When to take the plunge?

**Rozzyrat** · 04-10-2016, 06:35 PM

Personal info:

43 yos. 5'10" 224. Back training for a year after a shoulder injury. Prior to that, trained hard for about 2 years. Lost most of my gains during the injury, but I've gotten the strength back, but it's been at the expense of my waistline. I have powerlifting aspirations. Current gym PRs of 455 DL, 230 bench, 365 squat and 170 strict press. My true maxes are more, but that gives a ballpark. I started trying to cut back in January from 229 lbs. According to my calipers, I was 25% BF then and I'm 22% BF.

Since late January, I'm on 200mg/week Test Cyp for TRT along with 250iu hCG .

Questions:

Most of the advise on his forum is that it's best to wait for steroids until your BF is down to 15% or so. Does this change for an older lifter? Does it currently on TRT? Does it change if you goals are more performance based rather than bodybuilding/appearance?

The sticky I ready about starting steroids over 35 seems to describe my situation pretty well. I'm looking for a jumpstart to lean out and keep my strength up at the same time. I'm not looking to be crazy shredded or squat 600 in a month - I just want to keep steady strength gains going while leaning out.

I'm not looking to start a cycle immediately. I want to run my current TRT for a bit longer and see how I progress, but at some point, I know I want to run a cycle (or a few depending on how it goes.) Just gathering information.

**oldnsedentary** · 04-18-2016, 02:36 PM

If you can't cut down to 15% on 200 mg a week, then higher doses are not going to help.

If you aren't interested in cutting down to 15% (hard to tell from your post), and you just want to bench press, squat, and deadlift more weight while staying a fattie, then go ahead and cycle.

At 43, watch your hematocrit even on 200 mg a week. It will probably rise.

The concern over high body fat percentage and steroids is that higher body fat means more aromatase and higher conversion of testosterone to estrogen. I do not know how much validity there is to this theory. Lots of fatter gym rats go on steroids.

**oldnsedentary** · 04-18-2016, 02:37 PM

One other concern is injury. At 43, you will be more prone to injury when using steroids to increase your strength. It is just a fact of life. You are not 30. (I'm late forties, so I am not intending any offense here, just stating a fact of life).

**Rozzyrat** · 04-19-2016, 07:40 PM

Originally Posted by oldnsedentary

One other concern is injury. At 43, you will be more prone to injury when using steroids to increase your strength. It is just a fact of life. You are not 30. (I'm late forties, so I am not intending any offense here, just stating a fact of life).

Sound advice. I'm getting new bloods done this week. No offensive taken, at all. I am well aware I've joined the old bastard club

_

Injuries are a concern. Slow and steady is probably my smartest move, but at some point, I may want to try some small add ons.

To clarify, I want to get down to ~15%, absolutely. I want to keep getting stronger while cutting. Right now, I'm heading in the right direction, but it's a slow process. My strength gains are slower because I'm eating less, but I'm afraid to cut calories much more out of fear that I will lose too much strength in the process. My thinking was that I might want to blast some extra T and run some anavar to help muscle mass with a more aggressive calorie deficit or some deca to aid recovery while eating less.

**The Deadlifting Dog** · 04-19-2016, 08:02 PM

I am a 45yr old powerlifter....

Here is my opinion.
If you just started January with 200mg/week, then just ride those gains for the next year at least.
I am on 90mg per week (when not blasting.)
200mg /week is most likely putting you in supra-physiological levels of test.

Definitely cut down to about 15%. It is better for your health.

**Rozzyrat** · 04-19-2016, 09:23 PM

Originally Posted by The Deadlifting Dog

I am a 45yr old powerlifter....

Here is my opinion.
If you just started January with 200mg/week, then just ride those gains for the next year at least.
I am on 90mg per week (when not blasting.)
200mg /week is most likely putting you in supra-physiological levels of test.

Definitely cut down to about 15%. It is better for your health.

Thanks for the feedback, and I think I am convinced to wait a good while longer. I'll find out the levels soon - getting labs done this week.

What are your levels at 90 mg? That seems like pretty low dose.

**Back In Black** · 04-20-2016, 12:52 AM

More isn't always better. 200mg is a really high dose to start, the trick is to use the minimum amount possible to get your test in the correct range and not need an an. It might take you a year or so to get dialled in.

The time you wait to get dialled in you can fine tune your training and diet. FYI, cutting fat slowly is preferred because it will help maintain strength and LBM. I suggest you start a thread in our diet section with your current stats, workout/cardio plan and your current diet with macro's.

**rkaon2012** · 06-15-2016, 01:20 PM

Originally Posted by Rozzyrat

Thanks for the feedback, and I think I am convinced to wait a good while longer. I'll find out the levels soon - getting labs done this week.

What are your levels at 90 mg? That seems like pretty low dose.

I ran a very similar regimen recently. I'm 40, 5'11" 184lbs and starting TRT about 18 months ago. I'm not sure on body fat but i'm pretty lean, my scales average says I'm around 11.5%. I initially started with 100mg a week, which got my levels to around 550-600. I then, in January blasted at 220 per week and my blood results into the 1100s. I did this for about 10 weeks, I saw tremendous results with weight loss and some strength gains. Recovery from training was better when I was in my 20s. I've since backed my dosage to 150mg but have not been tested to see what my blood work reveals.

I know my blood thickens with Test so I donate every 45 days, I would anyone on Test to do the same.

**oldnsedentary** · 06-20-2016, 03:21 PM

Originally Posted by Rozzyrat

What are your levels at 90 mg? That seems like pretty low dose.

My doc has me on 75 (150 mg per 14 days). Rising hematocrit on higher doses.

**oldnsedentary** · 06-20-2016, 03:25 PM

Originally Posted by Rozzyrat

I'm afraid to cut calories much more out of fear that I will lose too much strength in the process.

Want to post up your diet and see if we can't help you out? By diet, I mean what you actually eat and drink.

You will lose a little strength, MAYBE. If this 200 mg a week is your first time on testosterone , you may even gain strength.

Cleaning up your diet is key, and you will feel and look so much better below 15% rather than over 15%. Getting down to 10-12% feels even better and will make you stand out like a sore thumb from the other guys your age.

Plenty of "big" forty somethings running around. Not many lean and muscular ones. I remember my kids asking me why my belly did not look like all of their friends' dads.

**rkaon2012** · 07-08-2016, 10:19 AM

Originally Posted by oldnsedentary

My doc has me on 75 (150 mg per 14 days). Rising hematocrit on higher doses.

I'm curious on what your hematocrit is at. Mine typically measures at 49% no matter what steps I take to lower it. I typically donate blood every 56 days and even after donation my levels remain the same on a clean diet. Interestingly enough my levels were at 48% just before starting TRT. So I often wonder if higher levels of hematocrit are associated to aging in addition to Test usage.