Why So Many Mass Shootings?

[Beetlegeuse]

BTT.

I just wanted to bump this thread to the top and stop that fucking spammer's annoying fucking post from showing up in the fucking main forum.

[Beetlegeuse]

Mexifornia had the most mass slayings of any state in the nation.

This is according to Associated Press's own calculations, so take that for what it's worth. They defined mass slayings as four or more dead, not including the perp.

They claim 41 total mass slayings in the US in 2019, eight of them in the gun-free utopia of Kalifornia.


EDIT:
California’s Background Check Law Had No Impact on Gun Deaths, Johns Hopkins Study Finds

U.S. Gun Sales Near Record High as Violent Crime Rate Drops

Gun-related crimes fell 68 % and violent crimes 48.6 % in the same period that more guns were sold in the U.S.

[Beetlegeuse]

Two Dead in Texas Church Shooting, Highlighting the Need for Good Guys with Guns in Places of Worship

A good two minute read, three if you move your lips.


Biden Attacked Texas Governor For Signing Law Letting Churchgoers Carry Guns: ‘Totally Irrational’

“Dealing with firearms, it is irrational, with all due respect to the governor of Texas, irrational what they are doing. On the very day you see a mass shooting … and we’re talking about loosening access to have guns, to be able to take them into places of worship, it’s just absolutely irrational. It’s totally irrational.”

-- "Quid-Pro" Joe Bite-Me

Joe continued to say that magazines that can hold more than one bullet should be illegal.

Still more evidence, it is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt.


Geographic Evidence that Gun Deaths are Cultural

Too many graphics to re-post here, follow the link in the headline.

[Beetlegeuse]

Sunday's tragic shootings at West Freeway Church of Christ prove that political rhetoric and anti-gun hysteria don't save lives. Armed, quick-acting citizens do

Barack Obama's Gun Control Executive Order Big Fail

Six seconds—six split seconds— and Texas state law permitting concealed firearms inside places of worship saved lives at the West Freeway Church of Christ in White Settlement, just outside Fort Worth on Sunday.

A still unidentified gunman shot down two parishioners when he opened fire on innocents praying inside the church. The two parishioners died at a nearby hospital. The gunman was fatally shot six seconds after opening fire by two volunteer armed security guards.

Proof from the tragedy shows that at least four other congregants pointed handguns at the shooter, courtesy of the West Freeway Church of Christ having live streamed the 11 a.m. service.

According to police, the gunman entered the church at 11 a.m.

The gunman sat down as though he was just another worshipper.

A still shot—provided by law enforcement—shows at least four congregants pointing hand guns at the shooter, as fellow congregants were taking cover under church pews.

“Britt Farmer, the church’s senior minister, told the Dallas Morning News that the church lost two “great men today, but it could have been a lot worse, and I am thankful our government has allowed us the opportunity to protect ourselves.” (Fox News, Dec. 30, 2019)

“Gov. Greg Abbott, a Republican, signed eight gun bills into law in June that included one that allowed legal gun owners to bring their concealed weapons into places of worship.”

Thank God!

“Texas Tribune reported that the state’s House gave preliminary approval of the bill more than one year after the shooting at a church in Sutherland Springs that killed 26. (Fox News)

“We have learned many times over that there is no such thing as a gun-free zone,” state Sen. Donna Campbell, co-sponsor of the bill, said at the time. “Those with evil intentions will violate the law and carry out their heinous acts no matter what. It makes no sense to disarm the good guys and leave law-abiding citizens defenseless where violent offenders break the law to do great harm.

“Texas Lt. Gov. Dan Patrick, at a press conference after the shooting, praised the two volunteer security guards and credited the changes in state law.

“The immediate responder is the most important,” he said, according to the Dallas Morning News. “The citizen responder. Because even though the chief’s brave officers were here in less than a minute … by the time they got here, the shooting was over. And that always happens, that over 50 percent of shootings, our first responders, it’s usually over when they get there, no matter how hard they try.”

“Democrats like Julian Castro pointed to the shooting as another horrific outcome due to lax gun laws and poor leadership.

“We can take steps to reduce these horrific attacks right now—we just need our elected leaders to have the courage to act,” he tweeted.”

If anything, the tragedy that went down at West Freeway Church of Christ, is irrefutable proof that former President Barack Obama and the gun-grabbing Democrat progressives he now leads as their “Resistance” leader, are dead wrong in their gun-control policies.

Back in 2013 Obama ignored the conclusions of a study spawned by his executive order on gun control—which concluded that “Firearms used for self-defence” are an “Important Crime Deterrent”. (CNS News, Oct. 6, 2017)

“Self-defense can be an important crime deterrent,” concluded a study by the Centers for Disease Control (CDC) mandated via executive order by President Barack Obama. The findings also question the effectiveness of gun-control measures.

“The $10 million study was commissioned by President Barack Obama as part of 23 executive orders he signed in January of 2013.

“The study’s findings include:

* Gun-use is the safest of studied “self-protective strategies,”
* Suicide accounts for most firearm deaths,
* Felons who use guns very seldom obtain their guns by stealing them, and
* There is no evidence that gun restrictions reduce gun violence.

“Studies that directly assessed the effect of actual defensive uses of guns (i.e., incidents in which a gun was ‘used’ by the crime victim in the sense of attacking or threatening an offender) have found consistently lower injury rates among gun-using crime victims compared with victims who used other self-protective strategies,” the CDC study, entitled “Priorities For Research to Reduce the Threat of Firearm-Related Violence,” states.

“Researchers also found that the majority of firearm deaths are from suicide, not homicide. “Between the years 2000 and 2010, firearm-related suicides significantly outnumbered homicides for all age groups, annually accounting for 61 percent of the more than 335,600 people who died from firearm-related violence in the United States.”

“Most felons report obtaining the majority of their firearms from informal sources,” adds the report, while “stolen guns account for only a small percentage of guns used by convicted criminals.”

“The report expresses uncertainty about gun control measures, stating that “whether gun restrictions reduce firearm-related violence is an unresolved issue,” and that there is no evidence “that passage of right-to-carry laws decrease or increase violence crime.” It also stated that proposed “gun turn-in programs are ineffective.”

“Instead, researchers proposed gun safety technologies such as “external locking devices and biometric systems” to reduce firearm-related deaths.”

Then after ignoring the $10-million conclusions of his own commissioned study in 2013, Obama came back in 2016 unveiling a series of new executive actions aimed at reducing gun violence and making some political headway for his long-held gun control policies.

This went down in his last year in office, and as he was flanked by administration officials—including Attorney General Loretta E. Lynch and FBI Director James B. Comey, accusing Congress of “inaction” in the wake of several high-profile mass shootings and other gun-related violence.

“The package, which Obama plans to announce Tuesday, includes 10 separate provisions, White House officials said. One key provision would require more gun sellers — especially those who do business on the Internet and at gun shows — to be licensed and would force them to conduct background checks on potential buyers. (Washington Post, Jan.4, 2016)

“At the president’s direction, the FBI will begin hiring more than 230 additional examiners and other personnel to help process new background checks 24 hours a day, seven days a week. Also, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives has established a new investigation center to keep track of illegal gun trafficking online and will devote $4 million and additional personnel to enhance the National Integrated Ballistics Information Network.

“The gun lobby may be holding Congress hostage, but they can’t hold America hostage. We can’t accept this carnage in our communities,” Obama said in a Twitter message Monday evening, referring to the National Rifle Association.”

“Other aspects of the president’s plan aim to bolster the FBI’s background-check system, including a push by the U.S. Digital Service to modernize its processing operations and a proposal to add 200 new ATF agents and investigators to bolster enforcement.

…“At least 16 mass shootings” took place during the Obama presidency, including the killing of 14 people in San Bernardino, Calif., in December of 2015 by a married couple, reportedly inspired by the Islamic State.

…“Democratic presidential front-runner Hillary Clinton applauded Obama during a campaign stop in Iowa on Monday, saying she would go even further as president, and White House officials remained confident that public opinion is on their side.

“We are dedicated to doing everything we can to get guns out of the wrong hands,” said senior Obama adviser Valerie Jarrett. “We’ve talked to so many gun owners who don’t believe the NRA represents their views.”

Meanwhile, Sunday’s tragic shootings at West Freeway Church of Christ prove that political rhetoric and anti-gun hysteria don’t save lives. Armed, quick-acting citizens do.

[kelkel]

Meanwhile, Sunday’s tragic shootings at West Freeway Church of Christ prove that political rhetoric and anti-gun hysteria don’t save lives. Armed, quick-acting citizens do.

Great video and one hell of a shot by that citizen!

ps: Biden thought the Texas law was ridiculous. Then again, when has he ever been right?

[spywizard]

Attachment 177840not to make this a political response... Biden passed the law making schools gun free.. that's when it all really started..

[Proximal]

There are simply too many different people in the world of different beliefs. There seems to be more and more of these differing beliefs every day & the world keeps getting smaller through social media. There’s going to be more & more friction & disagreements.

Mass shootings have been done, thus when someone now thinks of it, they can take comfort in the fact that they are not unique nor odd. It’s been done & will be done repeatedly after they have thought about it, so why not act upon it.

Just my take. They simply don’t surprise me any more. Gun control or no gun control, they’ll still happen.

[Beetlegeuse]

Great video and one hell of a shot by that citizen!

ps: Biden thought the Texas law was ridiculous. Then again, when has he ever been right?

There won't be one church in a hundred with someone on guard duty with that level of marksmanship with a handgun. That's why I keep preaching you need (at least) one guy with a long gun, preferably someone who's shot people before. Fortunately, thanks to Dubya's GWOT, those people are not scarce. Their standard should be the ability to make a head shot reliably at the longest range possible in their sanctuary. If the perp has congregants gathered about him, a headshot might be the only way to prevent more congregants being killed.

I haven't read details since to know if this was true but I heard an initial report claiming one of the congregants who the perp shot had deliberately exposed himself to draw fire away from the others. Whether true or not, this goes to another point I also long have been preaching about. Your security detail needs body armor. As John Steinbeck said, if you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck. If you're waiting for a gunfight to happen but plan on only ever having even odds, you're an idiot. If all you've got is a handgun and all he's got is a handgun, it's an even fight, and if you set it up to happen that way, you're an idiot. If he's got a handgun and you've got a handgun and body armor, you've at least got a slight edge. The Sutherland Springs shooting might have been an anomaly but the perp had both a long gun and body armor. If you're not prepared for a threat of that level, you're not prepared for the worst. And if the worst visits you, its your own fault.

If you don't have LEOs who can provide their own, and if the church can't afford to keep a couple in on site, talk to the local PD. Maybe they can provide some 'retired' vests. Even old body armor is better than none. And you can boost their effectiveness with a speed plate.

A speed plate is a protective insert like the SAPI that goes in the military IBA, only smaller. Some are barely large enough to cover the heart but they're lighter and cooler and won't impair mobility but they will provide significant protection against getting shot in the heart with a rifle, plus they limit the blunt trauma if you get hit there with a pistol round. If your protective vest wasn't made to accept one, get one of the ladies of the church sew on a pocket for it. Or duct tape it on.

There are simply too many different people in the world of different beliefs. There seems to be more and more of these differing beliefs every day & the world keeps getting smaller through social media. There’s going to be more & more friction & disagreements.

Mass shootings have been done, thus when someone now thinks of it, they can take comfort in the fact that they are not unique nor odd. It’s been done & will be done repeatedly after they have thought about it, so why not act upon it.

Just my take. They simply don’t surprise me any more. Gun control or no gun control, they’ll still happen.

Depending on the source there are at least 33,000 Christian denominations and possibly as many as 41,000 (and Christians account for less than 1/3rd of the global population). Except for the mass murders inspired by the illiterate pedophile Muhammad, I don't think religion enters into most of these killings. You do have a lot of nut-jobs who are fixated on one religion or another but the overarching problem is still the killer's mental health. But what churches do offer is a target-rich environment for someone wanting to become a mass-murderer.

And FWIW, no one was shot in the largest mass murder in US history before Las Vegas massacre.

[Proximal]

Agree with you Beetle. By beliefs I wasn’t being exclusive to religion.

It’s always a pleasure (yet a little exhausting, lol) to read your posts.

[C27H40O3]

And FWIW, no one was shot in the largest mass murder in US history before Las Vegas massacre.

Don’t forget 9/11. That was a pretty large mass murder without a shot being fired.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Beetlegeuse]

Gun Laws Have Basically No Impact on Mass Shooter Rate

Long and technical, refuting a study done by the British Medical Journal (who you can count on to be unbiased, right?) that purports to claim that states with laxer gun laws have more mass shootings.

The author of the linked article refutes their findings, citing biased and illogical analysis. The conclusion of his refutation:

The fantastically rare instance of four or more people dying in a gun homicide, which makes up such a small fraction of gun deaths that it’s quite honestly barely worth mentioning, is correlated to both gun ownership and gun law permissiveness. The second correlation to gun law permissiveness is very likely just an artifact of the first correlation, because gun owners vote in their best interests. Gun laws likely have no correlation (possibly a negative correlation) to the rate of incidences of mass shootings.

Nothing in this study says more gun laws would reduce mass shootings. If they issue a revision of their multivariate analysis which controls against gun ownership rate itself, it might, but it’s very unlikely based on the data they presented.

Which may be why they didn’t do it.

[Beetlegeuse]

NTSB: School Buses Are 27x More Dangerous Than School Shootings

He's talking 1 minute on a school bus versus 1 minute at school, but you have to get into the meat of the video before he mentions that. Still, he makes a number of good points, particularly the injustice we do to our children needlessly raising them in a culture of fear.

[Beetlegeuse]

The Lessons We Didn’t Learn from Mass Murder

U.S.A.– -(AmmoLand.com)- February 14th is the third anniversary of the attack at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Florida. If you’re like me, it is uncomfortable to stir that painful memory. I’ve studied that attack because it would be worse to see it repeated simply because we didn’t learn a difficult lesson. You might not remember, but the attack at Columbine High School was almost 22 years ago. The attack at Sandy Hook Elementary School more than 8 years ago. That is plenty of time for us to act so our children are protected. I have an uncomfortable prediction about the next mass murder. The next attack will be at a place that politicians told us was safe because law-abiding people like us were disarmed. It is time we looked harder.

Gun control is the promise that ink on paper will protect our children. That isn’t a new idea. We’ve had gun control laws for over a century. Today, we have over twenty thousand firearms regulations, and we were told that each and every one of them was the essential step that would finally make us safe.

We’re told that honest civilians should be disarmed, but the first thing we do at the sign of danger is call someone with a gun.

We were told that mandatory background checks would keep crazy people from getting firearms. That claim assumes that the government is always doing its job. The government might disarm a million honest citizens who are no threat to anyone, but that doesn’t stop the damage done from allowing a single criminal to get a gun. We know what happens next.

We saw background checks fail when a crazy man attacked college students in a gun-free zone in Isla Vista, California. Background checks failed when a crazy man attacked a prayer meeting in a gun-free zone at the African Methodist Episcopal Church in Charleston, South Carolina. Background checks failed when the murderer passed his background check despite being a prohibited individual and attacked the First Baptist Church in Sutherland Springs, Texas. Those are the clear examples where we knew the murderer was crazy or criminal before he attacked, and he passed his background check anyway.

The murderer at Parkland, Florida got a gun despite people contacting the FBI and saying the former student wanted to commit mass murder. Most of us recognize that as a significant clue.

If gun control depends on perfection, then it is doomed to fail.

We can cite example after example where the murderer got his firearm without bothering with a background check. The murderer at Sandy Hook Elementary School murdered his mother to take her guns. The murderer at Red Lake, Minnesota murdered his grandfather, a tribal deputy, to take his firearms. The political leftists who tried to kill dozens of Republican legislators at a baseball field in Alexandria, Virginia was a prohibited person who took his guns illegally from his father.

It now takes over a year to get a carry permit in Detroit while criminals get a gun in minutes on the street corner. How will disarming more honest citizens make us safer?

Mass murder shocks us. In contrast, the news media barely reports the hundreds of people who are shot in our failed cities every week. If we’re going to talk about saving lives, then we have to look at the ordinary citizens who are the victims of violent crime every day.

Some politicians said we would be safer if law-abiding good guys were disarmed. Is anyone surprised that their gun control laws left guns in the hands of criminals who break the law for a living? Drug gangs easily smuggle a few ounces of steel, brass, and lead as they smuggle millions of people across the border, and smuggle thousands of tons of drugs each year. Are you surprised that prohibition doesn’t work? Gun prohibition only disarms the law-abiding, and that hasn’t made our cities safer.

I want to clear up a possible misunderstanding. I’m convinced that gun control leaves us at risk. I know you might feel differently and I beg you to hear me out. I think gun control laws put our children in danger, but that isn’t because I’m different than you are; it is because I’ve seen things you might not have seen. I’ve looked into the eyes of the police officer who ran toward the sound of gunfire to save kids. That officer arrived too late. I’ve listened to a victim who was shot by a mass murderer and survived. They both begged us to keep the kids safe until the police arrived. That is exactly what the investigators said after the attack in Parkland, Florida.

It is time we listened.. before it is too late.

‘I looked at the video, and we could have stopped him if someone inside the school had a gun.’

[Hughinn]

The roots of crime and violence are almost entirely cultural. The presence or absence of guns does not alter the nature of culture.

Gun crimes are the exclusive province of criminals with guns. Thinking you can stop gun crime by taking guns away from the law-abiding is as stupid an idea as proposing to take candy from the skinny to prevent obesity.

Outside of the urban cesspools, America has a gun crime rate comparable to Belgium. The urban cesspools are what they are because of cultural rot. They have a decayed social order because the demoncrat party since the administration of LBJ has specialized in recruiting the underprivileged and minorities into its tent by selling them on the idea that they don't have to be responsible for any of their shortcomings. Or misdeeds. Absolved them of all blame and or responsibility. Anything in their life that's wrong is someone else's fault. And provided you elect them (the demoncrats), government can and will make sure you get three hots and a cot

That last part is the real issue at hand.

In these bastions of liberal bliss and progress, huge disparities, inequalities and rot is most highly pronounced. Despite having cheap house servants and interesting restaurants for upper class liberals to enjoy, the income gap and disparities are huge and glaring. This goes for nearly all these places.

Democrats have been in charge of most of these places for the past 50 years. And instead of taking responsibility for the conditions and circumstances of the places that they have run, they blame boogeyman, people who live in the hills, trailer parks and countryside, and have never seen places like Baltimore and Detroit, are somehow to blame for the rot that exists in schools they don't attend and in cities they've never lived in.

It of course is a stupid and totally preposterous position to take. One that no sensible and logical person could possibly think has any basis in reality. But they have used it to deflect the blame off of themselves for the failures in places that they have been in charge of operating, and onto people they deem worthy of scorn and punishment for thier nonconforming ideas to liberal progressive policies.

Joe biden for example has prioritized fighting "white supremecy" and "institutionalized racism". Because joe, like most on the left, blame such notions as being responsible for the failures in places that they have been in charge. This way they don't have to admit they've fucked over the people they promised prosperity to. Because it's suddenly now, someone else's fault, and even better, the people blamed lack the voice to speak out against it. It's a win win for liberal politicians. Everyone they fuck over, everything they steal, was all because of the boogeyman.

It's truly wretched.

But even worse, are the droves of completely irrational, delusional and deceived people that actually buy into that line of bullshit.

It's just confounding