchase health insurance at all?

I disagree with that part of the bill. Look, I don't agree with everything in the bill. What I agree with is a need for universal healthcare.

[BgMc31]

Can you show me proof that most Americans want it. Seems like its pretty hotly contested imo.

Please check the link I posted on post #19

Right..... but from what I have heard on TV (yes yes..... we all know how reliable they are) Obama want's no public option. It was to my understanding that thats why people were infuriated...... other than illegals getting insurance that we'll be paying for.....

~Haz~

Obama is all for a public option. Check the actual bill, not listening to political commentary.

Yes, and deport all the illegals while we are at it.

I don't care where they go, but you can't stay here.

I'm in a shitty mood today or something.

I think it's the holidays coming on or something.

Anyways, like I said before, 150 years ago, they would of hung these fvcking politicians for tyranny against the people.

Chipping away at our Constitution and bill of rights.

I fought for what???

Somone please remind me.

Makes me brutally mad, and disgusted at the same time.

Best

T

And who do you propose pay for those deportations my conservative comrade? Conservatives are always whining about deporting illegals but again have no way of doing it. Typical conservatism. Just like this health care issue. They oppose any type of reform but agree the health care industry needs to be reformed. Political double-talk? Lastly with gun control...T, I guess you didn't read the politico (a conservative publication), the questionaire in question was filled out by a staffer. Blame obama for not being thorough, but don't blame him for positions he hasn't taken. He is in favor of GUN CONTROL, not eliminating all guns.

* Opposed bill okaying illegal gun use in home invasions. (Aug 2008)
* Ok for states & cities to determine local gun laws. (Apr 2008)
* FactCheck: Yes, Obama endorsed Illinois handgun ban. (Apr 2008)
* April 2008: "Bittergate" labeled Obama elitist. (Apr 2008)
* Respect 2nd Amendment, but local gun bans ok. (Feb 2008)
* Provide some common-sense enforcement on gun licensing. (Jan 2008)
* 2000: cosponsored bill to limit purchases to 1 gun per month. (Oct 2007)
* Concealed carry OK for retired police officers. (Aug 2007)
* Stop unscrupulous gun dealers dumping guns in cities. (Jul 2007)
* Keep guns out of inner cities--but also problem of morality. (Oct 2006)
* Bush erred in failing to renew assault weapons ban. (Oct 2004)
* Ban semi-automatics, and more possession restrictions. (Jul 1998)
* Voted NO on prohibiting lawsuits against gun manufacturers. (Jul 2005)
source: http://www.ontheissues.org/Barack_Obama.htm

So you were given a full frontal lobotomy then? Because if you are dumb enough to believe that...well you can't have much reasoning power left.

EVERYTHING the gov't sticks their hands in they will eventually control completely if left unchecked, and it's undoubtable that that's their goal...they want to control every facet of our lives

Instead of stooping to insults, as you usually do Ruhl (that is why no one takes your seriously in these intellectual debates), try posting some data to support your claims.

Let's see, the government owns the USPS and although its going bankrupt, it hasn't stopped private parties for starting mail service companies. While we pay into social security, companies still flourish in investments. The list goes on and on.

[Hazard]

Universal healthcare is soooo poorly run in other countries...... the waiting is rediculous..... death panels are rediculous..... If canada's universal healthcare was so great they wouldn't be traveling to america to have their surgeries done.

Thi plan is an increased tax burden on the working ameican and most of the people (that I know in person) that want universal healthcare either:

A. Don't have health insurance
B. Have familly that doesn't have insurance

I myself don't have health insurance at the moment..... i've had it my whole life up until a month ago. I can't afford insurance at the moment..... but i'll be able to at another point. I'll hold out without insurance till then..... I don't want to see my grandparents, mother, father, etc in the hospital dying because a group of people decided their life was worth less than someone else's.....

~Haz~

[BJJ]

It is not over until it's over.

A war is what you make it.

It's truly a separation of the government and the voice and will of the people.

It's not over yet bro.

And I will die defending that Constitution I swore to uphold.

From all threats, foreign and domestic.

And true, I may die in vein.

But, I still will be right in the end.

And to me, that's worth dieing for.

Had to happen sometime.

Best

T

In my opinion, bad times have to come for the humanity.
Respecting your point of view, I wish you Good Luck.

[BgMc31]

Universal healthcare is soooo poorly run in other countries...... the waiting is rediculous..... death panels are rediculous..... If canada's universal healthcare was so great they wouldn't be traveling to america to have their surgeries done.

Thi plan is an increased tax burden on the working ameican and most of the people (that I know in person) that want universal healthcare either:

A. Don't have health insurance
B. Have familly that doesn't have insurance

I myself don't have health insurance at the moment..... i've had it my whole life up until a month ago. I can't afford insurance at the moment..... but i'll be able to at another point. I'll hold out without insurance till then..... I don't want to see my grandparents, mother, father, etc in the hospital dying because a group of people decided their life was worth less than someone else's.....



~Haz~

Ahhh the popular death panel argument. It doesn't exist Haz. I pray that you would actually read what's being proposed by congress instead of listening to political commentary. No one will decide who is going to die and who isn't Haz. Also, what you fail to recognize Haz, is that no one will be forced to accept the public option. If people want an inferior product they have the OPTION to purchase it. For those of us with great healthcare (as my family does, but it costs me almost $900/mo), nothing will change (except maybe cheaper rates). The quality of my healthcare won't change. The key to all this is the word 'OPTION' ie. CHOICE!! You don't have to purchase or use this 'OPTION'.

[Mooseman33]

actually the public is not infavor of this bill.

Monday, November 23, 2009 Email to a Friend ShareThisAdvertisement

Just 38% of voters now favor the health care plan proposed by President Obama and congressional Democrats. That’s the lowest level of support measured for the plan in nearly two dozen tracking polls conducted since June.

The latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey finds that 56% now oppose the plan.

Half the survey was conducted before the Senate voted late Saturday to begin debate on its version of the legislation. Support for the plan was slightly lower in the half of the survey conducted after the Senate vote.

Prior to this, support for the plan had never fallen below 41%. Last week, support for the plan was at 47%. Two weeks ago, the effort was supported by 45% of voters.

Intensity remains stronger among those who oppose the push to change the nation’s health care system: 21% Strongly Favor the plan while 43% are Strongly Opposed.

Rasmussen Reports is continuing to track public opinion on the health care plan on a weekly basis. Next week’s Monday morning update will give an indication of whether these numbers reflect a trend of growing opposition or are merely statistical noise.

(Want a free daily e-mail update? If it's in the news, it's in our polls). Rasmussen Reports updates are also available on Twitter or Facebook.

Only 16% now believe passage of the plan will lead to lower health care costs. Nearly four times as many (60%) believe the plan will increase health care costs. Most (54%) also believe passage of the plan will hurt the quality of care.

As has been the case for months, Democrats favor the plan while Republicans and voters not affiliated with either major party are opposed. The latest numbers show support from 73% of those in the president’s party. The plan is opposed by 83% of Republicans and 70% of unaffiliated voters.

Other recent polling shows that Democrats consider health care reform to be the top priority for the president. Republicans and unaffiliated voters see deficit reduction as most important.

Among the nation’s senior citizens, 34% favor the health care plan and 60% are opposed. A majority of those under 30 favor the plan, but a majority of all other age groups are opposed (Premium Members can see full demographic crosstabs).

Support for health care has declined along with President Obama's approval ratings. For the first time in the Obama era, the Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Approval Index has been in negative double digits for nine straight days.

Despite the decline in support for the health care plan, 50% still say it is at least somewhat likely to become law this year. That figure includes 17% who say passage is Very Likely.

While Senate Democrats this weekend assembled enough votes to begin debate on the plan, many challenges remain. All Republican Senators and several Democrats, for example, have expressed opposition to the so-called “public option.” Sixty-three percent (63%) of voters nationwide say guaranteeing that no one is forced to change their health insurance coverage is a higher priority than giving consumers the choice of a "public option" government-run health insurance company. Most liberal voters say giving people the choice of a "public option" is more important. But most moderates take the opposite view and say guaranteeing that no one is forced to change their health insurance is the top priority.

Overall, 46% favor the creation of a government-sponsored non-profit health insurance option that people could choose instead of a private health insurance plan. However, if the plan encouraged companies to drop private health insurance coverage for their workers, support for the public option falls to 29%, and opposition rises to 58%.

As Scott Rasmussen, president of Rasmussen Reports, wrote in the Wall Street Journal: “The most important fundamental is that 68% of American voters have health insurance coverage they rate good or excellent. … Most of these voters approach the health care reform debate fearing that they have more to lose than to gain.”

Other challenging issues in the Senate debate include abortion and illegal immigration. Ever since the House's passage of the Stupak Amendment which says the "public option" would not cover elective abortions and that recipients of federal insurance subsidies could not use them to buy abortion coverage, the divide among Democrats has been visible.

Earlier polling showed that 48% nationwide favored the abortion ban, but most supporters of health care reform didn’t want to address the issue. Just 13% of all voters wanted abortion coverage mandated in the legislation.

On immigration, 83% say that proof of citizenship should be required before anyone can get health care assistance from a government program. Most Democrats while claiming the plan will not cover illegal immigrants are opposed to including a proof-of-citizenship stipulation.

[Mooseman33]

as posted on drudgereport...

[BgMc31]

Check what I said, Mooseman...I never said the public was in favor of the current bills in front of congress. What I said and my evidence pointed out is that the vast majority of the public is in favor of public option.

[TITANIUM]

And who do you propose pay for those deportations my conservative comrade? Conservatives are always whining about deporting illegals but again have no way of doing it. Typical conservatism. Just like this health care issue. They oppose any type of reform but agree the health care industry needs to be reformed. Political double-talk? Lastly with gun control...T, I guess you didn't read the politico (a conservative publication), the questionaire in question was filled out by a staffer. Blame obama for not being thorough, but don't blame him for positions he hasn't taken. He is in favor of GUN CONTROL, not eliminating all guns.

* Opposed bill okaying illegal gun use in home invasions. (Aug 2008)
* Ok for states & cities to determine local gun laws. (Apr 2008)
* FactCheck: Yes, Obama endorsed Illinois handgun ban. (Apr 2008)
* April 2008: "Bittergate" labeled Obama elitist. (Apr 2008)
* Respect 2nd Amendment, but local gun bans ok. (Feb 2008)
* Provide some common-sense enforcement on gun licensing. (Jan 2008)
* 2000: cosponsored bill to limit purchases to 1 gun per month. (Oct 2007)
* Concealed carry OK for retired police officers. (Aug 2007)
* Stop unscrupulous gun dealers dumping guns in cities. (Jul 2007)
* Keep guns out of inner cities--but also problem of morality. (Oct 2006)
* Bush erred in failing to renew assault weapons ban. (Oct 2004)
* Ban semi-automatics, and more possession restrictions. (Jul 1998)
* Voted NO on prohibiting lawsuits against gun manufacturers. (Jul 2005)
source: http://www.ontheissues.org/Barack_Obama.htm




Deportations can be done with some of the 850 billion dollars the government has invested in banks in China, (and other lucrative investments). I think we can find the money somewhere, since it's being printed on toilet paper by now.

As far as Obama goes, he was responsible for what anybody fills out on his behalf. Period. Don't blame it on a staffer, as I have heard this before. It does not hold water with me.

His voting record with firearms is horrible. He tried to back pedal the issue on his website, when he posted that he wanted to re-instate the assault weapons ban.Ya, that worked just great.

Do you know that the entire licensing system that states and the federal government is proven to be ineffective in the reduction of gun related crime?

Yup, it's true. It was instituted back in the early part of the last century to keep blacks from owning firearms. Then turned into a scheme to make money for the states and local governments. Then the anti's jumped on board and decided that it could be used to further there own agenda.

Which is what you see going on now in the liberal media hype. It's all BS, and you know it.

I think that the NICS is a good system, but that costs so much money to run it, it doesn't justify it's own existence.

I have a FFL, so I have all the statistics on this topic.But you should be able to access them from there website yourself.

Having to get a license to exercise a civil right is fvcking ridiculous.

And paying for it, or asking permission to exercise it is bull shit.

Best

T